ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 17:54:59 GMT
...You're joking right?.... Nope. She does not look old to me. It looks like the difference between trailer CGIs and cut scenes not 600 years or whatever.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 17, 2020 17:55:48 GMT
You mean the figure you're convinced is Peebee? make up your mind bro lol I got duped and I apologized. I will apologize to you again. I am sorry. Especially for the meltdown that followed.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 17, 2020 17:57:43 GMT
...You're joking right?.... Nope. She does not look old to me. It looks like the difference between trailer CGIs and cut scenes not 600 years or whatever. Well as you said, unless BIoware is wholly incompetent, them using a Liara model with face wrinkles is going to tell people she's old as hell. They should absolutely see that response coming, and since you're convinced they hinted at Shepard on purpose...somehow...they clearly showed that Liara was old on purpose. You cannot cherry pick your argument.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 18:04:48 GMT
Nope. She does not look old to me. It looks like the difference between trailer CGIs and cut scenes not 600 years or whatever. Well as you said, unless BIoware is wholly incompetent, them using a Liara model with face wrinkles is going to tell people she's old as hell. They should absolutely see that response coming, and since you're convinced they hinted at Shepard on purpose...somehow...they clearly showed that Liara was old on purpose. You cannot cherry pick your argument. Her face isn't necessarily wrinkled though imo. When she smiles lines generate, like a face tends to do. I've seen more face lines generate on 12 year olds when they smile. And the lines form exactly where those lines normally form when people smile, around the eyes and cheeks. I can see how people see it that way, but I can see her also not being old.
And I am not cherry picking my argument, as I think they intentionally left it vague to get people to think a variety of things from it. I think they left her age vague so people who wanted to see a possible connection with Andromeda would scream its 600 years in the future. I think they did the whole n7 smile scene so people who wanted to see Shepard would see Shepard. They are intentionally misleading people to generate hype. They better deliver or the internet backlash will make the ME3 endings and MEA fiasco look tame.
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Post by traks on Dec 17, 2020 18:05:52 GMT
Ah, got what you mean. I still interpret the scene differently, but there it is, where you see a possible Shepard or assume others might. I can see how people don't even see it is possible from this scene. But the fact is the majority of people responding to the video did. There is a reason for that. Bioware would have to be inept beyond measure not to have seen that coming IMO. And once you realize that is what people are seeing, I just go back at it and look at it in a different light and now I can see why that was all they could see.
Whether he comes back or not, whether they even planned to bring him back or not we probably wont know for much longer. All to generate hype. Which is great except when you don't deliver. Not necessarily with Shepard but with a good enough game. Like the people who are hyped for Shepard, they can roll with no Shepard if the next game rocks. But if its just okay and they didn't get Shepard after being hyped for it, lol the backlash will be insane. Sure. But I think no one should expect Shepard to be back. Especially not because of the N7 logo. BioWare thinks that that logo stands for Mass Effect (not for Shepard), so it'll be included in every trailer from here on until Mass Effect is no more. What I mean by that is, of course the logo was designed for Shep's armor, but got bigger and bigger and outlived him. I mean it was even in the Andromeda reveal on a character looking much like Shepard, even though N7 has no real place to mean anything in Andromeda. Here a recent vid about what some devs think about N7:
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Post by Tonymac on Dec 17, 2020 18:25:01 GMT
I remember the Anthem trailer and seeing ""Everything you are about to see was captured in-game running in real-time." That panned out to be a complete fabrication. The Andromeda official release trailer made me roll my eyes even more. I'm actually glad that I did not purchase either game, because once I saw the actual game play on YouTube I knew I had dodged a dud.
I remember all of the hype for ME3 and its release trailer with "Take Earth Back". I actually (much to my chagrin) pre-ordered ME3 and its Day 1 DLC. Well, that's never going to happen again... Let me just say that ME3 made me no longer a fan of BioWare, to put it mildly.
My point about all of this is simple: BioWare is better at making trailers for games than they are at making games.
I do not see why there is all of this hype. Maybe we are now getting over this "Artistic Integrity" hump and getting through their thick skulls. Even then, there is no guarantee that game number next will be good or even passably decent. I'd like for game number next to be on-par with Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2, but we have to be honest with ourselves about the BioWare Magic.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 18:26:27 GMT
I can see how people don't even see it is possible from this scene. But the fact is the majority of people responding to the video did. There is a reason for that. Bioware would have to be inept beyond measure not to have seen that coming IMO. And once you realize that is what people are seeing, I just go back at it and look at it in a different light and now I can see why that was all they could see.
