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Post by Iddy on Jun 25, 2021 17:32:42 GMT
I think you are wrong. It won't be epic. We are a nobody with no connection and fight somethink nobody will see, because they are all to busy with solas. And in the end they give us a bad name because they didn't understand what we actually did and only see that we haven't fight against solas or did something wrong.
I'd actually love that. But the game is marketed with the tag line "Dread Wolf Rising", and the short teaser trailers showed artists working on the Solas model, so I'm pretty sure he will be central to the plot. Being a nobody (and mostly remaining one during the game's story, because pretty much all protagonists start as nobodies before their inevitable meteoric rise to glory) would be a very welcome change, but truth be told, whether we are a nobody or a leader in charge of a powerful organization like the Inquisition makes very little gameplay difference - in the end, we will face the bad guy with three companions at our side. Gameplay wise, the Inquisition barely mattered in DAI, and they had to add the war table to at least give a threadbare illusion of being in charge of a powerful faction. All that manpower and resources, and the Inquisitor didn't even bring all companions to the final battle. The Inquisition was part of the story, but barely part of the gameplay, and so a total nobody would practically play in the same way - a team of four doing all jobs the story will provide. But man, I'd love a story where our protagonist did lots of important stuff in the background, totally unrecognized by the world at large, only to watch someone else get all the credit before finding another caravan guard job to pay the rent. To be fair, the Inquisition forces and allies are very present in WPHW.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 25, 2021 22:59:44 GMT
Ah yes, Wicked Pies, Wicked Hearts.
Possibly my favourite of all of Dragon Age's pie-based quests.
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Shep <3 Kaidan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by janalilith on Jun 29, 2021 13:12:55 GMT
My skepticism, or worry is that in my opinion it hasn't been a lot of artwork/sneak peeks until now and I don't know how much they have done based on that. I do not want them to rush this game as we've seen what happened with Anthem. But I also worry that if all I'm seeing in a pillar on a hill with leaves falling around it, and that's the sneak peek you're showing, then I start to wonder if you threw that together at the last minute and that's all you have to show. They showed a bit more concept art and we got that image of solas in the last glimpse of the game we've had - good. The art style was a little on the cartoony side for my tastes but I'm still curious and want to see more. But again, I feel so burned by what happened with the gameplay reveal for Anthem that I'm just hesitant to trust? I know I'm not pre-ordering - my choice and I'm not suggesting anyone else do the same. I just want to see and hear what people think before I buy. I will end this by saying I really do hope they pull this all together and deliver a great, (my preference) single-player experience that I'll want to replay and replay like I've done with the other games.
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Post by cloud9 on Jul 1, 2021 14:26:21 GMT
I just hope they improve combat design, level design, and improve animations. And use a different engine because Frostbite is not made for RPG games.
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Post by bierkrug on Jul 1, 2021 16:47:56 GMT
And use a different engine because Frostbite is not made for RPG games. Haven't there already been reports that DA4 will use Frostbite again?
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Post by cloud9 on Jul 29, 2021 7:34:44 GMT
And use a different engine because Frostbite is not made for RPG games. Haven't there already been reports that DA4 will use Frostbite again? God, I really hope not.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 29, 2021 7:57:08 GMT
And use a different engine because Frostbite is not made for RPG games. Haven't there already been reports that DA4 will use Frostbite again? Yes, they have but with Anthem codes whatever that may mean rather than presumably DAI codes. I've mentioned elsewhere that now we know there was originally going to be a strong multi-player element, likely the Anthem codes were to do with that. However, even though multi-player has now been dropped, I doubt they would shift to a different game engine when they have just about got to grips with Frostbite. It was changing engines that held up development of DAI all those years back, plus including a multi-player element that had not been in either DAO or DA2. So now they are focused on a single-player game, after so many delays and reboots, the last thing they need is to have to grapple with an entirely new engine all over again. Get DA4 out of the door and then if that is a success that is when they can think about using a different engine for the next game.
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Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jul 29, 2021 8:10:55 GMT
I just hope they improve combat design, level design, and improve animations. And use a different engine because Frostbite is not made for RPG games. Umm.. do tell me, what engine is made for RPG game?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 13:31:42 GMT
I just hope they improve combat design, level design, and improve animations. And use a different engine because Frostbite is not made for RPG games. Umm.. do tell me, what engine is made for RPG game? Gee, why do this? You are a fan of a company that has made several. They were expressly made for RPGs. Aurora. Eclipse. Then there's this little thing called RPGMaker. Any more questions? ... Regarding Anthem "codes", they are using their version of FB that was tweaked for Anthem. The tweaks for Anthem are not all MP related, some of them are conversational. They reuse what they have built from for time saving as well as hopefully better results.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 29, 2021 13:45:19 GMT
Inquisition was made with Frostbite, and it was competent enough, so I don't believe that Frostbite is actually the problem, so much as a convenient scapegoat.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 13:54:59 GMT
The problems in Inq that I saw as being part of the FB engine's difficulty to work with -
1. Facial Animations. A problem in every single FB game I have seen so far. More noticeable in some, less than others, but always there is an expression that is Supercanny Valley. Their toolset doesn't accept 3d animation as well as UE, or ??? I dunno man, but DICE can't do better with it either so exactly where does the problem lie?
