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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 9:23:42 GMT
There was a comic about it, I think. If I remember correctly it featured Saren and his brother and it involved a Reaper artifact. I remember. Though my main point is TIM being indoctrinated slowly over time isn’t really an issue since if we know anything about Reapers it is they are willing to play the long game for their objectives. TIM served them better as he was instead of some mindwiped soldier. Shepard dying a death that would reduce them to mere atoms but somehow brought back not just completely alright but better than ever is far more idiotic than that. Easily the dumbest thing in the entire saga, not even counting the damage beyond it did to the trilogy. There's that. But TIM being controlled by the Reapers this whole time not only makes the dumb resurrection of Shepard even more stupider, but it also undermines the Reapers plan in killing Shepard in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 9:40:24 GMT
There was a comic about it, I think. If I remember correctly it featured Saren and his brother and it involved a Reaper artifact. I remember. Though my main point is TIM being indoctrinated slowly over time isn’t really an issue since if we know anything about Reapers it is they are willing to play the long game for their objectives. TIM served them better as he was instead of some mindwiped soldier. Shepard dying a death that would reduce them to mere atoms but somehow brought back not just completely alright but better than ever is far more idiotic than that. Easily the dumbest thing in the entire saga, not even counting the damage beyond it did to the trilogy. Yeah... I got ME2 for free with a GPU upgrade, I think it was a 560ti. Anyways, I started the game and was some resurrected space commander, which struck me as odd and informed me that I needed to play ME1 first. I then played ME1, loved it, played ME2 and also loved it. But god damn the story beats.... Space Jesus and the T1000 would have been a better title.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 2, 2021 12:02:17 GMT
That is a flaw. It is contradictory logic that exists for no reason other then drama or to continue the plot/push the plot they want. These are literally the complaints leveled at Mass Effect 3. And yet I don't see people going on endlessly about what a shitty writer Drew is simply because he left BioWare before the 3rd game came out. And the game he left on had a lot of problems. This is basically the "I hate liara and I will spend an hour ranting about how shitty she is" situation just with a real person rather then pixels. It has gone far beyond simple "I'm not a fan" set up and into long rambling rants about how everything Mac does is shitty and some how Drew shits gold bricks or at the least will never be openly criticized anywhere near the level of Mac. In all my time across all forums, social media and what not the single most common thing to see is any issue with ME3 is completely and utterly Mac's fault. Any issue with ME1 or ME2 is just BioWare's fault or some how Mac and Mac only fault. It is not a contradiction as in ME1 they expressly state that even though you are a specter you are still a member of the alliance. So yes, they may have you doing alliance shit even if you are a specter, because are still commander Shepard of the alliance. Yes Udina can lock down the Normandy, effectively sidelining you because its a alliance ship, especially since the council who controls the specters wants it as well.
And yes I'm sure some people take mac hate too far, like the hate liara crew. but he is the one that decided to move mass effect into the rule of cool so people are not happy with him. And if you don't like what someone has done before yeah you wont be happy with them on another project you are looking forward to. As for ME3 I have only seen big issues with the ending, most people are happy overall with everything else. And I think it was 2 people who wrote that ending, not sure if mac was one of them or not. And for a lot of people the ending not only wrecked ME3 but wrecked the rest of the series.
Me personally I don't think there are huge flaws in ME1 or 2, ME3 a few flaws but its mainly the ending. I preferred the tone of ME1 over the later games. But ME2 is still a great game.
And being beholden to your race's rules and laws is a contradiction to the idea of the spectre's being answerable only to the council and taking part in activity that Council can not be openly found dealing with. This is a massive conflict of interest going on as the Specture would never investigate their own race because their government would tell them to stop or arrest them on made up charges if they poked their head into anything. Udina can lock down the SR-1 and Shepard can walk up and say on his Spectre Authority he is taking the ship and what ever mid level Alliance person would have to unlock the ship for him. Instead the game throws some silly little plot about Anderson sneaking into or punching Udina in the face to unlock the Normandy. And then ME2 has Shepard being sent by the Alliance to look for Geth bases instead of literally anything else a Spectre would be doing.
