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Post by Warrick on May 17, 2021 23:54:03 GMT
What the devs were inspired by doesn't matter to whether the red is unrealistic. It isn't.
I'm not going to search the Internet for a photo with the exact same amount of smoke, clouds, and the sun placed at the correct position so that it looks identical to Eden Prime. People would nitpick a difference anyway. Bottom line: it happens in real life. I think I have shown that. You can do whatever you like with the information. 😊
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 0:22:47 GMT
What the devs were inspired by doesn't matter to whether the red is unrealistic. It isn't. I'm not going to search the Internet for a photo with the exact same amount of smoke, clouds, and the sun placed at the correct position so that it looks identical to Eden Prime. People would nitpick a difference anyway. Bottom line: it happens in real life. I think I have shown that. You can do whatever you like with the information. 😊 ... and you can do what you like with the reality that people don't build spaceports over pools of lava.
The bottom line here is that this whole issue is much ado over nothing. Not much "atmosphere" was lost and much was gained by adding in the haunting wreckage of what Sovereign destroyed when he landed. Just think of the tens of thousands of lives possibly crushed in that wreckage. Much was also gained by adding in ash and sparks floating in the air and adding more fires and more realistic flame movement to those fires.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 18, 2021 0:46:04 GMT
I think Eden Prime looks worlds better, but then all of the environments do. I especially like the updated lava effects on Therum.
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
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Post by Exile Isan on May 18, 2021 1:02:01 GMT
I think Eden Prime looks worlds better, but then all of the environments do. I especially like the updated lava effects on Therum. Oh, hells yes. With the steam/smoke and the lava actually bubbling and flowing down the hills.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on May 18, 2021 1:40:39 GMT
So long as you dismiss 'atmosphere' as something we shouldn't care about, ME will continue to falter. If you can't see the problem in losing an extremely effective mood setting intro that sells the monstrous, otherworldly nature of the threat (the effect is intended to make it reminiscent of a demonic invasion - that this isn't 'just' a really savage attack, its something different from a pirate or slaver raid etc). To lose that in favour of this blatant attempt to pander to the mainstream who prize photo mode 'Guys, its so gorgeous' nonsense for their chat streams then we really are in trouble.
Getting hung up on ideas of realism is a blind alley as we already covered. It would have been easily solved by setting it at night or making the sky overcast. Making it a bright sunny day can only demonstrate either a tone deaf attitude to mood setting and visual storytelling or a calculated and superficial decision to appeal to streamers. Its a fair enough tactic even if its not something I'd go for - my problem would be there crowbarring it into a game that originally had no such intent or need of it. That was true to its own vision.
Basically if your only counterargument is 'atmosphere doesn't matter - graphics do' then we will never see eye to eye on this. A realism argument is something I would respect and support in games like RE2 Remake etc. But here that argument is being abused outrageously to justify a root and branch change that doesn't even *try* to keep or respect the original tone. If Eden Prime was being attacked by batarian pirates or Eclipse Mercs then I'd have no problem with this intro - but its not something like that. I'd be all for putting more emphasis on the tragedy of the attack. But a) this new intro doesn't do that and not at the expense of the atmosphere of otherworldly evil.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 18, 2021 2:37:40 GMT
Mass Effect isn’t consistent enough with its color palette for this to really matter, and in my opinion wasn’t particularly effective. It was kinda funny though when Saren is bathed in red when he gets mad while riding Sovereign. Like, did Sovereign set the mood lighting? This sort of thing never happens again no matter what the occasion. It’s kind of weird.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on May 18, 2021 3:09:35 GMT
So long as you dismiss 'atmosphere' as something we shouldn't care about, ME will continue to falter. If you can't see the problem in losing an extremely effective mood setting intro that sells the monstrous, otherworldly nature of the threat (the effect is intended to make it reminiscent of a demonic invasion - that this isn't 'just' a really savage attack, its something different from a pirate or slaver raid etc). To lose that in favour of this blatant attempt to pander to the mainstream who prize photo mode 'Guys, its so gorgeous' nonsense for their chat streams then we really are in trouble. Getting hung up on ideas of realism is a blind alley as we already covered. It would have been easily solved by setting it at night or making the sky overcast. Making it a bright sunny day can only demonstrate either a tone deaf attitude to mood setting and visual storytelling or a calculated and superficial decision to appeal to streamers. Its a fair enough tactic even if its not something