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Post by river82 on Feb 27, 2021 22:39:51 GMT
Also, I feel compelled to point out, *again*, that cancelling MP does not mean that those resources and manpower are being diverted to SP. None of the articles state or even imply that any extra resources are going to SP. All that's actually happened is that EA has taken money and responsibilities away from a studio who's recent projects have failed to meet expectations. People have missed another key point though. The flip side is taking money away from Bioware, even if it was for multiplayer, the sales threshold for "success" and "profit" have been reduced. It might take a bit of pressure off them not having to sell as much, it might encourage them to take a few risks because they don't have to sell as much. The flip flip side is that multiplayer could have helped attract more players to the game. But then the flip flip flip side is that the multiplayer would actually have to be good
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Post by Iakus on Feb 27, 2021 23:11:22 GMT
The answer there is: don’t release broken games in the first place. Easy to say when you only play games and have no idea how to make one. I admit I was being somewhat facetious. But there should be a minimal level of functionality for a game at release.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 27, 2021 23:36:07 GMT
Also, not for nothing, but Jedi: Fallen Order succeeding and Anthem flopping don't necessarily have anything at all to do with one being multiplayer and the other not. I think this is right. Fallen Order succeeded because it was an excellent game. Anthem was not renewed because of its issues and the loss of faith by the buying public. Lame single player games can suck royally. Compelling multiplayer games can be utterly addictive. Success (or failure) can depend on many factors.
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Post by Little Bengel on Feb 27, 2021 23:42:10 GMT
Also, not for nothing, but Jedi: Fallen Order succeeding and Anthem flopping don't necessarily have anything at all to do with one being multiplayer and the other not. I think this is right. Fallen Order succeeded because it was an excellent game. Anthem was not renewed because of its issues and the loss of faith by the buying public. Lame single player games can suck royally. Compelling multiplayer games can be utterly addictive. Success (or failure) can depend on many factors. The fuck is this? A nuanced take? Here, of all the places? You can miss me with that shit! This place is for inaccurate hyperbole and melodrama only!
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 27, 2021 23:48:49 GMT
This place is for inaccurate hyperbole and melodrama only! This is BSN, the home of thoughtful analysis. ok, screw that, but we can squeeze some in amongst the handbags at dawn.
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Post by warden on Feb 28, 2021 0:00:43 GMT
A bit late to the party but to be completely honest with you, I still don't see any of this as meaning anything, perhaps i'm at that cynical point of no return.
My point is, it's all fine and dandy but lack of direction, ideas and trash tier writing won't be fixed by only stating on social media that the game will be now SP only, there were a lot of problems long before all of this and sadly magic doesn't exist.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 28, 2021 0:19:23 GMT
Also, not for nothing, but Jedi: Fallen Order succeeding and Anthem flopping don't necessarily have anything at all to do with one being multiplayer and the other not. I think this is right. Fallen Order succeeded because it was an excellent game. Anthem was not renewed because of its issues and the loss of faith by the buying public. Lame single player games can suck royally. Compelling multiplayer games can be utterly addictive. Success (or failure) can depend on many factors. While the implications are larger than "SP Good, MP Bad", the point is that a game can't be saved or turned into a success simply for having MP components, which is counter to EA's stance of several years. We've spent half a decade trying to prove the bare essentials back to EA and, frankly, had Patrick Soderlund not left, we probably wouldn't have had this turn, at all. And this isn't to dunk on MP games, but rather specifically to pushing MP to an extraneous degree, coupled with forced monetization, which hurts a game on multiple levels.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 28, 2021 0:21:33 GMT
Also, I feel compelled to point out, *again*, that cancelling MP does not mean that those resources and manpower are being diverted to SP. None of the articles state or even imply that any extra resources are going to SP. All that's actually happened is that EA has taken money and responsibilities away from a studio who's recent projects have failed to meet expectations. People have missed another key point though. The flip side is taking money away from Bioware, even if it was for multiplayer, the sales threshold for "success" and "profit" have been reduced. It might take a bit of pressure off them not having to sell as much, it might encourage them to take a few risks because they don't have to sell as much. The flip flip side is that multiplayer could have helped attract more players to the game. But then the flip flip flip side is that the multiplayer would actually have to be good Okay Missy Elliott, enough with the flips (I kid of course). My overall perception of this is that it at least takes a major gameplay component off the plate for them to handle. BioWares recent forays into multiplayer have been a mixed bag, and I imagine having it also would had introduced additional bugs the team would need to deal with. This decision ought to make the project more manageable to complete, but the quality of the project will always be in question for me.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 28, 2021 0:58:17 GMT
