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Post by Iakus on Jul 5, 2021 17:03:11 GMT
ME 2 was my first real disappointment from Bioware. RPG mechanics were cut to the bone, and followed up on almost nothing from ME1. It actually felt as much like a soft reboot as Andromeda to me. I understand that. And the railroading, ugh! I trashed a half dozen or so Cerberus bases, but my Shepard jins up with them with barely a word of protest! Even as a sole survivor, usually, Shepard, I do get that we were brought back from the dead. That doesn't justify Cerberus' actions, but, you know, if someone were ever to gain some favour from me, not being dead would definitely do that. And I get it, the whole "I don't control everything" excuse TIM gives us is hardly convincing, but we can play along, to find out what's going on, as this is a unique opportunity for both Shepard and the player. I mean, shit, we could just say "nah, I'm out", but the only game that accommodates that, to my knowledge, is the Mario RPG and it just gives you a game over screen. So other than not making this game, I don't see how else you can go about it. ANd the justifications of Horizon were pathetic. One of the few nice things I'll say about ME3 is that the confrontation with the VS on Mars, while still largely autodialogue, at least made more sense than Horizon! I think that has much more to go with how unreasonably angry the VS is and a lot of things are said in the heat of the moment, that sometimes won't leave much room for discussion. Not that things can't be said, but sometimes, people need some time to process stuff. Could you write the VS to not be so unreasonable? Sure. But I'd argue you exhibit the same distaste for working with Cerberus as the VS does, which tells me that, to a degree, you understand their position and even share it. So I don't think their reaction is that exaggerated. Oh, and the whole "Dirty Dozen in Space" that they marketed the game on proves that NO ONE on the team either read the book or watched the movie. First you find out what needs to be done, THEN you assemble the team to do it! While true, you don't know what you will come across in the SM, because nobody's been on the Collectors' Base. Unlike the Dirty Dozen, where they have intelligence what they are going to need. So Shepard needs to prepare for any case and make it double, so in the event of one specialist's demise, a second will take his place. Which is why some characters are superfluous. Frankly, the first time I played ME2, I wondered for a good long time if the Collectors weren't part of an elaborate plot by Cerberus to concoct an alien threat to give themselves legitimacy, and Shepard was being played. I guess that also shows just how much on the backburner the Reaper threat was put as well. I tried every single permutation of the conversation on Horizon with the VS. The VS is angry, yes, but there isn't a single articulate response Shepard can give. It's all totally cringe. The VS ends up calling Shepard a traitor to his.her face, after everything they had been through (including as I said, trashing a half dozen or so Cerberus bases) COmpare that to what SHepard can say to Garrus or Tali. Stuff like "I don't trust Cerberus either, so I need someone I can depend on watching my back" Shepard: "Ash! thank God you're okay! Listen, our colonies are being hit by aliens called The Collectors. We think they are working with the Reapers. Find Tali, she can confi-" Bioware: "Assuming direct control" Shepard: "-Hey Ash. Long time no see. Wanna join Cerberus, it'll be just like old times." That would be a simple matter of locating an image or schematic of the COllector Base early on. Maybe on Freedom's Progress from Veetor?
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 17:18:49 GMT
I found Arrival to be an excellent DLC - not quite up there with the best of ME2's DLCs but close. Sorry SofaJockey but i have to disagree with you. Shadow Broker is an example of an excellent DLC but Arrival is with a great deal of goodwill disappointing. My main issue with this DLC is Amanda Kenson and the whole twist. I really hate this character and that Shepard gets all the blame after her "betray".
Edit: Also this should have been the much needed Ashley / Kaidan plus a proper introduction of James Vega DLC.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 5, 2021 17:21:26 GMT
Frankly, the first time I played ME2, I wondered for a good long time if the Collectors weren't part of an elaborate plot by Cerberus to concoct an alien threat to give themselves legitimacy, and Shepard was being played. I guess that also shows just how much on the backburner the Reaper threat was put as well. Honestly, the less we had to deal with the Reapers, the better. They are an ill fit for a gameplay mechanic in a TPS. Other than going full Azura's Wrath, I don't know how anyone expected the Reaper War to be handled, unless we switched genres. I tried every single permutation of the conversation on Horizon with the VS. The VS is angry, yes, but there isn't a single articulate response Shepard can give. It's all totally cringe. The VS ends up calling Shepard a traitor to his.her face, after everything they had been through (including as I said, trashing a half dozen or so Cerberus bases) COmpare that to what SHepard can say to Garrus or Tali. Stuff like "I don't trust Cerberus either, so I need someone I can depend on watching my back" Shepard: "Ash! thank God you're okay! Listen, our colonies are being hit by aliens called The Collectors. We think they are working with the Reapers. Find Tali, she can confi-" Bioware: "Assuming direct control" Shepard: "-Hey Ash. Long time no see. Wanna join Cerberus, it'll be just like old times." Well, I get that it could have gone differently, with perhaps a paragon/renegade choice to shut them up, which would end in a kind of "maybe you're right, but I'll still need some time to cool off and think it through" type of settlement between the two, meaning the VS is more agreeable, but not mentally up for joining, yet. Because Bioware didn't want to dedicate the resources, when either character could be dead. A shit settlement still, but a little better than before. That would be a simple matter of locating an image or schematic of the COllector Base early on. Maybe on Freedom's Progress from Veetor? If we found a collector's body, perhaps, with the schematics for the base? Doable.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 5, 2021 18:04:52 GMT
Pinnacle on the other hand just feels like a glorified practice arena. And we have the Armax Arena in Citadel which is essentially the same thing?