Mass Effect has always been rule of cool. The fact you openly defend the contradiction in Spectre's having unlimited authority and ability to do what they want but some how are brought to heel by some random representative is 100% rule of cool about the Spectres. The Geth are 100% rule of cool as they are just skynet terminators who get smarter the more there are around them. Including that random and annoying jumping one. Oh hey also remember how we are told over and over again in ME1 is Sovereign reaches the Citadel it is game over. Then Sovereign reaches the Citadel and sits on it for 30 minutes and nothing happens. And magically the Prothean VI on Ilos has a way to delay Sovereign's already stupidly long time to take over the Citadel?
Complaining about the rule of cool in mass effect is like complaining about why the ocean tastes salty when you drink it.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 2, 2021 12:10:42 GMT
Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself. To me it reigns supreme as one of the worst story decisions in the game. Escalation of drama only to deflate minutes later was kind of the pattern going on here, and it only got worse with age. That they went this route instead of something simple and straightforward as a coma after floating in space boggles the mind. I liked the notion of lazarus and Shep getting a second chance at life from a roleplaying perspective. What i didn't like was how they dumped subject on a back burner too quickly, followed by the then attempt to kill Shep again in me3.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 2, 2021 12:24:36 GMT
And yet you were replying to a comment literally claiming removing of Mac wouldn't do anything because his shitty writing has already caused enough damage. Even though Drew's shitty writing has caused damage and then they left BioWare before they could also fuck up the 3rd game. So suddenly I see constant complaint about Mac alone for continuing what he and Drew started with ME1. Following the same writing style with the same peaks and valleys. That's because his writing was shitty, between using a plot device, giving Cerberus an army out of nowhere and creating a big plot hole between ME2 and 3. So you mean the shitty writing that says Sovergein can't take on the galaxy so it has to be sneaky. Cue being taken on by the Allinace 5th Fleet and just sitting there with no problems. Only to be disabled by killing a glorified husk that some how knocks out the Reaper and disables it's defenses allowing Joker to blow it up? How about the plot device that the Prothean VI had to cut life support to all but a handful of scientist and yet in the like 20 minutes it takes us to follow Saren though that door not only has Saren restored power but has repaired any issues and powered up the proto Relay. Or how about the fact the game states that you exit the Relay with a certain amount of drift from the literally thousands of light years you travel. And yet some how the mako makes the most accurate jump ever and lands right next to the mini Relay. The fact the Protheans managed to build a super accurate proto type that was a fraction of the size the Reaper's build. The fact the Ilos VI was able to give Shepard a program that scrambled all Citadel controls which some how the uber advanced space squid couldn't restore from back up in a few seconds. And how fucking stupid that the Reapers would have to utilize the same god dam systems that the rest of the races of the galaxy uses. The fact the races have lived on the Relay for 2,000 years and not realized it is a giant relay. And the fact a dozen Prothean scientist could figure out how to change the Keeper signal dispsite having no food, water or any idea how/were to do that when they also managed to jump with insane accuracy from Iloss to the Citadel.
Oh lets not avoid other points like the entire concept that a Rachni Queen egg was found in tact and wasn't cloned or anything. It simply hatched on it's own and magically had all the memories of it's mother AND was magically able to reproduce asexually. Yet some how the Rachni eggs taken and hatched away from the Queen are mad mindless creatures that even she agrees are to far gone and need to be destroyed. They don't even bother to really try and explain the thing on Ferros just blabber some bit about mental control and then have it repeatedly clone the same Asari over and over again.
Cerberus already had a small army in ME2. How the fuck do you think they managed to build an entire space station that was devoted exclusivity to rebuilding Shepard and then abandoned it so easily and readily? Every Cerberus location we go to in the base and DLC would take a small army of people weeks if not months to build. And yet some how all the intelligence agencies like STG can't seem to find Cerberus and stop them. FFS man they literally rebuild the Normandy. Do you know how many engineer's and technicians let along the ridiculously amount of bullshit paper trails they would need to set up to accomplish this?
