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Post by smilesja on Mar 31, 2021 19:34:49 GMT
My best guess is that BioWare likely knows that a majority of players wont want to star as Ryder again, but I imagine they'll try to play lip service to the Andromeda arc of the franchise - somehow - to appease that fanbase. To what end, I dont know. BioWare will likely leverage some of the old cast from the OT (Liara, Aria, Grunt, maybe Javik) so people who liked the OT feel more comfortable. Outside of that, idk where this games going to go. Its pretty clear some groups are going to be disappointed as fuck though lol. If that happens then like I said multiple times, I won't buy the game. Stop with the tease and go all in, either combine the galaxies or not. This is actually a unique situation where Bioware could satisfy everyone but if you just anger Andromeda fans even more then they'll get a lot of pushback.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 31, 2021 20:45:41 GMT
Seems to me the issue that most people have here has less to do with the setting (at least on its face), but more to do with a lack of confidence in BioWares narrative/storytelling ability; in recent years. I honestly dont know how I particularly feel about the prospects of a direct sequel to the OT or Andromeda. We dont even know the timeline for this next game. My best guess is that BioWare likely knows that a majority of players wont want to star as Ryder again, but I imagine they'll try to play lip service to the Andromeda arc of the franchise - somehow - to appease that fanbase. To what end, I dont know. BioWare will likely leverage some of the old cast from the OT (Liara, Aria, Grunt, maybe Javik) so people who liked the OT feel more comfortable. Outside of that, idk where this games going to go. Its pretty clear some groups are going to be disappointed as fuck though lol. The big bad in the Andromeda arc were the Kett, which weren't all that memorable to me tbh. I'd hate to think that we'd have to fight another Galaxy conquering entity again. I'm much more inclined to want a more centralized conflict. One in which the galaxy itself may tear itself apart due to the fallout of the Reaper War. From a lore standpoint, we at least know that there are other species that are subjugated by the Kett, so theres room for other species to showcase; including those in our own galaxy. One takeaway that I think people need to consider is that EA didnt even want to continue support for Andromeda. They gave the game 6 months before not only discontinuing its updates, but also closing the studio that made it. The person at BioWare, who goes to sell ME5 to EA, is likely going to receive pushback on the idea of wanting to do a direct sequel to a game that had been highly criticized. This in on top of said publisher cutting off support for its prequel. We do not know what any majority feels about the games. What we have is about the same as having someone asking what a person's favorite sports team outside of their stadium thinks. For participating in online discussion is an active process and the majority don't want to bother and have better things to do. We do not know that the majority of people don't want to play Ryder again, we don't know if the majority want to stay in Andromeda, we just don't know. You can make all the guesses you want on how people feel based on Reddit or other forums but at best that is thousands of people participating and normally when people participate its about the negative and not positive. As far as EA not wanting to support Andromeda I think people need to realize that EA is a cold emotionless calculator that will make decisions that make them money. If Andromeda still had enough people playing after six months that when plugged into a calculator it made it look like they could make money releasing a DLC they would have. Even if it meant that they pulled people from other BioWare projects to do so. As far as the closure of BioWare Montreal I have my opinions that the studio was doomed long before release when they didn't replace the lead writer when he left the studio. Or when they had someone from Anthem (I forget his name) come to BioWare Montreal to finish the game's development. I personally don't care what BioWare does with the next game they could set it completely in the space between galaxies and if its good I will buy it. I think for me that is what a lot of people aren't taking into consideration for the people that buy games. The setting and characters from the past are nice, but how its done in the game that is currently being played is more important. The flaws in Andromeda was not the setting for me, but how the different elements were used. Now there is just as equal chance with all the concerns that people have for the next Mass Effect game that those exact same flaws are going to be in either galaxy. So my pondering as been as always will be how does just being in The Milky Way mean they will automatically overcome or have an easier time overcoming those flaws. I just don't see it, for I can see them making a good game in Andromeda work just as likely as one in The Milky Way and the same being true for games that don't work. There is more to these games the labels we recognize for if that is what made a game work I think Andromeda would have done better then what it did.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 31, 2021 20:58:06 GMT
