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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 22, 2021 19:11:52 GMT
Geth's individuality by Reaper code is a bad written Mcguffin. I would prefer if they remained like in ME2 and the peace was a mere cease-fire while the bigger conflict was dealt with. but the geth didn't become individuals because of the Reaper code. Yeah. As Shepard says, the Geth were already on that path and the Reaper upgrade just sped it along. We even see that in ME2, from the talks with Legion to the Heretic Station to even things like having no answer why he used Shepard’s armor.
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Post by Walter Black on May 22, 2021 21:06:27 GMT
For all it's problems, I would have taken the original Dark Energy ending over the Catalyst any day.
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Post by andydandymandy on May 22, 2021 23:14:03 GMT
For all it's problems, I would have taken the original Dark Energy ending over the Catalyst any day. I agree.
At least the Dark Energy ending had the potential to be much cleaner and less convoluted then the Catalyst.
The Catalyst and all the "choices" offered to Shepard were all convoluted gobbledygook nonsense.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 22, 2021 23:50:00 GMT
For all it's problems, I would have taken the original Dark Energy ending over the Catalyst any day. I agree.
At least the Dark Energy ending had the potential to be much cleaner and less convoluted then the Catalyst.
The Catalyst and all the "choices" offered to Shepard were all convoluted gobbledygook nonsense.
How? If anything it is more convoluted and egostroking, since humans are so superspecialawesome that turning them into a Reaper would fix what billions of other races turned into REapers couldn't. Or "Yo dawg I heard you're threatened by Dark Energy so we left devices that operated on Dark Energy to make you use Dark Energy so we could stop you from increasing Dark Energy." being the Reaper logic. At least the current Catalyst's mindset makes a certain kind of sense, where if he followed Dark Energy plot logic he'd leave synthetics around each cycle.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 1:43:31 GMT
Spicy take: people who defend ME3 writing, specially the endings, are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
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Post by Walter Black on May 23, 2021 14:31:12 GMT
I agree.
At least the Dark Energy ending had the potential to be much cleaner and less convoluted then the Catalyst.
The Catalyst and all the "choices" offered to Shepard were all convoluted gobbledygook nonsense.
How? If anything it is more convoluted and egostroking, since humans are so superspecialawesome that turning them into a Reaper would fix what billions of other races turned into REapers couldn't. Or "Yo dawg I heard you're threatened by Dark Energy so we left devices that operated on Dark Energy to make you use Dark Energy so we could stop you from increasing Dark Energy." being the Reaper logic. At least the current Catalyst's mindset makes a certain kind of sense, where if he followed Dark Energy plot logic he'd leave synthetics around each cycle. Like I said, "for all it's problems". The Dark Energy plot affects every major race in the galaxy, whereas the geth pose the only real opposition to organics prior to the return of the Reapers. Kind of hard to suddenly make organics vs synthetics your main conflict, when it only fits the themes of two races in the current (at the time) setting. To me, the choices of making humanity an apex Reaper versus trusting in yourselves represents the logical conclusions of Renegade (ruthless pragmatism, force and short sighted desparation) and Paragon (blind idealism, diplomacy, and compromise) philosophies.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 24, 2021 4:55:25 GMT
"Organics vs Synthetics" *could* have worked if, instead of being framed as an objectively true thing that the player has to accept by default, it were framed similarly to the way it is in Star Trek: Picard (ie, as an unconfirmed bias from parties on both sides of the question), and the Reapers were there to exterminate organic life and invite synthetic beings like the Geth to join a wider, synthetic-only civilisation.
You could even leave the major plot points of ME3 broadly the same, and the choices Shepard made throughout the game, particularly regarding AI, would serve as either confirmation or a refutation of the Reaper philosophy. A Shepard who fostered alliances and united the galaxy could point to that evidence to potentially convince the Reapers that peace is possible, and maybe even get them to leave, while a Shepard who made violent choices like wiping out the Geth would not have that option.
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 31, 2021 21:14:39 GMT
The Mass Effect Trilogy's largely pretty good actually.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 6, 2021 13:44:49 GMT
Cant stand Ashley/Kaiden cameo in ME2. The meeting in Horizon made no sense, she/he was stung by a collector swarm and was clearly paralysed at the start of the mission but their fine by the end.
The dialogue was even worse though
Ashley/Kaiden: "Shepard ur working for Cerberus!?! Cerberus is evil, I can't trust you!"
Shepard: "I don't work for Cerberus, I was in a coma for 2 years and now I'm trying to save human colonies, Cerberus are only funding my efforts"
Ashley (who hates Aliens in ME1): "But Cerberus hate aliens and are against the council, how can you side with them"
Shepard: "I'm not...The council don't want to help and Cerberus are willing to fund my efforts thats it, I still dont trust them"
Ashley/Kaiden: "Cerberus are the enemy of the alliance, how can you work with them Shepard!?!"