Literally the only thing ME3 changes with Cerberus from ME2 is the fact they implant Reaper tech and indoctrinate them into being the perfect ideal solider which allows TIM to take any captured human and near instantly turn them into a fully trained obedient solider.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 2, 2021 13:04:56 GMT
In all my time across all forums, social media and what not the single most common thing to see is any issue with ME3 is completely and utterly Mac's fault. Any issue with ME1 or ME2 is just BioWare's fault or some how Mac and Mac only fault. Ha! ME2 is the worst written game in the series, and Hack was the lead writer. It gets praise because of the characters, their stories, and the suicide mission; not because it has a solid plot that makes sense in any universe. Get a grip on the history of the series and who did what. Drew wrote the disaster that Revan became, and definitely has had his star fall a fair bit. "all your time" on social media and forums - many of us disagreeing with you have probably been members of gaming forums while you were in diapers, if the information gleanable from your username is relevant. If it isn't relevant, your import still is irrelevant - every person here also uses these things as much as you do. Mac and Drew were both lead writers of Mass Effect 1 and 2. Their characters and stories vary from interesting to boring as shit. Most of them are boring and uninteresting. Thane as a Drell is interesting because it is a new race. Thane as a character however is never more deep then a puddle. The whole "I am an assassin and that killed my wife and I developed family issues during my revenge" was really great. When it was called Assassin's Creed 2.
Then there is Jacob. If Jacob was a spice he would be flour. Generic former Alliance solider who just wants to help people without the red tape of the Alliance. But openly hates Cerberus's xenophobic stance. He was abandoned by daddy as a child and grew up resenting him for his abandoning. His big story is how his daddy's old ship was found and when investigating it rather then an emotional reunion with father and son we learn his dad was basically living out a power fantasy using mind altering food to basically turn the women into his own personal sex toys. Enforcing what a useless piece of shit he is and checking several negative black racial stereotype boxes at the same time.
Grunt being a genetically perfect Krogan designed to take on the Gehophage rather then cure it had some interesting potential. But then Grunt just becomes Wrex 2.0.
I can go on but the character development and stories are very mixed. They are all one trait characters at best with only half actually having a decent personal story developed. A single character trait and only half ass development is a corner stone of this series from ME1 to MEA.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2021 15:22:58 GMT
To me it reigns supreme as one of the worst story decisions in the game. Escalation of drama only to deflate minutes later was kind of the pattern going on here, and it only got worse with age. That they went this route instead of something simple and straightforward as a coma after floating in space boggles the mind. I liked the notion of lazarus and Shep getting a second chance at life from a roleplaying perspective. What i didn't like was how they dumped subject on a back burner too quickly, followed by the then attempt to kill Shep again in me3. It felt too out of place for this story, and really, it ended up being entirely irrelevant anyway. It really did function identically to a coma in the end. It would’ve been vastly more impressive if BioWare had the cojones to commit to that scene and actually leave Shepard dead permanently, forcing us to play an entirely new character. While I can’t say I would necessarily have enjoyed this more, it would at least make a great deal more sense than what we got.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 2, 2021 16:20:34 GMT
I liked the notion of lazarus and Shep getting a second chance at life from a roleplaying perspective. What i didn't like was how they dumped subject on a back burner too quickly, followed by the then attempt to kill Shep again in me3. It felt too out of place for this story, and really, it ended up being entirely irrelevant anyway. It really did function identically to a coma in the end. It would’ve been vastly more impressive if BioWare had the cojones to commit to that scene and actually leave Shepard dead permanently, forcing us to play an entirely new character. While I can’t say I would necessarily have enjoyed this more, it would at least make a great deal more sense than what we got. I would have left Shepard dead to be replaced by a new main character especially since Shepard can die again in ME3. Anyways. Instead of killing Shepard at the beginning of ME2, have him/her survive with minor injuries. Over the next couple of years, Shepard recovers the dogtags from the sight of the SR1 wreckage, investigates who/what destroyed the SR1 and to find any clues that can help deal with the reapers. Back on the Citadel, Shepard encounters Miranda. She explains who she works for and want Shepard to help find out who has been abducting colonists. She invites Shepard to a colony to prove what she said. Shepard talks with Anderson who confirms colonist have gone missing. Shepard is upset the Alliance isn't doing anything. She/he decides to work with Cerberus. The Alliance isn't happy about that, but at the same time know something has to be done.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2021 16:31:41 GMT