My best guess is that BioWare likely knows that a majority of players wont want to star as Ryder again, but I imagine they'll try to play lip service to the Andromeda arc of the franchise - somehow - to appease that fanbase. To what end, I dont know. BioWare will likely leverage some of the old cast from the OT (Liara, Aria, Grunt, maybe Javik) so people who liked the OT feel more comfortable. Outside of that, idk where this games going to go. Its pretty clear some groups are going to be disappointed as fuck though lol. If that happens then like I said multiple times, I won't buy the game. Stop with the tease and go all in, either combine the galaxies or not. This is actually a unique situation where Bioware could satisfy everyone but if you just anger Andromeda fans even more then they'll get a lot of pushback. Exactly I don' tsee myself deoing so either if this happens as far as I'm concerned my relationship with Mas Effect will end with Andromeda if it does. B ythat I mean I won' tbe byuing any moer ME content
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 31, 2021 21:18:47 GMT
We do not know what any majority feels about the games. What we have is about the same as having someone asking what a person's favorite sports team outside of their stadium thinks. For participating in online discussion is an active process and the majority don't want to bother and have better things to do. We do not know that the majority of people don't want to play Ryder again, we don't know if the majority want to stay in Andromeda, we just don't know. You can make all the guesses you want on how people feel based on Reddit or other forums but at best that is thousands of people participating and normally when people participate its about the negative and not positive. As far as EA not wanting to support Andromeda I think people need to realize that EA is a cold emotionless calculator that will make decisions that make them money. If Andromeda still had enough people playing after six months that when plugged into a calculator it made it look like they could make money releasing a DLC they would have. Even if it meant that they pulled people from other BioWare projects to do so. As far as the closure of BioWare Montreal I have my opinions that the studio was doomed long before release when they didn't replace the lead writer when he left the studio. Or when they had someone from Anthem (I forget his name) come to BioWare Montreal to finish the game's development. I personally don't care what BioWare does with the next game they could set it completely in the space between galaxies and if its good I will buy it. I think for me that is what a lot of people aren't taking into consideration for the people that buy games. The setting and characters from the past are nice, but how its done in the game that is currently being played is more important. The flaws in Andromeda was not the setting for me, but how the different elements were used. Now there is just as equal chance with all the concerns that people have for the next Mass Effect game that those exact same flaws are going to be in either galaxy. So my pondering as been as always will be how does just being in The Milky Way mean they will automatically overcome or have an easier time overcoming those flaws. I just don't see it, for I can see them making a good game in Andromeda work just as likely as one in The Milky Way and the same being true for games that don't work. There is more to these games the labels we recognize for if that is what made a game work I think Andromeda would have done better then what it did. Don’t agree. Even without numbers we can make a good educated guess. Original trilogy has more recognition and will get more after legendary edition probably. Andromeda outside it’s core fans is remembered as a meme. That’s not to say I trust bioware to write a good Milky Way game but it seems clear to me that it is a better gamble than spinning the wheel again on andromeda.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 31, 2021 21:34:30 GMT
Don’t agree. Even without numbers we can make a good educated guess. Original trilogy has more recognition and will get more after legendary edition probably. Andromeda outside it’s core fans is remembered as a meme. That’s not to say I trust bioware to write a good Milky Way game but it seems clear to me that it is a better gamble than spinning the wheel again on andromeda. A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 31, 2021 21:41:53 GMT
Don’t agree. Even without numbers we can make a good educated guess. Original trilogy has more recognition and will get more after legendary edition probably. Andromeda outside it’s core fans is remembered as a meme. That’s not to say I trust bioware to write a good Milky Way game but it seems clear to me that it is a better gamble than spinning the wheel again on andromeda. A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle. I think this is a pretty likely scenario but I am very afraid we'll just end up with "the worst of both worlds".
