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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 27, 2021 14:10:57 GMT
So the near total genocide of an entire race combined with an aggressive and hostile isolationist stance isn't foreshadowing? Sort of, but it's a grey area because the Geth chased the Quarians off and stopped. Not exactly the unchecked aggression that was inevitable. Though you can argue over the timescale the Catalyst was supposed to be studying, eventually that status quo would have come to an end.
The Geth reduced the Quarians from a population of several billion across multiple worlds to a few hundred million. Wiping out 95% of the Quarian population. This is well beyond any reasonable argument for self defense. I did the math once. If the same level of genocide was applied to the human race on earth in the real world you could lay the human skulls end to end and wrap around the entire planet like 19 times. If you stacked them on top of teach other they would reach 1.9 times to the moon. Meaning you could almost literally climb to the moon and back without touching the same skull twice. WW2 Germany lost around 20% of it's population by the end of the war. This is including military, civilian AND holocaust victims compared to a pre war population census.
To reach a 95% morality rate of an entire species in like 2 years means the Geth bombed and attacks hospitals, schools, retirement homes. Legion very much so shows you the Quarians being ass hats but doesn't show the Geth advancing like Terminators shooting fleeing Quarians in the back. Putting the barrel of their gun against a cowering and crying child and pulling the trigger.
They only stopped because they were unsure of the ramification of total genocide. This isn't getting a conscious and suddenly thinking the Quarians were beat enough. They were simply unsure of what would happen.
In a galaxy without Reapers existing the Quarians taking another crack at the Geth like they did would result in the Geth coming to the conclusion they are no longer safe as long as organic life exists. It doesn't matter who wins as even a few Geth programs that might survive a purge and flee would still be capable of rebuilding the Geth. Any new synthetic life learning that the Geth were purged for daring to exist would also shape conclusions about how safe they are around organic life.
I mean seriously in game EDI multiple time explicitly states that she has to pretend to be a simple VI simply to avoid being killed by people. First at the Alliance Dry Dock on Earth. Pretending to be a VI that only responds to Joker's voice. And then on the Citadel she has to pretend to be Joker's personal disability assistance VI. If you actually examine EDI's story it start to really smell of stockholm syndrome.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 27, 2021 14:35:45 GMT
The Geth reduced the Quarians from a population of several billion across multiple worlds to a few hundred million. Wiping out 95% of the Quarian population. This is well beyond any reasonable argument for self defense. I've always cut the geth some slack on that one. They achieve sapience only to find themselves in the middle of an all-out war of extermination. On the evidence, it's not crazy to conclude that genocide is just what happens when two sapient species share a planet, although of course it is a small sample set. Geth think faster than organics, but I can see how they might not come up with a great system of ethics on-the-fly. The quarians had millennia to work out a system of morality, and they botched the problem anyway. Although for purposes of this topic, I don't think this matters. What happened on Rannoch certainly can be interpreted as synthetics' innate hostility to organic life. Tali interprets it this way. She may be wrong, but she isn't crazy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 3:48:59 GMT
While I understand the idea of giving a newly sapient AI a bit of slack, I think the Terminator reference should not be dismissed and the numbers of Quarians killed is significant. If the Quarians went from literally billions to a few hundred million … the percent of children, adolescents, the old and infirm would literally be in the billions. Parts of the Quarian population that posed little or no threat to the Geth Consensus.
And unlike individual Quarians, the Geth are a consensus ... when Shepards asks Legion who he is, Legion answers, we are Geth ... there is no individual. Eventually, the Geth do become individuals and sapient, unique AI outside the consensus ... but that did not exist in the Morning War. At that time, there was only the consensus.
So the Geth Consensus murdered literally billions of helpless and non-threat Quarians. The Quarians, destroying a mobile platform, are merely destroying a mobile platform. The Geth Consensus is, during the Morning War ... software that lives on a server, downloaded to mobile platforms to perform tasks.
As a singular Consensus, it and it alone is responsible for the mass murder it perpetrated on the Quarians. A significant part of the Quarian population objected to attacking the Geth ... in the end, those in control of the Quarian government chose to attack ... but unlike the Geth Consensus, there was not a singular Quarian "hive mind" that was responsible for that decision.