I'd go for - my problem would be there crowbarring it into a game that originally had no such intent or need of it. That was true to its own vision. Basically if your only counterargument is 'atmosphere doesn't matter - graphics do' then we will never see eye to eye on this. A realism argument is something I would respect and support in games like RE2 Remake etc. But here that argument is being abused outrageously to justify a root and branch change that doesn't even *try* to keep or respect the original tone. If Eden Prime was being attacked by batarian pirates or Eclipse Mercs then I'd have no problem with this intro - but its not something like that. I'd be all for putting more emphasis on the tragedy of the attack. But a) this new intro doesn't do that and not at the expense of the atmosphere of otherworldly evil. People aren't saying atmosphere doesn't matter they are saying you are wrong MELE has as good or better atmosphere.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on May 18, 2021 11:34:46 GMT
I am ready to take the hit, I know themikefest will let me have it . I am going to have to go back on some of my earlier criticisms of Liara. I am actually enjoying the romance with her as femshep in ME1:LE. Part of it is the order in which I did the missions and it makes the romance flow better, Therum>>Feros>>Noveria. Liara's interest did not come across as romantic until after their first meld, which makes more sense than in other some of my previous runs where her interest came across very sudden and out of place. She does describe the bonding experience in much more detail then I remember, and it shows why she and Shepard both would be so hung up on each other. Playing as femshep helps me get out of my own head in a sense, and really roleplay the character. Versus male Shepard feeling like an extension of myself, and getting frustrated with some of the story telling where I would have handled things much differently. Also after staring at femshep's tush for 20 plus hours in glorious 4k max graphical settings on my 56 inch computer monitor, I think she has Miranda beat. I don't know if I will ever play male Shepard again. Femshep is now my favorite love interest...is that how that works?
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 18, 2021 12:03:02 GMT
Therum>>Feros>>Noveria or Therum>Noveria>Feros is the way for Liaramancers llllllllLIAAARAAAA
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Post by colfoley on May 18, 2021 12:29:26 GMT
Eden Prime is officially much better now then it was in the trilogy. Red sky gone or not the place still reaks of atomosphere as the ash and dust fall down from the battle, fires everywhere.
The Mako is better then ever as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 12:33:56 GMT
So long as you dismiss 'atmosphere' as something we shouldn't care about, ME will continue to falter. If you can't see the problem in losing an extremely effective mood setting intro that sells the monstrous, otherworldly nature of the threat (the effect is intended to make it reminiscent of a demonic invasion - that this isn't 'just' a really savage attack, its something different from a pirate or slaver raid etc). To lose that in favour of this blatant attempt to pander to the mainstream who prize photo mode 'Guys, its so gorgeous' nonsense for their chat streams then we really are in trouble. Getting hung up on ideas of realism is a blind alley as we already covered. It would have been easily solved by setting it at night or making the sky overcast. Making it a bright sunny day can only demonstrate either a tone deaf attitude to mood setting and visual storytelling or a calculated and superficial decision to appeal to streamers. Its a fair enough tactic even if its not something I'd go for - my problem would be there crowbarring it into a game that originally had no such intent or need of it. That was true to its own vision. Basically if your only counterargument is 'atmosphere doesn't matter - graphics do' then we will never see eye to eye on this. A realism argument is something I would respect and support in games like RE2 Remake etc. But here that argument is being abused outrageously to justify a root and branch change that doesn't even *try* to keep or respect the original tone. If Eden Prime was being attacked by batarian pirates or Eclipse Mercs then I'd have no problem with this intro - but its not something like that. I'd be all for putting more emphasis on the tragedy of the attack. But a) this new intro doesn't do that and not at the expense of the atmosphere of otherworldly evil. No, I'm not dismissing atmosphere. It changed, it didn't disappear. The new "artist" of Eden Prime saw a different vision than the first and used a different vehicle of visual story telling to give us that vision. The wreckage in the cut scene is as (or to me... even more) impactful than a red sky. You're the one only seeing what isn't there anymore and not letting what was added touch you. You're trying to shoehorn in your preconceived notion of a "hellscape"... so much so that you're seeing lava in the OT where lava clearly did not exist. Eden Prime now looks like a war zone, not a B Horror movie hellscape. I like it that way. You don't. We are both entitled to have our own likes and dislikes... as is the artist of the remastered level.
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Post by themikefest on May 18, 2021 13:08:42 GMT
Red sky or not, I like this image better than what was shown in the original ME1.