I think this is right. Fallen Order succeeded because it was an excellent game. Anthem was not renewed because of its issues and the loss of faith by the buying public. Lame single player games can suck royally. Compelling multiplayer games can be utterly addictive. Success (or failure) can depend on many factors. While the implications are larger than "SP Good, MP Bad", the point is that a game can't be saved or turned into a success simply for having MP components, which is counter to EA's stance of several years. We've spent half a decade trying to prove the bare essentials back to EA and, frankly, had Patrick Soderlund not left, we probably wouldn't have had this turn, at all. And this isn't to dunk on MP games, but rather specifically to pushing MP to an extraneous degree, coupled with forced monetization, which hurts a game on multiple levels.
I think over the past few years there has been a shift from SP games with a MP modes to games that are SP only or heavily focused on the SP to the point where the MP mode is an after thought. I mean Final Fantasy VII: Remake, The Last of Us Part II, Horizon: Zero Dawn, God of War, Spider-Man, Resident Evil 2, The Rise of the Tomb Raider, The Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Skyrim, and Star Wars: Fallen Order. Even games that have a MP mode tacked on Tomb Raider, The Last of Us Part 1, and the Uncharted, GTA, and Saint's Row series aren't exactly known for their awesome MP modes.
They're famous or infamous for their single player modes. Do you think HBO is spending a lot of money on bring The Last of Us to TV based on the first game's MP mode or the single player mode?
My take on BioWare games and MP it should be on a case by case basis. I don't think every DA or ME needs a MP mode to be successful. I still think they got really lucky on ME3MP and they haven't be able to exactly copy that success since. The only time I ever played the DAIMP was to get the Dragon decor for Skyhold, once that was done I've never really bothered with it since. I've never touched the MEAMP other than sending 6 APEX units to do the missions (which I honestly LOVE it makes me like a general).
I honestly got bored with their MP modes, sorry but running around with 3 other people beating up 11 rounds of enemies with some random objectives in 3 rounds very tedious and boring. I'm not saying that if BioWare made a MP more like Halo where it's ever player for themselves would be better it would still get boring after a while.
Now if BioWare made lets say a Wicked Grace online card game I would be willing to give it a try as long as I had a single player mode to practice on, they could also expand it with new cards, themes, and rules like Magic: The Gathering, UNO, and Poker respectfully. And if I didn't like it, then I wouldn't play it.
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Post by Garo on Feb 28, 2021 1:07:12 GMT
I think this move will benefit DA as its MP was quite bad. Hopefully it will help them make SP better
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Post by xrayspex73 on Feb 28, 2021 2:01:36 GMT
4. What does this mean for DA 4s post launch cycle? For those who believe that LS is purely about MP this is welcome news...however for those of us who accepted the Hudson et all definition of it being about post launch content this could be alarming. And since none of the tweets or stuff I have read touches on this aspect...its vague enough to be worrying. Will DA 4 get live service style updates by another name? Will DA 4 get traditional BioWare DLC? And given the Jedi Fallen Order was also references will DA 4 actually not get any DLC considering it didn't? Now I know there are those who don't like any DLC...but my own appreciation of the Franchise would be very different without Awakening, Legacy, Descent, and Tresspasser. Also as a more general concern since live service games can generate a lot of money for the publishers/ devs could this mean that DA 4 won't be as big of a money maker...and thus not get as much monetary support which could effect scope, quality, dev time, etc...which then will just leave us bitching about us getting an inferior product in the end. 5. On the flip side though I think the biggest concern amongst those of us who buy the LS= post launch content argument is that does BioWare have the resources to actually develop one. This could be the best news from this because given Anthem and a few other things I am...skeptical. And while LS could just mean launch a couple of DLC packs and then move on my guess is there would be a lot more to it then just that and well developping more content= more dev resources that Bio might not have been prepared to take on. 6. While these sources tend to have an annoying frequency of being right...this can only be treated with a great big grain of salt. This is not announced by BioWare and while their track record does give them enough credence that this could be accurate...that same track record makes me wonder how much of the specifics they are right on. Especially since these articles seem to be just touching on the MP component of LS, and not the post launch content of LS.
