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Post by Radec on Apr 1, 2021 17:30:15 GMT
Yep, without Karpyshyn there to do most of the heavy lifting and check any of Walters' dumb ideas we end up with utter shlock like the Cerberus Sith Empire, Kai Leng, Pinnochio geth and "yo dawg I heard synthetics might kill you so we got some synthetics to kill you to keep you from being killed by synthetics" ending. Nothing in ME1 or 2 was as bad as any of those things. Also a massive drop in the quality of character writing with lots characters getting recycled or flanderized (e.g Miranda, the VS) or their arcs concluded as "lol I like to drink now". Only a retard or troll would attempt to deny this. I'm expecting a long post that skips it entirely with some random shit thrown in. Or he'll just ignore my post entirely. Probably word salad that looks something like this along with a random copypasta'd wikipedia article as "evidence"
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 1, 2021 18:07:42 GMT
MEA sucks because if you do manage to get past the awful facial animations and childish writing, you're still stuck with forgettable characters and a very boring plot. I never once was able to give two flying shits about the benefactor or the remnant because I was too busy trying to figure out how to make the game end sooner so I could get on with my life. Nobody here is saying MET isn't without its flaws, but the facial animations, overall writing, characters and enticing plot were done in such a way that it was incredibly easy to either forget or forgive the issues. MEA's issues compounded relentlessly and are far too numerous when compared to MET. Maybe its the blessings of a shit rig,(now that I just got a new computer it will be interesting to see it in 4k) but after the patches I did not have the animation issues and even at launch I didn't get enough issues for their to be a problem. Though I value that stuff less than most I guess. The writing and characters are what made it a 5 for me. It was a fun shooter with biotics so I still enjoyed it enough, but for a rpg I want good characters. For me, I did not get that. Apparently a small contingent actually like Ryder and more power to them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2021 20:02:01 GMT
I really do wonder were this hero worship comes from. ME1 and 2 are full of plot and story issues and no one complains about the writers. But suddenly everything is wrong in ME3 and Mac is suddenly the only cause of it. This is how we know you are disingenuous. I, like many others, have admitted to flaws in the MET. Speaking for myself, I despise Hack Walters and have ripped on ME2 Terminator Baby and ME3 endings for almost a damned decade. You have a narrative, and you are married to it. Don't worry, I am almost to the end of ME2, where I can show you how to dominate Insanity with Jack and Tali as squad. After that, you can reflect on your choices.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 1, 2021 22:38:59 GMT
I really do wonder were this hero worship comes from. ME1 and 2 are full of plot and story issues and no one complains about the writers. But suddenly everything is wrong in ME3 and Mac is suddenly the only cause of it. Because Mac Walters was the lead writer of ME3.... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Effect_3Yea and yet no complaining about the stupidity in ME1 and 2 that had Drew writing for it. Like Shepard the human Spectre who can operate outside of law being side lined by Udina. Or the Alliance being able to force Shepard to only scout for Geth base locations. Even though again Shepard is now a Spectre and operates outside of the law and outside of the Alliance's regulatory system as long as it is Council aligned race. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 is a burning garbage dump and yet no complaints about Drew's writing abilities.
It is beyond hypocritical to bitch about Mac's writing while ignoring the massive equally large shit show that is Drew's writing.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 1, 2021 22:40:04 GMT
I really do wonder were this hero worship comes from. ME1 and 2 are full of plot and story issues and no one complains about the writers. But suddenly everything is wrong in ME3 and Mac is suddenly the only cause of it. This is how we know you are disingenuous. I, like many others, have admitted to flaws in the MET. Speaking for myself, I despise Hack Walters and have ripped on ME2 Terminator Baby and ME3 endings for almost a damned decade. You have a narrative, and you are married to it. Don't worry, I am almost to the end of ME2, where I can show you how to dominate Insanity with Jack and Tali as squad. After that, you can reflect on your choices.
And yet I don't see people repeatedly complaining about Drew's shitty writing and bad ideas. However I do see complaints bout Mac's over and over again.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 1, 2021 23:44:33 GMT
Yea and yet no complaining about the stupidity in ME1 and 2 that had Drew writing for it. Like Shepard the human Spectre who can operate outside of law being side lined by Udina. Or the Alliance being able to force Shepard to only scout for Geth base locations. Even though again Shepard is now a Spectre and operates outside of the law and outside of the Alliance's regulatory system as long as it is Council aligned race. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 is a burning garbage dump and yet no complaints about Drew's writing abilities.