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Post by 10k on May 18, 2021 13:38:44 GMT
Replying ME1 made me realized how glad I am that they got rid of the overheating gun mechanic. It's burdensome, no matter how many cooling upgrades I put on a weapon. I'll take reloading and being able to shoot instantly, over waiting or having to switch to a different gun. Don't even get me started on those geth hoppers that overload your weapons every 2 seconds on insanity.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 18, 2021 17:13:11 GMT
Destroy is easily the most short-sighted ending and I heavily question anyone's intelligence if they still believe it to be the "true" and "logical" ending.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 17:19:44 GMT
Destroy is easily the most short-sighted ending and I heavily question anyone's intelligence if they still believe it to be the "true" and "logical" ending. Sure. I too would much prefer becoming Master of the Universe, or the Great Morpheus. Nothing makes me happier than making decisions for other people against their will.
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Agent 46
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on May 18, 2021 17:35:37 GMT
Destroy isn't great, but it's the least garbage ending. It's still bad for the writers so obviously taking the geth hostage against the player. I could practically hear someone say "Go ahead! Shoot that thing and the toasters get it!"
Synthesis is complete non sequitur nonsense. Organics are remote-implanted with cybernetics and this somehow, in an unexplained way, solves the dilemma of organics creating synthetics that will eventually kill them? There is no logical connection between A and B here. Also, the message it sends is more than problematic. "You, the invaded, must become more like the invader to be left in peace. Don't bother, we don't need your consent."
And Control. A super powerful AI controlling the reapers that is based on Shepard's personality. Whew. Let's hope that Shepard never made a single renegade decision because otherwise the new Shep-Omnissiah might just do the same. But instead of shoving a mercenary out of the window, it has a reaper fleet. Do you feel good?
EDIT: I forgot Refuse! Probably the most pointless of all. It just delays the solution by one cycle and goodness knows how many million or trillion deaths, only for some other guy to get to pick between Destroy/Synthesis/Control again.
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mikaelnovasun
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Post by mikaelnovasun on May 18, 2021 18:24:06 GMT
The geth should be toast once they upload the reaper code. Either I stop Legion and let the quarians wipeout them or I let Legion continue and then wipeout the geth with destroy. Cause a bunch of AIs with 300 years of history killing any organic, are now suddenly all peaceful with reaper code upgrades makes all kinds of sense.
When an AI admits it is a freaking reaper and then tries to convince you destroy is the worst choice....you go with the "worst choice".
Destroy is the only option.
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Post by andydandymandy on May 18, 2021 19:21:09 GMT
Destroy is easily the most short-sighted ending and I heavily question anyone's intelligence if they still believe it to be the "true" and "logical" ending. There is nothing true or logical about the ending of ME3, no matter what "choice" you pick.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 20:10:18 GMT
The geth should be toast once they upload the reaper code. Either I stop Legion and let the quarians wipeout them or I let Legion continue and then wipeout the geth with destroy. Cause a bunch of AIs with 300 years of history killing any organic, are now suddenly all peaceful with reaper code upgrades makes all kinds of sense. When an AI admits it is a freaking reaper and then tries to convince you destroy is the worst choice....you go with the "worst choice". Destroy is the only option. The correct and only option is to just play ME3MP. But since they didn't include it then I would say, if someone felt like they HAD to play ME3 I would honestly tell them to stop after beating the Cerberus base where you fight Kai Lang and just do the Citadel DLC.