Most reasonable people don't equate post launch DLC to "live service". I am all for them adopting their previous method of releasing finished singleplayer games and then releasing additional paid DLC single player content post launch.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 28, 2021 2:31:14 GMT
4. What does this mean for DA 4s post launch cycle? For those who believe that LS is purely about MP this is welcome news...however for those of us who accepted the Hudson et all definition of it being about post launch content this could be alarming. And since none of the tweets or stuff I have read touches on this aspect...its vague enough to be worrying. Will DA 4 get live service style updates by another name? Will DA 4 get traditional BioWare DLC? And given the Jedi Fallen Order was also references will DA 4 actually not get any DLC considering it didn't? Now I know there are those who don't like any DLC...but my own appreciation of the Franchise would be very different without Awakening, Legacy, Descent, and Tresspasser. Also as a more general concern since live service games can generate a lot of money for the publishers/ devs could this mean that DA 4 won't be as big of a money maker...and thus not get as much monetary support which could effect scope, quality, dev time, etc...which then will just leave us bitching about us getting an inferior product in the end. 5. On the flip side though I think the biggest concern amongst those of us who buy the LS= post launch content argument is that does BioWare have the resources to actually develop one. This could be the best news from this because given Anthem and a few other things I am...skeptical. And while LS could just mean launch a couple of DLC packs and then move on my guess is there would be a lot more to it then just that and well developping more content= more dev resources that Bio might not have been prepared to take on. 6. While these sources tend to have an annoying frequency of being right...this can only be treated with a great big grain of salt. This is not announced by BioWare and while their track record does give them enough credence that this could be accurate...that same track record makes me wonder how much of the specifics they are right on. Especially since these articles seem to be just touching on the MP component of LS, and not the post launch content of LS.
Most reasonable people don't equate post launch DLC to "live service". I am all for them adopting their previous method of releasing finished singleplayer games and then releasing additional paid DLC single player content post launch.
given how "most reasonable people" misdefine a lot of words this is not exactly a compelling argument. Argumentum ad populum is a thing after all.
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Post by ClarkKent on Feb 28, 2021 8:16:15 GMT
There needs to be a new definition of 'live service'. It's saddening seeing people constantly say something along the lines 'well actually Dragon Age Origins and Destiny are both live service games - I'm so clever" like that means something. One is drastically different, and with far higher levels of useless bullshit fuckery, than the other.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 28, 2021 9:45:32 GMT
I highly doubt that EA's change of direction has anything to do with aiming at better quality. It's only about financial success. Games don't actually have to be good to be profitable. They just have to be addictive in some way. Same as fast food.
Now of course when several GaaS games fail after pouring a shitload of money into development, it gets them thinking about how profitable that business model actually is.
If quality SP games are profitable right now, then they'll invest into that for a while.
Quality does not always guarantee financial success. EA has learned through their hollow sports games that the most money is made with minimal changes to an established cash cow.
A studio like BioWare sits in the uncomfortable position of being known for quality SP games with moderate financial success. Certainly not the kind of cash flow that EA is all about. So EA tried to press BioWare into the same GaaS mold as their other soulless money printing studios.
... which has not been working out at all. The way I see it, EA is giving BioWare one last chance to be an asset (again) doing what they used to be famous for, or join the pile of dead studios in EA's backyard.
This is what EA does: aquire popular studios, force them into their revenue model, realize that these studios suck at it and then discard them.