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Post by smilesja on Mar 31, 2021 21:43:10 GMT
A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle. I think this is a pretty likely scenario but I am very afraid we'll just end up with "the worst of both worlds". That is the fear, Bioware ending up pleasing nobody. This is a good but also a delicate situation, people were receptive to the MELE trailer so they got to approach this with care.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 31, 2021 22:03:52 GMT
Don’t agree. Even without numbers we can make a good educated guess. Original trilogy has more recognition and will get more after legendary edition probably. Andromeda outside it’s core fans is remembered as a meme. That’s not to say I trust bioware to write a good Milky Way game but it seems clear to me that it is a better gamble than spinning the wheel again on andromeda. A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle.
I would say that doing a direct sequel set in the MWG after the endings to ME3 could do more harm than good because people are still butt hurt about those endings even after all these years and re-opening that can of worms in the ME:LE could be even a bigger disaster than any stupid and worthless MEA meme that few people remember and fewer care about and that most would forgive for even a half-way decent game. You can also pick up new players who have heard about Mass Effect but don't want or have the time to play 3 games and ton of DLC plus read 3 novels, a bunch of comics, and watch an anime movie if they really want to fully understand why characters like Liara change radically from ME1 to ME2, the origins and backstories of Saren and the Illusive Man.
They could find MEA a much easier entry point to the Mass Effect Universe.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 31, 2021 22:04:32 GMT
Don’t agree. Even without numbers we can make a good educated guess. Original trilogy has more recognition and will get more after legendary edition probably. Andromeda outside it’s core fans is remembered as a meme. That’s not to say I trust bioware to write a good Milky Way game but it seems clear to me that it is a better gamble than spinning the wheel again on andromeda. A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle. See I just don’t see the benefit of merging. Do one thing or do the other. Don’t do an awful attempt at amalgamating and end up pleasing no one.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 31, 2021 22:09:34 GMT
A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle. See I just don’t see the benefit of merging. Do one thing or do the other. Don’t do an awful attempt at amalgamating and end up pleasing no one.
It's the equivalent of doing Marvel doing The Avengers movies maybe I want to see a supporting character like Black Widow because I like the character and/or the actor playing her and sometimes it's just cool to see how different characters bounce off and react to each other.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 31, 2021 22:19:29 GMT
theres no gurantee that anything will be satisfying... And pretty much everything has 'sequel bait' Actually, that's not true. For example, there's a difference between selling a comic book with Thor, to selling a comic book about Thor, who is actually Thor's 4'9" granddaughter, to Hammer Dude, who is some guy who thinks he is Thor. One of these is guaranteed to be a better time than the other two. People will buy Thor, the real Thor, over the other Thors, given the option. There are guarantees. I am a lot more invested in Thor and I am a lot more likely to enjoy a bad Thor comic, to a mediocre "Thor, the granddaughter of Thor", or a Hammer Dude comic. Even if all these are Thor branded comic books. You do seem to have a good basic point here but yet it is so specific that it still bothers me. 1. Having a returning character does not guarantee that character will be well written or well recieved. As an example after Infinity War Thor had become one of my favorite Avengers but then with Endgame I did not really like some of the things that they did with the character so it ended up doing more harm then good and removing some of that good will. Also, at the end of Mass Effect 2 if you had told me that the ME 3 would feature 'Shepard as the protagonist, the Illusive Man as a principle antagonist, and the conclusion of the Reaper story arc' I would have been pretty thrilled... hell I think I was pretty thrilled. And yet almost none of it was entirely satisfying...granted ME 3 is a pretty great game but ME 3 is probably the worse Shepard has been from a character/ RP perspective, the Illusive Man was a shadow of his former self in ME 2, and the ending is certainly compromised. 2. Your right that specific character concept does not sound all that appealing and is probably not something I would watch... but Natalie Portman taking up the hammer as Jane Foster has some intrigue to it and once again in the ME universe I found Ryder to be better written, the better RP options, more nuanced, and almost as bad ass as Shepard. Point is new characters can work and often do...at least for me... A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle.
I would say that doing a direct sequel set in the MWG after the endings to ME3 could do more harm than good because people are still butt hurt about those endings even after all these years and re-opening that can of worms in the ME:LE could be even a bigger disaster than any stupid and worthless MEA meme that few people remember and fewer care about and that most would forgive for even a half-way decent game. You can also pick up new players who have heard about Mass Effect but don't want or have the time to play 3 games and ton of DLC plus read 3 novels, a bunch of comics, and watch an anime movie if they really want to fully understand why characters like Liara change radically from ME1 to ME2, the origins and backstories of Saren and the Illusive Man.
