mousestalker
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ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
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Post by mousestalker on Sept 15, 2020 20:16:34 GMT
I'm holding out hope that he has acted the way he has for Very Good Reasons which will be more fully explained at some future date. What are your views?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 15, 2020 20:19:39 GMT
I picked the last one. I had to.
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 15, 2020 20:29:27 GMT
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 15, 2020 20:31:08 GMT
Can I hide a brick in the pie?
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 15, 2020 20:34:07 GMT
Other. I won't make a decision one way or the other until I have more facts. He has already changed his tune since Trespasser, now saying it is done to save this world rather than bring back the old one. If he is doing it to end the threat of the Blight once and for all, then the world is probably doomed anyway without his action, so he is saving what he can. I need to know that though. Otherwise, if he has just been equivocating like the old trickster he is, then stuff redeeming him, I want to save the world.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 20:35:39 GMT
No one is beyond redemption, if they chose it.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 15, 2020 20:55:24 GMT
I definitely think there’s more going on with Solas’ plan. I very much doubt it’s a straightforward wipe-the-slate-clean-and-restore-the-elves deal.
But that being said, I also think “beyond redemption” is a weird concept to begin with. It centers the person who caused/might cause/will cause a problem rather than... y’know... fixing the problem.
If there had been a way to neutralize the threat posed by Corypheus without killing him, I would have no problem doing that. And he is for sure evil, even prior to getting blighted. But even if someone is down-to-the-core evil, I don’t care what they deserve. “Deserving” is a mental shortcut we use to achieve deterrence and safety for everyone else, which is the thing that I actually care about.
Often, aiming for “justice” (our made-up concept) at least partially aligns with community wellbeing (the thing that actually matters). But chasing after justice as an end to itself means we land off-target on the shit that matters. By fixating on punishment, we’re centering the offender and their feelings. Making sure they feel Bad Enough. But that’s not the actual problem that we want to fix. We want the rest of the community to be a nicer place to live, however that can be achieved.
Now, often that does mean reducing the power the offender has to do harm. So when punishments involve restricting access to power and influence, those make sense. But the main aim isn’t really to punish them, it’s to protect the people in their path.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 15, 2020 21:08:06 GMT
I'm not sure it's as simple as some are making it out to be.
He says himself - and anyone planning to do something horrific is likely to want to provide some kind of justification, so this should be viewed with healthy scepticism - "I am not a monster like Corypheus". He does not want to kill all humans, dwarves, qunari and any other sentient races/species. He wants his people - elves - to be free and to be restored to 'what they were'. That requires the Veil coming down. That will destroy the human world. It is, in his view, collateral damage. It is not the intent of his action.
Redemption doesn't have to mean absolution, does it? Real, heartfelt and selfless motivation doesn't automatically confer forgiveness. Redemption could simply mean..."Yeah, I get it. And here's an arrow in your face."
