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Post by eternalambiguity on Mar 30, 2021 22:29:34 GMT
May as well just canonize default Soldier Broshep Liaramancer making all the Paragon choices and choosing Synthesis, since that's obviously the way I was supposed to play the game. I don't think Liara fits in the same way Morrigan did (mainly thematically), but there's obviously a difference between "We fight or we die, that's the plan" dumb brutes whose only usefulness is to shoot things and an inquisitive character who since the second game of their series has been set up as one of the most powerful (politically or otherwise) people in their universe. If any character was going to play Morrigan's role, it would be Liara, and that's been true since ME2.
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Post by Radec on Mar 30, 2021 23:27:44 GMT
May as well just canonize default Soldier Broshep Liaramancer making all the Paragon choices and choosing Synthesis, since that's obviously the way I was supposed to play the game. I don't think Liara fits in the same way Morrigan did (mainly thematically), but there's obviously a difference between "We fight or we die, that's the plan" dumb brutes whose only usefulness is to shoot things and an inquisitive character who since the second game of their series has been set up as one of the most powerful (politically or otherwise) people in their universe. If any character was going to play Morrigan's role, it would be Liara, and that's been true since ME2. So inquisitive she obstinately denies the asari gods were Protheans about 87 times, even though all the statues look exactly like Javik and dude is right in the room telling her the whole history and that she's being a pig headed retard. Plenty of dipshittery to go around TBH I'd prefer Grunt. He reads Hemingway so he's obviously a smart guy, and he didn't have a big enough part in ME3 to ever be made to look like a moron by bad writing. headbutt > embrace eternity or whatever
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 31, 2021 0:00:40 GMT
Well, there’s no way this game can exist without ignoring a lot of player choices. Choosing between high to low EMS would be impossible lol Obviously, but little things like the status of quantum characters in 600+ years would be easy to ignore. They just chose to canonize her survival (despite not happening in half of playthroughs) because fanservice. There's no more reason for her to be showing up in a trailer than Grunt but fat chance we ever see him. May as well just canonize default Soldier Broshep Liaramancer making all the Paragon choices and choosing Synthesis, since that's obviously the way I was supposed to play the game. Beyond the simple fact that BioWare’s inevitably going to have to do some sort of canonization to make a Milky Way-based game function in a future setting, I’m not sure what the complaint is. Regardless of whichever world state BioWare inevitably rolls with, it stands to reason that they would choose the optimal version of that particular ending, in which case it’s impossible for her to die.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Mar 31, 2021 1:07:59 GMT
I don't think Liara fits in the same way Morrigan did (mainly thematically), but there's obviously a difference between "We fight or we die, that's the plan" dumb brutes whose only usefulness is to shoot things and an inquisitive character who since the second game of their series has been set up as one of the most powerful (politically or otherwise) people in their universe. If any character was going to play Morrigan's role, it would be Liara, and that's been true since ME2. So inquisitive she obstinately denies the asari gods were Protheans about 87 times, even though all the statues look exactly like Javik and dude is right in the room telling her the whole history and that she's being a pig headed retard. Plenty of dipshittery to go around TBH I'd prefer Grunt. He reads Hemingway so he's obviously a smart guy, and he didn't have a big enough part in ME3 to ever be made to look like a moron by bad writing. headbutt > embrace eternity or whatever This doesn't even make sense, you're criticizing her for an existential crisis and not her character. It's obvious you don't like her, but it's not even relevant. It's possible to be inquisitive and struggle with losing your entire worldview (I can confirm).