They could find MEA a much easier entry point to the Mass Effect Universe.
I mean this is a pretty accurate read of the situation really. Most of the outrage is over ME 3 and its endings and the stuff over Andromeda really pales in comparison. Andromeda may be a meme but the mere mention of the ending can cause endless angry debate...what eight years after it happened? A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle. See I just don’t see the benefit of merging. Do one thing or do the other. Don’t do an awful attempt at amalgamating and end up pleasing no one. It will obviously depend on what they will do and what they can do with the idea but the 'pleasing no one' seems like a bit of a stretch, at this time.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 31, 2021 23:06:25 GMT
The problem as I see is that going back to the Milky Way is exactly the same thing that you describe Andromeda to be. I don't see how it will improve the story or concepts when they never carried forward before aside from a few basics that were "solved" in Mass Effect 3. What defined the Milky Way for me was the things like the Quarian/Geth conflict or the Genophage which both were wrapped up in ME3 and if they continue I would expect them to become canon so for those that didn't pick the canon choice BioWare makes it would feel like going to Andromeda all over again. So that is where my thinking is that Andromeda or Milky Way its going to have the same problems and those expecting it would be different aren't going to get what I think they would expect. The Milky Way has a much richer history to build on and a greater variety of races. Andromeda has the angara, who existed for 80 years or so, and the kett, who give me strong "budget collectors" vibes. The Jardaan are either still out there or not, and I don't remember anything interesting about them. There's the Mom Ryder situation and the Jien Garson murder, but that's just material for two side quests. They'd have to come up with something new for Andromeda just like they would for the Milky Way. Rebuilding from a devastating war just seems like a more interesting setting to me than the few loose ends of Andromeda. But that's just my personal preference. I never connected with the Andromeda setting or MEA's characters, so I have very little motivation to revisit the place. So you’re comparing an entire galaxy to one cluster? Of course one is going to have more story than the other. As you expand more into Andromeda, it would become as rich if not richer than the Milky Way, which was the point and plan.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 31, 2021 23:44:49 GMT
They could find MEA a much easier entry point to the Mass Effect Universe. Really? If that's the case wouldn't MEA have been better received? How many of the people who bought and played MEA were new players? Of those new players, how many liked MEA? For those who didn't like it, for whatever reason, it's possible they would tell their friends it's not worth playing and/or not worth getting a sequel to MEA.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 31, 2021 23:53:55 GMT
A good gamble would be trying to tie the two galaxies together. Again ignoring Andromeda is just going to restart the cycle.
I would say that doing a direct sequel set in the MWG after the endings to ME3 could do more harm than good because people are still butt hurt about those endings even after all these years and re-opening that can of worms in the ME:LE could be even a bigger disaster than any stupid and worthless MEA meme that few people remember and fewer care about and that most would forgive for even a half-way decent game. You can also pick up new players who have heard about Mass Effect but don't want or have the time to play 3 games and ton of DLC plus read 3 novels, a bunch of comics, and watch an anime movie if they really want to fully understand why characters like Liara change radically from ME1 to ME2, the origins and backstories of Saren and the Illusive Man.
They could find MEA a much easier entry point to the Mass Effect Universe.