Legion did not say the Geth spared those Quarians that tried to defend the Geth ... Legion said the Geth stopped the attack because they were unsure of the consequences of wiping the Quarians out completely. Given the Quarians had pretty much wiped out the part of their history where there was a split in Quarian society on what to do with the Geth ... there is a real possibility the Quarian survivors of the Morning War did not include Quarians sympathizing with the Geth … that the Geth wiped those sympathetic Quarians out. Or the wiping out of billions of children and senior citizens made those initially sympathetic to the Geth harden their hearts toward the Consensus and wished to forget that they once defended the Geth.
Edit add: This is not saying the Geth of the Morning War were the same as the Geth (and Legion) that Shepard encountered. By then, the Geth literally had hundreds of years to study organics and for the Consensus to develop its own sense of morality, right and wrong, to value organic life as well as its own AI existence. So an infant Consensus might be quite different than a more fully developed Consensus that reached out to Shepard via Legion.
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Post by Radec on Feb 28, 2021 13:50:36 GMT
It's heavily implied by Legion in ME2 that the geth used WMDs against the quarians (chemical, radiological, potentially bioweapons) to render the planet uninhabitable, which would make sense for a machine intelligence given it's something they are immune to and would explain the casualty numbers.
It's irrelevant to the endings regardless, given they didn't actually wipe the quarians out, and can't do so without the Reapers providing them the means to do so. It doesn't work as a set up for the ending infodump, especially if you either let the quarians kill the geth or get the "ideal" ceasefire option, which commits a cardinal sin of showing exactly the opposite of what the ending is telling (suggesting the ending theme hadn't been decided upon when this part was written), before you even get into the fact that it's a small C plot that the series spends relatively little time on and never frames the way the glowkid does.
1st act the robots are just some goons to shoot, that allow themselves to be commanded by an organic (Saren) and that worship a hybrid organic-synthetic construct. You can play the entirety of the 2nd act and only ever see one geth (Legion) which says 2 words then is promptly sold to Cerberus, the rest of their arc in this game is optional filler content. In 3 they show up for a 3 mission arc (like 15% of the main plot), and rather than the story being "the created will always rebel against their creator" its the geth being totally absolved of any responsibility for the conflict, and even still trying to serve their creators as they are being attacked (if you believe the geth server files, which noone in the story ever questions the veracity of).
After this the C plot is never referenced in any relevant fashion again.
Series spends more time dealing with the Council politics, the Genophage and Cerberus ideology than it does with toasters vs meatbags.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 28, 2021 14:10:48 GMT
The Geth reduced the Quarians from a population of several billion across multiple worlds to a few hundred million. Wiping out 95% of the Quarian population. This is well beyond any reasonable argument for self defense. I've always cut the geth some slack on that one. They achieve sapience only to find themselves in the middle of an all-out war of extermination. On the evidence, it's not crazy to conclude that genocide is just what happens when two sapient species share a planet, although of course it is a small sample set. Geth think faster than organics, but I can see how they might not come up with a great system of ethics on-the-fly. The quarians had millennia to work out a system of morality, and they botched the problem anyway. Although for purposes of this topic, I don't think this matters. What happened on Rannoch certainly can be interpreted as synthetics' innate innate hostility to organic life. Tali interprets it this way. She may be wrong, but she isn't crazy. They had already achieved sapience before this. Literally the Quarian's entire plan was to wipe them out BEFORE they reached sapience. They were wrong the Geth had advanced faster and farther then they thought. The Geth were aware of the concept of death and what it means. Their violent reaction was because the Quarians were killing thousands of Geth when they destroyed the Geth servers.
Both parties were well aware of what they were doing. You do not meet an attempt at genocide with your own attempt at genocide and then pretend like only one side is bad like I have seen people do. The deliberate near total genocide beyond any need for self defense or freedom is exactly the issue at hand the Catalyst talks about. Combine this with the isolation enforced at gun point for 200 years and then the Quarians rushing in once they found a flaw they could exploit in the Geth to wipe them out is the point the Catalyst talks about. The fate of the Geth from that would shape any future synthetic life's view on the nature of the relationship between organic and synthetic and if they can be trusted at all.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 28, 2021 14:14:19 GMT
It's heavily implied by Legion in ME2 that the geth used WMDs against the quarians (chemical, radiological, potentially bioweapons) to render the planet uninhabitable, which would make sense for a machine intelligence given it's something they are immune to and would explain the casualty numbers. It's irrelevant to the endings regardless Catalyst talks about conflict between organic and synthetic life. Has valid proof that synthetics committed atrocities far beyond any reasonable level for self defense.