Whether he comes back or not, whether they even planned to bring him back or not we probably wont know for much longer. All to generate hype. Which is great except when you don't deliver. Not necessarily with Shepard but with a good enough game. Like the people who are hyped for Shepard, they can roll with no Shepard if the next game rocks. But if its just okay and they didn't get Shepard after being hyped for it, lol the backlash will be insane. Sure. But I think no one should expect Shepard to be back. Especially not because of the N7 logo. BioWare thinks that that logo stands for Mass Effect (not for Shepard), so it'll be included in every trailer from here on until Mass Effect is no more. What I mean by that is, of course the logo was designed for Shep's armor, but got bigger and bigger and outlived him. I mean it was even in the Andromeda reveal on a character looking much like Shepard, even though N7 has no real place to mean anything in Andromeda. Here a recent vid about what some devs think about N7:
And when the majority of purchasers are the types who watch that kind of stuff, Bioware can pull that scene off without it screaming Shepard to them. And I do not think they are unaware of that.
I don't expect Shepard back, I put it as possible in that if they see enough people clamoring for it they will find a way. Even then I do not think he would be the protagonist, more like a aged general or something. Heck even if its 600 years in the future it is not hard to say, after the reapers were gone the tech they got off their bodies allowed them to extend life indefinitely. So I don't write it off entirely. Low possibility, but not impossible.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 17, 2020 18:28:56 GMT
Sure. But I think no one should expect Shepard to be back. With what we can discern? Absolutely. With what most people see? I doubt it. Even my close friends are convinced Shepard is back and nothing I tell them can dissuade them. Most people are convinced Shepard is back and they won't even take no for an answer.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 17, 2020 19:04:36 GMT
Sure. But I think no one should expect Shepard to be back. Especially not because of the N7 logo. BioWare thinks that that logo stands for Mass Effect (not for Shepard), so it'll be included in every trailer from here on until Mass Effect is no more. What I mean by that is, of course the logo was designed for Shep's armor, but got bigger and bigger and outlived him. I mean it was even in the Andromeda reveal on a character looking much like Shepard, even though N7 has no real place to mean anything in Andromeda. Here a recent vid about what some devs think about N7:
And when the majority of purchasers are the types who watch that kind of stuff, Bioware can pull that scene off without it screaming Shepard to them. And I do not think they are unaware of that.
I don't expect Shepard back, I put it as possible in that if they see enough people clamoring for it they will find a way. Even then I do not think he would be the protagonist, more like a aged general or something. Heck even if its 600 years in the future it is not hard to say, after the reapers were gone the tech they got off their bodies allowed them to extend life indefinitely. So I don't write it off entirely. Low possibility, but not impossible.
Right, so 80% of the gaming community clamoring for a different ending 9 years ago totally got what they wanted, right? Since as you said, they'll find a way.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 17, 2020 19:06:37 GMT
Sure. But I think no one should expect Shepard to be back. With what we can discern? Absolutely. With what most people see? I doubt it. Even my close friends are convinced Shepard is back and nothing I tell them can dissuade them. Most people are convinced Shepard is back and they won't even take no for an answer. You're sadly not wrong. My buddy watched it and said "oh shit their dragging SHepard out of retirement! Comin to clean up the mess!" Still, don't mean anything...
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 17, 2020 19:10:42 GMT
Her face isn't necessarily wrinkled though imo. When she smiles lines generate, like a face tends to do. I've seen more face lines generate on 12 year olds when they smile. And the lines form exactly where those lines normally form when people smile, around the eyes and cheeks. I can see how people see it that way, but I can see her also not being old. The problem is that you can see the laugh lines are noticeable even before she smiles. Or maybe they wanted to show an N7 because it is ME's de facto symbol. Shepard was on the Citadel, above London, on Earth. Anyone who bothers to stop and think about it will figure out that it's obvious Shepard isn't meant to come back. Their story is over. Not the Milky Way's.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 19:27:08 GMT
Her face isn't necessarily wrinkled though imo. When she smiles lines generate, like a face tends to do. I've seen more face lines generate on 12 year olds when they smile. And the lines form exactly where those lines normally form when people smile, around the eyes and cheeks. I can see how people see it that way, but I can see her also not being old. The problem is that you can see the laugh lines are noticeable even before she smiles. Or maybe they wanted to show an N7 because it is ME's de facto symbol. Shepard was on the Citadel, above London, on Earth. Anyone who bothers to stop and think about it will figure out that it's obvious Shepard isn't meant to come back. Their story is over. Not the Milky Way's.
