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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 26, 2021 17:24:39 GMT
Multiplayer can work in Dragon Age, but I always felt it should be styled in a manner similar to Halo 4's Warzone mode, which was a 4 player cooperative experience that added it's own tangential story element, and was accompanied with a cinematic upon completion of a mission. Alternatively, they could have gone the Vermintide 2 route with the story exposition taking place as you go. The characters for DA:MP had their own personalities to them, so the remaining stretch would be to (1) have a narrative component for the mission you're undertaking - including the boss - and, (2) build up the dungeon crawler experience that DA:MP was going for. As I said before, if BioWare wanted to do multiplayer, its not like it couldn't come down the line after the game launched. You’re thinking of Spartan Ops, not Warzone. Warzone was in Halo 5 where it was Red vs Blue vs AI.
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Post by jrpN7 on Feb 26, 2021 17:36:58 GMT
People like to blame EA on bioware failures. If bioware can stick to straight forward plan instead of changing it they wouldn't be in a mess. STICK TO YOUR PLAN STOP CHANGING IT!! Well, that's just it. BioWare would have the option of sticking to their plans if EA didn't force them to alter them all the time. It's safe to conclude that there's some poor decision making on EA's part when the multiple creative studios they buy all end up the same way: a mess.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 26, 2021 17:54:21 GMT
Well, that's just it. BioWare would have the option of sticking to their plans if EA didn't force them to alter them all the time. It's safe to conclude that there's some poor decision making on EA's part when the multiple creative studios they buy all end up the same way: a mess. There's a lot of shit coming out about Patrick Soderlund. Like, I don't know if this will get media coverage, but if there's a bad decision, looks like there's plausible chance he was behind it, or somehow involved in it. Can one man really be that wrong? And, you know, Patrick oversaw all development for E.A. North America, which included Bioware and is now being overseen by Vince Zampella. I think Patrick's departure is the best thing that Bioware could have hoped for. I'm going to make a bold prediction. You guys shouldn't expect launch fiascos like that of Andromeda and Anthem from Bioware anymore. At least from the technical side. The writing is not a department I can give guarantees to and how that can influece the future of the games. I guess we can always come up with the "Anthem of Creation" plots in the eleventh hour.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 26, 2021 17:56:32 GMT
Right, as I suspected, you didn't pass on them, so you passing on DA4 because "No Multiplayer" is total nonsense. Indeed, though Bioware has over the years changed as a studio - and so have I as a gamer - drifting towards multiplayer games. Bioware has created and catered for a small yet passionate, dedicated and hardcore multiplayer community which I have been part of. If they turn their back to that community, what is that community supposed to do? Still hype up and buy their games? Well, not me. I will pass it. I understand you might have your reasons to look forward to a new Dragon Age game, good for you. Most of the so called "Bioware fans" should be on the same boat, though not all.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 26, 2021 18:01:49 GMT
I believe they will make more money by doubling down on single player than those multiplayer players they would lose. Depends on the game. ME3's biggest cash cow was the MP. They even bragged about how someone had spent, I forget the 0s, was it 15k or 150k on it? There is definitely a market for MP in Bioware games, more lucrative than the SP or the DLCs. Execution is another thing. BioWare has done much more than "flirt" with multiplayer. Shattered Steel had a multiplayer mode, and BG2 and NWN. Historically, it's more common for BioWare games to have a multiplayer component than not. Surprised a traditionalist doesn't know that. I haven't said I was a traditionalist in that sense. I stated that Dragon age is primarily a single player experience (with a bit of MP in DAI that doesn't actually interfere in the SP experience such as MF3 prior to the definitive edition). That's the product I've been consumming for years and the product I want to continue supporting. There are, I'd say, fundamental differences on how the MP aspect was implemented on the games mentioned above, how Bioware was known at the time of Shattered Steel's release (was it their second game?) and how intrusive to the experience it was for more recent titles. The DA:I MP is nothing like the BG and NWN MP modes, for example. I hated DA:I's combat, to be honest, so I don't know why anyone would want to grind MP with it.