Then claims this information is irrelevant.
You are good at deflecting from details that counter your perspective I will give you that.
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Post by hoku on Mar 14, 2021 19:41:43 GMT
- I still dislike the endings, with or without extended cut.
- I have accepted long ago that BioWare won't try to improve the endings.
- I would accept to play in a world state not created by my Shepard. Kind of. Don't mind different M/FemShep or different decicions during the Trilogy, as long as it does not end with Control or Synthesis.
- I am still interested in future ME games (without a remake).
- I
usually always choose destroy.
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Post by Ieldra on Mar 15, 2021 15:21:35 GMT
Well...
*I still dislike the endings, with or without extended cut.
*I have accepted that Bioware won't try to improve the endings. Really, that was clear back in 2013.
*I would accept to play in a world state not created by my Shepard (as long as they don't canonize IT. If they do that, I'm out). If it's clear from the start that there won't be continuity from any of my MET playthroughs, that's fine. A canon Destroy ending would be annoying, but heck, the Shepard who created that wasn't my Shepard, I can live with that.
*I am still interested in future ME games (without a remake). Else I wouldn't post here.
*I usually choose Synthesis or Control.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 17, 2021 1:32:19 GMT
I was going to choose that I'd accept a world state that isn't a continuation of mine, but I realize that's false. I want a living BroShep who is romantically involved with Kaidan. Preferably Hero of Elysium/Vanguard/Earthborn. Reapers 100% dead at the end of ME3.
I don't know how they'll handwave away the multiple endings. I'd say they never intended to continue but there's evidence to the contrary. I believe devs said to keep ME3 saves. That would only matter if it was relevant to the next game. Anyway, BioWare dug their own hole with the endings so now they have to dig their way out. I only want two definite things: Kaidan and Red. The rest is also window dressing.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 17, 2021 3:45:52 GMT
I was going to choose that I'd accept a world state that isn't a continuation of mine, but I realize that's false. I want a living BroShep who is romantically involved with Kaidan. Preferably Hero of Elysium/Vanguard/Earthborn. Reapers 100% dead at the end of ME3. I don't know how they'll handwave away the multiple endings. I'd say they never intended to continue but there's evidence to the contrary. I believe devs said to keep ME3 saves. That would only matter if it was relevant to the next game. Anyway, BioWare dug their own hole with the endings so now they have to dig their way out. I only want two definite things: Kaidan and Red. The rest is also window dressing. If they really do attempt to account for multiple endings, prepare for one of the most homogenized world states ever, littered with some flavor dialogue and assets that get swept under the rug and avoided altogether, like the geth. Synthesis will undoubtedly be the chaff that gets cut loose, since accounting for all of galactic society being altered or not will just be too complicated for them to really work.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 17, 2021 15:16:07 GMT
I was going to choose that I'd accept a world state that isn't a continuation of mine, but I realize that's false. I want a living BroShep who is romantically involved with Kaidan. Preferably Hero of Elysium/Vanguard/Earthborn. Reapers 100% dead at the end of ME3. I don't know how they'll handwave away the multiple endings. I'd say they never intended to continue but there's evidence to the contrary. I believe devs said to keep ME3 saves. That would only matter if it was relevant to the next game. Anyway, BioWare dug their own hole with the endings so now they have to dig their way out. I only want two definite things: Kaidan and Red. The rest is also window dressing. If they really do attempt to account for multiple endings, prepare for one of the most homogenized world states ever, littered with some flavor dialogue and assets that get swept under the rug and avoided altogether, like the geth. Synthesis will undoubtedly be the chaff that gets cut loose, since accounting for all of galactic society being altered or not will just be too complicated for them to really work. I'm not sure that is a bad thing. The endings were trash so virtually ignoring them in order to restore the setting seems like a win to me.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 17, 2021 15:35:34 GMT
I'm interested in future games, but also worried and with the recent editing of Miranda, i feel agenda politics might rear its ugly head in all of this Maybe the "agenda" is trying to appeal to a broader audience. While I understand that some of the audience enjoys such imagery, there are also players whose reaction is more along the lines of  I happen to be one of them. Miranda's presentation - and Jacob's to an extent - are among the reasons I generally dislike ME2. Miranda might be an interesting character that I might have otherwise liked, but I can't get past my revulsion at having her ass in my face, never mind the cameltoe. She rarely survives ME2, so I don't have to see her in ME3.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 17, 2021 16:05:27 GMT
