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Post by andydandymandy on May 17, 2021 1:19:12 GMT
It loses *all* its atmosphere. It was a brooding, hellish atmosphere. Now its just flat and doesn't hit with anywhere near the same impact. Its not a good change at all. Which begs the question of why the colonists on Eden Prime wanted to live on it the first place, and why Jenkins called it a paradise.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on May 17, 2021 1:30:21 GMT
His shocked comnent of 'Oh God... what happened here?' didn't tip you off that it doesn't usually look like that? Come on, its obvious that its part of the attack.
Nobody is saying it couldn't have looked more realistic. But they had to do that without compromising the iconic atmosphere. Even for such an old game, the OG version has excellent atmosphere - this version doesn't. It makes the whole thing feel like its no big deal. The Demons' Souls remake did the same, the RE3 Remake gutted the atmosphere of the fallen Raccoon City and it was a big conrributor to Fallout 4's lukewarm reception with its bright, suuny Boston instead of the overcast menace of DC
Atmosphere matters.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on May 17, 2021 2:09:52 GMT
His shocked comnent of 'Oh God... what happened here?' didn't tip you off that it doesn't usually look like that? Come on, its obvious that its part of the attack. He is commenting about the charred, dead bodies on the rock, not the atmosphere/sky of Eden Prime.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on May 17, 2021 2:28:56 GMT
No he isn't. Speak to him as soon as you land and he says that line. It just repeats when you first see the bodies.
And the fact remains that you're blatantly not supposed to think that Eden Prime always had such a doom laden atmosphere. It was there to sell the severity of the situation. By comparison, LE completely no sells it. There are many ways to build up a hellish, apocalyptic horror level - bright sunshine and lens flare are not among them.
It'd be like having Whitney Houston's 'I wanna dance with somebody' playing during Lazarus Station. Great pop song and all but possibly wouldn't set the right tone...
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Post by andydandymandy on May 17, 2021 2:36:00 GMT
What exactly did Sovereign do to the planet to make the sky that red?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 2:40:42 GMT
It loses *all* its atmosphere. It was a brooding, hellish atmosphere. Now its just flat and doesn't hit with anywhere near the same impact. Its not a good change at all. It was, absolutely. Should it have been? That is an actual question. andydandy has a point there I think, it was supposed to be an ideal colony world. Yes, it was under attack by a Reaper, but it was a single Reaper with a specific purpose and not trying to engage in open warfare. I don't know if Sovereign alone would have impacted the planet's atmosphere this way. I understand your feeling about game atmosphere, but I see the point about accuracy as well. Hmm shrugums.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on May 17, 2021 2:53:37 GMT
Andy, perhaps you missed the bit where I said 'Nobody said it couldn't have looked more realistic'. My point (again) is that whilst added realism is a worthy aim, it cannot come at the expense of completely removing the atmosphere of an iconic level. RE2 remake addressed many issues about how unrealistic the OG Police Station was but they did so whilst preserving and enhancing the atmosphere.
By removing the hellish atmosphere, they have completely no sold the main villains in their iconic first appearence. Its all about visual story telling. Volcanic dust in the skies, raging fires and screams - there were plenty of ways to achieve the atmosphere in a more realistic way. Just saying 'its not scientifically possible for this alien ship that doesn't actually exist to do that, so let's just replace the overcast sky with completely tonally inconsistent sunshine'...
I'd have settled for even a regular non red overcast sky over what LE gives us. They told me it was a beautiful paradise but its been attacked and destroyed for crying out loud. It'd be like going to Sarevo during the war and whistling 'It didn't look like *this* in the brochure... Still, nice day isn't it?'
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Post by andydandymandy on May 17, 2021 3:09:07 GMT
Perhaps you missed the bit where I said 'Nobody said it couldn't have looked more realistic'. My point (again) is that whilst added realism is a worthy aim, it cannot come at the expense of completely removing the atmosphere of an iconic level. RE2 remake addressed many issues about how unrealistic the OG Police Station was but they did so whilst preserving and enhancing the atmosphere. By removing the hellish atmosphere, they have completely no sold the main villains in their iconic first appearence. Its all about visual story telling. Volcanic dust in the skies, raging fires and screams - there were plenty of ways to achieve the atmosphere in a more realistic way. Just saying 'its not scientifically possible for this alien ship that doesn't actually exist to do that, so let's just replace the overcast sky with completely tonally inconsistent sunshine'... I'd have settled for even a regular non red overcast sky over what LE gives us. I think the "visual storytelling" of the OG Eden Prime isn't as good as you remembered it being. Because the red sky distracts from the impact of what the villains are doing. They literally blend into the over the top, over stylized hellscape background. There isn't enough contrast between how the planet is "supposed" to look and what the villains are doing to it, because how can you really tell the difference? The whole thing looks like a red nightmare. It all blends together. But now Saren, Sovereign, and Geth pop much more in the LE edition.