It felt too out of place for this story, and really, it ended up being entirely irrelevant anyway. It really did function identically to a coma in the end. It would’ve been vastly more impressive if BioWare had the cojones to commit to that scene and actually leave Shepard dead permanently, forcing us to play an entirely new character. While I can’t say I would necessarily have enjoyed this more, it would at least make a great deal more sense than what we got. I would have left Shepard dead to be replaced by a new main character especially since Shepard can die again in ME3. Anyways. Instead of killing Shepard at the beginning of ME2, have him/her survive with minor injuries. Over the next couple of years, Shepard recovers the dogtags from the sight of the SR1 wreckage, investigates who/what destroyed the SR1 and to find any clues that can help deal with the reapers. Back on the Citadel, Shepard encounters Miranda. She explains who she works for and want Shepard to help find out who has been abducting colonists. She invites Shepard to a colony to prove what she said. Shepard talks with Anderson who confirms colonist have gone missing. Shepard is upset the Alliance isn't doing anything. She/he decides to work with Cerberus. The Alliance isn't happy about that, but at the same time know something has to be done. Yeah I wouldn’t kill Shepard off at all, but I think that if you decide to kill a character off in the story, even the main character, you should commit to it unless there’s good precedence that permits you to bring this character back, not just have this super rich organization pour billions out of nowhere to do it.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 2, 2021 17:29:25 GMT
I would have left Shepard dead to be replaced by a new main character especially since Shepard can die again in ME3. Anyways. Instead of killing Shepard at the beginning of ME2, have him/her survive with minor injuries. Over the next couple of years, Shepard recovers the dogtags from the sight of the SR1 wreckage, investigates who/what destroyed the SR1 and to find any clues that can help deal with the reapers. Back on the Citadel, Shepard encounters Miranda. She explains who she works for and want Shepard to help find out who has been abducting colonists. She invites Shepard to a colony to prove what she said. Shepard talks with Anderson who confirms colonist have gone missing. Shepard is upset the Alliance isn't doing anything. She/he decides to work with Cerberus. The Alliance isn't happy about that, but at the same time know something has to be done. Yeah I wouldn’t kill Shepard off at all, but I think that if you decide to kill a character off in the story, even the main character, you should commit to it unless there’s good precedence that permits you to bring this character back, not just have this super rich organization pour billions out of nowhere to do it.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 2, 2021 17:34:02 GMT
That is a flaw. It is contradictory logic that exists for no reason other then drama or to continue the plot/push the plot they want. These are literally the complaints leveled at Mass Effect 3. And yet I don't see people going on endlessly about what a shitty writer Drew is simply because he left BioWare before the 3rd game came out. And the game he left on had a lot of problems. This is basically the "I hate liara and I will spend an hour ranting about how shitty she is" situation just with a real person rather then pixels. It has gone far beyond simple "I'm not a fan" set up and into long rambling rants about how everything Mac does is shitty and some how Drew shits gold bricks or at the least will never be openly criticized anywhere near the level of Mac. In all my time across all forums, social media and what not the single most common thing to see is any issue with ME3 is completely and utterly Mac's fault. Any issue with ME1 or ME2 is just BioWare's fault or some how Mac and Mac only fault. It is not a contradiction as in ME1 they expressly state that even though you are a specter you are still a member of the alliance. So yes, they may have you doing alliance shit even if you are a specter, because are still commander Shepard of the alliance. Yes Udina can lock down the Normandy, effectively sidelining you because its a alliance ship, especially since the council who controls the specters wants it as well.