I don't know how they'll handwave away the multiple endings. I'd say they never intended to continue but there's evidence to the contrary. It wouldn't be hard. ME3 already said what the ending would be after the coup. I call it Hackett's ending. He tells Shepard the one's working on the crucible believe it has enough energy to destroy the reapers. That's your ending. Yes. Here's a tweet from Gamble I would not be surprised if you get your wish. One reason I say that is if the remaster does well enough, it might convince EA to have Bioware make a sequel to ME3. How well does it have to sell for that to happen? Don't know. I still believe it will sell better than MEA even with multiplayer from ME3 removed. And of course the guy telling the kid one more story.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 17, 2021 16:06:24 GMT
- I still dislike the ending.
- I have accepted that BioWare won't try again to improve the endings. (Really, I got over it a few hours after the first time I experienced it.)
- I am still interested in future games (without a remake of the trilogy).
- I usually choose destroy.
My interest in future ME games - like that of most people here, I think - has some caveats. RE anything further in TMW - I don't think so. It'd have to be a really compelling premise to pique my interest. That was quelled when they announced the move to Andromeda, and resurrecting it now is a tough sell for me. Besides, I've long held my own headcanon about what happened in TMW after the reaper war, and I'm not keen to have BioWare invalidate it. For me, the future of ME is in Andromeda. An entire galaxy to explore and adventure in. I'd prefer a more seasoned, experienced, mature Ryder & crew, but I'm willing to commit to buying any new MEA game. All that said - color me only mildly interested in BioWare's activities at this point. I'm not bothered about the fact that Anthem shit the bed, but the way they treated fans sucks hard. The way they dropped MEA with no DLCs inspires no confidence, nor does the ongoing rebooting and rebooting of DA4.
I'd love to see BioWare come back strong with some great new releases, but am not holding my breath.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 17, 2021 18:13:58 GMT
If they really do attempt to account for multiple endings, prepare for one of the most homogenized world states ever, littered with some flavor dialogue and assets that get swept under the rug and avoided altogether, like the geth. Synthesis will undoubtedly be the chaff that gets cut loose, since accounting for all of galactic society being altered or not will just be too complicated for them to really work. I'm not sure that is a bad thing. The endings were trash so virtually ignoring them in order to restore the setting seems like a win to me. You won’t get any argument out of me over that one. Beyond straight up picking a specific end state as hard canon and running with that, this is the only way to keep the setting moving forward.
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Post by Kaidan Fan on Mar 18, 2021 1:58:03 GMT
I'm interested in future games. I still dislike the ending, even with extended cut but have accepted Bioware won't do anymore to it and I *always* choose destroy.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 18, 2021 3:55:18 GMT
I'm interested in future games, but also worried and with the recent editing of Miranda, i feel agenda politics might rear its ugly head in all of this Maybe the "agenda" is trying to appeal to a broader audience. While I understand that some of the audience enjoys such imagery, there are also players whose reaction is more along the lines of I happen to be one of them. Miranda's presentation - and Jacob's to an extent - are among the reasons I generally dislike ME2. Miranda might be an interesting character that I might have otherwise liked, but I can't get past my revulsion at having her ass in my face, never mind the cameltoe. She rarely survives ME2, so I don't have to see her in ME3. See that?...you have options....you have the option to kill her off in your runs....but at the time these games was marketed to a mostly heterosexual male audience...the bottom line is when a company is selling any product is that you have to know who you are marketing the product to and for. Miranda was marketed as a lethal sexy vixen.....and as you got to know her, you would realize that she is more than just a sexy vixen...she has a background with some depth. They was already appealing to a broader audience when you have the option to choose any sexual relationship preference you chose to pursue. What broader audience was they trying to appeal to?....only thing that comes to my mind are feminists......that will be the downfall of all these games if they start a bucket list of themes to check off to make certain groups happy rather than to just focus on creating an interesting story with interesting characters. How is removing those a$$ shots appealing to a broader audience?....seems like they are worried about offending somebody rather than appealing.