2. No actual cutscenes. In all previous BW games to DAI, when you were in a cutscene, you knew you were in a cutscene. Camera angle and zoom changes, black bars, realistic camera work focused on the speaker. I have no doubt FB can do this, but BW hasn't done it with the engine. Why exactly?
The rest of the issues with the game are purely design choices. The above 2 are engine-related in some way, especially #1.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 29, 2021 14:09:33 GMT
I don’t think that DAI and MEA didn’t have cutscenes, actually, but I’m also not that versed in the matter to know if there are some huge difference, on the technical side, from their previous games and the recent ones on this.
I do think that Frosbite isn’t as ‘friendly’ in making RPGs compared to to other engines, but it’s also being used as a scapegoat. Hairs and beards could be done in Frostbite much better then what BioWare did so far.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 16:02:45 GMT
They did have cutscenes, but they weren't presented "cinematically" as previous BW games had done.
This isn't a negative for everybody, so YMMV. I preferred that little touch of black bars when Revan and Company had a discussion, or Bastila abused Mission with the Force on Taris. Some people I have heard feel that this is actually immersion breaking, so maybe I am the weird one.
I mean, I am the weird one. But perhaps especially so in this case, I don't know. I don't think so?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 30, 2021 14:50:19 GMT
Hahahahaha. I mean.
Why even have this thread? Literally all we do is be skeptical about Da4 ANYWAY. All anyone has talked abput for yeaes now is how muchnis gonma suck.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 15:20:36 GMT
Well, I certainly am skeptical.
I am also about to play DAI again. Not for the great gaming experience (it's not), but because I am interested in this world and the lore contained by it.
I think this is so I am "caught up" as much as I can be, before this next game releases.
So, I am looking forward to this game that I am very skeptical about. It will either be a meltdown here, which is always fun, or the game will be good. Life is like a box of chocolates.
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Post by Gwydden on Jul 30, 2021 17:23:33 GMT
I can't say I'm particularly optimistic, but I'm not especially pessimistic either. If DA:I looks like it'll be fun, I'll give it a shot; if not, I'll pass on it like I did with ME:A. It's been so long since the DA team has put anything out that I doubt their past work is indicative of what to expect at this point, for better or worse.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 2, 2021 12:12:13 GMT
I can't say I'm particularly optimistic, but I'm not especially pessimistic either. If DA:I looks like it'll be fun, I'll give it a shot; if not, I'll pass on it like I did with ME:A. It's been so long since the DA team has put anything out that I doubt their past work is indicative of what to expect at this point, for better or worse. With the exception of Weekes, Epler, Barrett and 4 more people, the entire Anthem team, or what's left of it, is working on DA4. And while I wouldn't call Anthem indicative of the work I expect done on DA4, it also doesn't fill me with confidence. Frankly, the only person I trust on the entire studio right now, is Christian. And I don't know how long he will put up with that shit, or until some other studio snipes him from Bioware.
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Post by bear on Aug 5, 2021 13:33:14 GMT
I'd be worried if the conclusion to the whole Solas + elves storyline follows the same tired, old, undesirable trope that so much other fantasy involving elves in human-dominated society use: That elves in any fantasy universe, are always meant to be "fade away"/"make way for the humans". I'd much rather see elves (aside from Solas fanatics) reject the Fade and the pining for the ancient past, or have Solas be part of strengthening them as part of life on "solid" (versus Fade) Thedas. I want a fantasy universe where elves aren't the close-to-extinction/destined to "make way for the humans" race.
In terms of what the main game ending should involve instead, I'm hoping that what Solas does to the Fade simply ends up leading to de-facto new game rules for upcoming games (or DLC's) in the series. For example dwarven mages, elves reproducing more (as it is now, I believe if an elf and a human mate, the offspring always become human... so change that up).
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Post by ellanathehamster on Aug 5, 2021 18:25:24 GMT
I can't say I'm particularly optimistic, but I'm not especially pessimistic either. If DA:I looks like it'll be fun, I'll give it a shot; if not, I'll pass on it like I did with ME:A. It's been so long since the DA team has put anything out that I doubt their past work is indicative of what to expect at this point, for better or worse. With the exception of Weekes, Epler, Barrett and 4 more people, the entire Anthem team, or what's left of it, is working on DA4. And while I wouldn't call Anthem indicative of the work I expect done on DA4, it also doesn't fill me with confidence. Frankly, the only person I trust on the entire studio right now, is Christian. And I don't know how long he will put up with that shit, or until some other studio snipes him from Bioware. Why with the exception of Weekes and Epler? They moved to another project? what do you mean?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 5, 2021 20:47:49 GMT
Why with the exception of Weekes and Epler? They moved to another project? what do you mean? During Anthem's crunch, Luke Barrett, Patrick Weekes and John Epler, along with four others, remained in pre-production of DA4, instead of working on Anthem. As per Luke Barrett himself.
