Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Dec 16, 2020 22:07:02 GMT
Midway was brought in during season 3. And it was hella complicated. It was actually part of the McKay/Carter Intergalactic Gate Bridge. It involved THIRTY FOUR STARGATES placed out in "dark space" so ships could travel from one to the other. Midway was where the Milky Way "network" ended and the Pegasus one began. It was essentially a workaround for the power requirements to get a stargate to dial an eighth chevron. Midway Station was destroyed in a Wraith attack in season 4, and never rebuilt, so it never played much of a role in the overall story. Yeah, I remember it took a while to get through half of the gate system to the station, you stayed on the station for 24 hours or so in quarantine so you wouldn't bring pathogens across galaxies, and then it took a while to go through the other half of the gate system. I would prefer a midway station instead of a relay, if there HAS to be intergalactic travel other than what we already got with MEA, because the near instantaneous travel that relays offer is just not appealing and trivializes so much. The problem with intergalactic travel of any kind in the Mass Effect universe is the inevitable question of "why has no one else made use of it"? It's already pretty ridiculous that humans are colonizing Andromeda within two generations of stepping foot outside the Sol system. THAT is trivializing matters!
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Post by Grog Muffins on Dec 16, 2020 22:11:40 GMT
Well, we wouldn't be the first ones to remember that about only 1% to 2% of the Milky Way was actually explored. But Peebee said it's "been there, done that" so it MUST be true.
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Post by traks on Dec 16, 2020 22:12:36 GMT
Why would this be such an issue for people? I'm not even voicing support for the idea. Just seems weird that, in a sci-fi fantasy universe that already does multiple things that breaks the laws of physics (like FTL), why would a Relay that allows intergalatic travel be a big no-no? Because then there should be Reapers EVEYWHERE Huh? That problem got solved by Shep one way or the other. The only problem a newly build Mass Relay (blueprints send over via QEC, before you ask) creates is that it opens the door for Andromeda's threats to enter the Milky Way - which surely wouldn't be something the council would tolerate. Maybe that's why a new team gets send to Andromeda in ME5? To check whether it's safe to open a Mass Relay?
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 16, 2020 22:21:50 GMT
Why would this be such an issue for people? I'm not even voicing support for the idea. Just seems weird that, in a sci-fi fantasy universe that already does multiple things that breaks the laws of physics (like FTL), why would a Relay that allows intergalatic travel be a big no-no? Because then there should be Reapers EVEYWHERE That's not a change; the Reapers could have gone everywhere anyway.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 16, 2020 22:26:44 GMT
Why would this be such an issue for people? I'm not even voicing support for the idea. Just seems weird that, in a sci-fi fantasy universe that already does multiple things that breaks the laws of physics (like FTL), why would a Relay that allows intergalatic travel be a big no-no? I think the issue is that the existence of an intergalactic relay would further trivialize the mind bending distance that is between these two galaxies. Space in ME is already very small, I personally am not all that thrilled about that possibility. Imagine, in a hyperbolic way, Ryder and co fighting Kett in Andromeda, they flit over to the MW to get some reinforcements, they all then pop back over to the MW for some tea in the afternoon, afterwards they return to Andromeda for their evening debriefings. I haven't watched Stargate Atlantis in a long time but I don't remember the midway station being introduced in seasons 1 or 2. And even after it was introduced, it was treated as more of a reassuring pat on the back that the Atlantis crew wasn't completely isolated and alone, not a crutch through which they'd get endless waves of reinforcements from the SCG whenever they needed it (or the other way around). Yeah, I could see how that could work against the themes of isolation as well; now that the relays are destroyed.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 16, 2020 22:26:49 GMT
Well, we wouldn't be the first ones to remember that about only 1% to 2% of the Milky Way was actually explored. But Peebee said it's "been there, done that" so it MUST be true. She wasn't actually wrong. As far as she knew at the time, the whole galaxy used to be run by the Protheans. Not quite true, but what is true is that you can maybe find stuff in Andromeda you can't find in the MW, because everything in the MW was constrained by the Reapers.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 16, 2020 22:40:45 GMT
It's like pottery. 10/10 Would art again.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Dec 16, 2020 22:44:57 GMT
