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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 25, 2021 23:15:19 GMT
Anthem is dead, long live DA SP? Nifty. My interest in DA4 just went up a whole bunch. So now I can hope for the return of the power wheel and no limits to the number of talents you can load at a time. Ooh, and the return of programmable tactics, Biower pls. This is sounding much better, much more like BioWare. That's not how budgets work, though. You have one singular budget for your entire project and you allocate it to every feature in it. That's it. The 40 or so million that MEA had? That was all the money they got for everything in that game, MP included. Actually we have instances where it has been separate allocation for it in the past. Maybe not with Dragon Age or EA, but other games and companies have done that. We will give you 50 million for this game, and another 20 million for multiplayer and such like that. No multiplayer? Ok only 50 million. The numbers notwithstanding, I've always felt that any plan to include MP impacts the overall design of SP combat. That is, imho, the greater cost. And speaking of cost - imagine the amount of time and money wasted on this whole process. AFAIK, Joplin was progressing nicely only to be torn asunder and rebooted, and now rebooted again. These constant changes are extremely costly, both in $ and time to market.
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 25, 2021 23:42:31 GMT
Not at all happy with this if true.
Absolutely the only thing that keeps me involved with bioware games in the 10 years between games is mp.
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Frost
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Post by Frost on Feb 25, 2021 23:46:25 GMT
Amazing news! I thought EA would never let Bioware go back to making single-player games.
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Post by sni2 on Feb 25, 2021 23:56:35 GMT
Does it mean that Dragon Age is being rebooted again as another 60's musician named project?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Feb 26, 2021 0:08:50 GMT
Does it mean that Dragon Age is being rebooted again as another 60's musician named project? That is actually the big question now, isn't it? If I had to guess, I'd say no, but only because it would mean 6 or 7 years of sunk cost being thrown out completely. That is expensive, no matter how big you are. I think they'll keep the bones of what they were working on, and take out things like repeating missions and dailys/weeklys as well as the multiplayer content. What that will leave to ship? No idea.
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 26, 2021 0:10:19 GMT
Assuming this allows them to be more focused on single-player elements, this is terrific news.
Actually, come to think of it, 'EA studios are allowed to make single-player games' is terrific news anyway, regardless of what it means for DA4. (I have nothing against multiplayer or live service games, but not every game needs to be one.)
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 26, 2021 0:13:43 GMT
To reiterate a point in the article, the shift seems to have happened months ago, so it’s not something completely recent. And I think the game is quite far from release that the shift isn’t going to worsen things up, in regards of development, that much. But we’ll know more about this this year, by judging what kind of content they’d show us.
Given the shift being a few months ago, it’s possible the last trailer was developed by keeping in mind the new stance, although it did give me some vibe about a live service game.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 26, 2021 0:15:53 GMT
I know that it was mentioned in the article that this had to with the overselling of Fallen Order and underperformance of Anthem, but I have to also wonder if the move to being on Gamepass also spurred this decision. Maybe it's bringing in more revenue than EA could have hoped for, and so they feel there's a bit more freedom.
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Post by necrowaif on Feb 26, 2021 0:18:39 GMT
To reiterate a point in the article, the shift seems to have happened months ago, so it’s not something completely recent. *Put on tinfoil hat* We all lamented the departure of Mark Darrah and Casey Hudson. But what if they were the leads pushing hardest for DA4 to be a multiplayer game, and when EA told BioWare to shift focus, they refused? The fact their departure was announced the day before the unofficial Dragon Age Day celebration might have been symbolic, especially since Darrah doesn't seem to have left to do anything else.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 26, 2021 0:22:23 GMT
To reiterate a point in the article, the shift seems to have happened months ago, so it’s not something completely recent. *Put on tinfoil hat* We all lamented the departure of Mark Darrah and Casey Hudson. But what if they were the leads pushing hardest for DA4 to be a multiplayer game, and when EA told BioWare to shift focus, they refused? Based on what sirpetrakus said on their leaving, and how BioWare got ‘concessions’ in exchange of their dismissal, I wonder the opposite, if the concessions were related to the shift. I guess we’ll never know, unless some report comes out about this.