And Grunt is also another character whose "arc" only involves him being a, well, grunt who shoots things. He's not a shadowy figure who has a semi-valid reason for knowing about and being involved in anything that happens at a global/galactic/universal? scale.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 31, 2021 4:50:35 GMT
Obviously, but little things like the status of quantum characters in 600+ years would be easy to ignore. They just chose to canonize her survival (despite not happening in half of playthroughs) because fanservice. There's no more reason for her to be showing up in a trailer than Grunt but fat chance we ever see him. May as well just canonize default Soldier Broshep Liaramancer making all the Paragon choices and choosing Synthesis, since that's obviously the way I was supposed to play the game. Beyond the simple fact that BioWare’s inevitably going to have to do some sort of canonization to make a Milky Way-based game function in a future setting, I’m not sure what the complaint is. Regardless of whichever world state BioWare inevitably rolls with, it stands to reason that they would choose the optimal version of that particular ending, in which case it’s impossible for her to die. That is one of the reasons why I am doubtful that its going to do anything with the areas we know if we go back to The Milky Way so anything that might have happened before is just ignored. So we might go back to The Milky Way, but it comes across just like Andromeda for there won't be the familiarity with it after all people kept saying we only visited 1% of the Milky Way in the first three games. So the majority of the game takes place in two or three backwater systems that the Jardaans used to keep watch over us. While having a planet that has some gateway directly to Meridian that is only just found as the game starts and because its so powerful we have to abandon it to gather resources to reclaim it during the final mission.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 31, 2021 4:57:17 GMT
Beyond the simple fact that BioWare’s inevitably going to have to do some sort of canonization to make a Milky Way-based game function in a future setting, I’m not sure what the complaint is. Regardless of whichever world state BioWare inevitably rolls with, it stands to reason that they would choose the optimal version of that particular ending, in which case it’s impossible for her to die. That is one of the reasons why I am doubtful that its going to do anything with the areas we know if we go back to The Milky Way so anything that might have happened before is just ignored. So we might go back to The Milky Way, but it comes across just like Andromeda for there won't be the familiarity with it after all people kept saying we only visited 1% of the Milky Way in the first three games. So the majority of the game takes place in two or three backwater systems that the Jardaans used to keep watch over us. While having a planet that has some gateway directly to Meridian that is only just found as the game starts and because its so powerful we have to abandon it to gather resources to reclaim it during the final mission. Not necessarily. The only consistent location in the setting is the Citadel, and that gets rebuilt in a high EMS ending anyway. Of course, this might mean having to set the game way off in the future to have time for it to be rebuilt, but so be it. With the exception of the Omega DLC and the Tuchanka missions, we never really return to other familiar places in any of the games anyway, other than the Citadel itself.
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Post by Radec on Mar 31, 2021 12:04:01 GMT
So inquisitive she obstinately denies the asari gods were Protheans about 87 times, even though all the statues look exactly like Javik and dude is right in the room telling her the whole history and that she's being a pig headed retard. Plenty of dipshittery to go around TBH I'd prefer Grunt. He reads Hemingway so he's obviously a smart guy, and he didn't have a big enough part in ME3 to ever be made to look like a moron by bad writing. headbutt > embrace eternity or whatever This doesn't even make sense, you're criticizing her for an existential crisis and not her character. It's obvious you don't like her, but it's not even relevant. It's possible to be inquisitive and struggle with losing your entire worldview (I can confirm).
And Grunt is also another character whose "arc" only involves him being a, well, grunt who shoots things. He's not a shadowy figure who has a semi-valid reason for knowing about and being involved in anything that happens at a global/galactic/universal? scale.