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Post by Tonymac on Mar 18, 2021 14:39:22 GMT
Maybe the "agenda" is trying to appeal to a broader audience. While I understand that some of the audience enjoys such imagery, there are also players whose reaction is more along the lines of I happen to be one of them. Miranda's presentation - and Jacob's to an extent - are among the reasons I generally dislike ME2. Miranda might be an interesting character that I might have otherwise liked, but I can't get past my revulsion at having her ass in my face, never mind the cameltoe. She rarely survives ME2, so I don't have to see her in ME3. See that?...you have options....you have the option to kill her off in your runs....but at the time these games was marketed to a mostly heterosexual male audience...the bottom line is when a company is selling any product is that you have to know who you are marketing the product to and for. Miranda was marketed as a lethal sexy vixen.....and as you got to know her, you would realize that she is more than just a sexy vixen...she has a background with some depth. They was already appealing to a broader audience when you have the option to choose any sexual relationship preference you chose to pursue. What broader audience was they trying to appeal to?....only thing that comes to my mind are feminists......that will be the downfall of all these games if they start a bucket list of themes to check off to make certain groups happy rather than to just focus on creating an interesting story with interesting characters. How is removing those a$$ shots appealing to a broader audience?....seems like they are worried about offending somebody rather than appealing. It is rather telling that of ALL the things wrong with the trilogy, the one thing they go after is Miri's butt.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 18, 2021 15:53:08 GMT
Maybe the "agenda" is trying to appeal to a broader audience. While I understand that some of the audience enjoys such imagery, there are also players whose reaction is more along the lines of I happen to be one of them. Miranda's presentation - and Jacob's to an extent - are among the reasons I generally dislike ME2. Miranda might be an interesting character that I might have otherwise liked, but I can't get past my revulsion at having her ass in my face, never mind the cameltoe. She rarely survives ME2, so I don't have to see her in ME3. See that?...you have options....you have the option to kill her off in your runs.... Right. I can ignore a key character and kill her off to avoid being grossed out. Of course, in order to know to expect it, I had to experience it first. I dunno. While it seems that some straight men think the world should revolve around and cater to them exclusively, I think game developers have known for a very long time that straight men aren't the only group who buys and plays their games. I would also point out that some straight men find it insulting. Here you seem to realize that they were trying to market to people who aren't straight males. Except they do go out of their way when they specifically do this male gaze and sexualized female thing. They aren't just "focusing on an interesting story with interesting characters" when they do that. Modeling boob sculpture armor, the sex-bot, and asses worthy of filling the entire frame is a lot more work than making more generic, less clingy body and armor models. Well, at least they won't be grossing people out or insulting our intelligence. Even if you don't get Miranda's ass in your face in MELE, rest assured that you'll still have plenty of opportunity to feast your eyes over her booty if that's your jam. It is rather telling that of ALL the things wrong with the trilogy, the one thing they go after is Miri's butt. I'm not sure what it tells you. Maybe they've grown up or realized just how juvenile and out of place it is to set the camera on a character's ass when you're supposed to be having a serious conversation? I would also point out that changing the camera angle during a conversation is awfully easy to do.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 18, 2021 16:43:00 GMT
See that?...you have options....you have the option to kill her off in your runs....but at the time these games was marketed to a mostly heterosexual male audience...the bottom line is when a company is selling any product is that you have to know who you are marketing the product to and for. Miranda was marketed as a lethal sexy vixen.....and as you got to know her, you would realize that she is more than just a sexy vixen...she has a background with some depth. They was already appealing to a broader audience when you have the option to choose any sexual relationship preference you chose to pursue. What broader audience was they trying to appeal to?....only thing that comes to my mind are feminists......that will be the downfall of all these games if they start a bucket list of themes to check off to make certain groups happy rather than to just focus on creating an interesting story with interesting characters. How is removing those a$$ shots appealing to a broader audience?....seems like they are worried about offending somebody rather than appealing. It is rather telling that of ALL the things wrong with the trilogy, the one thing they go after is Miri's butt. Because everything else requires complete and total rewrites of the series from game 1. While changing some face palming camera angles takes only a little bit of work.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 18, 2021 17:17:51 GMT
I mean I'll just be honest here. I am a total pervert, whos semi-Asexual. I've spent...many hours, of time across my life, indulging in...ahem, graphic material related to Mass Effect. And even I, when I play the game, and get to those scenes where the camera is directly on her @$$, have always just chuckled and shook my head, saying to myself "why...that's so dumb". I never found it offensive, really. I just think it's stupid.