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Post by necrowaif on Feb 26, 2021 0:23:58 GMT
Based on what sirpetrakus said on their leaving, and how BioWare got ‘concessions’ in exchange of their dismissal, I wonder the opposite, if the concessions were related to the shift. I don't trust anyone whose source of information is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 26, 2021 0:29:18 GMT
To reiterate a point in the article, the shift seems to have happened months ago, so it’s not something completely recent. And I think the game is quite far from release that the shift isn’t going to worsen things up, in regards of development, that much. But we’ll know more about this this year, by judging what kind of content they’d show us. Given the shift being a few months ago, it’s possible the last trailer was developed by keeping in mind the new stance, although it did give me some vibe about a live service game. Hoping you're wrong and that trailer was just old and they have changed a lot.
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xrayspex73
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Post by xrayspex73 on Feb 26, 2021 0:52:52 GMT
Whilst I played tons of DAI multiplayer, I am fine with them removing multiplayer from DA. This hopefully ensures it will not be an online only live-service abomination like Anthem. Personally wish they would just do what they did with DAI, a huge singleplayer campaign and a separate coop online mode. But I can get behind a singleplayer only game. It would be Bioware actually moving in the right direction for the fist time in almost a decade.
Don't get me wrong, Bioware still sucks and DA4 will still likely be bad as they simply don't have the creative talent to make good games anymore.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 26, 2021 0:57:53 GMT
The only way I can see this being good news is it was only because of the GaaS thing that it was going to be a new protagonist (since everyone would be playing together) so with that now scrapped the Inquisitor is the protagonist. I see a near zero likelihood of the protagonist being the Inquisitor, nor should it be in my view. I enjoyed the DAI multiplayer but I find this a smart move that focuses the game on its key selling point and gives it a maximum chance to generate some good will that is sorely needed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 26, 2021 1:04:57 GMT
The only way I can see this being good news is it was only because of the GaaS thing that it was going to be a new protagonist (since everyone would be playing together) so with that now scrapped the Inquisitor is the protagonist. I see a near zero likelihood of the protagonist being the Inquisitor, nor should it be in my view. I enjoyed the DAI multiplayer but I find this a smart move that focuses the game on its key selling point and gives it a maximum chance to generate some good will that is sorely needed. I don't see it happening either. That requires Bioware actually having a brain. They've proven without doubt that they don't. Ah yes, nothing generates good will like pissing off a part of your fanbase like the DA players who enjoyed MP.
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Post by 10k on Feb 26, 2021 1:22:47 GMT
Now I'm wondering do they still have to use that god awful engine. Or can they go back to using unreal. This is a nice step in the right direction.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2021 1:24:26 GMT
So I have thoughts lol.