And yes I'm sure some people take mac hate too far, like the hate liara crew. but he is the one that decided to move mass effect into the rule of cool so people are not happy with him. And if you don't like what someone has done before yeah you wont be happy with them on another project you are looking forward to. As for ME3 I have only seen big issues with the ending, most people are happy overall with everything else. And I think it was 2 people who wrote that ending, not sure if mac was one of them or not. And for a lot of people the ending not only wrecked ME3 but wrecked the rest of the series.
Me personally I don't think there are huge flaws in ME1 or 2, ME3 a few flaws but its mainly the ending. I preferred the tone of ME1 over the later games. But ME2 is still a great game.
The ending was the biggest issue, yes. But I wouldn't say the rest of ME3 was "good". I'd say it was "adequate". There were a number of other issues and inconsistencies people had problems with. But at this point in the trilogy the story is far too disjointed to hope for anything more.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 2, 2021 20:05:12 GMT
I liked the notion of lazarus and Shep getting a second chance at life from a roleplaying perspective. What i didn't like was how they dumped subject on a back burner too quickly, followed by the then attempt to kill Shep again in me3. It felt too out of place for this story, and really, it ended up being entirely irrelevant anyway. It really did function identically to a coma in the end. It would’ve been vastly more impressive if BioWare had the cojones to commit to that scene and actually leave Shepard dead permanently, forcing us to play an entirely new character. While I can’t say I would necessarily have enjoyed this more, it would at least make a great deal more sense than what we got. Or really play with the idea of the ME2/3 Shepard being just a clone or copy or "A VI that just thinks it's Commander Shepard." instead of only having that one conversation in the Cerberus base.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 2, 2021 20:10:40 GMT
I liked the notion of lazarus and Shep getting a second chance at life from a roleplaying perspective. What i didn't like was how they dumped subject on a back burner too quickly, followed by the then attempt to kill Shep again in me3. It felt too out of place for this story, and really, it ended up being entirely irrelevant anyway. It really did function identically to a coma in the end. It would’ve been vastly more impressive if BioWare had the cojones to commit to that scene and actually leave Shepard dead permanently, forcing us to play an entirely new character. While I can’t say I would necessarily have enjoyed this more, it would at least make a great deal more sense than what we got. I don't feel it felt out of place and it worked well as a means of causing a break with the Alliance(which i blame ME3 for undoing). Needed a bit more discussion say with Chakwas.
Don't think a coma woulld have worked, maybe something like being considered braindead after which Cerberus fake his/her death might have. I think killing off Shep permanently would have been a terrible idea.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2021 21:02:04 GMT
It felt too out of place for this story, and really, it ended up being entirely irrelevant anyway. It really did function identically to a coma in the end. It would’ve been vastly more impressive if BioWare had the cojones to commit to that scene and actually leave Shepard dead permanently, forcing us to play an entirely new character. While I can’t say I would necessarily have enjoyed this more, it would at least make a great deal more sense than what we got. I don't feel it felt out of place and it worked well as a means of causing a break with the Alliance(which i blame ME3 for undoing). Needed a bit more discussion say with Chakwas.
Don't think a coma woulld have worked, maybe something like being considered braindead after which Cerberus fake his/her death might have. I think killing off Shep permanently would have been a terrible idea. Putting aside that the game didn’t even allow us to have Shepard even so much as ask about rejoining the Alliance, the real cause of the break between them is the fact that they’re essentially tied up with both the rebuilding of their thinned-out fleet, and the Council’s backslide into retardation with their doubling down of doubting the existence of the reapers after nearly getting wiped out by one. It’s established immediately on the Citadel that even if Shepard wanted to, basically the “good guy” faction is just down for the count for various reasons. So where did this death and resurrection really get us in the end? Seems to me that all it got was a skill reset. Any of the meaningful story and character implications inherent with the kind of voodoo magic Cerberus had to yank out of its ass to resurrect someone whose body was obliterated by being spaced and flung into a planet’s atmosphere got traded up for a lot of one-liner references to it, like “I got better”. I don’t actually agree with killing Shepard at the start of the game. What I’m saying is that killing Shepard in the beginning was cheap drama that was quickly deflated. If you’re going to kill a character, just do it and make the drama stick. Otherwise, don’t bother. Seems to me like ME2 itself established that Shepard’s relationship with Cerberus was coming to an end at some point. Even if you attempted to be pro-Cerberus, the writing of the game always made it seem like you were making a pact with the devil to get the job done. Just look at Project Overlord, where David’s put into a weird sadistic cyber-crucifixion machine with his eyes stuck open instead of lying in a nice hospital bed or something. The game is overt with its anti-Cerberus sentiment, even if Shepard can pretend otherwise in dialogue. Just look at the reaction of everyone if you give the Collector base to Cerberus. Everyone thinks it’s a bad idea, even the Cerberus lackeys.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2021 21:42:12 GMT
It is not a contradiction as in ME1 they expressly state that even though you are a specter you are still a member of the alliance. So yes, they may have you doing alliance shit even if you are a specter, because are still commander Shepard of the alliance. Yes Udina can lock down the Normandy, effectively sidelining you because its a alliance ship, especially since the council who controls the specters wants it as well.