The same thing has been happening to BioWare. I doubt they can recover from EA's reeducation program...
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 28, 2021 16:56:26 GMT
That sounds nice, and might be for most games. There are some significant differences with traditional BioWare games, though, like... 1) Will this content offer decisions that impact follower approval? 2) Would they need to call in all of the follower VAs to offer comments during the questlines? 3) Will the final romance scene be available for all potential LIs? What if it's OOC for some of them? 4) Since this content is available for a limited time only, does that mean I won't have the new goodies on my next playthrough? So my dwarf PC who romances Kim can do this content, but my elven PC who romances Tracy will never get to see it? Also, as someone who enjoys modding, I'm concerned that any kind of live service will interfere with that. There's also the fact that any release of new content can introduce bugs into previous content.
I can't believe I have to say this, but I was not genuinely advocating for a Christmas event where players can recruit and romance Santa Claus. And I can't believe I have to say this, but I responded based on your example, as it seemed to be good enough to work with. Sure, but if these are exclusive timed events, the content would presumably not be available on subsequent playthroughs. Items can carryover, but any other content offered (questlines, approval changes, etc.) not so much.
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Post by Little Bengel on Feb 28, 2021 17:20:04 GMT
So I checked the ResetEra thread on this piece of news, and one of the users there (EatChildren) had this to say about the SP shift in focus, and about BioWare's recent history: So I know everyone loves to point fingers at EA, but having heard shit about BioWare and EA for literally years (none of which I can personally vet of course), the story hasn't always been that clear cut. Like, I have old videos on my computer of pre-Andromeda alpha tests 2 - 3 years before the game actually came out. And what I know or have heard about BioWare is this idea of EA pulling all the strings and ruining them or whatever is a crock of shit. Yes, EA still must pass projects and oversee general operations as the parent publisher, and yes they've stepped in and made decisions where necessary, but the truth of the matter as I've come to believe it is that BioWare in practice has been given a lot of autonomy in their business operations and project direction.
EA might have pushed hard to consolidate Frostbite as a mainline engine across studios, but AFAIK it was Flynn who made the call for BioWare to adopt it fully (which he has discussed in interviews, alongside his reasoning). Andromeda's failures were not EA's, who were absolutely 100% in on the future of the series, but BioWare's failures of management and project direction. Anthem was no different; BioWare leadership was happy to pursue a live service style game, but mangled project direction lead to the version we got. Not EA's meddling.
AFAIK, BioWare's biggest problems over the course of a generation come down to them reaching far too high for a studio that was never really at that level. And I don't mean game quality, but in production scope. BioWare is not and were never the Naughty Dogs of the world, making AAA cinematic productions. They were largely if not exclusively known for semi-janky but nevertheless very good CRPGs. Almost every project they worked on had mixed production quality and a production history full of restarts and issues. It really wasn't until Mass Effect 2 specifically came along and put them on the map of "cinematic narrative driven AAA action RPG", and it's a legacy they've struggled to upkeep. They struggled with Frostbite. They struggled with the enormous production scope of last gen AAA development. They struggled to manage production pipelines that involved hundreds of staff chipping away that games that were not under focused design or direction. And the end result were games like Andromeda and Anthem.
Going off what Schreier is talking about and the impression I've gotten from the studio, EA has BioWare's backing to basically try their hand all over again at what BioWare were best known for. I don't doubt some changes in leadership over the years contributed to that. I said it earlier in the thread, but Schreier's wording makes it sound like Dragon Age 4 was only recently rebooted as a single player game. I know this isn't true. It wasn't always one; Schreier's articles about DA4 being a live service game are absolutely true. But it has for a very good while now been a single player title that, as far as I'm aware, aims to be as faithful to what fans love about the series more than what fans are worried about it becoming. And they have EA's full blessing to do this.
I have no idea what shape it or any other projects are in. I'm sad that an Anthem revival will never eventuate. But I also get it. If all of the above is true, and I believe it, I can imagine BioWare is trying to refocus production where it best suits projects and waste little elsewhere. Montreal is now gone, post Andromeda. And if an Anthem revival was soaking up more time for a big gamble that would be better spent on seeing a faithful Dragon Age 4 through to fruition I cannot blame them for begrudgingly pulling the plug in the former to emphasise the latter.