1. Being blunt for effect, and lack of a better word, given the insinuation of others around here...was Casey Hudson lying? Granted this was not the entire basis of my pro LS argument, but it was at least somewhat of a thought his rather infamous blog article where he indicated that live service was kind of just about supporting a game after its release rather then anything to do with MP. Though coupled with the fact that other games had adopted similar models...whether they called it LS or not...the argument did seem plausible. This also may add context to his departure from BioWare because now one has to wonder if he was the one pushing LS in the first place. 2. However I can't say that I am the least bit surprised by this. I have been speculating that with the success of AC Odyssey and AC Vahalla (?) that EA might take note and make it entirely a SP project regardless. Looks like I was right. 3. What does this mean for DA 4s dev cycle? This could represent another significant reboot which could push it back. Now I kind of doubt it since LS has nothing too much to do with gameplay per se...again I have always accepted the definition it was about post launch content...but it could have an effect on any number of the games programs or mecanics because that might effect how they balance encounters and the world to encourage long term playability. Also it should be noted that I doubt this means that this means DA 4 is going back to a DAO size world either. That would surprise me. 4. What does this mean for DA 4s post launch cycle? For those who believe that LS is purely about MP this is welcome news...however for those of us who accepted the Hudson et all definition of it being about post launch content this could be alarming. And since none of the tweets or stuff I have read touches on this aspect...its vague enough to be worrying. Will DA 4 get live service style updates by another name? Will DA 4 get traditional BioWare DLC? And given the Jedi Fallen Order was also references will DA 4 actually not get any DLC considering it didn't? Now I know there are those who don't like any DLC...but my own appreciation of the Franchise would be very different without Awakening, Legacy, Descent, and Tresspasser. Also as a more general concern since live service games can generate a lot of money for the publishers/ devs could this mean that DA 4 won't be as big of a money maker...and thus not get as much monetary support which could effect scope, quality, dev time, etc...which then will just leave us bitching about us getting an inferior product in the end. 5. On the flip side though I think the biggest concern amongst those of us who buy the LS= post launch content argument is that does BioWare have the resources to actually develop one. This could be the best news from this because given Anthem and a few other things I am...skeptical. And while LS could just mean launch a couple of DLC packs and then move on my guess is there would be a lot more to it then just that and well developping more content= more dev resources that Bio might not have been prepared to take on. 6. While these sources tend to have an annoying frequency of being right...this can only be treated with a great big grain of salt. This is not announced by BioWare and while their track record does give them enough credence that this could be accurate...that same track record makes me wonder how much of the specifics they are right on. Especially since these articles seem to be just touching on the MP component of LS, and not the post launch content of LS.
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andydandymandy
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Post by andydandymandy on Feb 26, 2021 1:27:11 GMT
Could a live service Dragon Age game work? Perhaps. But DA4 being a games as service? The direct follow up to Inquisition where we finally go to Tevinter and finally get a conclusion to the Solas storyline? Making that a games as service looter shooter would've been a disaster. I am sad that they wasted money and time developing that version of the game but I am glad we are getting the single player that this needs to be.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 26, 2021 1:46:14 GMT
I don't see it happening either. That requires Bioware actually having a brain. They've proven without doubt that they don't. Ah yes, nothing generates good will like pissing off a part of your fanbase like the DA players who enjoyed MP. I find a new protagonist for each game to be a smart move which continues what's happened in parts 1-3, BioWare has previously described new protagonists as their preferred approach and it's a good way to allow new players into the franchise. The fanbase who only came for Dragon Age multiplayer was certainly there but it was smaller than the proportion that came just for Mass Effect multiplayer. I'd guess it was 10% tops. I'd say the proportion delighted by the recent news that we are not getting 'Anthem with dragons' will be considerably greater, so it's a shrewd step. Had you considered giving it a rest (the next Dragon Age game) as the prospect seems to be making you miserable.
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Post by Ponendus on Feb 26, 2021 1:54:34 GMT
To reiterate a point in the article, the shift seems to have happened months ago, so it’s not something completely recent. *Put on tinfoil hat* We all lamented the departure of Mark Darrah and Casey Hudson. But what if they were the leads pushing hardest for DA4 to be a multiplayer game, and when EA told BioWare to shift focus, they refused? The fact their departure was announced the day before the unofficial Dragon Age Day celebration might have been symbolic, especially since Darrah doesn't seem to have left to do anything else. Have been saying this for years. The departure of devs isn’t always what it seems. I long suspected that Mark Darrah and to some extent Mike Laidlaw were potentially responsible for the shifting Dragon Age experience. Their departures may actually be the thing that gets it back on track. Don’t forget Mike Laidlaw publically said once in an interview that Mark Darrah approached him at the start of the DAI development process and said ‘just build me a big, big open world’ or something to that effect. Setting the tone for DAI being more about size and scope than just a good story, with the environment being just big enough to serve that (which is what I believe these games should be imo). I wish I could find the link to that but it was a long time ago... I just remember thinking ‘what, why?’ when I read it. Also don’t forget the awesome button, which is never what DA was about. All these people are wonderful developers and thoroughly decent people. I just think their departure may actually be retrospectively good for this franchise, to my personal tastes. David Gaider leaving was a horrible loss however...