And yes I'm sure some people take mac hate too far, like the hate liara crew. but he is the one that decided to move mass effect into the rule of cool so people are not happy with him. And if you don't like what someone has done before yeah you wont be happy with them on another project you are looking forward to. As for ME3 I have only seen big issues with the ending, most people are happy overall with everything else. And I think it was 2 people who wrote that ending, not sure if mac was one of them or not. And for a lot of people the ending not only wrecked ME3 but wrecked the rest of the series.
Me personally I don't think there are huge flaws in ME1 or 2, ME3 a few flaws but its mainly the ending. I preferred the tone of ME1 over the later games. But ME2 is still a great game.
The ending was the biggest issue, yes. But I wouldn't say the rest of ME3 was "good". I'd say it was "adequate". There were a number of other issues and inconsistencies people had problems with. But at this point in the trilogy the story is far too disjointed to hope for anything more. This remaster thing should have really been a total rewrite in order to fix the plot holes and mistakes in the MET. Sure, it would piss off those who liked it as it was, but the MET really needs a rewrite fix for the plot.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 2, 2021 22:20:43 GMT
It felt too out of place for this story, and really, it ended up being entirely irrelevant anyway. It really did function identically to a coma in the end. It would’ve been vastly more impressive if BioWare had the cojones to commit to that scene and actually leave Shepard dead permanently, forcing us to play an entirely new character. While I can’t say I would necessarily have enjoyed this more, it would at least make a great deal more sense than what we got. I don't feel it felt out of place and it worked well as a means of causing a break with the Alliance(which i blame ME3 for undoing). Needed a bit more discussion say with Chakwas.
Don't think a coma woulld have worked, maybe something like being considered braindead after which Cerberus fake his/her death might have. I think killing off Shep permanently would have been a terrible idea. You don't need death or a coma. You just need two years of lack of evidence of the Reapers. I mean, imagine, Shepard and crew spend all this time searching the galaxy for evidence of Reaper activity, historical evidence, ways to fight them, etc, and get...nothing! Shepard squanders Spectre authority, the goodwill he/she gained from bringing down Saren, and is in real danger of turning the Council and/or the Alliance into a laughingstock over a phantom threat. "Maybe Sovereign really was some kind of geth superdreadnaught" Shep basically becomes this: Funding dries up, crew gets recalled and reassigned. Everyone sorta drifts away. Shep doesn't get recalled largely because everyone just wants the "hero of the Citadel" to just GO AWAY. so the Normandy gets reassigned to the Terminus to be out of sight, and hopefully get killed by pirates or someting. Until a battered Normandy operating on a skeleton crew pulls into Omega, and gets met by Jacob and Miranda with an offer Shepard really can't refuse...
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 3, 2021 1:35:18 GMT
It is not a contradiction as in ME1 they expressly state that even though you are a specter you are still a member of the alliance. So yes, they may have you doing alliance shit even if you are a specter, because are still commander Shepard of the alliance. Yes Udina can lock down the Normandy, effectively sidelining you because its a alliance ship, especially since the council who controls the specters wants it as well.