Lmao existential crisis. Even supposed meathead James figures out what's going on if you bring him. She's being a 31 IQ obstinate fool that whole part of the story, and needed to be slapped, also for the pithy "Alliance should spring for air support" after her retard species has done nothing to help in the war up to this point. I don't remember any other character doing something so ridiculous. She shouldn't be on the ship if her "character" is so weak willed that she has a self indulgent pity party like that. Ironically, Grunt's arc that you're insulting includes an actual, believable existential crisis resulting from his creation as a tool with a purpose, and his rejection of it. Better character in general, actually is written consistently (never goes from soldier to the top business CEO in the galaxy in 2 years or some goofy shit) will call you out if you disagree with his worldview and ideology rather than just fawn over you no matter what, and doesn't simply exist as a skeevy juvenile virgin "love me senpai" fantasy for neckbeards. Running a special forces company he has just as much reason to be investigating something for his government as the asari. His ME3 appearance involves investigating the re-emergence of the Rachni, something the incompetent Shadow Broker didn't even know about for whatever reason. So yeah, unironically I'd rather have him. Has more places to go and more interesting things to say.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 31, 2021 12:09:28 GMT
That is one of the reasons why I am doubtful that its going to do anything with the areas we know if we go back to The Milky Way so anything that might have happened before is just ignored. So we might go back to The Milky Way, but it comes across just like Andromeda for there won't be the familiarity with it after all people kept saying we only visited 1% of the Milky Way in the first three games. So the majority of the game takes place in two or three backwater systems that the Jardaans used to keep watch over us. While having a planet that has some gateway directly to Meridian that is only just found as the game starts and because its so powerful we have to abandon it to gather resources to reclaim it during the final mission. Not necessarily. The only consistent location in the setting is the Citadel, and that gets rebuilt in a high EMS ending anyway. Of course, this might mean having to set the game way off in the future to have time for it to be rebuilt, but so be it. With the exception of the Omega DLC and the Tuchanka missions, we never really return to other familiar places in any of the games anyway, other than the Citadel itself. Being honest that is why I don't fully understand the intense desire to return to The Milky Way. They could have just scratched out Andromeda in the writers room and written in "distant part of The Milky Way" and it would have been the same as all the prior games minus The Citadel of course. Outside of a mission or two the majority of NPCs you visit are humans so its not even that was a big change. Now if people are wanting the squad to return that is another thing, but that isn't what the messaging of the complaints is coming across to me especially even here when there seems to be a divide for if Liara returns or not. Which overall is pretty common for a BioWare title, there are passionate people on both sides of the argument. Its just that I don't see what makes The Milky Way better then Andromeda aside from "I liked the Milky Way games better, so go do that". If that is the case I just don't think BioWare could make a game good based on that alone.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 31, 2021 12:42:13 GMT
Not necessarily. The only consistent location in the setting is the Citadel, and that gets rebuilt in a high EMS ending anyway. Of course, this might mean having to set the game way off in the future to have time for it to be rebuilt, but so be it. With the exception of the Omega DLC and the Tuchanka missions, we never really return to other familiar places in any of the games anyway, other than the Citadel itself. Being honest that is why I don't fully understand the intense desire to return to The Milky Way. They could have just scratched out Andromeda in the writers room and written in "distant part of The Milky Way" and it would have been the same as all the prior games minus The Citadel of course. Outside of a mission or two the majority of NPCs you visit are humans so its not even that was a big change. Now if people are wanting the squad to return that is another thing, but that isn't what the messaging of the complaints is coming across to me especially even here when there seems to be a divide for if Liara returns or not. Which overall is pretty common for a BioWare title, there are passionate people on both sides of the argument. Its just that I don't see what makes The Milky Way better then Andromeda aside from "I liked the Milky Way games better, so go do that". If that is the case I just don't think BioWare could make a game good based on that alone. I was accepting of going to Andromeda until they completely dropped the writing ball. Going to back to the universe which had much more acclaim seems to make sense to me(despite my worries about canonisation), rather than the most likely lose lose scenario of trying to reforge something appealing out of Andromeda.
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Post by Radec on Mar 31, 2021 12:52:20 GMT
Not necessarily. The only consistent location in the setting is the Citadel, and that gets rebuilt in a high EMS ending anyway. Of course, this might mean having to set the game way off in the future to have time for it to be rebuilt, but so be it. With the exception of the Omega DLC and the Tuchanka missions, we never really return to other familiar places in any of the games anyway, other than the Citadel itself. Being honest that is why I don't fully understand the intense desire to return to The Milky Way. Probably because it's a setting that had a lot of creatively designed worldbuilding and lore go into it over the course of several games, novels and other media, which the audience developed an emotional connection to because it managed to create a setting that felt lived in. Andromeda by contrast feels artificial because it kind of is. It exists for purposes outside the story (namely the reception of the ME3 endings) and not for its own creative reasons. Indeed just to exist it broke the fundamental lore of how FTL space travel in the setting was designed to work, which definitely doesn't help its setting's verisimilitude. Maybe Andromeda could be built to the same point as the MW given the same time and effort, but the part they showed us in the first installment wasn't actually interesting to most people (going by its general lukewarm reception) like ME1 was. If anything, it looked too much like a simplified low rent version of the setting we just threw in the trash (Nexus=Citadel, same major species in charge rehashing the same conflicts in a new galaxy), begging the question as to why we moved to it to restart the entire worldbuilding process from square one. Well, we know the answer to that why question. It's part of why Andromeda was and likely always will be largely rejected until the ending problem is addressed.