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Post by biggydx on Aug 9, 2021 16:09:12 GMT
Why with the exception of Weekes and Epler? They moved to another project? what do you mean? During Anthem's crunch, Luke Barrett, Patrick Weekes and John Epler, along with four others, remained in pre-production of DA4, instead of working on Anthem. As per Luke Barrett himself. I have my own skepticisms of the new titles, but I'm more tempered on this critique. The crew that was DA4 crew that had worked on Anthem were originally supposed to be working on Dragon Age in the first place. It wasnt until BioWare needed them in the 9th hour that they were moved over. Anthems problems are far more attributable to bad planning and concept stagnation than any one development team. And while I find it funny that some people (not necessarily you) were hopeful of what could have been with the Joplin version of DA4, those devs who were working on that version are still involved with the Dragon Age project. As for me, my skepticism of the game lies in how much they're able to finalize before release (as the games been revamped multiple times), as well as how the narrative is going to be cohesive enough to handle so many looming threats (Solas, Qunari Invasion, Evanuris, Titans, Darkspawn)
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 9, 2021 16:51:30 GMT
During Anthem's crunch, Luke Barrett, Patrick Weekes and John Epler, along with four others, remained in pre-production of DA4, instead of working on Anthem. As per Luke Barrett himself. I have my own skepticisms of the new titles, but I'm more tempered on this critique. The crew that was DA4 crew that had worked on Anthem were originally supposed to be working on Dragon Age in the first place. It wasnt until BioWare needed them in the 9th hour that they were moved over. Anthems problems are far more attributable to bad planning and concept stagnation than any one development team. And while I find it funny that some people (not necessarily you) were hopeful of what could have been with the Joplin version of DA4, those devs who were working on that version are still involved with the Dragon Age project. As for me, my skepticism of the game lies in how much they're able to finalize before release (as the games been revamped multiple times), as well as how the narrative is going to be cohesive enough to handle so many looming threats (Solas, Qunari Invasion, Evanuris, Titans, Darkspawn) Like I said, while I don't consider Anthem indicative of the work they can do, I am also not particularly optimistic about DA4, either. If anything, trying to tie up all those loose ends, that you've mentioned, in a single game, would make the pacing feel erratic and the conclusion for most of those threads would feel underwhelming. Either the main plot would have to reach into the 50+ hour mark, most likely 60+ to properly explore all of these things in anything remotely close to resemble gratifying, or be prepared to wait an indefinite amount of time to get the actual plots to most of these questions in DLCs, which may or may not come. And even then, would the DLCs be free or paid? And how much would you be willing to invest in those DLCs, to fix an unsatisfying experience, that you'd already paid $70 at launch for? And even then, would you trust Bioware to deliver for that extra amount of cash, to actually make the game better? I'm looking at the, likely, 26-27 months ahead of us, till the latest that Bioware wants to launch this game and knowing they have nothing to show for, this far, it's not enough time. So my advice is keep expectations to Anthem launch levels.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 9, 2021 18:44:18 GMT
Anthem launch levels? I feel like there's at least one critical difference that can, I guess should, change expectations: another fucking live service game. It doesn't matter how lofty the goal, how puffy the statements, and how much everyone wants to drip honey in our ears; a live service game in and of itself is always going to have some kind of terrible catch.
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Post by biggydx on Aug 9, 2021 19:07:45 GMT
I have my own skepticisms of the new titles, but I'm more tempered on this critique. The crew that was DA4 crew that had worked on Anthem were originally supposed to be working on Dragon Age in the first place. It wasnt until BioWare needed them in the 9th hour that they were moved over. Anthems problems are far more attributable to bad planning and concept stagnation than any one development team. And while I find it funny that some people (not necessarily you) were hopeful of what could have been with the Joplin version of DA4, those devs who were working on that version are still involved with the Dragon Age project. As for me, my skepticism of the game lies in how much they're able to finalize before release (as the games been revamped multiple times), as well as how the narrative is going to be cohesive enough to handle so many looming threats (Solas, Qunari Invasion, Evanuris, Titans, Darkspawn) Like I said, while I don't consider Anthem indicative of the work they can do, I am also not particularly optimistic about DA4, either. If anything, trying to tie up all those loose ends, that you've mentioned, in a single game, would make the pacing feel erratic and the conclusion for most of those threads would feel underwhelming. Either the main plot would have to reach into the 50+ hour mark, most likely 60+ to properly explore all of these things in anything remotely close to resemble gratifying, or be prepared to wait an indefinite amount of time to get the actual plots to most of these questions in DLCs, which may or may not come. And even then, would the DLCs be free or paid? And how much would you be willing to invest in those DLCs, to fix an unsatisfying experience, that you'd already paid $70 at launch for? And even then, would you trust Bioware to deliver for that extra amount of cash, to actually make the game better? I'm looking at the, likely, 26-27 months ahead of us, till the latest that Bioware wants to launch this game and knowing they have nothing to show for, this far, it's not enough time. So my advice is keep expectations to Anthem launch levels. Wasnt the hope that DLC would be larger, premium paid content (instead of small bite, free content)?
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 9, 2021 19:19:12 GMT
Yeah, I don't think anyone really wants "free DLC", not unless freebie horse armor or something really blows their hair back.
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