It is beyond hypocritical to bitch about Mac's writing while ignoring the massive equally large shit show that is Drew's writing.
Oh, I've plenty to say about ME1 and 2, yet you failed to ask, so that ones on you.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Apr 2, 2021 0:07:56 GMT
Yea and yet no complaining about the stupidity in ME1 and 2 that had Drew writing for it. Like Shepard the human Spectre who can operate outside of law being side lined by Udina. Or the Alliance being able to force Shepard to only scout for Geth base locations. Even though again Shepard is now a Spectre and operates outside of the law and outside of the Alliance's regulatory system as long as it is Council aligned race. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 is a burning garbage dump and yet no complaints about Drew's writing abilities.
It is beyond hypocritical to bitch about Mac's writing while ignoring the massive equally large shit show that is Drew's writing.
Some of that isn't even a flaw, but okay. And on top of that Mac came in for writing in ME2. Mac was actually the lead writer of ME2. But, yeah his stories had flaws. Not nearly as monumental as Macs though.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 0:13:13 GMT
Yea and yet no complaining about the stupidity in ME1 and 2 that had Drew writing for it. Like Shepard the human Spectre who can operate outside of law being side lined by Udina. Or the Alliance being able to force Shepard to only scout for Geth base locations. Even though again Shepard is now a Spectre and operates outside of the law and outside of the Alliance's regulatory system as long as it is Council aligned race. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 is a burning garbage dump and yet no complaints about Drew's writing abilities.
It is beyond hypocritical to bitch about Mac's writing while ignoring the massive equally large shit show that is Drew's writing.
Some of that isn't even a flaw, but okay. And on top of that Mac came in for writing in ME2. Mac was actually the lead writer of ME2. But, yeah his stories had flaws. Not nearly as monumental as Macs though. Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 2, 2021 0:45:29 GMT
MEA sucks because if you do manage to get past the awful facial animations and childish writing, you're still stuck with forgettable characters and a very boring plot. I never once was able to give two flying shits about the benefactor or the remnant because I was too busy trying to figure out how to make the game end sooner so I could get on with my life. Nobody here is saying MET isn't without its flaws, but the facial animations, overall writing, characters and enticing plot were done in such a way that it was incredibly easy to either forget or forgive the issues. MEA's issues compounded relentlessly and are far too numerous when compared to MET. Maybe its the blessings of a shit rig,(now that I just got a new computer it will be interesting to see it in 4k) but after the patches I did not have the animation issues and even at launch I didn't get enough issues for their to be a problem. Though I value that stuff less than most I guess. The writing and characters are what made it a 5 for me. It was a fun shooter with biotics so I still enjoyed it enough, but for a rpg I want good characters. For me, I did not get that. Apparently a small contingent actually like Ryder and more power to them. We’re quite bigger than you think if you all just talk to people.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 2, 2021 1:18:45 GMT
Some of that isn't even a flaw, but okay. And on top of that Mac came in for writing in ME2. Mac was actually the lead writer of ME2. But, yeah his stories had flaws. Not nearly as monumental as Macs though. Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself. I mean he did die I think. They did need some exposition about being lucky that his helmet shielded his brain enough, and the environment on planet X slowed degradation long enough for them to have a chance to save him. As is it just leans way too heavily on its called the Lazarus experiment, get it. You shouldn't ask your players to do the heavy lifting in explaining to themselves how its possible.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 1:55:32 GMT
Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself. I mean he did die I think. They did need some exposition about being lucky that his helmet shielded his brain enough, and the environment on planet X slowed degradation long enough for them to have a chance to save him. As is it just leans way too heavily on its called the Lazarus experiment, get it. You shouldn't ask your players to do the heavy lifting in explaining to themselves how its possible. Even still that wouldn't happen. Armour in Mass Effect isn't designed for orbital deployment, so the helmet protecting the brain wouldn't happen, it'd be turned to mush from the g forces. Then there's the crack in the helmet itself, the flames from orbital entry would have entered it and cooked Shepard's head. So yeah, Bio pulled master class levels of space magic to explain that dumb.