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 31, 2021 13:34:54 GMT
Andromeda is basically a lesser Milky Way. We brought some the major Milky Way races along - humans, turians, asari, salarian, krogan... but we left behind the quarians (didn't read the book), geth, drell, elcor, volus, hanar etc. Instead we got the angara and the kett (another angry carapaced race that kidnaps and transforms others, we didn't have that in a while). So most of Andromeda actually feels familiar instead of new because the Milky Way races outnumber the Andromeda races, but it also feels diminished because a lot of the Milky Way races stayed home and we didn't get anything exciting in return.
Now we could ship the missing Milky Way races over to Andromeda, but why? It would feel like a new galaxy in name only because most people we'd get to meet would be from the Milky Way then.
Returning to the Milky Way would be a richer setting with more races and more history to it. I personally hope that the Milky Way timeline won't be advanced over 600 years just to catch up with Andromeda and then get the interesting time of rebuilding after the reaper war as a mere codex entry. I'd rather play through that.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Mar 31, 2021 13:54:17 GMT
This doesn't even make sense, you're criticizing her for an existential crisis and not her character. It's obvious you don't like her, but it's not even relevant. It's possible to be inquisitive and struggle with losing your entire worldview (I can confirm).
And Grunt is also another character whose "arc" only involves him being a, well, grunt who shoots things. He's not a shadowy figure who has a semi-valid reason for knowing about and being involved in anything that happens at a global/galactic/universal? scale.
Lmao existential crisis. Even supposed meathead James figures out what's going on if you bring him. She's being a 31 IQ obstinate fool that whole part of the story, and needed to be slapped, also for the pithy "Alliance should spring for air support" after her retard species has done nothing to help in the war up to this point. I don't remember any other character doing something so ridiculous. She shouldn't be on the ship if her "character" is so weak willed that she has a self indulgent pity party like that. Ironically, Grunt's arc that you're insulting includes an actual, believable existential crisis resulting from his creation as a tool with a purpose, and his rejection of it. Better character in general, actually is written consistently (never goes from soldier to the top business CEO in the galaxy in 2 years or some goofy shit) will call you out if you disagree with his worldview and ideology rather than just fawn over you no matter what, and doesn't simply exist as a skeevy juvenile virgin "love me senpai" fantasy for neckbeards. Running a special forces company he has just as much reason to be investigating something for his government as the asari. His ME3 appearance involves investigating the re-emergence of the Rachni, something the incompetent Shadow Broker didn't even know about for whatever reason. So yeah, unironically I'd rather have him. Has more places to go and more interesting things to say. James' species origin isn't in question, so what does he have to do with anything? No one else is in the same spot as Liara is with that revelation. The closest would be Grunt, but as I mentioned his arc in terms of his actual role doesn't compare in any way whatsoever.
When I say "character" I'm not talking about mental fortitude or "strength of character" or anything like that, but the intrinsic qualities of her mind. She seeks out new information. She may have trouble accepting it in really specific scenarios as it relates to her race, but she's still an inquisitive person. She's still a shadowy figure with a lot of power and information who can justifiably be anywhere at any time, and involved in any plot, and she's been pivoted towards that role since ME2.
DA Inquisition has Morrigan acting childishly when interacting with her mother but that does not detract from her role in the overall series (and arguably better humanizes her).
Seriously, step outside your bias for a moment and just think about how she's been set up. No one else fits (again, IF they're going for the Morrigan thing which isn't a guarantee).