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 26, 2021 18:42:23 GMT
Well, that's just it. BioWare would have the option of sticking to their plans if EA didn't force them to alter them all the time. It's safe to conclude that there's some poor decision making on EA's part when the multiple creative studios they buy all end up the same way: a mess. There's a lot of shit coming out about Patrick Soderlund. Like, I don't know if this will get media coverage, but if there's a bad decision, looks like there's plausible chance he was behind it, or somehow involved in it. Can one man really be that wrong? And, you know, Patrick oversaw all development for E.A. North America, which included Bioware and is now being overseen by Vince Zampella. I think Patrick's departure is the best thing that Bioware could have hoped for. I'm going to make a bold prediction. You guys shouldn't expect launch fiascos like that of Andromeda and Anthem from Bioware anymore. At least from the technical side. The writing is not a department I can give guarantees to and how that can influece the future of the games. I guess we can always come up with the "Anthem of Creation" plots in the eleventh hour. From what I know, Soderlund has a bit of an ego on him and his ideas are often...trend focused from behind, if that makes sense. His departure did see an increase in quality and diversity, as he was one of the people who was pushing for multi and service in everything. Thay said, he was bang on about the mechanics of Anthem, namely the flying, being the main draw, which regardless of how many feel it was the best part of the game. Still, him not there is a good thing net overall, he was basically fitting round pegs into square holes.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 26, 2021 18:43:20 GMT
I never really liked the new protagonist every game thing anyway. I always get attached to characters in a story and when the story continues focusing on another character I feel a lot less interested for a bit and have to work my interest back up. They sort of bound themselves to a new PC each game from the beginning - by allowing the US as an option for the warden. They even had to give players an alternate PC for the expansion ( Awakening). So - a continuing PC was pretty much a non-starter for DA. Well, the warden's story was the 5th blight, Hawke's was about Kirkwall and the mage rebellion, then we had an Inquisition. These are all unique stories, and it makes sense (to me, anyway) that each would have its own protag. But this is the part where I will say it sort of annoys me when any character other than the warden deals with darkspawn or warden intrigue. I vaguely remember being rather miffed to see Hawke uncovering Malcolm's warden-ly secrets and freeing Corywhatsitsass. Right there with ya. They could tone down Ryder's clever language, and carry on just fine.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 26, 2021 18:48:51 GMT
Multiplayer can work in Dragon Age, but I always felt it should be styled in a manner similar to Halo 4's Warzone mode, which was a 4 player cooperative experience that added it's own tangential story element, and was accompanied with a cinematic upon completion of a mission. Alternatively, they could have gone the Vermintide 2 route with the story exposition taking place as you go. The characters for DA:MP had their own personalities to them, so the remaining stretch would be to (1) have a narrative component for the mission you're undertaking - including the boss - and, (2) build up the dungeon crawler experience that DA:MP was going for. As I said before, if BioWare wanted to do multiplayer, its not like it couldn't come down the line after the game launched. You’re thinking of Spartan Ops, not Warzone. Warzone was in Halo 5 where it was Red vs Blue vs AI. I was second guessing that name in my head because something felt off. Thanks for the correction. But yeah, I think that would be a good alternative to multiplayer for the Dragon Age series.
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Post by wittand25 on Feb 26, 2021 19:04:16 GMT
Great news.
I never cared for multiplayer and games as service is the wrong approach for a franchise like Dragon Age. It is a shame that so much time and effort was wasted moving in the wrong direction until now.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 26, 2021 19:30:07 GMT
Right, as I suspected, you didn't pass on them, so you passing on DA4 because "No Multiplayer" is total nonsense. Indeed, though Bioware has over the years changed as a studio - and so have I as a gamer - drifting towards multiplayer games. Bioware has created and catered for a small yet passionate, dedicated and hardcore multiplayer community which I have been part of. If they turn their back to that community, what is that community supposed to do? Still hype up and buy their games? Well, not me. I will pass it. I understand you might have your reasons to look forward to a new Dragon Age game, good for you. Most of the so called "Bioware fans" should be on the same boat, though not all. Guess it's up to them just as i chose after not to hype or buy their non SP Anthem, apart from viewing it on youtube to understand its flaws. I'm assuming that some of that community also appreciate the SP storytelling.
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 26, 2021 19:35:12 GMT
Right, as I suspected, you didn't pass on them, so you passing on DA4 because "No Multiplayer" is total nonsense. Indeed, though Bioware has over the years changed as a studio - and so have I as a gamer - drifting towards multiplayer games. Bioware has created and catered for a small yet passionate, dedicated and hardcore multiplayer community which I have been part of. If they turn their back to that community, what is that community supposed to do? Still hype up and buy their games? Well, not me. I will pass it. I understand you might have your reasons to look forward to a new Dragon Age game, good for you. Most of the so called "Bioware fans" should be on the same boat, though not all. Yeah, let's not bash MP folk, people.
BioWare did something unique and ambitious with their last 4 titles, ofcourse there will be a passionate fans about multiplayer. Sure there were issues, but don't punch down your fellow fans. Internet is toxic enough place already.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 26, 2021 19:42:44 GMT
I never really liked the new protagonist every game thing anyway. I always get attached to characters in a story and when the story continues focusing on another character I feel a lot less interested for a bit and have to work my interest back up. They sort of bound themselves to a new PC each game from the beginning - by allowing the US as an option for the warden. They even had to give players an alternate PC for the expansion ( Awakening). So - a continuing PC was pretty much a non-starter for DA. I don’t agree. Just because one game does something doesn’t mean all games in the franchise have to. Since Halo is being discussed, look at that series. ODST, Reach (a fan favorite), Wars 1 and 2, all had protagonists who weren’t Master Chief and are regarded well. Also what do you mean with Ryder’s clever language?