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Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 21:42:46 GMT
I'm not sure it's as simple as some are making it out to be. He says himself - and anyone planning to do something horrific is likely to want to provide some kind of justification, so this should be viewed with healthy scepticism - "I am not a monster like Corypheus". He does not want to kill all humans, dwarves, qunari and any other sentient races/species. He wants his people - elves - to be free and to be restored to 'what they were'. That requires the Veil coming down. That will destroy the human world. It is, in his view, collateral damage. It is not the intent of his action. Redemption doesn't have to mean absolution, does it? Real, heartfelt and selfless motivation doesn't automatically confer forgiveness. Redemption could simply mean..."Yeah, I get it. And here's an arrow in your face." that is a very interesting point.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 15, 2020 21:49:35 GMT
I'm not sure it's as simple as some are making it out to be. He says himself - and anyone planning to do something horrific is likely to want to provide some kind of justification, so this should be viewed with healthy scepticism - "I am not a monster like Corypheus". He does not want to kill all humans, dwarves, qunari and any other sentient races/species. He wants his people - elves - to be free and to be restored to 'what they were'. That requires the Veil coming down. That will destroy the human world. It is, in his view, collateral damage. It is not the intent of his action. Redemption doesn't have to mean absolution, does it? Real, heartfelt and selfless motivation doesn't automatically confer forgiveness. Redemption could simply mean..."Yeah, I get it. And here's an arrow in your face." I mean, I think this is why “redemption”/“beyond redemption” is such a weird framing. It asks the wrong questions. On the one hand, we have the results of an action. On the other, we have the intention. After the action is complete, the intent doesn’t matter. Only the results. But before the action happens, differing intentions change our strategy for preventing it. It determines what kind of arguments or deterrents would work on that person, to stop them from doing the thing. Because redemption is all tangled up in categorizing what the person is — they either are redeemable or not — it’s forced to have a single answer about whether intentions matter or not. But either answer feels wrong in certain contexts, because neither answer is supposed to be immutable. We’ll have more success if we start by dealing with intent, then later switch to dealing with results. Which is much easier if we focus on solving the problem vs. punishing the offender.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 15, 2020 21:52:29 GMT
I chose other. I believe he will go through with his hocus pocus crap no matter what. He seems dead set on that. Even if he can be redeemed, what do you do with him? Who's the one that has to explain when/if the elf realizes he has to go through with his plan?
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Post by phoray on Sept 15, 2020 21:52:56 GMT
Tevinter Nights finished him for me. He's gotta go.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 15, 2020 21:59:32 GMT
I can understand the creation of the veil, I imagine going against the Evanuris and whatever they were up to wasn't easy. Then Solas wakes up, freaks out, wants to undo what he did. Fair enough, I would freak out too if I were him, and probably would want to undo what I did without much thought about current Thedas at first.
But then it gets complicated. He murders Felassan because Felassan tried to tell him to give current elves a chance. He gives his magical orb to a bizarre looking darkspawn, knowing Cory is different but obviously can't be that powerful. He's wrong, and he's wrong probably because he thinks ancient elves are the best. oh wait no he tells you on the regular they sucked, but then so do the dwarves, current elves, humans, qunari , grey warden, chantry ...basically everything sucks but the fade and spirits. Those are fine, they reflect you Solas says. *cough* He follows Cory around to a peace gathering, warn no one of potential danger because well he's here to get his ball back, tear up the sky and probably kill everyone. He then joins a group of people he cares nothing about and down the line plan on destroying and go on fake quest to save their world. He lies. He lecture them at times... He can romance someone from that group, and make friends, but never give up his plan to destroy their lives. He's the saddest when his ball is smashed.
Then he of course murders his oldest pal Mythal.
His actions drive the Qunari mental. The Inquisition and Qunari clash. Solas managed a "the Qunari are your fault inquisitor". What can you do with someone like that? They traipsing around his eluvian network, something current people knows not much about. Same things when he blames the wardens for being stupid and not knowing what they're doing. Well Solas, why don't you share what you know buddy ? if that's so vital and important surely...no fine. Then he explains to you he's going to well...ruin your world. And that was the plan all along. But Solas helped first because he didn't want suffering for no reason. Coming from the same man who will romance someone whose life he's planning on destroying down the line. And all of this hurts HIM a lot. There's only one thing Solas cares about. And it's Solas. You can't redeem someone like that. Not if he's like this and thousand of years old. At best you take their power away so they stop hurting everyone around.
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Post by xerrai on Sept 15, 2020 22:04:37 GMT
I'm with Gervaise on this one. I want to be able to analyze his motivations--ALL of his motivations--before I cast judgement. That being said, I am leaning toward redeeming him at the moment. That may change by DA4 though.
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 15, 2020 22:06:23 GMT
He deserves to die for creating the veil, let alone what he does going forward.