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 31, 2021 14:24:47 GMT
The irony is that while lore and history is critical to establish a believable setting, BioWare’s basically facing the same exact issue they would with the alternative. None of it will mean anything unless they can pull together a story that’s more than just interesting, along with new characters to carry it.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 31, 2021 14:25:38 GMT
I'm not a particular fan of Liara but at this point after reading all the hate non stop from people who have gone totally irrational about it I want her in every scene and conversation, I want her to show up in a romance scene just to cock block the protagonist. Yeah I nevre minded Liara personally in fact she's one o fmy favourites along with Garrus and Tali but for me she and the rest of them have had their time in the spotlight now. I don't feel the need of moer of her and if I do I'm quite happy to just boot up and play the trilogy again. Because whjen I do wantto spend moer time with them that's what I do.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 31, 2021 16:22:12 GMT
Andromeda is basically a lesser Milky Way. We brought some the major Milky Way races along - humans, turians, asari, salarian, krogan... but we left behind the quarians (didn't read the book), geth, drell, elcor, volus, hanar etc. Instead we got the angara and the kett (another angry carapaced race that kidnaps and transforms others, we didn't have that in a while). So most of Andromeda actually feels familiar instead of new because the Milky Way races outnumber the Andromeda races, but it also feels diminished because a lot of the Milky Way races stayed home and we didn't get anything exciting in return. Now we could ship the missing Milky Way races over to Andromeda, but why? It would feel like a new galaxy in name only because most people we'd get to meet would be from the Milky Way then. Returning to the Milky Way would be a richer setting with more races and more history to it. I personally hope that the Milky Way timeline won't be advanced over 600 years just to catch up with Andromeda and then get the interesting time of rebuilding after the reaper war as a mere codex entry. I'd rather play through that. Because Shepard had to make a galaxy altering decision at the end and accelerating it can help BioWare avoid trying to address them. With a 600 year step, it’ll be easier for them to start from a clean state while still acknowledging whatever choice Shep has made. Besides Andromeda still has mysteries that needs to be addressed.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 31, 2021 17:16:32 GMT
Andromeda is basically a lesser Milky Way. We brought some the major Milky Way races along - humans, turians, asari, salarian, krogan... but we left behind the quarians (didn't read the book), geth, drell, elcor, volus, hanar etc. Instead we got the angara and the kett (another angry carapaced race that kidnaps and transforms others, we didn't have that in a while). So most of Andromeda actually feels familiar instead of new because the Milky Way races outnumber the Andromeda races, but it also feels diminished because a lot of the Milky Way races stayed home and we didn't get anything exciting in return. Now we could ship the missing Milky Way races over to Andromeda, but why? It would feel like a new galaxy in name only because most people we'd get to meet would be from the Milky Way then. Returning to the Milky Way would be a richer setting with more races and more history to it. I personally hope that the Milky Way timeline won't be advanced over 600 years just to catch up with Andromeda and then get the interesting time of rebuilding after the reaper war as a mere codex entry. I'd rather play through that. The problem as I see is that going back to the Milky Way is exactly the same thing that you describe Andromeda to be. I don't see how it will improve the story or concepts when they never carried forward before aside from a few basics that were "solved" in Mass Effect 3. What defined the Milky Way for me was the things like the Quarian/Geth conflict or the Genophage which both were wrapped up in ME3 and if they continue I would expect them to become canon so for those that didn't pick the canon choice BioWare makes it would feel like going to Andromeda all over again. So that is where my thinking is that Andromeda or Milky Way its going to have the same problems and those expecting it would be different aren't going to get what I think they would expect.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 31, 2021 17:58:33 GMT
The problem as I see is that going back to the Milky Way is exactly the same thing that you describe Andromeda to be. I don't see how it will improve the story or concepts when they never carried forward before aside from a few basics that were "solved" in Mass Effect 3. What defined the Milky Way for me was the things like the Quarian/Geth conflict or the Genophage which both were wrapped up in ME3 and if they continue I would expect them to become canon so for those that didn't pick the canon choice BioWare makes it would feel like going to Andromeda all over again. So that is where my thinking is that Andromeda or Milky Way its going to have the same problems and those expecting it would be different aren't going to get what I think they would expect. I absolutely agree. Which is why the franchise would be better off left dead, as there isn't anything really eye catching for the audience to go forward with. I know that Andromeda left a lot of sequel bait ideas and that they could be executed competently, but the same company blew that potential for the MET with ME3 and that had far better setups than Andromeda did and, as the Disney Star Wars sequels taught us, set ups are nothing without a guarantee of a pay off. And there's no guarantee right now. There's a far greater guarantee that Bioware will set up more stuff in their next game, to consolidate for the ones they dropped in the previous one, or, more likely, try to finitely wrap up previous ones, with a lot of subversion included, due to the fact that whatever game comes next will most likely not get a follow up. In DLC or otherwise. Because Bioware is now known for not delivering and canceling post launch game support. Even if I do like the game they make, I have zero interest to be blue balled. But people were excited about the Will Continue trailer. So what was it that got the blood of ME fans pumping again?
