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Post by colfoley on Mar 19, 2021 19:38:41 GMT
I mean I'll just be honest here. I am a total pervert, whos semi-Asexual. I've spent...many hours, of time across my life, indulging in...ahem, graphic material related to Mass Effect. And even I, when I play the game, and get to those scenes where the camera is directly on her @$$, have always just chuckled and shook my head, saying to myself "why...that's so dumb". I never found it offensive, really. I just think it's stupid. not to mention demeaning to the character. Miranda: i am more then my looks! *at least that is part of her arc* Players staring at their fifth enforced butt shot: uh huh.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 19, 2021 19:59:12 GMT
not to mention demeaning to the character. Miranda: i am more then my looks! *at least that is part of her arc* Players staring at their fifth enforced butt shot: uh huh. Would you say the butt shots are an issue, then?
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 19, 2021 22:22:11 GMT
I mean I'll just be honest here. I am a total pervert, whos semi-Asexual. I've spent...many hours, of time across my life, indulging in...ahem, graphic material related to Mass Effect. And even I, when I play the game, and get to those scenes where the camera is directly on her @$$, have always just chuckled and shook my head, saying to myself "why...that's so dumb". I never found it offensive, really. I just think it's stupid. not to mention demeaning to the character. Miranda: i am more then my looks! *at least that is part of her arc* Players staring at their fifth enforced butt shot: uh huh. See, this doesn't bother me at all. I'm gay, but the overwhelming majority of players are straight guys. This appeals to them. Miranda is meant to come off as the type who enemies will underestimate because of her looks. It's outright a part of her character that she's "perfect". So, yeah, she's hot and the player is meant to understand that. If BW did that with a guy would any gay guys get upset about it? I know I wouldn't.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 19, 2021 22:32:55 GMT
It is rather telling that of ALL the things wrong with the trilogy, the one thing they go after is Miri's butt. All it tells us is that this change was easy. Moving the camera means changing, what, six variables, tops? It’s easy, but think of the story implications of this change. The context of the scenes change completely, and players will undoubtedly be confused by what they’re seeing.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 19, 2021 22:34:00 GMT
not to mention demeaning to the character. Miranda: i am more then my looks! *at least that is part of her arc* Players staring at their fifth enforced butt shot: uh huh. See, this doesn't bother me at all. I'm gay, but the overwhelming majority of players are straight guys. This appeals to them. Miranda is meant to come off as the type who enemies will underestimate because of her looks. It's outright a part of her character that she's "perfect". So, yeah, she's hot and the player is meant to understand that. If BW did that with a guy would any gay guys get upset about it? I know I wouldn't. The game definitely needed more Jacob codpiece focus.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 19, 2021 22:41:40 GMT
It is rather telling that of ALL the things wrong with the trilogy, the one thing they go after is Miri's butt. All it tells us is that this change was easy. Moving the camera means changing, what, six variables, tops? You could easily change the endings, too. You cut the code flow at the end of the Anderson dialogue, have the ending play then and there, edit the video a little to remove the things people didn't like, which is footage you already have and done. It's maybe 20 more minutes of work? And it just fixes the most controversial aspect of your entire game. Actually, no. To find the scenes in the code that have focus to Miranda butt, all of them, per dialogue and change them, would take you more time, because you'd need to play the game, find the scene, quit, go to the source code, find the scene, edit, compile, restart, make sure the new variable doesn't fuck the dialogue completely, move to the next part, rinse, repeat. It would take less time to fix the endings, if you wanted to do it on the cheap. It would also cost less.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 19, 2021 23:14:03 GMT
All it tells us is that this change was easy. Moving the camera means changing, what, six variables, tops? You could easily change the endings, too. You cut the code flow at the end of the Anderson dialogue, have the ending play then and there, edit the video a little to remove the things people didn't like, which is footage you already have and done. It's maybe 20 more minutes of work? And it just fixes the most controversial aspect of your entire game. Actually, no. To find the scenes in the code that have focus to Miranda butt, all of them, per dialogue and change them, would take you more time, because you'd need to play the game, find the scene, quit, go to the source code, find the scene, edit, compile, restart, make sure the new variable doesn't fuck the dialogue completely, move to the next part, rinse, repeat. It would take less time to fix the endings, if you wanted to do it on the cheap. It would also cost less. The primary issue here is that people leegitimatley liiked the endings, people legitimatley liked the extended cut, heck people even liked the original endings. And sure the counter argument could be 'well people liked the butt shots'. And this would be right...but then it does come down to milleage will vary when it comes to this sort of thing because it comes down to A. while I am sure you are right the ending *might* be changeable through sheer math I would still think it would be a lot easier to just move the virtual camera a couple of degrees *up* rather then cutting your ending. And B. at least imo the changing of the butt shots does not really compromise their vision or the tone of the work...actually imo the inclusion of said shots tends to do just that...changing the ending, even through sheer math, just might compromise that vision.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 19, 2021 23:28:00 GMT