You might prefer how the OG looked, but I don't see how its better visual storytelling.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on May 17, 2021 4:12:03 GMT
Because in a horror setting, seeing the enemies more clearly is a basic storytelling error? Horror relies on how people feel in a visceral sense by the atmosphere of menace you create. People were terrified of Jaws but look at the actual shark prop and its laughable. In the darkness of the OG Eden Prime the Geth look 100 times more sinister, their headlamps gleaming with a cold white light in an overcast gloomy environ lit primarily by their lights, flames and gunfire.
And again, you're ignoring that the changes could have been less drastic. You're obsessing about wanting the red gone but I've already said a regular overcast sky would have been an acceptable compromise. Or simply clouds filled with fiery dust or it being night time with the clouds and dust reflecting the light of the fires. Heck just being night at all instead of a bright sunny day... Hirata Estate from Sekiro for example - way better than this Eden Prime from an atmospheric and visual storytelling standpoint.
Its indefensible to change an iconic, appropriate atmosphere for a lens flare happy sun dappled one that is completely at odds with the needs of the storytelling. Its The X-Files from Season 6 onwards all over again.
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Post by ahglock on May 17, 2021 17:09:19 GMT
It loses *all* its atmosphere. It was a brooding, hellish atmosphere. Now its just flat and doesn't hit with anywhere near the same impact. Its not a good change at all. I disagree, when you are landing you see plenty of smoke, it looked like the place was burning without changing the entire color palette of the planet. I live in an area of yearly fires, the LE is was more atmospheric imo. It fit the level of destruction described and shown.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 20:28:48 GMT
There seems to be some dissatisfaction. I also just noticed that the OP is playing this game right now as I type. So, whatcha think? Gotta spicy take on dat MELE? I wasnt going to buy it, but I saw that maybe if MELE does well they might bring multiplayer back in it, so I figured I'd chip in and give it some support, ME1 looks amazing in 4K 120 FPS the other two games look good also but ME1 is really awesome, plus I love ME1 story and atmosphere, the other two games are garbage at those two elements and I am having a hard time getting the motivation to finish 2. I dont even want to think about playing 3 and that horrible writing.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 21:05:34 GMT
There seems to be some dissatisfaction. I also just noticed that the OP is playing this game right now as I type. So, whatcha think? Gotta spicy take on dat MELE? I wasnt going to buy it, but I saw that maybe if MELE does well they might bring multiplayer back in it, so I figured I'd chip in and give it some support, ME1 looks amazing in 4K 120 FPS the other two games look good also but ME1 is really awesome, plus I love ME1 story and atmosphere, the other two games are garbage at those two elements and I am having a hard time getting the motivation to finish 2. I dont even want to think about playing 3 and that horrible writing. SPICY take: the only reason to buy MELE is to see a pretty ME1, and trying to convince BW to give us ME3MPLE.
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Post by turianlannister on May 17, 2021 21:47:05 GMT
We are a couple weeks away from the Legendary edition coming out and I just wanted to hear everyone's SPICY takes. I'll start. Tailromancers should be ashamed.
Not only is she an overrated character I never understood the fixation with wanting to romance her. Shepard is in his late 30s when he meets her. Is she even 18? Talk about your barely legal shit. It always came off as some creepy sexual predator shit to me. And this is coming from the sexual degenerate nat in the hat. Shepard is 29 in the first game and Tali is 22
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 22:02:01 GMT
We are a couple weeks away from the Legendary edition coming out and I just wanted to hear everyone's SPICY takes. I'll start. Tailromancers should be ashamed.
Not only is she an overrated character I never understood the fixation with wanting to romance her. Shepard is in his late 30s when he meets her. Is she even 18? Talk about your barely legal shit. It always came off as some creepy sexual predator shit to me. And this is coming from the sexual degenerate nat in the hat. Shepard is 29 in the first game and Tali is 22 Is that really the case? Still creeper vibes....
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Post by Warrick on May 17, 2021 22:12:44 GMT
What exactly did Sovereign do to the planet to make the sky that red? There's fire and lava nearby. Forest fires make the sky red. Lava does too. You can look at videos on youtube. I'm fine with the new sky. I like both. But too many people have been saying the red sky was unrealistic and it wasn't. Red skies happen. Picking one over the other is a matter of taste, not realism.