Yeah that is the easiest rout econtinuing MEA but smilesja 's idea could work if it was done righ rtbut it would need t obe don eright and I don' tknow whether Biowaer would hav eenough room to maneuver in there so his is the moer riskier option but it could work. It depensd really on whether Biowaer or EA aer willing t otak etha trisk though because the whole thing could fall down if i tgoes wrong
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 1, 2021 0:52:31 GMT
You do seem to have a good basic point here but yet it is so specific that it still bothers me. 1. Having a returning character does not guarantee that character will be well written or well recieved. As an example after Infinity War Thor had become one of my favorite Avengers but then with Endgame I did not really like some of the things that they did with the character so it ended up doing more harm then good and removing some of that good will. Also, at the end of Mass Effect 2 if you had told me that the ME 3 would feature 'Shepard as the protagonist, the Illusive Man as a principle antagonist, and the conclusion of the Reaper story arc' I would have been pretty thrilled... hell I think I was pretty thrilled. And yet almost none of it was entirely satisfying...granted ME 3 is a pretty great game but ME 3 is probably the worse Shepard has been from a character/ RP perspective, the Illusive Man was a shadow of his former self in ME 2, and the ending is certainly compromised. 2. Your right that specific character concept does not sound all that appealing and is probably not something I would watch... but Natalie Portman taking up the hammer as Jane Foster has some intrigue to it and once again in the ME universe I found Ryder to be better written, the better RP options, more nuanced, and almost as bad ass as Shepard. Point is new characters can work and often do...at least for me... 1. Even so. Spider Man had "One More Day". You can look it up. It is one of the worst received Spider man stories. If not the worst. People still wanted more Spider man after it. Marvel did, eventually, go back and undo it. And I am certain that, just like ME3's endings, there were a lot of people saying how much they loved it. But it was a bad story that did a lot of damage to the character. The fans did not turn away from the character, in spite of the damage the writers had done, but a lot of that disappointed was reflected in the sales. Eventually, the storyline would be undone and the damage would be largely repaired. Because people love Peter Parker. They will put up with a lot of shit, because of how much they love Peter Parker. And you can have Miguel O'Hara, as Spider Man 2099 and Miles Morales and Ben Riley, but Peter Parker will always be the Spider Man. And any of those characters can get good and bad story lines, in equal measure, but Peter Parker will always fair better. Would you say that Ryder is bigger, in the eyes of the people, than Shepard? Even ME3, which was the worst received ME, still did better than ME:A in every metric. By that comparison, Ryder is guaranteed to do worse, even at a better title. Another example. Carol Danvers is the iconic Ms. Marvel. That's the thing she is most well known for. No matter how they've made her Captain Marvel now and completely ruined her character and intend to base the entire MCU around her going forward. The current Ms. Marvel is Kamala Khan. And in spite of being a so and so character, had some traction going for her at first. Until Marvel turned her basically into an SS commandant of a concentration camp, during Civil War 2. You don't recover from that. Ms Marvel has been relaunched, with diminishing returns each time, 5 times now? 6? I've lost count. She does worse with each new launch, regardless of story line. One run, I recall had as little as 4-6 issues. And the other thing she's known for, her big break, is the Avengers video game. That nobody plays and is considered to be worse than Anthem. There are some things you don't recover from. And there are people that, in spite of all that, still love Kamala Khan. There are people that after Andromeda still love Ryder. I don't think Ryder is in as bad a situation as Kamala Khan is, but Kamala is dead and the best thing Marvel can do with her is put her in a vault and pull her back out in 10 years with a staff behind her that has an actual idea of what to do with her. Similarly, for Ryder's sake and ME's sake for that matter, Ryder would best be suited getting vaulted for now and being brought back when Bioware prove themselves they're competent to do something good with that character. People would buy a Carol Danvers Ms. Marvel comic book. They would not buy a Kamala Khan, Ms. Marvel comic book. Also, Jane Foster becoming Thor is also one of the worst Thor comic book storylines for the Thor Marvel IP. I don't have any faith in the movie.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 1, 2021 2:31:29 GMT
Lol. Here we go again. "The way I want things done is the most popular and profitable way, and companies making decisions I don't like MUST just want to lose money and fans. They can't possibly have access to any information that I don't, or be interested in courting multiple audiences that don't include me, they just want to go bankrupt for some reason. Because, obviously, if I'm not buying the thing and my internet friends aren't buying the thing, then NOBODY is buying the thing! Obviously!"