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Post by mtheillusive on Apr 2, 2021 3:18:26 GMT
I mean he did die I think. They did need some exposition about being lucky that his helmet shielded his brain enough, and the environment on planet X slowed degradation long enough for them to have a chance to save him. As is it just leans way too heavily on its called the Lazarus experiment, get it. You shouldn't ask your players to do the heavy lifting in explaining to themselves how its possible. Even still that wouldn't happen. Armour in Mass Effect isn't designed for orbital deployment, so the helmet protecting the brain wouldn't happen, it'd be turned to mush from the g forces. Then there's the crack in the helmet itself, the flames from orbital entry would have entered it and cooked Shepard's head. So yeah, Bio pulled master class levels of space magic to explain that dumb. It makes sense if you had Shepard equipped with 2 Medical Exoskeleton Xs! With a really good Alliance space armor, that medigel works wonders dontcha know!
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 2, 2021 3:53:57 GMT
Yea and yet no complaining about the stupidity in ME1 and 2 that had Drew writing for it. Like Shepard the human Spectre who can operate outside of law being side lined by Udina. Or the Alliance being able to force Shepard to only scout for Geth base locations. Even though again Shepard is now a Spectre and operates outside of the law and outside of the Alliance's regulatory system as long as it is Council aligned race. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 is a burning garbage dump and yet no complaints about Drew's writing abilities.
It is beyond hypocritical to bitch about Mac's writing while ignoring the massive equally large shit show that is Drew's writing.
Oh, I've plenty to say about ME1 and 2, yet you failed to ask, so that ones on you. And yet you were replying to a comment literally claiming removing of Mac wouldn't do anything because his shitty writing has already caused enough damage. Even though Drew's shitty writing has caused damage and then they left BioWare before they could also fuck up the 3rd game. So suddenly I see constant complaint about Mac alone for continuing what he and Drew started with ME1. Following the same writing style with the same peaks and valleys.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 2, 2021 4:09:31 GMT
Yea and yet no complaining about the stupidity in ME1 and 2 that had Drew writing for it. Like Shepard the human Spectre who can operate outside of law being side lined by Udina. Or the Alliance being able to force Shepard to only scout for Geth base locations. Even though again Shepard is now a Spectre and operates outside of the law and outside of the Alliance's regulatory system as long as it is Council aligned race. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 is a burning garbage dump and yet no complaints about Drew's writing abilities.
It is beyond hypocritical to bitch about Mac's writing while ignoring the massive equally large shit show that is Drew's writing.
Some of that isn't even a flaw, but okay. And on top of that Mac came in for writing in ME2. Mac was actually the lead writer of ME2. But, yeah his stories had flaws. Not nearly as monumental as Macs though. That is a flaw. It is contradictory logic that exists for no reason other then drama or to continue the plot/push the plot they want. These are literally the complaints leveled at Mass Effect 3. And yet I don't see people going on endlessly about what a shitty writer Drew is simply because he left BioWare before the 3rd game came out. And the game he left on had a lot of problems. This is basically the "I hate liara and I will spend an hour ranting about how shitty she is" situation just with a real person rather then pixels. It has gone far beyond simple "I'm not a fan" set up and into long rambling rants about how everything Mac does is shitty and some how Drew shits gold bricks or at the least will never be openly criticized anywhere near the level of Mac. In all my time across all forums, social media and what not the single most common thing to see is any issue with ME3 is completely and utterly Mac's fault. Any issue with ME1 or ME2 is just BioWare's fault or some how Mac and Mac only fault.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 2, 2021 4:51:21 GMT
Some of that isn't even a flaw, but okay. And on top of that Mac came in for writing in ME2. Mac was actually the lead writer of ME2. But, yeah his stories had flaws. Not nearly as monumental as Macs though. That is a flaw. It is contradictory logic that exists for no reason other then drama or to continue the plot/push the plot they want. These are literally the complaints leveled at Mass Effect 3. And yet I don't see people going on endlessly about what a shitty writer Drew is simply because he left BioWare before the 3rd game came out. And the game he left on had a lot of problems. This is basically the "I hate liara and I will spend an hour ranting about how shitty she is" situation just with a real person rather then pixels. It has gone far beyond simple "I'm not a fan" set up and into long rambling rants about how everything Mac does is shitty and some how Drew shits gold bricks or at the least will never be openly criticized anywhere near the level of Mac. In all my time across all forums, social media and what not the single most common thing to see is any issue with ME3 is completely and utterly Mac's fault. Any issue with ME1 or ME2 is just BioWare's fault or some how Mac and Mac only fault. It is not a contradiction as in ME1 they expressly state that even though you are a specter you are still a member of the alliance. So yes, they may have you doing alliance shit even if you are a specter, because are still commander Shepard of the alliance. Yes Udina can lock down the Normandy, effectively sidelining you because its a alliance ship, especially since the council who controls the specters wants it as well.