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 31, 2021 18:03:14 GMT
Andromeda is basically a lesser Milky Way. We brought some the major Milky Way races along - humans, turians, asari, salarian, krogan... but we left behind the quarians (didn't read the book), geth, drell, elcor, volus, hanar etc. Instead we got the angara and the kett (another angry carapaced race that kidnaps and transforms others, we didn't have that in a while). So most of Andromeda actually feels familiar instead of new because the Milky Way races outnumber the Andromeda races, but it also feels diminished because a lot of the Milky Way races stayed home and we didn't get anything exciting in return. Now we could ship the missing Milky Way races over to Andromeda, but why? It would feel like a new galaxy in name only because most people we'd get to meet would be from the Milky Way then. Returning to the Milky Way would be a richer setting with more races and more history to it. I personally hope that the Milky Way timeline won't be advanced over 600 years just to catch up with Andromeda and then get the interesting time of rebuilding after the reaper war as a mere codex entry. I'd rather play through that. The problem as I see is that going back to the Milky Way is exactly the same thing that you describe Andromeda to be. I don't see how it will improve the story or concepts when they never carried forward before aside from a few basics that were "solved" in Mass Effect 3. What defined the Milky Way for me was the things like the Quarian/Geth conflict or the Genophage which both were wrapped up in ME3 and if they continue I would expect them to become canon so for those that didn't pick the canon choice BioWare makes it would feel like going to Andromeda all over again. So that is where my thinking is that Andromeda or Milky Way its going to have the same problems and those expecting it would be different aren't going to get what I think they would expect. The Milky Way has a much richer history to build on and a greater variety of races. Andromeda has the angara, who existed for 80 years or so, and the kett, who give me strong "budget collectors" vibes. The Jardaan are either still out there or not, and I don't remember anything interesting about them. There's the Mom Ryder situation and the Jien Garson murder, but that's just material for two side quests. They'd have to come up with something new for Andromeda just like they would for the Milky Way. Rebuilding from a devastating war just seems like a more interesting setting to me than the few loose ends of Andromeda. But that's just my personal preference. I never connected with the Andromeda setting or MEA's characters, so I have very little motivation to revisit the place.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 31, 2021 18:15:36 GMT
Andromeda is basically a lesser Milky Way. We brought some the major Milky Way races along - humans, turians, asari, salarian, krogan... but we left behind the quarians (didn't read the book), geth, drell, elcor, volus, hanar etc. Instead we got the angara and the kett (another angry carapaced race that kidnaps and transforms others, we didn't have that in a while). So most of Andromeda actually feels familiar instead of new because the Milky Way races outnumber the Andromeda races, but it also feels diminished because a lot of the Milky Way races stayed home and we didn't get anything exciting in return. Now we could ship the missing Milky Way races over to Andromeda, but why? It would feel like a new galaxy in name only because most people we'd get to meet would be from the Milky Way then. Returning to the Milky Way would be a richer setting with more races and more history to it. I personally hope that the Milky Way timeline won't be advanced over 600 years just to catch up with Andromeda and then get the interesting time of rebuilding after the reaper war as a mere codex entry. I'd rather play through that.