Shepard: "Because I'm trying to save lives here, the council won't even believe the reapers are real and actively hid what happened"
Garrus: "Ashley/Kaiden I think ur letting ur hatred of Cerberus cloud ur judgment, ur not seeing the big picture here"
Ashley/Kaiden: "I at least stay loyal to the alliance and humanity" *proceeds to bugger off.
Why couldn't I leave both of them on Virmire and while ur at it send vega back in time and ship him there as well
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Post by themikefest on Aug 6, 2021 17:24:13 GMT
ah yes Horizon.
How different would that scene have been if the t'soni asari told the Alliance about Shepard's corpse being in Cerberus hands? If she was worried about any negative feedback, send Shepard's armor back as proof since it also has Shepard's dna on it. Whether the Alliance believes it or not, is up to them. They would also decide to tell A/K or not.
Or better yet, how different would the scene have been if Shepard were to see t'soni before going to Horizon? What would the reaction be from A/K when hearing the asari played a role in Shepard's corpse being in the hands of Cerberus?
Either way, the scene was crap. A/K turning stupid after hearing the word Cerberus and Shepard giving a lame excuse.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 6, 2021 18:23:35 GMT
ah yes Horizon. How different would that scene have been if the t'soni asari told the Alliance about Shepard's corpse being in Cerberus hands? If she was worried about any negative feedback, send Shepard's armor back as proof since it also has Shepard's dna on it. Whether the Alliance believes it or not, is up to them. They would also decide to tell A/K or not. Or better yet, how different would the scene have been if Shepard were to see t'soni before going to Horizon? What would the reaction be from A/K when hearing the asari played a role in Shepard's corpse being in the hands of Cerberus? Either way, the scene was crap. A/K turning stupid after hearing the word Cerberus and Shepard giving a lame excuse. You have plenty of time to fill them in before Horizon so I'm not sure why what Liara did or didn't do would matter.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 6, 2021 20:19:40 GMT
and while ur at it send vega back in time and ship him there as well I was with you 100% until this. Poor Vega I guess that's my hot take. Vega is awesome. Edit: does the time stamp on that quote say Jun 24, 2019 for anyone else? ...did I go back in time? ...did ALTBOULI?
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2021 20:35:15 GMT
Cant stand Ashley/Kaiden cameo in ME2. The meeting in Horizon made no sense, she/he was stung by a collector swarm and was clearly paralysed at the start of the mission but their fine by the end. The dialogue was even worse though Ashley/Kaiden: "Shepard ur working for Cerberus!?! Cerberus is evil, I can't trust you!" Shepard: "I don't work for Cerberus, I was in a coma for 2 years and now I'm trying to save human colonies, Cerberus are only funding my efforts" Ashley (who hates Aliens in ME1): "But Cerberus hate aliens and are against the council, how can you side with them" Shepard: "I'm not...The council don't want to help and Cerberus are willing to fund my efforts thats it, I still dont trust them" Ashley/Kaiden: "Cerberus are the enemy of the alliance, how can you work with them Shepard!?!" Shepard: "Because I'm trying to save lives here, the council won't even believe the reapers are real and actively hid what happened" Garrus: "Ashley/Kaiden I think ur letting ur hatred of Cerberus cloud ur judgment, ur not seeing the big picture here" Ashley/Kaiden: "I at least stay loyal to the alliance and humanity" *proceeds to bugger off. Why couldn't I leave both of them on Virmire and while ur at it send vega back in time and ship him there as well Didn't Ashley take a dim view of Terra Firma in ME 1? Obviously its been ages since I played her in my party with Terra Firma and then I think Garrus was the one who bitched about them on my LE playthrough...or Wrex. and while ur at it send vega back in time and ship him there as well I was with you 100% until this. Poor Vega I guess that's my hot take. Vega is awesome. Edit: does the time stamp on that quote say Jun 24, 2019 for anyone else? ...did I go back in time? ...did ALTBOULI ? Dammit and this is why you should read a post fully before liking it and then you feel awkward for wanting to take it away. But yes Vega is my third favorite Character in the trilogy and probably my 5th in the entire series and I wish the man were a proper romance instead of that weird drunken thing in Citadel...actually though there is another thing to I should mention in the hot take scene I do rather like the scene where Shepard starts flirting with him when he visits the appartment "What would it take to convince you?" Woof. And just another reason why I like Vega because he did more or less stick to his guns, it did take a lot of convincing.... And yeah I went back in time too.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 6, 2021 20:41:11 GMT
I think it's pretty well accepted that the Horizon conversation sucks. Not that much spice there. I personally think the writers butchered Shepard's character more than the VS's with those aweful dialogue lines but those are details. One thing I don't have a problem with, which ALTBOULI mentions is that the VS is there at the end and fine. After all, the other colonists that were in stasis seem to be fine as well. The stasis probably dissipates as the ship leaves. If anything, the only weird thing is that no other colonists (except for the rude dude) show up in that scene.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2021 20:43:12 GMT
I think it's pretty well accepted that the Horizon conversation sucks. Not that much spice there. I personally think the writers butchered Shepard's character more than the VS's with those aweful dialogue lines but those are details. One thing I don't have a problem with, which ALTBOULI mentions is that the VS is there at the end and fine. After all, the other colonists that were in stasis seem to be fine as well. The stasis probably dissipates as the ship leaves. If anything, the only weird thing is that no other colonists (except for the rude dude) show up in that scene. I guess this could mostly be fine since I was mostly fine with Shepard's portrayal in that convo.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 6, 2021 20:54:58 GMT
and while ur at it send vega back in time and ship him there as well I was with you 100% until this. Poor Vega I guess that's my hot take. Vega is awesome. Edit: does the time stamp on that quote say Jun 24, 2019 for anyone else? ...did I go back in time? ...did ALTBOULI ? Perhaps you edited my quote when you hit reply? PS Vega sucks I will accumulate renegade points and punch Vega 100% of the time (even if im doing a paragon playthrough, entirely worth it!)