The problem is we don't see her face until after she piked up the object that caused her to smile, so the smile could have been starting well before we see her face and just became more visible after the lines.
I don't think its anyone who bothers to stop and think about it. I think its people who waste enough time listening to developers, going through videos etc. More casuals, they are apparently seeing Shepard.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 19:28:57 GMT
And when the majority of purchasers are the types who watch that kind of stuff, Bioware can pull that scene off without it screaming Shepard to them. And I do not think they are unaware of that.
I don't expect Shepard back, I put it as possible in that if they see enough people clamoring for it they will find a way. Even then I do not think he would be the protagonist, more like a aged general or something. Heck even if its 600 years in the future it is not hard to say, after the reapers were gone the tech they got off their bodies allowed them to extend life indefinitely. So I don't write it off entirely. Low possibility, but not impossible.
Right, so 80% of the gaming community clamoring for a different ending 9 years ago totally got what they wanted, right? Since as you said, they'll find a way. Team artistic integrity is gone. They already canonized some things such as Liara being alive, which goes against their claims from 9 years ago. And they seem to have received a directive to figure out what the fans want and deliver it.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Dec 17, 2020 19:34:44 GMT
And they seem to have received a directive to figure out what the fans want and deliver it. How ya figure?
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 17, 2020 19:36:57 GMT
Like many think shepard will somehow be back, i did too when i saw it for the first time. The n7 helmet piece could mean something or most likely nothing. N7 is the symbol of mass effect after all, andromeda had teasers like that too with it. Liara smiling could be her remembering shepard and for the hope of a better future (not because it's shepard in the background, most likely it's ryder but we'll see)... I feel something's happening in the milky way. After reading everything from people here and on twitter, it seems they want to connect both galaxies. If we think logically and based on this, this is what they have to do. Michael Gamble sounds excited and i really hope that's his plan but atm i have no excitement.
I read something from the gameinformer article that is interesting:
"At the end of the trilogy, there were three options meant to reflect the three major paths in-game: paragon, paragade, and renegade. Some of these options evolved the world into further tech advancement, while others destroyed the relays and set civilization back. The appearance of the broken relays speak volumes."
Imagine if we are 600 years in the future, and based from Liara's appearance she seems old, and i don't think her wrinkles are for artistic integrity. They have a reason showing her face in this specific frame with the sun pointing at her features and then as we see her wrinkles, and that is to show many years have passed. Her clothes seem a lot different too from what we have seen of her before. Some say she might be a cerberus agent or that she is cerberus (but i really don't think so). Most possible it might indicate of her being a matriarch. The cold environment adds for her to be dressed like that too..
So, what i want to say about the bold part is that the choices from the ot will play a role (don't know about the ending ones though). We could see further advancement in some places, while in others don't. The trailer gives me a feeling of that, the mw is in a kinda difficult situation, communications are dead between them and andromeda. Also gamble said he took inspiration from blade runner 2049. The teaser has a similar feel with the movie (again what is mentioned in the bold parts). In the movie there were big technological advancements (this can be both mw and andromeda, and places turned to wastelands (mw). There's some cloning stuff happening in the movie too, but i don't think they are gonna clone shepard...
I think a post reaper mw where everything i mentioned in the last paragraph are gonna be interesting, at least to me and if they bridge Andromeda along with ryder and crew (no new protagonist crap), then it'll be awesome. They just have to write/execute it good and most of all take their time and have a better management.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Dec 17, 2020 20:15:43 GMT
And they seem to have received a directive to figure out what the fans want and deliver it. How ya figure? A quote from their direct boss at EA. "My goal is to ask questions to ensure that they are thinking about players, they are thinking about the marketplace, they’re thinking about competitors and making sure they really understand what players want.”