Well, we wouldn't be the first ones to remember that about only 1% to 2% of the Milky Way was actually explored. But Peebee said it's "been there, done that" so it MUST be true. She wasn't actually wrong. As far as she knew at the time, the whole galaxy used to be run by the Protheans. Not quite true, but what is true is that you can maybe find stuff in Andromeda you can't find in the MW, because everything in the MW was constrained by the Reapers. Peebee had no way of knowing anything about the Reapers. Liara was the foremost expert on the Protheans and even she knew barely anything. Peebee would have had not concrete reason besides wonderlust to the Nth extreme to get out of the Milky Way. So what if the Protheans had ruled the galaxy? They vanished 50.000 years prior, leaving very little trace. Imagine if the story was different. There are no Reapers and the Protheans just decided to isolate themselves completely from the rest of the galaxy. They live in a very small, isolated corner in that 95%+ unexplored MW. Based on her curiosity and wonderlust, Peebee manages to find them. Rediscovering a civilization that was thought extinct 50.000 year in the past, that would be the discovery of a lifetime (even an Asari one). There could be countless places/ruins/secrets just waiting to be found in the MW. Or do her discoveries count only when there's no breathing alien to tell her anything so she can say "First"? Yes, I have strong opinions on Peebee.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 16, 2020 22:48:01 GMT
She wasn't actually wrong. As far as she knew at the time, the whole galaxy used to be run by the Protheans. Not quite true, but what is true is that you can maybe find stuff in Andromeda you can't find in the MW, because everything in the MW was constrained by the Reapers. Peebee had no way of knowing anything about the Reapers. Liara was the foremost expert on the Protheans and even she knew barely anything. Peebee would have had not concrete reason besides wonderlust to the Nth extreme to get out of the Milky Way. So what if the Protheans had ruled the galaxy? They vanished 50.000 years prior, leaving very little trace. Imagine if the story was different. There are no Reapers and the Protheans just decided to isolate themselves completely from the rest of the galaxy. They live in a very small, isolated corner in that 95%+ unexplored MW. Based on her curiosity and wonderlust, Peebee manages to find them. Rediscovering a civilization that was thought extinct 50.000 year in the past, that would be the discovery of a lifetime (even an Asari one). There could be countless places/ruins/secrets just waiting to be found in the MW. Or do her discoveries count only when there's no breathing alien to tell her anything so she can say "First"? Yes, I have strong opinions on Peebee. She deserves a mining drill through the gut. She is a wanna be scientist no better than Wrex could fix a computer. No way could she ever discover the Protheans without it being by accident IF it was a no Reaper Milky Way Galaxy.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 16, 2020 22:51:05 GMT
Well, we wouldn't be the first ones to remember that about only 1% to 2% of the Milky Way was actually explored. But Peebee said it's "been there, done that" so it MUST be true. She wasn't actually wrong. As far as she knew at the time, the whole galaxy used to be run by the Protheans. Not quite true, but what is true is that you can maybe find stuff in Andromeda you can't find in the MW, because everything in the MW was constrained by the Reapers.Please don't say this could happen. Deus Ex Machina is not always a good thing
To fix all Mass Effects issues they go to (or are in) Andromeda and encounter a species who have the infinity gauntlet and look like geckos: Nope. Sometimes constraints are a good thing.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 16, 2020 23:01:40 GMT
She wasn't actually wrong. As far as she knew at the time, the whole galaxy used to be run by the Protheans. Not quite true, but what is true is that you can maybe find stuff in Andromeda you can't find in the MW, because everything in the MW was constrained by the Reapers. Peebee had no way of knowing anything about the Reapers. Liara was the foremost expert on the Protheans and even she knew barely anything. Peebee would have had not concrete reason besides wonderlust to the Nth extreme to get out of the Milky Way. So what if the Protheans had ruled the galaxy? They vanished 50.000 years prior, leaving very little trace. Imagine if the story was different. There are no Reapers and the Protheans just decided to isolate themselves completely from the rest of the galaxy. They live in a very small, isolated corner in that 95%+ unexplored MW. Based on her curiosity and wonderlust, Peebee manages to find them. Rediscovering a civilization that was thought extinct 50.000 year in the past, that would be the discovery of a lifetime (even an Asari one). There could be countless places/ruins/secrets just waiting to be found in the MW. Or do her discoveries count only when there's no breathing alien to tell her anything so she can say "First"? Yes, I have strong opinions on Peebee. My point was that the MW was constrained. Peebee was wrong about who did it and what the method was, but she was right about that. Wherever you go in the MW, you find the same thing. More Prothean ruins.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 16, 2020 23:04:01 GMT
She wasn't actually wrong. As far as she knew at the time, the whole galaxy used to be run by the Protheans. Not quite true, but what is true is that you can maybe find stuff in Andromeda you can't find in the MW, because everything in the MW was constrained by the Reapers.Please don't say this could happen. Deus Ex Machina is not always a good thing
To fix all Mass Effects issues they go to (or are in) Andromeda and encounter a species who have the infinity gauntlet and look like geckos: Nope. Sometimes constraints are a good thing.