All it tells us is that this change was easy. Moving the camera means changing, what, six variables, tops? You could easily change the endings, too. You cut the code flow at the end of the Anderson dialogue, have the ending play then and there, edit the video a little to remove the things people didn't like, which is footage you already have and done. It's maybe 20 more minutes of work? And it just fixes the most controversial aspect of your entire game. Actually, no. To find the scenes in the code that have focus to Miranda butt, all of them, per dialogue and change them, would take you more time, because you'd need to play the game, find the scene, quit, go to the source code, find the scene, edit, compile, restart, make sure the new variable doesn't fuck the dialogue completely, move to the next part, rinse, repeat. It would take less time to fix the endings, if you wanted to do it on the cheap. It would also cost less. I’m gonna have to call shenanigans on that 20 minutes of work claim. I’d love for a proper developer to weigh in on this, but I guess we’ll just have to deal with us filthy casuals to speculate on that. Changing the angle of a few cutscenes is a far different animal from cutting up and re-editing a multi-choice ending. From what it sounds like, it doesn’t even seem like it would even address the underlying issue with the ending anyway, except just making it shorter. It’s not even clear what parts would even be cut if we’re defining them strictly as something most people “don’t like”. Without knowing the details and how this revised flow chart works, it could just as well end up being even more confusing. Maybe you should’ve just said “Use MEHEM”.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 19, 2021 23:53:47 GMT
The primary issue here is that people leegitimatley liiked the endings, people legitimatley liked the extended cut, heck people even liked the original endings. I am sure the ME3 ending meltdown was all a figment of my imagination then. As we've established, though, they're already void. Liara lives regardless, the contract is broken. I’m gonna have to call shenanigans on that 20 minutes of work claim. I’d love for a proper developer to weigh in on this, but I guess we’ll just have to deal with us filthy casuals to speculate on that. Actually, the UE3 editor suite, is very easy for that. It has flow charts and all you have to do, is find the code that has the Anderson scene trigger and cut the line that connects to the Starchild sequence and connect it to the ending.mp4 of your choice. No editing within the sequence required. The same suite is available in the UE4 engine, which I have some limited experience in, but it is free and available for you to try, if you want? It is easily verifiable for everyone here. It's how the engine works. And it is a perfect spot, because all choices converge to that single scene, like, you're going to get it to play out regardless and everything after it is entirely disconnected. It's basically ... beautifully simple, as how the sequence plays out. Like the original plan was to have it end there and have the Crucible fire and somebody smoked way too much of the wacky tobaccy and decided to make something "artistic".
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Post by colfoley on Mar 20, 2021 0:02:16 GMT
The primary issue here is that people leegitimatley liiked the endings, people legitimatley liked the extended cut, heck people even liked the original endings. I am sure the ME3 ending meltdown was all a figment of my imagination then. As we've established, though, they're already void. Liara lives regardless, the contract is broken. I’m gonna have to call shenanigans on that 20 minutes of work claim. I’d love for a proper developer to weigh in on this, but I guess we’ll just have to deal with us filthy casuals to speculate on that. Actually, the UE3 editor suite, is very easy for that. It has flow charts and all you have to do, is find the code that has the Anderson scene trigger and cut the line that connects to the Starchild sequence and connect it to the ending.mp4 of your choice. No editing within the sequence required. The same suite is available in the UE4 engine, which I have some limited experience in, but it is free and available for you to try, if you want? It is easily verifiable for everyone here. It's how the engine works. And it is a perfect spot, because all choices converge to that single scene, like, you're going to get it to play out regardless and everything after it is entirely disconnected. It's basically ... beautifully simple, as how the sequence plays out. Like the original plan was to have it end there and have the Crucible fire and somebody smoked way too much of the wacky tobaccy and decided to make something "artistic". no one said it was anything of the kind. I was there, i melted down too. Just that you cannot discount individual opinion and preference because the mob might not like something.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 0:05:30 GMT
no one said it was anything of the kind. I was there, i melted down too. Just that you cannot discount individual opinion and preference because the mob might not like something. It's a good thing that Bioware decided for us, already, then. Refuse is already out, Synthesis is out and Liara is alive. The endings are already invalidated.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 0:07:26 GMT