And yes I'm sure some people take mac hate too far, like the hate liara crew. but he is the one that decided to move mass effect into the rule of cool so people are not happy with him. And if you don't like what someone has done before yeah you wont be happy with them on another project you are looking forward to. As for ME3 I have only seen big issues with the ending, most people are happy overall with everything else. And I think it was 2 people who wrote that ending, not sure if mac was one of them or not. And for a lot of people the ending not only wrecked ME3 but wrecked the rest of the series.
Me personally I don't think there are huge flaws in ME1 or 2, ME3 a few flaws but its mainly the ending. I preferred the tone of ME1 over the later games. But ME2 is still a great game.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 5:14:22 GMT
Oh, I've plenty to say about ME1 and 2, yet you failed to ask, so that ones on you. And yet you were replying to a comment literally claiming removing of Mac wouldn't do anything because his shitty writing has already caused enough damage. Even though Drew's shitty writing has caused damage and then they left BioWare before they could also fuck up the 3rd game. So suddenly I see constant complaint about Mac alone for continuing what he and Drew started with ME1. Following the same writing style with the same peaks and valleys. That's because his writing was shitty, between using a plot device, giving Cerberus an army out of nowhere and creating a big plot hole between ME2 and 3.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 5:16:47 GMT
That is a flaw. It is contradictory logic that exists for no reason other then drama or to continue the plot/push the plot they want. These are literally the complaints leveled at Mass Effect 3. And yet I don't see people going on endlessly about what a shitty writer Drew is simply because he left BioWare before the 3rd game came out. And the game he left on had a lot of problems. This is basically the "I hate liara and I will spend an hour ranting about how shitty she is" situation just with a real person rather then pixels. It has gone far beyond simple "I'm not a fan" set up and into long rambling rants about how everything Mac does is shitty and some how Drew shits gold bricks or at the least will never be openly criticized anywhere near the level of Mac. In all my time across all forums, social media and what not the single most common thing to see is any issue with ME3 is completely and utterly Mac's fault. Any issue with ME1 or ME2 is just BioWare's fault or some how Mac and Mac only fault. It is not a contradiction as in ME1 they expressly state that even though you are a specter you are still a member of the alliance. So yes, they may have you doing alliance shit even if you are a specter, because are still commander Shepard of the alliance. Yes Udina can lock down the Normandy, effectively sidelining you because its a alliance ship, especially since the council who controls the specters wants it as well.
And yes I'm sure some people take mac hate too far, like the hate liara crew. but he is the one that decided to move mass effect into the rule of cool so people are not happy with him. And if you don't like what someone has done before yeah you wont be happy with them on another project you are looking forward to. As for ME3 I have only seen big issues with the ending, most people are happy overall with everything else. And I think it was 2 people who wrote that ending, not sure if mac was one of them or not. And for a lot of people the ending not only wrecked ME3 but wrecked the rest of the series.
Me personally I don't think there are huge flaws in ME1 or 2, ME3 a few flaws but its mainly the ending. I preferred the tone of ME1 over the later games. But ME2 is still a great game.
Ironically enough, it was Mac and Hudson who wrote it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2021 6:09:14 GMT
Some of that isn't even a flaw, but okay. And on top of that Mac came in for writing in ME2. Mac was actually the lead writer of ME2. But, yeah his stories had flaws. Not nearly as monumental as Macs though. Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself. To me it reigns supreme as one of the worst story decisions in the game. Escalation of drama only to deflate minutes later was kind of the pattern going on here, and it only got worse with age. That they went this route instead of something simple and straightforward as a coma after floating in space boggles the mind.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 6:27:04 GMT
Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself. To me it reigns supreme as one of the worst story decisions in the game. Escalation of drama only to deflate minutes later was kind of the pattern going on here, and it only got worse with age. That they went this route instead of something simple and straightforward as a coma after floating in space boggles the mind. But which is worse though? That or having TIM being controlled by the Reapers all that time as Starkid stated?