1) It is stated in MEA the game that quarians, elcor, volus, hanar, drell, and other races were on the quarian ark the book just fleshed out what happened to them.
2) Regardless of trying to sync up with MEA BioWare would most certainly have to do a massive time jump due for a game set in MWG after the Reaper War to the endings of ME3 just to avoid dealing with the various outcomes that would be best resolved as "Legendary Commander Shepard saved the galaxy by making the Crucible fire a R/B/G energy beam and we've since rebuilt." And not to mention the outcomes to the quarian/geth war, the krogan genophage, the fate of the rachni, and etc. Which makes a story even more of a mess and a massive time jump would be the ONLY way to not have to spend an entire game explaining what happened to everything and everybody like ME1.
3) Andromeda has plenty of secrets and plots that need answering like: who are/were the Opposition to the Jaardan and did they create the Scourge and if so why? Who are or were the Jaardan and why did they create the angara? Who created the remnant and why? There are most certainly more alien life in the Andromeda galaxy beyond the kett and the angara. That is not including who's the benefactor, who killed Garson, the quarian ark, the fate of the Ryders' mother, and the future of A.I. itself, and more.
The only post-ME3 MWG story would be cleaning up after the Reaper War which would be really be a post-holocaust story and honestly while that could be great in other media other than a video game, because IMHO stories like that are better suited to TV, movies, comics, novels, and etc because no video game company has the skill to handle a post-holocaust story and few in other media have done it well. So unless BioWare is going to hire Ronland D. Moore (who has handled this kind of material twice Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and the reboot of Battlestar Galatica) to be the head writer of the new game (which isn't going to happen because Moore is tied up with a TV show on Apple+) and the only other writer is Babylon 5 creator JMS who is busy with other projects and I doubt BioWare and/or EA would want to pay him what he wants.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 31, 2021 18:16:11 GMT
The problem as I see is that going back to the Milky Way is exactly the same thing that you describe Andromeda to be. I don't see how it will improve the story or concepts when they never carried forward before aside from a few basics that were "solved" in Mass Effect 3. What defined the Milky Way for me was the things like the Quarian/Geth conflict or the Genophage which both were wrapped up in ME3 and if they continue I would expect them to become canon so for those that didn't pick the canon choice BioWare makes it would feel like going to Andromeda all over again. So that is where my thinking is that Andromeda or Milky Way its going to have the same problems and those expecting it would be different aren't going to get what I think they would expect. The Milky Way has a much richer history to build on and a greater variety of races. Andromeda has the angara, who existed for 80 years or so, and the kett, who give me strong "budget collectors" vibes. The Jardaan are either still out there or not, and I don't remember anything interesting about them. There's the Mom Ryder situation and the Jien Garson murder, but that's just material for two side quests. They'd have to come up with something new for Andromeda just like they would for the Milky Way. Rebuilding from a devastating war just seems like a more interesting setting to me than the few loose ends of Andromeda. But that's just my personal preference. I never connected with the Andromeda setting or MEA's characters, so I have very little motivation to revisit the place. Yeah i really idn't like anything about the writing of MEA. One thing that particularly annoyed me was the decision to get rid of the only non humanoid races(dumping them on another ark).
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 31, 2021 18:23:21 GMT
) Andromeda has plenty of secrets and plots that need answering like: who are/were the Opposition to the Jaardan and did they create the Scourge and if so why? Who are or were the Jaardan and why did they create the angara? Who created the remnant and why? There are most certainly more alien life in the Andromeda galaxy beyond the kett and the angara. That is not including who's the benefactor, who killed Garson, the quarian ark, the fate of the Ryders' mother, and the future of A.I. itself, and more. None of these are guaranteed to have any satisfying outcome, though. All these are nothing. The promise that they might be satisfying, especially from modern Bioware varies from flimsy to wishful. If they don't relegate those to further sequel bait.