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 26, 2021 1:57:42 GMT
It gives me hope that Patrick Weekes alongside many known and unknown fine writers are certainly capable of crafting first class characters and stories that could sit very well with this SP format.
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Post by river82 on Feb 26, 2021 2:02:14 GMT
Could a live service Dragon Age game work? Perhaps. But DA4 being a games as service? The direct follow up to Inquisition where we finally go to Tevinter and finally get a conclusion to the Solas storyline? Making that a games as service looter shooter would've been a disaster. I am sad that they wasted money and time developing that version of the game but I am glad we are getting the single player that this needs to be. Assassins Creed Odyssey is a live service, just not a multiplayer live service. It could work, depends how it's done
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Post by river82 on Feb 26, 2021 2:03:24 GMT
I don't see it happening either. That requires Bioware actually having a brain. They've proven without doubt that they don't. Ah yes, nothing generates good will like pissing off a part of your fanbase like the DA players who enjoyed MP. I find a new protagonist for each game to be a smart move which continues what's happened in parts 1-3, BioWare has previously described new protagonists as their preferred approach and it's a good way to allow new players into the franchise. The fanbase who only came for Dragon Age multiplayer was certainly there but it was smaller than the proportion that came just for Mass Effect multiplayer. I'd guess it was 10% tops. I'd say the proportion delighted by the recent news that we are not getting 'Anthem with dragons' will be considerably greater, so it's a shrewd step. DA multiplayer was always ... not very good anyway xD
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Post by river82 on Feb 26, 2021 2:12:31 GMT
So I have thoughts lol. For those who believe that LS is purely about MP this is welcome news...however for those of us who accepted the Hudson et all definition of it being about post launch content this could be alarming. And since none of the tweets or stuff I have read touches on this aspect...its vague enough to be worrying. Will DA 4 get live service style updates by another name? Considering some employees reportedly dismissed the game as "Anthem with Dragons", and considering this is Jason we're talking about with the contacts so I have no doubt this is the case, we can assume that a large part of the LS was tied into the multiplayer aspect of the game. Because that's what Anthem was. Thank you for the copy and paste I couldn't read the article on the site unfortunately
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 26, 2021 2:30:34 GMT
Thank you for the copy and paste I couldn't read the article on the site unfortunately You're welcome. Glad I could help. I don't see it happening either. That requires Bioware actually having a brain. They've proven without doubt that they don't. Ah yes, nothing generates good will like pissing off a part of your fanbase like the DA players who enjoyed MP. I find a new protagonist for each game to be a smart move which continues what's happened in parts 1-3, BioWare has previously described new protagonists as their preferred approach and it's a good way to allow new players into the franchise. The fanbase who only came for Dragon Age multiplayer was certainly there but it was smaller than the proportion that came just for Mass Effect multiplayer. I'd guess it was 10% tops. I'd say the proportion delighted by the recent news that we are not getting 'Anthem with dragons' will be considerably greater, so it's a shrewd step. Had you considered giving it a rest (the next Dragon Age game) as the prospect seems to be making you miserable. It's a smart move, so long as the previous protagonist's stories are finished. I've stated many times: If DAI ended with the vanilla ending, I'd have no qualms with some new protagonist dealing with Solas. But Trespasser directly involved the old one. It'd be like if ME3 had Coates as the protagonist instead of Shepard. I don't buy the "It's a good way to allow new players in" since really that's kind of insulting to the intelligence of new players. There are tons of series that continue with protagonists that new players immediately understand what's going on. And if not, have a recap conversation or Codex entries which Bioware does anyway even with new PCs. Okay, let's use your math. Say DA4 would make $100 million dollars. That 10% lowers that to $90 million, meaning they lost $10 million dollars. Not a good business model, particularly for a company that now has developed a reputation for stabbing their playerbase in the back. What do you mean?
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