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2021 6:45:17 GMT
To me it reigns supreme as one of the worst story decisions in the game. Escalation of drama only to deflate minutes later was kind of the pattern going on here, and it only got worse with age. That they went this route instead of something simple and straightforward as a coma after floating in space boggles the mind. But which is worse though? That or having TIM being controlled by the Reapers all that time as Starkid stated? It’s hard to say. The thing I hate about Project Lazarus is that any modicum of consistency in the level of tech in the MEU kind of flew out the window now that “resources” can allow someone to simply cheat death even if they were obliterated, whereas TIM is basically given a cosmic idiot ball while he manhandles technology laced with space cooties.
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Post by Phantom on Apr 2, 2021 6:50:14 GMT
But which is worse though? That or having TIM being controlled by the Reapers all that time as Starkid stated? It’s hard to say. The thing I hate about Project Lazarus is that any modicum of consistency in the level of tech in the MEU kind of flew out the window now that “resources” can allow someone to simply cheat death even if they were obliterated, whereas TIM is basically given a cosmic idiot ball while he manhandles technology laced with space cooties. you can use the argument that within the ME3 endings that Details have changed. it can be reasonable with that alone with a soft reboot. Yes I am referring to the Old man with the child scene.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 2, 2021 7:46:56 GMT
To me it reigns supreme as one of the worst story decisions in the game. Escalation of drama only to deflate minutes later was kind of the pattern going on here, and it only got worse with age. That they went this route instead of something simple and straightforward as a coma after floating in space boggles the mind. But which is worse though? That or having TIM being controlled by the Reapers all that time as Starkid stated? Shepard dying easily. TIM being indoctrinated can make sense, both because we don’t know when it started as well as him being independent fitting the lore of indoctrination, where if you want a subject to be more capable they don’t indoctrinate as completely.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 8:05:12 GMT
In all my time across all forums, social media and what not the single most common thing to see is any issue with ME3 is completely and utterly Mac's fault. Any issue with ME1 or ME2 is just BioWare's fault or some how Mac and Mac only fault. Ha! ME2 is the worst written game in the series, and Hack was the lead writer. It gets praise because of the characters, their stories, and the suicide mission; not because it has a solid plot that makes sense in any universe. Get a grip on the history of the series and who did what. Drew wrote the disaster that Revan became, and definitely has had his star fall a fair bit. "all your time" on social media and forums - many of us disagreeing with you have probably been members of gaming forums while you were in diapers, if the information gleanable from your username is relevant. If it isn't relevant, your import still is irrelevant - every person here also uses these things as much as you do.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 8:54:47 GMT
But which is worse though? That or having TIM being controlled by the Reapers all that time as Starkid stated? Shepard dying easily. TIM being indoctrinated can make sense, both because we don’t know when it started as well as him being independent fitting the lore of indoctrination, where if you want a subject to be more capable they don’t indoctrinate as completely. There was a comic about it, I think. If I remember correctly it featured Saren and his brother and it involved a Reaper artifact.
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Hanako Ikezawa
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hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 2, 2021 9:19:28 GMT
Shepard dying easily. TIM being indoctrinated can make sense, both because we don’t know when it started as well as him being independent fitting the lore of indoctrination, where if you want a subject to be more capable they don’t indoctrinate as completely. There was a comic about it, I think. If I remember correctly it featured Saren and his brother and it involved a Reaper artifact. I remember. Though my main point is TIM being indoctrinated slowly over time isn’t really an issue since if we know anything about Reapers it is they are willing to play the long game for their objectives. TIM served them better as he was instead of some mindwiped soldier. Shepard dying a death that would reduce them to mere atoms but somehow brought back not just completely alright but better than ever is far more idiotic than that. Easily the dumbest thing in the entire saga, not even counting the damage beyond it did to the trilogy.
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