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Post by biggydx on Mar 31, 2021 18:33:22 GMT
Seems to me the issue that most people have here has less to do with the setting (at least on its face), but more to do with a lack of confidence in BioWares narrative/storytelling ability; in recent years.
I honestly dont know how I particularly feel about the prospects of a direct sequel to the OT or Andromeda. We dont even know the timeline for this next game.
My best guess is that BioWare likely knows that a majority of players wont want to star as Ryder again, but I imagine they'll try to play lip service to the Andromeda arc of the franchise - somehow - to appease that fanbase. To what end, I dont know. BioWare will likely leverage some of the old cast from the OT (Liara, Aria, Grunt, maybe Javik) so people who liked the OT feel more comfortable. Outside of that, idk where this games going to go. Its pretty clear some groups are going to be disappointed as fuck though lol.
The big bad in the Andromeda arc were the Kett, which weren't all that memorable to me tbh. I'd hate to think that we'd have to fight another Galaxy conquering entity again. I'm much more inclined to want a more centralized conflict. One in which the galaxy itself may tear itself apart due to the fallout of the Reaper War.
From a lore standpoint, we at least know that there are other species that are subjugated by the Kett, so theres room for other species to showcase; including those in our own galaxy.
One takeaway that I think people need to consider is that EA didnt even want to continue support for Andromeda. They gave the game 6 months before not only discontinuing its updates, but also closing the studio that made it. The person at BioWare, who goes to sell ME5 to EA, is likely going to receive pushback on the idea of wanting to do a direct sequel to a game that had been highly criticized. This in on top of said publisher cutting off support for its prequel.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 31, 2021 18:38:43 GMT
) Andromeda has plenty of secrets and plots that need answering like: who are/were the Opposition to the Jaardan and did they create the Scourge and if so why? Who are or were the Jaardan and why did they create the angara? Who created the remnant and why? There are most certainly more alien life in the Andromeda galaxy beyond the kett and the angara. That is not including who's the benefactor, who killed Garson, the quarian ark, the fate of the Ryders' mother, and the future of A.I. itself, and more. None of these are guaranteed to have any satisfying outcome, though. All these are nothing. The promise that they might be satisfying, especially from modern Bioware varies from flimsy to wishful. If they don't relegate those to further sequel bait. theres no gurantee that anything will be satisfying... And pretty much everything has 'sequel bait'
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 31, 2021 18:54:59 GMT
theres no gurantee that anything will be satisfying... And pretty much everything has 'sequel bait' Actually, that's not true. For example, there's a difference between selling a comic book with Thor, to selling a comic book about Thor, who is actually Thor's 4'9" granddaughter, to Hammer Dude, who is some guy who thinks he is Thor. One of these is guaranteed to be a better time than the other two. People will buy Thor, the real Thor, over the other Thors, given the option. There are guarantees. I am a lot more invested in Thor and I am a lot more likely to enjoy a bad Thor comic, to a mediocre "Thor, the granddaughter of Thor", or a Hammer Dude comic. Even if all these are Thor branded comic books.
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Mar 31, 2021 19:25:37 GMT
Seems to me the issue that most people have here has less to do with the setting (at least on its face), but more to do with a lack of confidence in BioWares narrative/storytelling ability; in recent years. Maybe. I think people want to push that to diminish the value of the MW. Sure, we may get 100% new places in ME5 but in the MW each of these things will have a established lore that has meaning. You go to an Asari world and see X it means something, you go to something beyond the veil it means something etc. They had 3 games+ other material to establish that kind of stuff. MEA did very little setting building even compared to ME1 as they took the easy route, 90% of the game is empty because colonization, formerly empty sector of space.
The MW already has a setting built. This matters, its like how every time they reboot spiderman we get the same stupid origin story, but in movie two they can just focus on the story and not have to worry about introducing spiderman. Assuming equal writing levels I'll get more story in the MW and more background filler to set up a story in Andromeda.
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