And yes I'm sure some people take mac hate too far, like the hate liara crew. but he is the one that decided to move mass effect into the rule of cool so people are not happy with him. And if you don't like what someone has done before yeah you wont be happy with them on another project you are looking forward to. As for ME3 I have only seen big issues with the ending, most people are happy overall with everything else. And I think it was 2 people who wrote that ending, not sure if mac was one of them or not. And for a lot of people the ending not only wrecked ME3 but wrecked the rest of the series.
Me personally I don't think there are huge flaws in ME1 or 2, ME3 a few flaws but its mainly the ending. I preferred the tone of ME1 over the later games. But ME2 is still a great game.
And being beholden to your race's rules and laws is a contradiction to the idea of the spectre's being answerable only to the council and taking part in activity that Council can not be openly found dealing with. This is a massive conflict of interest going on as the Specture would never investigate their own race because their government would tell them to stop or arrest them on made up charges if they poked their head into anything. Udina can lock down the SR-1 and Shepard can walk up and say on his Spectre Authority he is taking the ship and what ever mid level Alliance person would have to unlock the ship for him. Instead the game throws some silly little plot about Anderson sneaking into or punching Udina in the face to unlock the Normandy. And then ME2 has Shepard being sent by the Alliance to look for Geth bases instead of literally anything else a Spectre would be doing.
Mass Effect has always been rule of cool. The fact you openly defend the contradiction in Spectre's having unlimited authority and ability to do what they want but some how are brought to heel by some random representative is 100% rule of cool about the Spectres. The Geth are 100% rule of cool as they are just skynet terminators who get smarter the more there are around them. Including that random and annoying jumping one. Oh hey also remember how we are told over and over again in ME1 is Sovereign reaches the Citadel it is game over. Then Sovereign reaches the Citadel and sits on it for 30 minutes and nothing happens. And magically the Prothean VI on Ilos has a way to delay Sovereign's already stupidly long time to take over the Citadel?
Complaining about the rule of cool in mass effect is like complaining about why the ocean tastes salty when you drink it.
Shepard may have the authority of a specter but he remains an alliance commander. Is it within his powers to ignore alliance orders, sure but he wouldn't be commander Shepard if he did. Could and would are different things. As for udina stopping the ship, again that was coming from the council. Specters still follow orders and are subordinate to the council. So yeah their authority would trump a specter showing up and flashing a badge. And if you don't see a massive difference in tone from rule of cool from ME1 to ME2 you are lying to yourself.
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Apr 3, 2021 1:37:40 GMT
It is not a contradiction as in ME1 they expressly state that even though you are a specter you are still a member of the alliance. So yes, they may have you doing alliance shit even if you are a specter, because are still commander Shepard of the alliance. Yes Udina can lock down the Normandy, effectively sidelining you because its a alliance ship, especially since the council who controls the specters wants it as well.
And yes I'm sure some people take mac hate too far, like the hate liara crew. but he is the one that decided to move mass effect into the rule of cool so people are not happy with him. And if you don't like what someone has done before yeah you wont be happy with them on another project you are looking forward to. As for ME3 I have only seen big issues with the ending, most people are happy overall with everything else. And I think it was 2 people who wrote that ending, not sure if mac was one of them or not. And for a lot of people the ending not only wrecked ME3 but wrecked the rest of the series.
Me personally I don't think there are huge flaws in ME1 or 2, ME3 a few flaws but its mainly the ending. I preferred the tone of ME1 over the later games. But ME2 is still a great game.
The ending was the biggest issue, yes. But I wouldn't say the rest of ME3 was "good". I'd say it was "adequate". There were a number of other issues and inconsistencies people had problems with. But at this point in the trilogy the story is far too disjointed to hope for anything more. Fair enough, I think there were flaws in every game but for me very little was large enough to interrupt the entertainment value of the games.
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Post by huntress on Apr 3, 2021 3:30:31 GMT
I still dislike the ending (extended cut)
I have accepted that BioWare won't try again to improve the endings I am only interested in a continuation of my canon playthrough
I am still interested in future games (without a remake of the trilogy) In every game I choose destroy
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 3, 2021 3:43:39 GMT
I think the endings were bad. I think Indoctrination Theory is bad.