Hey, the writers can put stupid stuff anyplace, if they try hard enough.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 16, 2020 23:06:08 GMT
Please don't say this could happen. Deus Ex Machina is not always a good thing
To fix all Mass Effects issues they go to (or are in) Andromeda and encounter a species who have the infinity gauntlet and look like geckos: Nope. Sometimes constraints are a good thing.
Hey, the writers can put stupid stuff anyplace, if they try hard enough. They used up their allotment of stupidity with most of us.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 16, 2020 23:09:31 GMT
Exactly the point. Constraints can't stop dumb. Hell, dumb constraints cause more dumb -- most of the problems with the MET are caused by ME1's incoherent Reapers.
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Post by bshep on Dec 16, 2020 23:12:40 GMT
Are you sure he is dead? They already advanced the idea of clones with clone shep. It always seemed odd the illusive man would implant himself with reaper tech like that. But implant it in a clone to see what happens, maybe with some control chip, let him be your front so if it falls apart people think its all gone and done. He was hit by a Reaper artifact energy before the founding of Cerberus even happened, something depicted in the ME:Redemption comic. A artifact that rapidly indocrinated anyone who had direct contact with it. Are you sure he is dead? They already advanced the idea of clones with clone shep. It always seemed odd the illusive man would implant himself with reaper tech like that. But implant it in a clone to see what happens, maybe with some control chip, let him be your front so if it falls apart people think its all gone and done. My theory is the TIM Shepard encounters on the Citadel is a clone. The real TIM is hiding in an unknown location. Maybe a 2nd headquarters for Cerberus no one knows about. What the... Lady Insanity's analysis: I like Ashe. She is usually very rational on her analysis and doesn't fall prey to always thinking the worst and some nonsense hypothesis like some people here always like to do it. However i can't agree with her idea about synthesis, even the pathfinders couldn't really be compared to what the reapers wanted to do.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 16, 2020 23:17:37 GMT
Exactly the point. Constraints can't stop dumb. Hell, dumb constraints cause more dumb -- most of the problems with the MET are caused by ME1's incoherent Reapers. Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 16, 2020 23:32:36 GMT
Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers. I'd argue that ME1 Reapers are absolutely unbeatable. They are too strong, too many, too smart. ME2 and ME3 depowering them was the only option Bioware had. But it still leaves their premise an unworkable one.