Whether or not modern BioWare has the chops to make the games new and old fans want, I do not know. But I do think them as a studio, their projects, and their relationship with EA has been unfairly soured through the years via false assumptions. It doesn't negate BioWare's mistakes and failures of leadership and project direction over almost an entire gen, but I don't think the story is as binary or clear cut as gamers would like it to be (or think it is), and I'm not sure BioWare is worth writing off completely yet.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 28, 2021 18:34:23 GMT
If EA is so hands-off, how come the game got rebooted into being a MP focused live service game that probably led to Laidlaw leaving in the first place then?
Also, there's a big difference between "do whatever you're best at and most comfortable with" and "do what you want as long as you include X and Y and make us lots of money".
I mean, Anthem was apparently a game about flying because Söderlund liked that aspect. He basically told them what game to make.
BioWare has management issues, yes. Which might have to do with the studio trying to be successful in line with EA's revenue goals? Clearly the devs had no idea what to do with Anthem for years. That's on them. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare's lack a creative vision has to do with being worried what papa EA will think of any idea discussed. They probably have internal issues between what's left of the old guard and new employees who might actually be in favor of MP heavy games.
So WHO are BioWare in 2021? I haven't the faintest idea.
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Post by river82 on Feb 28, 2021 21:48:47 GMT
So I checked the ResetEra thread on this piece of news, Well that was your first mistake. A crippling one usually. The rest of the post is just them making assumptions, then drawing conclusions based on their assumptions to back up pre-conceived theories sprinkled with one or two things they do know. Holy shit that's a dangerous post. Here's what it does, it builds up weight by using the things they do know to back up the things they (actually say) they don't. I know why they post on Resetera now. "EA might have pushed hard for Frostbyte's adoption but it was Flynn who made the call" in response to EA pushing hard you moron. This guy literally said it in the first half of his sentence. How hard is this logic thing? "Schreier's post makes it seem like the decision was made more recently than it was" but the point was that it had to be made at all. And it may have been made a while ago, but considering Bioware aren't transparent then this is how we hear about things. Then he ends by lumping all gamers into one basket and attributing the community's worst beliefs to the whole group. Jesus Christ, Resetera is a shithole. People inside the gaming industry, even people with just a foot in like this, would be surprised how much some gamers know. For example, I could have told you all about Blizzard's problems concerning China and their problems in general a couple of years before it blew up in the media, and I even told Links publicly on this site years ago to watch out for Blizz's impending decline, but I don't voice these things. What can I say, I'm a darn visionary. I do the voodoo. I make teh false assumptions *rolls eyes*
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Post by river82 on Feb 28, 2021 22:25:11 GMT
If EA is so hands-off, how come the game got rebooted into being a MP focused live service game that probably led to Laidlaw leaving in the first place then? Also, there's a big difference between "do whatever you're best at and most comfortable with" and "do what you want as long as you include X and Y and make us lots of money". I mean, Anthem was apparently a game about flying because Söderlund liked that aspect. He basically told them what game to make. BioWare has management issues, yes. Which might have to do with the studio trying to be successful in line with EA's revenue goals? Clearly the devs had no idea what to do with Anthem for years. That's on them. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare's lack a creative vision has to do with being worried what papa EA will think of any idea discussed. They probably have internal issues between what's left of the old guard and new employees who might actually be in favor of MP heavy games. So WHO are BioWare in 2021? I haven't the faintest idea. One of the first things you need to do when developing a big game is setting up a monetisation policy. Because business is business. This sort of thing allows EA to avoid the blame while putting pressure on developers and it is a very natural thing (they supply the money so you have to convince them) but it's the sort of thing which influences development without having to have a direct hand. Funnily enough games like Rust and Valheim recently blew up astronomically. Rust isn't published by a big publisher. Valheim isn't published by a big publisher. Because these things to them aren't games worth putting money in. Most games the big publishers publish look the same and chase trends because those are the easiest pitches to make,. Big publishers restrict developers in ways that are not apparent and allows them to say we had nothing to do with it. The live service thing would have been influenced by EA because Bioware need to inform them how their game is going to make money.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 28, 2021 22:51:33 GMT
There needs to be a new definition of 'live service'. It's saddening seeing people constantly say something along the lines 'well actually Dragon Age Origins and Destiny are both live service games - I'm so clever" like that means something. One is drastically different, and with far higher levels of useless bullshit fuckery, than the other. it does mean something. Right now we have a situation where devs are abunduntly clear on what is and what id not a live service game. Adudience reactions: liars! Or We have no idea what a live service game is. Game dev... But we just told you. Audience: such a mystery.