Good thing the movies have such a large audience compared to the comic books that Marvel and Disney don't really need to stress over belligerent nerds who froth at the mouth over any minor deviation.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 1, 2021 3:15:40 GMT
Lol. Here we go again. "The way I want things done is the most popular and profitable way, and companies making decisions I don't like MUST just want to lose money and fans. They can't possibly have access to any information that I don't, or be interested in courting multiple audiences that don't include me, they just want to go bankrupt for some reason. Because, obviously, if I'm not buying the thing and my internet friends aren't buying the thing, then NOBODY is buying the thing! Obviously!" Good thing the movies have such a large audience compared to the comic books that Marvel and Disney don't really need to stress over belligerent nerds who froth at the mouth over any minor deviation. I'd really like you to show me how all these Marvel titles with declining sales over a half a decade show that they somehow have data to prove otherwise. At least Donny Cates writes some good Thor. Which couldn't be said for Jane Foster's time as Thor.
Maybe comic books are just dying, right? Not like they haven't been the biggest movie phenomenon over the past 15 years, to garner otherwise.
I doubt this "mythical" data that proves otherwise people so often cite exist at all and it's just a bunch of poorly positioned people making poor business decisions. It's not like we haven't seen any of those from Bioware, over the past decade. I think the data has been discarded in favour of Bioware Magic.
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pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 1, 2021 5:30:49 GMT
Lol. Here we go again. "The way I want things done is the most popular and profitable way, and companies making decisions I don't like MUST just want to lose money and fans. They can't possibly have access to any information that I don't, or be interested in courting multiple audiences that don't include me, they just want to go bankrupt for some reason. Because, obviously, if I'm not buying the thing and my internet friends aren't buying the thing, then NOBODY is buying the thing! Obviously!" Good thing the movies have such a large audience compared to the comic books that Marvel and Disney don't really need to stress over belligerent nerds who froth at the mouth over any minor deviation. I'd really like you to show me how all these Marvel titles with declining sales over a half a decade show that they somehow have data to prove otherwise. At least Donny Cates writes some good Thor. Which couldn't be said for Jane Foster's time as Thor.
Maybe comic books are just dying, right? Not like they haven't been the biggest movie phenomenon over the past 15 years, to garner otherwise.
I doubt this "mythical" data that proves otherwise people so often cite exist at all and it's just a bunch of poorly positioned people making poor business decisions. It's not like we haven't seen any of those from Bioware, over the past decade. I think the data has been discarded in favour of Bioware Magic.
It's absolutely possible that comics could simply be dying. People are obviously watching the movies, after all, and loving them, even though they incorporate changes YOU hate, like rebooting Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel, rather than Ms. Captain Marvel was extremely profitable, especially among female audiences, so excessive wokeness and not catering to white men or whatever clearly isn't the issue. Maybe, just maybe, more women and girls didn't migrate to comic collecting because geek culture has, for decades, proven to be hostile and unwelcoming to women and girls? Or, and stay with me on this, maybe collecting comics is expensive and a pain the ass, a very high barrier of entry for a hobby with little return, and people would rather just get a complete story in one sitting. Or maybe the industry has shot itself in the foot with confusing storytelling spread out over different series featuring different characters, that makes getting all the issues of the one story you're interested in very difficult. Maybe a lot of people prefer to wait for trade paperbacks instead, rather than be nickel-and-dimed over weeks and months, or get suckered into a subscription for a digital service. Maybe it's all these things. The real question is why anyone would think the success of the movies would ever translate to a surge in comic sales in the first place. Movies and comics are fundamentally different forms of media, and liking a movie doesn't mean you'll go out and buy those comics. It never HAS meant that, and most movies throughout history that were adapted from books (actually quite a lot, way more than you'd think) don't translate into increased sales of the book, either. In most cases, people remain completely unaware that the film they loved was originally a book. Regardless, your assertions that Marvel and Disney just don't understand how to make money are absurd on their face, given the success of the movies (not to mention the financial standing of both companies overall) and your apparent belief that art and media only have value if they make lots of money is repellent.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 1, 2021 5:51:13 GMT