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Post by colfoley on Jul 5, 2021 18:13:23 GMT
I found Arrival to be an excellent DLC - not quite up there with the best of ME2's DLCs but close. Sorry SofaJockey but i have to disagree with you. Shadow Broker is an example of an excellent DLC but Arrival is with a great deal of goodwill disappointing. My main issue with this DLC is Amanda Kenson and the whole twist. I really hate this character and that Shepard gets all the blame after her "betray".
Edit: Also this should have been the much needed Ashley / Kaidan plus a proper introduction of James Vega DLC.
would James have been on the strike team?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 5, 2021 18:16:47 GMT
Pinnacle on the other hand just feels like a glorified practice arena. And we have the Armax Arena in Citadel which is essentially the same thing? Indeed though I think the Armax Arena is better given it has moer layoutys t ochoose from and more enemies given tha tyou fight enemies from all over the trilogy in it.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 18:21:26 GMT
would James have been on the strike team? Yeah that´s the idea. Him along with Shepard and Ashley / Kaidan should have been a small rescue team. And Kenson should have killed by some assistant which could spare us from this terrible plot twist.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Jul 5, 2021 18:38:20 GMT
Pinnacle on the other hand just feels like a glorified practice arena. And we have the Armax Arena in Citadel which is essentially the same thing? Yes it is. Pinnacle Station had the misfortune of requiring combat from the game with some of the worst combat and/or shooting mechanics. I do not hate (original) Mass Effect 1 combat, but it can feel like a real slog to get through, particularly in the beginning if the game. Building a practice combat arena for it ended up highlighting some of the issues with some of the combat, shooting, and some squadmates. Some of the missions in Pinnacle Station ranged from laughably easy (all Capture modes), to frustratingly difficult/luck-dependent (Hunt missions, particularly Hunt Volcanic). The reward for beating Pinnacle Station was absolutely worth it (access to most of the best equipment) and the final once-only mission can be somewhat enjoyable, although Shepard staking his/her life for it is incredibly stupid. Armax Arena benefits from ME3 having more polished and varied combat, even if you do not think it is the best combat. That does no mean it does not have its own problems. Both Pinnacle Station and Armax Arena both suffer from not really having any story purpose behind them (no reason to really care). If you already have the best equipment available or maxed out manifest, they are better off being skipped.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 5, 2021 18:40:54 GMT
would James have been on the strike team? Yeah that´s the idea. Him along with Shepard and Ashley / Kaidan should have been a small rescue team. And Kenson should have killed by some assistant which could spare us from this terrible plot twist.
I recall people were seriosuly p*ssed that Ashley/Kaidan were yet again ignored with the Arrival DLC, given that with Hackett's involvement it would have been a perfect DLC for them to make an appearance.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 5, 2021 18:42:35 GMT
would James have been on the strike team? Yeah that´s the idea. Him along with Shepard and Ashley / Kaidan should have been a small rescue team. And Kenson should have killed by some assistant which could spare us from this terrible plot twist.
not sure how that would have worked honestly. I mean Hacket was clear this couldn't be an official mission. Also what terrible plot twist? The indoctrination? Wasn't much of a twist tbh.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 18:49:43 GMT
not sure how that would have worked honestly. I mean Hacket was clear this couldn't be an official mission. Why? You can easy change the dialogue here and still make it an unoffical mission with just three people. Yeah Kenson indoctrination plot twist sucks really bad and i hate it.
Think about it Shepard rescued Kenson and she wants to destroy the portal but surprise she turn bad and don´t want to destroy the portal.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 5, 2021 18:54:38 GMT
would James have been on the strike team? Yeah that´s the idea. Him along with Shepard and Ashley / Kaidan should have been a small rescue team. And Kenson should have killed by some assistant which could spare us from this terrible plot twist.
The assistant betraying the mentor is an even more overused plot twist though.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 5, 2021 18:58:35 GMT
not sure how that would have worked honestly. I mean Hacket was clear this couldn't be an official mission. Why? You can easy change the dialogue here and still make it an unoffical mission with just three people. Yeah Kenson indoctrination plot twist sucks really bad and i hate it.
Think about it Shepard rescued Kenson and she wants to destroy the portal but surprise she turn bad and don´t want to destroy the portal.