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Dec 12, 2024 17:48:39 GMT
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Little Bengel
Partying like it's 1999
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geminifreak
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Feb 28, 2021 23:23:46 GMT
Well that was your first mistake. A crippling one usually. I doubt it qualifies as a mistake; I find it somewhat informative to get an overview of the discourse in as many places as possible. ResetEra is no different, regardless of its reputation. At worst, it is a gaming forum, and we all know how pleasant discourse can get in gaming forums, don't we? Well... yes. It's called "speculation". And people do have conclusions they lean towards when speculating, consciously or otherwise. I'm pretty sure you've done it at some point, too. Should I assume your own speculations on DA4 to be made for manipulative ends (as you seem? Give me a break, please. You got a point there, to some extent. I find that the "when" of this decision is more important regarding discussion on DA4 than the "when" or the "how" of it coming to the public. As I said, ResetEra is a gaming forum, and we all know that funny thing about gaming forums, my dude. They just hit different. Some gamers, perhaps. But you'd be surprised in turn by how little plenty of them appear to know about these things in general. Reddit and social media in particular. It can be a remarkably sobering experience.
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SirSourpuss
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 28, 2021 23:50:29 GMT
Little BengelI have it in good faith that in all those decisions, if not directly responsible, but at least involved, Patrick Soderlund had some saying in them. Even if Aaryn Flynn made a decision, don't you think someone would have asked it of him? Because Aaryn, especially for Andromeda, which was already being built in UE4, with prototypes etc. already made, what incentive would there be to scrap it and start from the start in a new engine, which Edmonton had already faced huge problems programming for? Going by Schreiers article, of course. Not to say the decision wasn't Aaryn's, but it may not have been 100% Aaryn's initiative. Unless he had some personal beef with getting Frostbite to work as he wanted it to. Which I can't rule out, but I doubt the likelihood of. I also doubt Montreal would have gone with that decision, without some fighting back. I can't imagine it having gone well. I can see how said user can make some speculation, but I don't think he's examined it thoroughly. Also, yeah, I'm not a fan of ResetEra, but if any insight can be shed, I don't particularly care where it's from. I just don't think this user is 100% right.