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Post by andydandymandy on May 18, 2021 22:02:05 GMT
The geth should be toast once they upload the reaper code. Either I stop Legion and let the quarians wipeout them or I let Legion continue and then wipeout the geth with destroy. Cause a bunch of AIs with 300 years of history killing any organic, are now suddenly all peaceful with reaper code upgrades makes all kinds of sense. When an AI admits it is a freaking reaper and then tries to convince you destroy is the worst choice....you go with the "worst choice". Destroy is the only option. The correct and only option is to just play ME3MP. But since they didn't include it then I would say, if someone felt like they HAD to play ME3 I would honestly tell them to stop after beating the Cerberus base where you fight Kai Lang and just do the Citadel DLC. I don't think you can do the Citadel DLC once you start the Cerberus base mission, because it immediately locks you into Priority Earth until you finish the game then it resets it right back to before the Cerberus base mission so you can complete any unfinished content.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 18, 2021 22:03:24 GMT
Destroy is easily the most short-sighted ending and I heavily question anyone's intelligence if they still believe it to be the "true" and "logical" ending. Sure. I too would much prefer becoming Master of the Universe, or the Great Morpheus. Nothing makes me happier than making decisions for other people against their will. it's funny because, Destroy is is the exact same thing. You're making your own selfish decision against the will of literally every sentient space-faring civilization in the galaxy. It's not exactly a galactic committee present to make the final choice.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 18, 2021 22:11:53 GMT
Destroy isn't great, but it's the least garbage ending. It's still bad for the writers so obviously taking the geth hostage against the player. I could practically hear someone say "Go ahead! Shoot that thing and the toasters get it!" Synthesis is complete non sequitur nonsense. Organics are remote-implanted with cybernetics and this somehow, in an unexplained way, solves the dilemma of organics creating synthetics that will eventually kill them? There is no logical connection between A and B here. Also, the message it sends is more than problematic. "You, the invaded, must become more like the invader to be left in peace. Don't bother, we don't need your consent." And Control. A super powerful AI controlling the reapers that is based on Shepard's personality. Whew. Let's hope that Shepard never made a single renegade decision because otherwise the new Shep-Omnissiah might just do the same. But instead of shoving a mercenary out of the window, it has a reaper fleet. Do you feel good? EDIT: I forgot Refuse! Probably the most pointless of all. It just delays the solution by one cycle and goodness knows how many million or trillion deaths, only for some other guy to get to pick between Destroy/Synthesis/Control again. Refusal doesn't delay the solution of anything. If you carefully read between the lines in the Stargazer epilogue, it's presumed the future races didn't even use the Crucible the way it's used in the ending-- or at least in the rudimentary way that we think about it. The caveat is that next time around, the cycle had completely and utterly prepared themselves for the Reapers, to such an extent, that they aren't forced to choose what the Catalyst had previously proposed to Shepard. It's pretty simple to imagine. Shepard's cycle were too mired by time and bureaucratic shuffling to conventionally fight the Reapers in any way. The succeeding cycle, with all the knowledge and data sufficiently at their disposal, have all the the prep time in the world to come up properly with their own strategy,--n the exact way they all want to and agree to-- of stopping the Reapers without the Starchild's determining.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 18, 2021 22:18:08 GMT
The geth should be toast once they upload the reaper code. Either I stop Legion and let the quarians wipeout them or I let Legion continue and then wipeout the geth with destroy. Cause a bunch of AIs with 300 years of history killing any organic, are now suddenly all peaceful with reaper code upgrades makes all kinds of sense. When an AI admits it is a freaking reaper and then tries to convince you destroy is the worst choice....you go with the "worst choice". Destroy is the only option. Destroy fails to to solve the organic-synthetic problem. It fails to solve much of anything, really. All it does is...destroy. Again, extremely short-sighted. Shepard essentially leaves behind a landfill of toxic waste.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by mikaelnovasun on May 18, 2021 22:23:37 GMT
Sure. I too would much prefer becoming Master of the Universe, or the Great Morpheus. Nothing makes me happier than making decisions for other people against their will. it's funny because, Destroy is is the exact same thing. You're making your own selfish decision against the will of literally every sentient space-faring civilization in the galaxy. Really? What was the idea behind forming an alliance between all the races? It wasn't turning them all into organic synthetic hybrids; this is literally what the reapers are doing to their victims. How it is seen as a moral and just decision is lost on me. Nor Shepard becoming god in reaper form, and enforcing his/her idea of order on the galaxy(I guess if you like fascism). And even in that case it isn't Shepard, it is an AI based on his/her personality. How could leaving an AI in charge for millions of years with little to no connection to its "former" humanity and a reaper army go wrong.... The crucible is thought to be weapon that can destroy the Reapers. Every race ends up joining Shepard in the goal of completing the crucible to DESTROY the reapers.
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Post by colfoley on May 18, 2021 22:34:54 GMT
The geth should be toast once they upload the reaper code. Either I stop Legion and let the quarians wipeout them or I let Legion continue and then wipeout the geth with destroy. Cause a bunch of AIs with 300 years of history killing any organic, are now suddenly all peaceful with reaper code upgrades makes all kinds of sense. When an AI admits it is a freaking reaper and then tries to convince you destroy is the worst choice....you go with the "worst choice". Destroy is the only option. Destroy fails to to solve the organic-synthetic problem. It fails to solve much of anything, really. All it does is...destroy. Again, extremely short-sighted. Shepard essentially leaves behind a landfill of toxic waste. That's only if you except the Catalysts logic about the situation in the first place. Actually I did realize there is two rather compelling pieces of evidence against that to. First the obvious Quarians working with the Geth issue in 3 which you can pull off;...and then Shepard's line to the Dalatrass, 'you can't condemn an entire species based on what might happen.'
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