I think that most people were going to be disappointed with the endings, because the ride with Shepard was a great one, and it's hard to end that satisfactorily. Especially since a doomsday weapon like the Crucible really needed some buildup (I can accept the Protheans, it took the Reapers centuries to harvest, but humanity needed some head start)
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 3, 2021 5:18:34 GMT
I don't feel it felt out of place and it worked well as a means of causing a break with the Alliance(which i blame ME3 for undoing). Needed a bit more discussion say with Chakwas.
Don't think a coma woulld have worked, maybe something like being considered braindead after which Cerberus fake his/her death might have. I think killing off Shep permanently would have been a terrible idea. You don't need death or a coma. You just need two years of lack of evidence of the Reapers. I mean, imagine, Shepard and crew spend all this time searching the galaxy for evidence of Reaper activity, historical evidence, ways to fight them, etc, and get...nothing! Shepard squanders Spectre authority, the goodwill he/she gained from bringing down Saren, and is in real danger of turning the Council and/or the Alliance into a laughingstock over a phantom threat. "Maybe Sovereign really was some kind of geth superdreadnaught" Shep basically becomes this: Funding dries up, crew gets recalled and reassigned. Everyone sorta drifts away. Shep doesn't get recalled largely because everyone just wants the "hero of the Citadel" to just GO AWAY. so the Normandy gets reassigned to the Terminus to be out of sight, and hopefully get killed by pirates or someting. Until a battered Normandy operating on a skeleton crew pulls into Omega, and gets met by Jacob and Miranda with an offer Shepard really can't refuse... The problem is that this still hinges on the plague of stupidity sweeping over the galaxy, which is part of what makes this such an aggravating aspect of the story. Sovereign is basically a smorgasbord of evidence. Even if the Council were to officially declare this just another geth ship, this means the geth are a substantially more meaningful threat to Council space than previously believed, but they still do nothing. I think maybe just skipping all this wave of incredulity altogether would be preferable. We can’t just have all these people be so stupid all the time, because it kind of strains belief that these people can govern a galaxy. Maybe just have them “officially” declare something one thing, but then secretly acknowledge it so there’s no panic.
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Post by helios969 on Apr 3, 2021 7:55:25 GMT
Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself. Even before that the exposure to vacuum and subsequent freezing would have rendered Shepard unrevivable. The freezing would result in every cell and surrounding ultrastructure to be shredded by the formation of ice crystals. But I've long since learned to shut off the science part of my brain when watching/reading/playing SciFi (not just ME) because it's all bad science to one degree or another. There's very little well written science fiction with respect to science.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 3, 2021 9:04:07 GMT
Hell, the opening of ME2 shouldn't have happened since on one can survive impacting onto a planets surface from orbit. You'd be charcoaled before you even hit the ground, and that's not accounting the impact on the ground itself. Even before that the exposure to vacuum and subsequent freezing would have rendered Shepard unrevivable. The freezing would result in every cell and surrounding ultrastructure to be shredded by the formation of ice crystals. But I've long since learned to shut off the science part of my brain when watching/reading/playing SciFi (not just ME) because it's all bad science to one degree or another. There's very little well written science fiction with respect to science. Not to mention the amounts of radiation in the area...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 3, 2021 9:19:26 GMT
Shepard would have been reduced to atoms miles before even hitting the planet. No armor for Legion to fix the hole in his chest. No armor for Liara to keep. No dog tags for Hackett to recover. No helmet to keep. And certainly no body to revive.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 3, 2021 9:35:26 GMT
I still dislike the ending (extended cut) I have accepted that BioWare won't try again to improve the endings I am only interested in a continuation of my canon playthrough I am still interested in future games (without a remake of the trilogy) In every game I choose destroy I still despise the ending of ME3. I got my canon closure via playing it with Mods that removed garbage like star brat. After the failure of Andromeda i've come round to the notion of them doing some sort of continuation, though i still have sensitivity to how it is handled.
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