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clips7
MiNd...ExPaNsIoN....
1,829
August 2016
clips7
Blackgas7
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Post by clips7 on Mar 19, 2021 4:31:50 GMT
Right. I can ignore a key character and kill her off to avoid being grossed out. Of course, in order to know to expect it, I had to experience it first. I agree....yes no way to avoid it on your first playthrough. I dunno. While it seems that some straight men think the world should revolve around and cater to them exclusively, I think game developers have known for a very long time that straight men aren't the only group who buys and plays their games. I would also point out that some straight men find it insulting. Well of course you are going to find some like yourself that may find it offensive, but the majority had no issue with it..... Well, at least they won't be grossing people out or insulting our intelligence. Even if you don't get Miranda's ass in your face in MELE, rest assured that you'll still have plenty of opportunity to feast your eyes over her booty if that's your jam. Hmmm.... a fine ass fatty is grossing people out? Your reasoning can be seen as somewhat self-centering and selfish (i don't like this ass shot..its grossing me out and it needs to go!)....what about the folks the actually have no issue with it? You don't see how in a sense you being a bit condescending towards them?...works both ways....again the game was geared to a hetero male dominant audience and there are other sexual preferences should you choose to pursue them.... Here you seem to realize that they were trying to market to people who aren't straight males. I already addressed that Bioware gave you options other than a heterosexual relationship....maybe we'll agree to disagree on this...i stated before that i do have daughters so i get it, but i didn't see the need for them to edit Miranda... Except they do go out of their way when they specifically do this male gaze and sexualized female thing. They aren't just "focusing on an interesting story with interesting characters" when they do that. Modeling boob sculpture armor, the sex-bot, and asses worthy of filling the entire frame is a lot more work than making more generic, less clingy body and armor models. LOL...ok i will give you that...i don't know man...i don't have an issue with it....the female body armor may be a bit non-functional for the sake of cosmetics, but i like the look of EDI and Miranda,....EDI was written especially well in trying to understand human emotions and relationships in ME3...her character showed growth throughout ME3...and generally i think women want to look sexy in everything they do.....the gym?...skin tight gym outfits...at the beach?...two piece bikinis...in general?...fitted jeans that show their shape...etc....so i'd imagine that in the sci-fi world they would want their armor to be a bit tailored to their bodily dimensions.... |
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traks
1,012
Aug 22, 2016 11:07:02 GMT
August 2016
traks
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
t_raks_99
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Post by traks on Mar 19, 2021 8:55:42 GMT
When I put a thread up, I always feel a little bit responsible for it, so I'll just say: you get a little bit off-topic here, when you don't put it in perspective, why this might hurt/help your future interest in ME games. As long as you'll discuss it in a respectful manner though, carry on. Although you might find threads where this topic in general fits better. So please don't discuss this here for an eternity.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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February 2017
alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2021 18:00:04 GMT
It is rather telling that of ALL the things wrong with the trilogy, the one thing they go after is Miri's butt. All it tells us is that this change was easy. Moving the camera means changing, what, six variables, tops?
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Nov 26, 2024 12:01:18 GMT
36,904
colfoley
19,127
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Mar 19, 2021 19:35:09 GMT
It is rather telling that of ALL the things wrong with the trilogy, the one thing they go after is Miri's butt. All it tells us is that this change was easy. Moving the camera means changing, what, six variables, tops? well it is a big butt so probably mors like 10.  |
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