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Little Bengel
Partying like it's 1999
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February 2017
geminifreak
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 1, 2021 0:51:03 GMT
Little Bengel I have it in good faith that in all those decisions, if not directly responsible, but at least involved, Patrick Soderlund had some saying in them. Even if Aaryn Flynn made a decision, don't you think someone would have asked it of him? Because Aaryn, especially for Andromeda, which was already being built in UE4, with prototypes etc. already made, what incentive would there be to scrap it and start from the start in a new engine, which Edmonton had already faced huge problems programming for? Going by Schreiers article, of course. Not to say the decision wasn't Aaryn's, but it may not have been 100% Aaryn's initiative. Unless he had some personal beef with getting Frostbite to work as he wanted it to. Which I can't rule out, but I doubt the likelihood of. I also doubt Montreal would have gone with that decision, without some fighting back. I can't imagine it having gone well. I can see how said user can make some speculation, but I don't think he's examined it thoroughly. Also, yeah, I'm not a fan of ResetEra, but if any insight can be shed, I don't particularly care where it's from. I just don't think this user is 100% right. I might be misremembering, but I don't remember disagreeing with the notion that EA invariably played a large role in BioWare adopting Frostbite, even if Flynn ultimately made the decision himself. As far as the rest of the contents of the post, I only really care about the part about the timeline of the shift to full SP, and what it implies regarding future development time. The remaining speculation is interesting to think about, but it's ultimately not the main concern.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 1, 2021 1:07:49 GMT
I might be misremembering, but I don't remember disagreeing with the notion that EA invariably played a large role in BioWare adopting Frostbite, even if Flynn ultimately made the decision himself. I don't recall you doing so. I am referencing the ResetEra user you quoted. He seems to imply that all the bad decisions were Bioware's own initiative 100%, which I don't consider it to be true. Not that Bioware can't make bad decisions, they've made plenty through their last 6 games at least. As far as the rest of the contents of the post, I only really care about the part about the timeline of the shift to full SP, and what it implies regarding future development time. The remaining speculation is interesting to think about, but it's ultimately not the main concern. I do understand. Your friend seems to imply that DA4 had move away from being Live Service for a very long time now. Which makes me wonder. Bioware had gone rogue at a number of things. Like the first DA4 trailer and the ME:LE. Could they have also gone rogue on the MP/LS development of the game? With Mark Darrah taking full responsibility for it and EA, basically, either needing to reboot the game again, to be MP/LS or allowing the team to finish it, down the road it had already taken, for 2 years now as an SP only game? Which would explain Mark's departure alongside Casey. It makes sense, in retrospect, but it's not something I had heard. On the other hand, the stuff I hear about DA are very few, because I don't particularly care for it.
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river82
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Post by river82 on Mar 1, 2021 2:28:01 GMT
Well... yes. It's called "speculation". And people do have conclusions they lean towards when speculating, consciously or otherwise. I'm pretty sure you've done it at some point, too. Should I assume your own speculations on DA4 to be made for manipulative ends (as you seem? Give me a break, please. Of course I've done it, the difference is it doesn't get held up as a piece of discourse worthy of consideration. Right? If any of my posts do feel free to shoot it down. But the problem I have with this poster is below: You got a point there, to some extent. It's more than a point. Look, one of the first things you learn when you're a part of a big corporation is that acting professionally doesn't necessarily mean lying, it means omitting things. You don't burn bridges when you leave, you own up to mistakes, you demonstrate yourself as a team player so you can continue to network. Unless you don't mind burning one or two bridges, like Amy Hennig. That this person, who seems to have inside connections on some things, resorts to a public statement by Casey, which could be filled with half truths because you don't bad speak your boss or overseer when you leave, means he's using his credentials to give weight to something he has no clue about. This is why I'm disgusted. Reading his post I feel like he's had inside knowledge about things. That's fine, you'd be surprised how many people do. But what he's doing is ... deceptive imo? You don't mix these things. You state what you know. Then you make clear what you don't. Mixing them up makes it feel like he KNOWS more than he does, It's things like this you see politicians do. That this person said that there was a huge push by EA to use Frostbite, then he turns around, points to a carefully worded public statement, and says NUP nothing to do with it is odd at best. I'll state straight up if there was a huge push by EA, that huge push would have almost certainly been part of the reason of the engine's adoption. I find that the "when" of this decision is more important regarding discussion on DA4 than the "when" or the "how" of it coming to the public. It depends what you're concerned about. If you're concerned about how easily Bioware can transition to this shift then the "when" is DEFINITELY more important. If you're concerned about just how much influence EA has over Bioware then that it was ever a state the game was in is concerning. Mainly because Bioware don't do the multiplayer live service thing well. I know Colfoley stated in another thread you can play Anthem solo, but you can play World of Warcraft solo as well, it's still a multiplayer live service game. But I agree it is comforting to know that if it was THAT early they can transition Some gamers, perhaps. But you'd be surprised in turn by how little plenty of them appear to know about these things in general. Reddit and social media in particular. It can be a remarkably sobering experience. That's true, I guess. I don't like these whole blanket statements against gamers as a whole. It's like, I identify as a gamer, I haven't hurt you or behaved badly or anything so why the attacks by people?
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