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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Sept 15, 2020 22:08:19 GMT
Solas keeps making the same mistakes on repeat so I don't care so much about his intentions, the road to hell is paved with them and all that jazz. Maybe Solas is redeemable and maybe not, what I do know is that there are some crimes I find so heinous that they won't receive any absolution from me. My PC is going to be concerned with saving the world and causing the least amount of deaths possible. Also because I like tropes tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeyondRedemption
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mousestalker
Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
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Post by mousestalker on Sept 15, 2020 22:12:42 GMT
Solas keeps making the same mistakes on repeat so I don't care so much about his intentions, the road to hell is paved with them and all that jazz. Maybe Solas is redeemable and maybe not, what I do know is that there are some crimes I find so heinous that they won't receive any absolution from me. My PC is going to be concerned with saving the world and causing the least amount of deaths possible. Also because I like tropes tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeyondRedemptionSpeaking of good intentions, I hope you are aware of where you are bound for linking to That Site.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 15, 2020 22:30:34 GMT
He deserves to die for creating the veil, let alone what he does going forward. We'd need to know a bit more about the pre-Veil situation to make that call, wouldn't we? Although it's a pretty high bar, since dropping the Veil seems like the magical WMD equivalent of starting a global thermonuclear war
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Post by Frost on Sept 15, 2020 22:54:15 GMT
I voted Solas is not beyond redemption, and I am hoping that they give him a redemption arc in DA4 (depending on the pc's choices). Redemption could simply mean..."Yeah, I get it. And here's an arrow in your face." Do you mean that if Solas chose the light-side path (redemption), your pc would shoot him in the face after choosing it?
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Sept 15, 2020 22:57:01 GMT
I voted in character for my canon Inquisitor. She interacted with people using charm, flippancy, and generally less than serious approaches. Yet, when it came to making decisions or judgments, my Inquisitor was always harsh (with some minor hypocrisy involving her leniency on Ranier in her compromised position). She may have been a friend to Solas, but she informs him that she will go to great lengths to ruin his plans.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 22:58:15 GMT
Solas keeps making the same mistakes on repeat so I don't care so much about his intentions, the road to hell is paved with them and all that jazz. Maybe Solas is redeemable and maybe not, what I do know is that there are some crimes I find so heinous that they won't receive any absolution from me. My PC is going to be concerned with saving the world and causing the least amount of deaths possible. Also because I like tropes tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeyondRedemptionmany hours have been wasted there...for research!
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 15, 2020 22:59:30 GMT
He deserves to die for creating the veil, let alone what he does going forward. We'd need to know a bit more about the pre-Veil situation to make that call, wouldn't we? Although it's a pretty high bar, since dropping the Veil seems like the magical WMD equivalent of starting a global thermonuclear war If it does turn out to be Blight related, I’d say that qualifies. We still don’t know what happens when the last archdemon dies, but I have a sneaking suspicion it’s not “blights end forever” or “all the darkspawn chill out and roast marshmallows in the Deep Roads”. If the magisters hadn’t fucked things up by busting through the Veil, Thedas was having a pretty good, pretty blightless run.
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Post by necrowaif on Sept 15, 2020 22:59:46 GMT
What I want to happen and what I believe could happen are two different things. I want to convince Solas to turn away from this destructive path and work to better the lot of the elves across Thedas through means other than genocide. I believe that his mind is absolutely set and that he will need to either be killed or de-powered completely in order to stop him. He deserves to die for creating the veil, let alone what he does going forward. So ... he should have let the Evanuris destroy the world?
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Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 23:05:17 GMT
I see a lot of posts in here saying that their PCs goal isn't going to be about Solas but about saving the world. This is certainly a bit of a...no brainer for me. I do not intend to just *let him* destroy the world (unless of course part of the point of his plan is the world is dying anyways).
But I don't see the two goals as mutually exclusive. Especially in regards to Solas. With as much power as he has gathered, as powerful as he is, I really do not think its just going to be as simple as killing him...or even stopping him. With his power levels this could set up some really juicy philosophical conversation where we are going to have to reason with him and get him to give up his plan. Because there may be no magical mcguffin to save us all this time.
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Post by necrowaif on Sept 15, 2020 23:11:54 GMT
Because there may be no magical mcguffin to save us all this time. I believe he may end up destroying himself. He seeks to use the red lyrium idol, and the power of the Blight is not to be trifled with.
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