It's absolutely possible that comics could simply be dying Alright. So comic books simply started dying, coincidentally when all these shitty storylines started to happen and they didn't win people back, not because Marvel was pushing America Chavez and Uberfuhrer Kamala Khan, but just because they were dying. You're going to have to do a little better than that. Captain Marvel was extremely profitable, especially among female audiences Citation? Maybe, just maybe, more women and girls didn't migrate to comic collecting because geek culture has, for decades, proven to be hostile and unwelcoming to women and girls? The comic book shop that I use to go to, to get my comic books, was owned by a woman. Nobody prevented anyone from liking comic books. Nobody checked you at the door for a cooch. The comic book store is now closed, because nobody is buying comic books. If anything, the current storylines being pushed have equally put people off from buying comic books, regardless of gender. The real question is why anyone would think the success of the movies would ever translate to a surge in comic sales in the first place. Sure. I mean, what correlation could there be? It's not like, say, the Witcher saw an uptick, considerable so, in book sales and video game sales, once the TV show was made. Or how Game Of Thrones books sold like crazy after the TV show, or how games were made using the IP. Or how about nobody read the LotR books after the movies, or how any games were made and sold using the IP, right? Never happened. I am sure all that success of related media to the movies and TV shows never happened. Or perhaps the comic book industry was just immune to that success. Not like Star Wars had any good books and comic books made, or even video games that sold well, either. Oh, wait. So that point is factually proven wrong. Regardless, your assertions that Marvel and Disney just don't understand how to make money are absurd on their face I never made such an assertion, but certain IPs do get mistreated. The marvel comic books are being mistreated. Star Wars is being mistreated. The MCU is going to struggle going forward. your apparent belief that art and media only have value if they make lots of money is repellent. "Art" and "media". Entertainment products. Make no mistake, the entire purpose of these products is to make money. That's all it is. It's just business.
In addition, even if I could take your claims at face value, that the comic book industry is simply a dying medium. Explain manga. Manga have never been more popular in the west and, as far as I am aware, nobody is stopping anyone from liking manga.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,678 Likes: 6,660
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Agent 46
177
0
6,660
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,678
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Apr 1, 2021 6:18:05 GMT
The Milky Way has a much richer history to build on and a greater variety of races. Andromeda has the angara, who existed for 80 years or so, and the kett, who give me strong "budget collectors" vibes. The Jardaan are either still out there or not, and I don't remember anything interesting about them. There's the Mom Ryder situation and the Jien Garson murder, but that's just material for two side quests. They'd have to come up with something new for Andromeda just like they would for the Milky Way. Rebuilding from a devastating war just seems like a more interesting setting to me than the few loose ends of Andromeda. But that's just my personal preference. I never connected with the Andromeda setting or MEA's characters, so I have very little motivation to revisit the place. So you’re comparing an entire galaxy to one cluster? Of course one is going to have more story than the other. As you expand more into Andromeda, it would become as rich if not richer than the Milky Way, which was the point and plan. It doesn't seem fair to compare a galaxy to a cluster, I agree. But what I'm really comparing is the content of two games. Despite being limited to one cluster, MEA was a bigger game than ME1 and still had way less history and variety than that so much older game. If ME1 had been done the same way MEA was we would have had one allied alien race (let's say Turians) and one hostile one (Geth probably), and we wouldn't have been aware of the existence of any other species, meaning that much of the richness and variety that ME1 offered despite being the smaller game would have been lost, making it that much less interesting. It doesn't help Andromeda's cause that one of its two races feels a bit like ME2's Collectors with a different paint job and the other having only existed for 80 years or so. It's actually hard to imagine a setting with even less background and history unless you'd remove one of the two species, meaning we'd either have no allies or no enemies in Andromeda. Of course there could be more alien races in Andromeda's other clusters, but the same is true for the 98% unexplored parts of the Milky Way.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 1, 2021 6:40:56 GMT