no one said it was anything of the kind. I was there, i melted down too. Just that you cannot discount individual opinion and preference because the mob might not like something. It's a good thing that Bioware decided for us, already, then. Refuse is already out, Synthesis is out and Liara is alive. The endings are already invalidated. Citation needed.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 20, 2021 0:09:56 GMT
I mean I'll just be honest here. I am a total pervert, whos semi-Asexual. I've spent...many hours, of time across my life, indulging in...ahem, graphic material related to Mass Effect. And even I, when I play the game, and get to those scenes where the camera is directly on her @$$, have always just chuckled and shook my head, saying to myself "why...that's so dumb". I never found it offensive, really. I just think it's stupid. People are very inconsistent when it comes to fanservice. They say it's bad but until it isn't, it's just a mess.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 0:16:54 GMT
It's a good thing that Bioware decided for us, already, then. Refuse is already out, Synthesis is out and Liara is alive. The endings are already invalidated. Citation needed. Dead Reapers aplenty and no Green circuitry in the Will Continue trailer. Refuse is obviously established as canon. I understand that there is the defense the green circuitry can fade, but nothing of the kind has been established, or have we been led to believe so for the Milky Way. What they can say in the future may contradict it, but if we are to "unpack" anything from it, that means that synthesis is non canon.
Anyone who believes that the green circuitry can disappear, so far, is into fanfiction and headcannon territory.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 0:22:37 GMT
Dead Reapers aplenty and no Green circuitry in the Will Continue trailer. Refuse is obviously established as canon. I understand that there is the defense the green circuitry can fade, but nothing of the kind has been established, or have we been led to believe so for the Milky Way. What they can say in the future may contradict it, but if we are to "unpack" anything from it, that means that synthesis is non canon.
Anyone who believes that the green circuitry can disappear, so far, is into fanfiction and headcannon territory.
Reapers died before green beam (we are involved in the death of 4 in ME3 alone), and you pointed out one of many ways to deal with the circuits. The only thing about the Reaper War we can possibly unpack from the trailer is that this is after.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 20, 2021 0:27:53 GMT
The only reapers we really see destroyed prior to the end of ME3, besides Sovereign, are all destroyers. The one that gets zapped by Leviathan is a capital ship, but that one’s probably lying in a Leviathan’s garden in the shade.
The real issue with Synthesis as an end state is how to make the actual synthesized life part really play a meaningful role in the setting. Would people have any heightened abilities to communicate, or anything to justify this change?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 0:30:24 GMT
Reapers died before green beam (we are involved in the death of 4 in ME3 alone), and you pointed out one of many ways to deal with the circuits. The only thing about the Reaper War we can possibly unpack from the trailer is that this is after. You can't do away with the circuits with no established lore about them. If that is so, everyone is alive in that trailer. No established lore needed. Nobody is in quantum state anymore. Just because you didn't see them, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again, if you are to "unpack" anything in the trailer, some things have to be taken at face value. Liara is alive, no synthesis. Otherwise, it's false advertisement.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 1:09:28 GMT
Reapers died before green beam (we are involved in the death of 4 in ME3 alone), and you pointed out one of many ways to deal with the circuits. The only thing about the Reaper War we can possibly unpack from the trailer is that this is after. You can't do away with the circuits with no established lore about them. If that is so, everyone is alive in that trailer. No established lore needed. Nobody is in quantum state anymore. Just because you didn't see them, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again, if you are to "unpack" anything in the trailer, some things have to be taken at face value. Liara is alive, no synthesis. Otherwise, it's false advertisement. Why not? It's something that hasn't existed before, so really they can develop it however they see fit. Also technically we've seen cybernetics disappear before, with Shepard's scars going away if Paragon because the body accepts them or whatever the ingame reason was. Nothing in that trailer has to be taken at face value other than their statement that there will e more Mass Effect games (at least planned since circumstances can change before release).
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Post by colfoley on Mar 20, 2021 1:21:22 GMT
no one said it was anything of the kind. I was there, i melted down too. Just that you cannot discount individual opinion and preference because the mob might not like something. It's a good thing that Bioware decided for us, already, then. Refuse is already out, Synthesis is out and Liara is alive. The endings are already invalidated. You do raise a good point. While Liara's quantumness is a bit of a...question mark...for me (I have heard she is actually one of the most unquantum characters in the entire series), the whole ME 5 trailer does...at least imply...certain things. Now of course we can come to find out that our implications and reads of things are entirely off base but this also does suggest at least some cannonization of the ending...which then kind of begs the question about their insistance that the LEs ending will be the EC. (Though also keep in mind I suppose we could also just get a situation like at the end of ME 2 if Shepard died.)