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Post by Exile Isan on May 17, 2021 22:17:30 GMT
I always assumed the sky was red on Eden Prime because the sun was either rising or setting and there was too much smoke in the air. I mean, I don't really care either way, the red sky was fine. The new one is fine too. I kind of like the new one a little bit better, but that might be because Sovereign looks so much better.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 17, 2021 22:17:46 GMT
It loses *all* its atmosphere. It was a brooding, hellish atmosphere. Now its just flat and doesn't hit with anywhere near the same impact. Its not a good change at all. Nah, it was very saturday morning cartoon level of "hell". Very 2000s too if you looked at the gaming landscape at the time. It wasn't disturbing or fearsome. There is no eerie sense of dread that the MELE makeover subtly gives. Just very on the nose and comic-book-y. With Saren too it just screamed very generic cliche ancient evil setup you would see on some random TV show. Luckily the rest of the game shied away (somewhat) from the tackiness. The MELE of Eden Prime is much less disconcerting, and much pleasing and interesting aesthetically. Eden Prime actually matches canonically what it was said to be. There's no dissonance in the lore anymore. And the attack itself you take more convincingly on a cognitive level in terms of the awe and mystique of everything happening to it. Visually it lends itself to feeling more impactful. There's nothing about Eden Prime in the original to make you feel that it's a precious garden paradise worth being saved and not immediately tossed away. There's nothing to be bothered by. The contrast given between the ominous mystery of Soverign floating above and wrecking havoc against what is supposed to be a beautiful, lush, and supposedly serene planet is very appealing from an aesthetic standpoint. Fiery disaster on a clear, sunny day is much more unsettling than a boring blanket of one shade of red casted everywhere. The original felt monotonous and overwrought with "look, at this, this is EVIL! Red is the color of EVIL! Don't you get it? It's evil!" It being "iconic" is merely happenstance of replay value.
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Post by Warrick on May 17, 2021 22:26:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 22:27:53 GMT
What exactly did Sovereign do to the planet to make the sky that red? There's fire and lava nearby. Forest fires make the sky red. Lava does too. You can look at videos on youtube. I'm fine with the new sky. I like both. But too many people have been saying the red sky was unrealistic and it wasn't. Red skies happen. Picking one over the other is a matter of taste, not realism. Lava? Since when was Eden Prime ever a volcanic planet? There's no lava on Eden Prime in the OT that I can recall. The red sky was merely cartoonish and misleading. I much prefer the smoke, the more numerous and realistic fires on the ground, and the visible ash floating in the air. If you now trigger the cutscene from the spaceport, the amount of wreckage you see where Sovereign landed is far more foretelling about the level of destruction to come than the "red streaks" on the ground and red sky ever were... and those "red streaks" were never lava.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 17, 2021 22:28:13 GMT
Refusal is the only ending that aligns perfectly with any consistent moral compass Shepard is capable of having.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 22:32:30 GMT
Am I crazy or could you shoot the star child and he would then speak in Harbingers voice and say something then walk away and it ended with refusal, but I tried doing that again and it didnt happen. Did I imagine that?
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Post by Warrick on May 17, 2021 22:36:28 GMT
I'm sure everyone is familiar with the trope "reality is unrealistic". This is one instance. Red sky is realistic. - There are fires nearby - Sovereign is sitting on a big poodle of lava - The action takes place at sunset All three factors help create that effect, as we can see in real life. Sorry. Once again I would like to emphasize the new sky looks ok too. People can prefer the new sky without mistakenly stating that the old one was wrong or silly.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 17, 2021 23:21:56 GMT
I'm sure everyone is familiar with the trope "reality is unrealistic". This is one instance. Red sky is realistic. - There are fires nearby - Sovereign is sitting on a big poodle of lava - The action takes place at sunset All three factors help create that effect, as we can see in real life. Sorry. Once again I would like to emphasize the new sky looks ok too. People can prefer the new sky without mistakenly stating that the old one was wrong or silly. Eden Prime in the original ME1 looks nothing like that picture though. I honestly don't believe the devs were inspired by forest fires.
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Post by colfoley on May 17, 2021 23:24:43 GMT
The problem with the red sky from the original was that it was only there for console and hardware limitations. Sure, it could create a certain effect but there are other ways to do that and well it wasn't consistent with anything else in the series. A. Eden Prime has a 'normal' sky in 3 and B. the Repars do not turn a sky red when they show up on a planet.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 23:52:26 GMT
I'm sure everyone is familiar with the trope "reality is unrealistic". This is one instance. Red sky is realistic. - There are fires nearby - Sovereign is sitting on a big poodle of lava - The action takes place at sunset All three factors help create that effect, as we can see in real life. Sorry. Once again I would like to emphasize the new sky looks ok too. People can prefer the new sky without mistakenly stating that the old one was wrong or silly. You're clearly mistaken about the lava. Ashley says "It looks like someone dropped a bomb." ... and Sovereign landed on the spot where the Spaceport stood. Spaceports serving colonies of 3.7 million people (which is what the game lists the population as being) are not built on pools of lava. What you're seeing is a poor representation of scorched earth. Nowhere in ME1 is Eden Prime described as having any volcanic activity. Furthermore, there is no evidence of volcanic activity in ME3 when you pick up Javik, despite the fact that the Prothean ruins are buried and described as "sticking out of the ground like an old bone." In the updated cutscene, the wreckage of the spaceport has been added... making it more indicative of what was destroyed when Sovereign landed.
Fires cause sunsets and sun rises to be red... but the sky is not red all day long. There is no indication that the sun is either rising or setting on Eden Prime... that is, as we progress it doesn't become nighttime nor do we appear to start the mission at dawn.
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