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Post by Polka Dot on Dec 16, 2020 23:33:28 GMT
There could be countless places/ruins/secrets just waiting to be found in the MW. Or do her discoveries count only when there's no breathing alien to tell her anything so she can say "First"? Sure, there could be - and probably are. Thing is, most of the planets within reasonable reach of an active relay have probably already been explored. I always sort of expected they'd have unmanned deep space probes going out in different directions, dropping comm buoys as they go and sending back whatever data they collect so they can expand the map of the known galaxy. In order to explore farther away from any relays than they already have, they'd still need to organize some sort of deep space expedition that may involve cryo pods and a load of funding. With the Ai, she was guaranteed access to a cluster that no Milky Way species had yet explored.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Dec 16, 2020 23:47:34 GMT
Since it appears the teaser is using red for the canon ending, would Bioware remove the blue and green in the remaster? Why leave them in if red will be the ending for the next game? And how about having t'soni being killed on the beam run by Harbinger. What reason would a player have to do a playthrough like that if the character will show up in the next game? Wouldn't that take away some replay value of the remaster? What answer would gamble have if a new player were to ask him about that? Would his response be intentional? It's a good point you make. However, there are still three possibilities for the next Mass Effect... 1. As you say, Red is the canon ending but the other two endings are just as valid an experience in ME3 however the journey will not continue should you choose them. I find this the hardest one to believe. Because as you said, the fact that Liara is there already invalidates some of the endings so why stop there? 2. Red is the canon ending and both the green and blue endings are invalidated completely due to indoctrination theory. 3. It is 600-1000 years in the future, and the Reapers we see in the trailer are just casualties of the war. While the Reapers are "just gone", there is no mention of how the war ended or how things have changed the galaxy. The Reapers are gone and they will never come back. If this is the way they go, I am so done with Mass Effect.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Dec 16, 2020 23:55:46 GMT
Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers. I'd argue that ME1 Reapers are absolutely unbeatable. They are too strong, too many, too smart. ME2 and ME3 depowering them was the only option Bioware had. But it still leaves their premise an unworkable one. I mean, they still scared the shit out of me in ME2, I definitely continued to feel their looming dread despite them not being as scary as Sovereign anymore. However ME3 was just lol. And Drew's ending I don't think would have been much different, but it would've made a whole lot more sense to the major plot. The reason the story got dumb is because they promoted an awesome character writer in Mac Walters to lead writer of the plot. There is no doubt he is a good character writer, as he is responsible for the love we share for some of our favourite characters. However he struggles write a coherent plot. Although admittedly that is a bit unfair, due to the Mass Effect trilogy never really having any over-arching theme of the Reaper's existence. However that is what made them so badass, their explanations were always just "you're too insignificant to exist let alone explain our motivations" which was epic. Imo, their existence should have just been left unexplained. Or at the absolute max just hinted at to open up sequels.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 17, 2020 0:47:40 GMT
Exactly the point. Constraints can't stop dumb. Hell, dumb constraints cause more dumb -- most of the problems with the MET are caused by ME1's incoherent Reapers. Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers.
That's the thing... I thought Drew's idea was worse than what we got But this is going way OT. We've got other threads for this topic.
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bshep
N5
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Post by bshep on Dec 17, 2020 2:54:00 GMT
Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers.
That's the thing... I thought Drew's idea was worse than what we got But this is going way OT. We've got other threds for this topic. Pretty much. Really tired of this "the grass is always greener on the other side" attitude over Drew that somehow always come back leaking over any number of unrelated discussions.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 3:34:40 GMT
Exactly the point. Constraints can't stop dumb. Hell, dumb constraints cause more dumb -- most of the problems with the MET are caused by ME1's incoherent Reapers. Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers.
I agree with this, the problem wasn't the unknowable reapers of ME1 but that Me and most of ME3 did its best to avoid answering the questions. They didn't have an answer so they punted it down the endings.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
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Iakus
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2020 5:45:30 GMT
Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers.
That's the thing... I thought Drew's idea was worse than what we got But this is going way OT. We've got other threads for this topic. I don't know that his ideas would have turned out better. But I do know that what we did get sucked
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,664
Iakus
21,298
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2020 5:51:29 GMT
Actually I find it the opposite.
Most of the problem is ME2 and ME3 writing...
In ME1 THOSE reapers weren't dumb -they were beyond our understanding. When we lost Drew on the writing staff we got a dumb story and idiotic reapers. I'd argue that ME1 Reapers are absolutely unbeatable. They are too strong, too many, too smart. ME2 and ME3 depowering them was the only option Bioware had. But it still leaves their premise an unworkable one. The Reapers of ME1 were ambush predators. Powerful, but beatable. It was why they relied on a sudden strike on the Citadel so they could decapitate the leadership and seize control of the relay network. Because they COULDN'T take on the whole galaxy in a straight up fight. Also why Sovereign recruited the Heretics to help in the assault on the Citadel. Their absolutely ridiculous numbers and ability to attack from dark space get inner that and rendered their entire original plan pointless
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