To me that says, stop fucking around with your artistic integrity and give the players what they want.
I definitely could be reading too much into it though.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Dec 17, 2020 20:48:17 GMT
"At the end of the trilogy, there were three options meant to reflect the three major paths in-game: paragon, paragade, and renegade. Some of these options evolved the world into further tech advancement, while others destroyed the relays and set civilization back. The appearance of the broken relays speak volumes."I always find this statement funny. GameInformer wants me to believe that Control, the ending with a supercomputer-brained, not understanding of their previous life as an organic, constantly watching, Big Brother Shepard-who's-not-Shepard-anymore is Paragon? Based on the fact it's blue, of course, also based on the fact that Renegade was 90% punch or shoot someone. Also gamble said he took inspiration from blade runner 2049. Didn't he say he took inspiration from it for the music only? I don't have the tweet on hand, sorry.
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Post by redeem on Dec 17, 2020 21:02:55 GMT
Nope. She does not look old to me. It looks like the difference between trailer CGIs and cut scenes not 600 years or whatever. Well as you said, unless BIoware is wholly incompetent, them using a Liara model with face wrinkles is going to tell people she's old as hell. They should absolutely see that response coming, and since you're convinced they hinted at Shepard on purpose...somehow...they clearly showed that Liara was old on purpose. You cannot cherry pick your argument. Yeah, let's just forget all the times she had noticeable smile wrinkles throughout the series as a 106+ year old.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 17, 2020 21:10:32 GMT
" Also gamble said he took inspiration from blade runner 2049. Didn't he say he took inspiration from it for the music only? I don't have the tweet on hand, sorry.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2020 21:15:51 GMT
The Dealers of ME1 were ambush predators. Powerful,but beatable. It was why they relied on a sudden strike on the Citadel so they could decapitate the leadership and seize control of the relay network. Because they COULDN'T take on the whole galaxy in a straight up fight. Also why Sovereign recrutef the Heretics to help in the adsault on the Citadel. Their absolutely ridiculous numbers and ability to attack from dark space get inner that and rendered their entire original plan pointless I agree the the reapers should be massively powerful but few in number.Gives credence that they can't outright win in confrontation.
I would have preferred that the reapers be made out of the dark matter/energy(mass effect fields) stuff.
The last scene in ME1 has Shepard saying that the Reapers were coming "hundreds of them, maybe thousands" What we got instead were hundreds OF thousands.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2020 21:18:40 GMT
Anyone who doesn't understand the symbolism in that scene has broken logic. Anyone who can't understand SHepard cannot be alive at the same time as an old Liara has broken logic. Well, after "Cure for death" "Giant Space Magic Wand" and "AI in your brain turns you into a super soldier that can interface with tech from another galaxy" I don't think logic really applies to anything Mass Effect related anymore...
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Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2020 21:24:34 GMT
Well as you said, unless BIoware is wholly incompetent, them using a Liara model with face wrinkles is going to tell people she's old as hell. They should absolutely see that response coming, and since you're convinced they hinted at Shepard on purpose...somehow...they clearly showed that Liara was old on purpose. You cannot cherry pick your argument. Yeah, let's just forget all the times she had noticeable smile wrinkles throughout the series as a 106+ year old. I think she looked oldER, but not necessarily OLD. Certainly not decrepit.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Dec 17, 2020 21:27:18 GMT
Anyone who can't understand SHepard cannot be alive at the same time as an old Liara has broken logic. Well, after "Cure for death" "Giant Space Magic Wand" and "AI in your brain turns you into a super soldier that can interface with tech from another galaxy" I don't think logic really applies to anything Mass Effect related anymore... When did it even begin? 😆
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Post by Grog Muffins on Dec 17, 2020 21:40:03 GMT
Hmm, looks like another example of vagueness. Since he mentions Blade Runner in a tweet about the score, I took it as him being inspired by the music of Blade Runner 2049, not necessarily the plot or the world.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,298 Likes: 50,662
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,662
Iakus
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2020 22:14:13 GMT
Hmm, looks like another example of vagueness. Since he mentions Blade Runner in a tweet about the score, I took it as him being inspired by the music of Blade Runner 2049, not necessarily the plot or the world. Replicant Shepard confirmed!
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