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 26, 2021 20:41:44 GMT
They sort of bound themselves to a new PC each game from the beginning - by allowing the US as an option for the warden. They even had to give players an alternate PC for the expansion ( Awakening). So - a continuing PC was pretty much a non-starter for DA. I don’t agree. Just because one game does something doesn’t mean all games in the franchise have to. Yet that is what they chose to do, and they've always been very clear about that. They started that pattern when they started the franchise. Not by me. I've no familiarity with or interest in the series. Many people made many complaints about Ryder "joking". I've always maintained that Ryder's dialogue wasn't jokes, but use of some perhaps colloquial, clever language.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 26, 2021 20:56:27 GMT
Isn't there a plethora of multiplayer games players can swarm to as opposed to quality SP games which are increasingly more difficult to find? Seems to me it is easier to appease MP players because all you generally have to do is give them cool weapons and a plot of land or some warehouses filled with obstacles to hide/maneuver around with a simple goal to achieve and they knock themselves out for hours. R e p e t i t i o n y a y Personally, I find that this news couldn't have been better received because SP games DO require so much more time and energy on the devs part to be successful. That's obviously not all it takes, or else Anthem would have done better. Multiplayer games (successful ones, anyway) make regular changes and updates, specifically to keep the core loop engaging and keep players playing. From my perspective, there's hardly a lack of single player games either. If one's only requirement is that a game be single player-only, there's a lot of options. None of the articles I've found on this recent development have said or even implied that the resources from MP are now being given to the SP campaign, so personally, I don't see how it makes a difference. Publishers don't just give developers a big pile of money and say "do whatever, but make sure it has mp", resources are specifically allocated for mp. If BioWare isn't doing mp anymore, in all likelihood, EA has taken back those resources (that weren't already spent), and moved the people working on mp to something else that isn't Dragon Age at all. But hey, if anyone can find me a source that says otherwise...
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Post by jamierose95 on Feb 26, 2021 21:09:30 GMT
People like to blame EA on bioware failures. If bioware can stick to straight forward plan instead of changing it they wouldn't be in a mess. STICK TO YOUR PLAN STOP CHANGING IT!! Well, that's just it. BioWare would have the option of sticking to their plans if EA didn't force them to alter them all the time. It's safe to conclude that there's some poor decision making on EA's part when the multiple creative studios they buy all end up the same way: a mess. I am sorry did EA give 5 years of development on Andromeda and 7 years on Anthem. So it's not EA fault it's down to Bioware management
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 26, 2021 21:35:35 GMT
I don’t agree. Just because one game does something doesn’t mean all games in the franchise have to. Yet that is what they chose to do, and they've always been very clear about that. They started that pattern when they started the franchise. Not by me. I've no familiarity with or interest in the series. Many people made many complaints about Ryder "joking". I've always maintained that Ryder's dialogue wasn't jokes, but use of some perhaps colloquial, clever language. I know. Just saying just because they started a series that way doesn’t mean they need to continue that pattern. Then look at any other series that you do like. Ah okay. Thank you for clarifying.
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Post by ClarkKent on Feb 26, 2021 21:42:14 GMT
Isn't there a plethora of multiplayer games players can swarm to as opposed to quality SP games which are increasingly more difficult to find? Seems to me it is easier to appease MP players because all you generally have to do is give them cool weapons and a plot of land or some warehouses filled with obstacles to hide/maneuver around with a simple goal to achieve and they knock themselves out for hours. R e p e t i t i o n y a y Personally, I find that this news couldn't have been better received because SP games DO require so much more time and energy on the devs part to be successful. Exactly. You hardly need a DA4 multiplayer when there's so many co-op bullshit games out there already. Can't you guys play Avengers or Rainbow Six or something?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 26, 2021 21:44:15 GMT
Isn't there a plethora of multiplayer games players can swarm to as opposed to quality SP games which are increasingly more difficult to find? Seems to me it is easier to appease MP players because all you generally have to do is give them cool weapons and a plot of land or some warehouses filled with obstacles to hide/maneuver around with a simple goal to achieve and they knock themselves out for hours. R e p e t i t i o n y a y Personally, I find that this news couldn't have been better received because SP games DO require so much more time and energy on the devs part to be successful. Exactly. You hardly need a DA4 multiplayer when there's so many co-op bullshit games out there already. Can't you guys play Avengers or Rainbow Six or something? Can't you just play Dragon Quest 11 or Control or FF7 Remake? Or Persona 5 Royal or Bravely Default 2 or the Mass Effect Remaster? See how that argument is a non-starter? Also, I'll say it again: REMOVING MULTIPLAYER DOESN'T MEAN ANY MORE EFFORT OR RESOURCES ARE GOING TO SINGLE PLAYER. All that has *actually happened*, as far as I can tell, is that EA has lowered its expectations for a developer who has recently underperformed.