Except then it would be an official mission. While the choice to have Shep go Solo still annoys me especially from a gameplay scenario the more I think about it the more I realize that there is some justification for it from a story standpoint, note I said some. A. Hacket needed someone who was not Alliance, so a free agent, and Hackett knew Shepard. B. If anyone could pull it off it would've been Shepard. C. Hacket didn't know anyone else on the crew of the SR-2 especially the more Cerberusy members so no trust was built up there. D. Even if you could work around that then there is no way he could send in anyone related to the Alliance in case things went wrong. I mean the only reason it stunk was it was rather obvious I suppose but it was a Reaper artificat, what did we think was going to happen?
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 19:07:01 GMT
The assistant betraying the mentor is an even more overused plot twist though. Still much better than the Kenson plot which was also overused in the series.
Except then it would be an official mission. Why? Are James and Ashley / Kaidan committed to say the truth? Yes we were working for the Alliance but that´s a secret rescrue mssion. Also Kenson is an Alliance agent you can bet that she doesn´t say this to a batarian.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 5, 2021 19:10:31 GMT
The assistant betraying the mentor is an even more overused plot twist though. Still much better than the Kenson plot which was also overused in the series.
Disagreed on it being worse, but both are bad. Then again the entire Arrival DLC was garbage.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 5, 2021 19:14:34 GMT
No mass effect 2 failed the first and 3rd game I think it's the other way round. ME1 and ME3 failed ME2. After all, it is the best received game in the trilogy. Yea and I have seen many arguments in favor of ME2. A lot of the high points are shit that BioWare simply couldn't fuck up. Like actually having conversations with squad mates and actually having them comment on major events that happened. This is stuff that they literally couldn't do worse even by accident. The combat updates was simply bringing the game in line with what shooters have been capable of since the early 2000's. Seriously Halo 2 had better shooting mechanics then ME1 did and Halo 2 was released in 2004. The Suicide Mission is more a novelty then any real upgrade which has it's own down sides of introducing all these new characters just to potentially kill them off. Which also means that their ability to be a part of the narrative of the next game in any meaningful way is all but eliminated.
From my experiences there are quite a few people who deflect the issues from ME2 onto ME3.I honestly wish I had a dollar for each complaint about ME3 that started or was indirectly caused by ME2. I'd be able to buy a top end gaming PC for myself and my wife.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 19:16:21 GMT
Disagreed on it being worse, but both are bad. Then again the entire Arrival DLC was garbage. Garbage is a bit harsh in my opinion but lets say that i don´t view Arrival as a good DLC. Its a really disappointing DLC after the awesome Shadow Broker DLC.
Same goes for the Omega DLC which had a better overall quality but i hate that this DLC was at the end all for nothing and Aria still sits in the Purgatory club regardless if Shepard liberated Omega or not.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 5, 2021 19:20:46 GMT
Only ME DLC that is garbage is Firewalker.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 19:23:34 GMT
Only ME DLC that is garbage is Firewalker. First i agree Firewalker is terrible (the Hammerhead has always been the worst vehicle in the series) and second i personally would add Pinnacle Station and Genesis 1 & 2.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 5, 2021 19:23:50 GMT
Yea and I have seen many arguments in favor of ME2. A lot of the high points are shit that BioWare simply couldn't fuck up. Like actually having conversations with them and actually having them comment on major events that happened. This is stuff that they literally couldn't do worse even by accident. The combat updates was simply bringing the game in line with what shooters have been capable of since the early 2000's. Seriously Halo 2 had better shooting mechanics then ME1 did and Halo 2 was released in 2004. The Suicide Mission is more a novelty then any real upgrade which has it's own down sides of introducing all these new characters just to potentially kill them off. Which also means that their ability to be a part of the narrative of the next game in any meaningful way is all but eliminated. Saying these things, while also most of these and more can also be applied to ME3 strikes me as hypocritical, at the very least. From my experiences there are quite a few people who deflect the issues from ME2 onto ME3.I honestly wish I had a dollar for each complaint about ME3 that started or was indirectly caused by ME2. I'd be able to buy a top end gaming PC for myself and my wife. Every problem that ME3 faces was caused by ME1 and there's nothing ME2 could have done, that would have mitigated it. ME3 is the game Bioware wanted to make, for a finale to the trilogy. It just wasn't enough.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 5, 2021 19:25:54 GMT
Only ME DLC that is garbage is Firewalker. First i agree Firewalker is terrible (the Hammerhead has always been the worst vehicle in the series) and second i personally would add Pinnacle Station and Genesis 1 & 2. never played Pinnacle and don't count Genesis.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 19:32:19 GMT
Its like the bad DAO DLCs. Just a Copy & Paste DLC if you will.
Both Genesis 1 & 2 are costly DLCs so yeah i would argue that they count.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 5, 2021 19:33:59 GMT
Its like the bad DAO DLCs. Just a Copy & Paste DLC if you will.
Both Genesis 1 & 2 are costly DLCs so yeah i would argue that they count. I know. I've seen video on it to know that it'd be down there just don't feel comfortable ranking it unless I played it.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jul 5, 2021 19:36:59 GMT
I know. I've seen video on it to know that it'd be down there just don't feel comfortable ranking it unless I played it. I assume you don´t have the option to play it? I mean i only played Pinnacle Station after it have been included on the Origin Version of ME 1.
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