So you’re comparing an entire galaxy to one cluster? Of course one is going to have more story than the other. As you expand more into Andromeda, it would become as rich if not richer than the Milky Way, which was the point and plan. It doesn't seem fair to compare a galaxy to a cluster, I agree. But what I'm really comparing is the content of two games. Despite being limited to one cluster, MEA was a bigger game than ME1 and still had way less history and variety than that so much older game. If ME1 had been done the same way MEA was we would have had one allied alien race (let's say Turians) and one hostile one (Geth probably), and we wouldn't have been aware of the existence of any other species, meaning that much of the richness and variety that ME1 offered despite being the smaller game would have been lost, making it that much less interesting. It doesn't help Andromeda's cause that one of its two races feels a bit like ME2's Collectors with a different paint job and the other having only existed for 80 years or so. It's actually hard to imagine a setting with even less background and history unless you'd remove one of the two species, meaning we'd either have no allies or no enemies in Andromeda. Of course there could be more alien races in Andromeda's other clusters, but the same is true for the 98% unexplored parts of the Milky Way. There are pros and cons to both. I don’t disagree with your points, but on the other hand we got a ton more development of the Angara as opposed to the various races in ME1. For the Milky Way races, most of what we learn is in Codex entries or exposition dumps, while for the Angara we actually learn all of it. For example we don’t read a codex about their religious beliefs, but have a quest line about it. Show vs Tell. Also where are you getting that the Angara are only 80 years old? They have members like the Moshae who are older than that. The 80 years ago is when the Kett first arrived. The Angara have been around for a less than a millennium, but a lot more than a century.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,678 Likes: 6,660
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Agent 46
177
0
6,660
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,678
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Apr 1, 2021 6:49:15 GMT
It doesn't seem fair to compare a galaxy to a cluster, I agree. But what I'm really comparing is the content of two games. Despite being limited to one cluster, MEA was a bigger game than ME1 and still had way less history and variety than that so much older game. If ME1 had been done the same way MEA was we would have had one allied alien race (let's say Turians) and one hostile one (Geth probably), and we wouldn't have been aware of the existence of any other species, meaning that much of the richness and variety that ME1 offered despite being the smaller game would have been lost, making it that much less interesting. It doesn't help Andromeda's cause that one of its two races feels a bit like ME2's Collectors with a different paint job and the other having only existed for 80 years or so. It's actually hard to imagine a setting with even less background and history unless you'd remove one of the two species, meaning we'd either have no allies or no enemies in Andromeda. Of course there could be more alien races in Andromeda's other clusters, but the same is true for the 98% unexplored parts of the Milky Way. There are pros and cons to both. I don’t disagree with your points, but on the other hand we got a ton more development of the Angara as opposed to the various races in ME1. For the Milky Way races, most of what we learn is in Codex entries or exposition dumps, while for the Angara we actually learn all of it. For example we don’t read a codex about their religious beliefs, but have a quest line about it. Show vs Tell. Also where are you getting that the Angara are only 80 years old? They have members like the Moshae who are older than that. The 89 years ago is when the Kett first arrived. The Angara have been around for a less than a millennium, but a lot more than a century. I don't disagree with your points either. Focusing on one race allows for way more detail and elaboration, and it's true that much of what we learn of the OT's species is from the Codex, especially in ME1. I'm sorry about the 80 year mistake, they did exist for longer than that but if I remember correctly, all their records of their history prior to their contact with the Kett has been lost, so that's the extend of background they have. Thank you for correcting me.
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Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 1, 2021 13:09:46 GMT
Hmmm....
If yes, then would it still be like the goofyness of the last one?
If no, then how would they get around the dead end that was the MET's end?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 1, 2021 13:55:10 GMT
I'm not a particular fan of Liara but at this point after reading all the hate non stop from people who have gone totally irrational about it I want her in every scene and conversation, I want her to show up in a romance scene just to cock block the protagonist. That'd just cause those people to not buy the game, though. So the question is: who'd be laughing then?
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eternalambiguity
N3
I am alive.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 281 Likes: 335
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Jun 17, 2023 20:35:13 GMT
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eternalambiguity
I am alive.
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eternalambiguity
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by eternalambiguity on Apr 1, 2021 13:57:04 GMT
If no, then how would they get around the dead end that was the MET's end? You might as well prepare yourself now: they're getting around the "dead end" that was the MET's end. Probably not going to pick your ending. That isn't to say they won't try to do stuff with Andromeda, but I think it's almost guaranteed that they're finally ripping the band-aid off.
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