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Post by ClarkKent on Feb 26, 2021 21:53:30 GMT
Exactly. You hardly need a DA4 multiplayer when there's so many co-op bullshit games out there already. Can't you guys play Avengers or Rainbow Six or something? Can't you just play Dragon Quest 11 or Control or FF7 Remake? Or Persona 5 Royal or Bravely Default 2 or the Mass Effect Remaster? See how that argument is a non-starter? Also, I'll say it again: REMOVING MULTIPLAYER DOESN'T MEAN ANY MORE EFFORT OR RESOURCES ARE GOING TO SINGLE PLAYER. Do you not think the gameplay of DAI and MEA was changed to accommodate multiplayer? No one's asking for a Fall Guys single player campaign. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a DA4 that isn't tainted with the stench of a terrible multiplayer mode.
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Post by river82 on Feb 26, 2021 21:54:07 GMT
If multiplayer was going to be as prominent as it seemed like it was then I'm glad it's gone. The quote from those sources seems like DA4 was going to revolve around the multiplayer which would have been a gamekiller for me. I have little confidence Bioware can pull that off.
Live service focused on the single player aspect? Sure, I don't mind that.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 26, 2021 22:02:04 GMT
Can't you just play Dragon Quest 11 or Control or FF7 Remake? Or Persona 5 Royal or Bravely Default 2 or the Mass Effect Remaster? See how that argument is a non-starter? Also, I'll say it again: REMOVING MULTIPLAYER DOESN'T MEAN ANY MORE EFFORT OR RESOURCES ARE GOING TO SINGLE PLAYER. Do you not think the gameplay of DAI and MEA was changed to accommodate multiplayer? No one's asking for a Fall Guys single player campaign. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a DA4 that isn't tainted with the stench of a terrible multiplayer mode. I don't consider the gameplay of DAI or MEA to be different from their predecessors in any meaningful way, but that's not my point. Neither is the supposed quality of the multiplayer modes. You wouldn't accept *any* single-player game as a substitute for DA4 (and it's not as if there aren't any), so why should people who want MP just play another game instead? Clearly there were things particular to DAI MP that they enjoyed, just like you have your reasons for wanting more Dragon Age, instead of satisfying yourself with AC Valhalla or Werewolf: The Apocalypse or any number of other SP games I could name that came out in the past two years.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 26, 2021 22:03:33 GMT
If multiplayer was going to be as prominent as it seemed like it was then I'm glad it's gone. The quote from those sources seems like DA4 was going to revolve around the multiplayer which would have been a gamekiller for me. I have little confidence Bioware can pull that off. Live service focused on the single player aspect? Sure, I don't mind that.What would that even look like? Achievements is all I can think of.. Maybe cloud saves.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 26, 2021 22:04:53 GMT
And not for nothing, but I would love the option to play Fall Guys offline with friends or by myself.
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Post by river82 on Feb 26, 2021 22:06:09 GMT
If multiplayer was going to be as prominent as it seemed like it was then I'm glad it's gone. The quote from those sources seems like DA4 was going to revolve around the multiplayer which would have been a gamekiller for me. I have little confidence Bioware can pull that off. Live service focused on the single player aspect? Sure, I don't mind that.What would that even look like? Achievements is all I can think of.. Maybe cloud saves. AC odyssey does it. Basically any situation where a game is updated "live". So the world can be updated for weeklies, the world can be updated for an event that suddenly occurs that you have to deal with. To me, live services just mean the world can be updated live which makes much smaller events like dailies or weeklies possible whereas before they had to package it all into a big DLC pack and things.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 26, 2021 22:08:16 GMT
If multiplayer was going to be as prominent as it seemed like it was then I'm glad it's gone. The quote from those sources seems like DA4 was going to revolve around the multiplayer which would have been a gamekiller for me. I have little confidence Bioware can pull that off. Live service focused on the single player aspect? Sure, I don't mind that.What would that even look like? Achievements is all I can think of.. Maybe cloud saves. Daily quests, special events around holiday seasons, regular releases of cosmetic packs, a special store that uses premium currency, potentially staggered releases of campaign or side-story 'chapters', or even new companions. Don't need to imagine it, this is all stuff lots of games already do.
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