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Post by colfoley on Mar 20, 2021 1:22:38 GMT
Reapers died before green beam (we are involved in the death of 4 in ME3 alone), and you pointed out one of many ways to deal with the circuits. The only thing about the Reaper War we can possibly unpack from the trailer is that this is after. You can't do away with the circuits with no established lore about them. If that is so, everyone is alive in that trailer. No established lore needed. Nobody is in quantum state anymore. Just because you didn't see them, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again, if you are to "unpack" anything in the trailer, some things have to be taken at face value. Liara is alive, no synthesis. Otherwise, it's false advertisement. Did Liara die during Synthesis? I think the implication there is everyone survived if we went the Synthesis route...and as far as not having green stuff that should be fairly easy to retcon that the Galactic society figured out how to hide the signs of it and 'look normal'
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 1:29:49 GMT
Why not? It's something that hasn't existed before, so really they can develop it however they see fit. Even if they can, nothing has given any indication it is. Therefore, if we are to "unpack" from the trailer, Synthesis is non canon. Also technically we've seen cybernetics disappear before, with Shepard's scars going away if Paragon because the body accepts them or whatever the ingame reason was. No connection has been established. There is no reason to come to such a conclusion. Nothing in that trailer has to be taken at face value other than their statement that there will e more Mass Effect games (at least planned since circumstances can change before release). Then it is false advertisement. Even in the cases of the previous trailers, of other games, there is truth. Ashley can be in ME3, Kaidan can be in ME3, Sheploo and FemShep can be in ME3. This will be the first trailer that is plot sensitive and is entirely fabricated, not even proof of concept, like the Anthem trailer was, which while not entirely true, it was, at least, approximately correct.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 20, 2021 1:30:50 GMT
I’m gonna have to call shenanigans on that 20 minutes of work claim. I’d love for a proper developer to weigh in on this, but I guess we’ll just have to deal with us filthy casuals to speculate on that. How long do you think it would take to remove all the content from the time Shepard passes out to just before the crucible fires the red wave? A few moments after Shepard passes out, the crucible fires destroying the reapers. If a developer were to respond, I would like to ask him/her how long it would have taken to insert all the LI in the flashback scene that were left out before the cut was released.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 1:35:56 GMT
Did Liara die during Synthesis? I think the implication there is everyone survived if we went the Synthesis route I think themikefest posted a guide where everyone dies, but you can still get Synthesis, with only the people left on the Normandy alive . and as far as not having green stuff that should be fairly easy to retcon that the Galactic society figured out how to hide the signs of it and 'look normal' None of that has been established, there's no reason to think so. At least, not yet. Again, if we are to unpack anything from the trailers, lots of Reapers dead, no green circuitry. The trailer heavily implies Destroy as the ending.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 1:38:40 GMT
You can't do away with the circuits with no established lore about them. If that is so, everyone is alive in that trailer. No established lore needed. Nobody is in quantum state anymore. Just because you didn't see them, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Again, if you are to "unpack" anything in the trailer, some things have to be taken at face value. Liara is alive, no synthesis. Otherwise, it's false advertisement. Did Liara die during Synthesis? I think the implication there is everyone survived if we went the Synthesis route...and as far as not having green stuff that should be fairly easy to retcon that the Galactic society figured out how to hide the signs of it and 'look normal' Yep. Or even heck, they could say the green circuits showing was just symbolic to show everyone became transhuman for the sake of explaining the ending but in reality nobody looked any different.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 20, 2021 1:39:11 GMT
Did Liara die during Synthesis? I think the implication there is everyone survived if we went the Synthesis route I think themikefest posted a guide where everyone dies, but you can still get Synthesis, with only the people left on the Normandy alive . and as far as not having green stuff that should be fairly easy to retcon that the Galactic society figured out how to hide the signs of it and 'look normal' None of that has been established, there's no reason to think so. At least, not yet. Again, if we are to unpack anything from the trailers, lots of Reapers dead, no green circuitry. The trailer heavily implies Destroy as the ending. Point of order it hasn't been established because we haven't seen the series from a furture perspective. If this is the case, we'll find out.
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