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 6, 2021 20:56:47 GMT
Cant stand Ashley/Kaiden cameo in ME2. The meeting in Horizon made no sense, she/he was stung by a collector swarm and was clearly paralysed at the start of the mission but their fine by the end. The dialogue was even worse though Ashley/Kaiden: "Shepard ur working for Cerberus!?! Cerberus is evil, I can't trust you!" Shepard: "I don't work for Cerberus, I was in a coma for 2 years and now I'm trying to save human colonies, Cerberus are only funding my efforts" Ashley (who hates Aliens in ME1): "But Cerberus hate aliens and are against the council, how can you side with them" Shepard: "I'm not...The council don't want to help and Cerberus are willing to fund my efforts thats it, I still dont trust them" Ashley/Kaiden: "Cerberus are the enemy of the alliance, how can you work with them Shepard!?!" Shepard: "Because I'm trying to save lives here, the council won't even believe the reapers are real and actively hid what happened" Garrus: "Ashley/Kaiden I think ur letting ur hatred of Cerberus cloud ur judgment, ur not seeing the big picture here" Ashley/Kaiden: "I at least stay loyal to the alliance and humanity" *proceeds to bugger off. Why couldn't I leave both of them on Virmire and while ur at it send vega back in time and ship him there as well Didn't Ashley take a dim view of Terra Firma in ME 1? Obviously its been ages since I played her in my party with Terra Firma and then I think Garrus was the one who bitched about them on my LE playthrough...or Wrex. I was with you 100% until this. Poor Vega I guess that's my hot take. Vega is awesome. Edit: does the time stamp on that quote say Jun 24, 2019 for anyone else? ...did I go back in time? ...did ALTBOULI ? Dammit and this is why you should read a post fully before liking it and then you feel awkward for wanting to take it away. But yes Vega is my third favorite Character in the trilogy and probably my 5th in the entire series and I wish the man were a proper romance instead of that weird drunken thing in Citadel...actually though there is another thing to I should mention in the hot take scene I do rather like the scene where Shepard starts flirting with him when he visits the appartment "What would it take to convince you?" Woof. And just another reason why I like Vega because he did more or less stick to his guns, it did take a lot of convincing.... And yeah I went back in time too. No idea I just remember Ashley being quite anti-alien, she particularly hated Liara
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 6, 2021 20:57:23 GMT
Perhaps you edited my quote when you hit reply? Nope. Highlighted the awful part and hit "quick quote". Edit: Aaaand it did it again. WTF. Edit again: I tried it with other users' posts and theirs were timestamped correctly. It's just altbouli.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2021 20:58:45 GMT
Didn't Ashley take a dim view of Terra Firma in ME 1? Obviously its been ages since I played her in my party with Terra Firma and then I think Garrus was the one who bitched about them on my LE playthrough...or Wrex. Dammit and this is why you should read a post fully before liking it and then you feel awkward for wanting to take it away. But yes Vega is my third favorite Character in the trilogy and probably my 5th in the entire series and I wish the man were a proper romance instead of that weird drunken thing in Citadel...actually though there is another thing to I should mention in the hot take scene I do rather like the scene where Shepard starts flirting with him when he visits the appartment "What would it take to convince you?" Woof. And just another reason why I like Vega because he did more or less stick to his guns, it did take a lot of convincing.... And yeah I went back in time too. No idea I just remember Ashley being quite anti-alien, she particularly hated Liara well Liara was acting like a bit of a thot.... so...
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 6, 2021 21:13:50 GMT
No idea I just remember Ashley being quite anti-alien, she particularly hated Liara well Liara was acting like a bit of a thot.... so... Liara > Tali >>>>>>>>>>>>Ashley And while were discussing useless/annoying crewmates, Mordin is highly overrated and I felt very little for what happened to him in the end, dude is a war criminal. Jacob on the other hand has ur back from the start and imo is 1 of the better ME2 squad-mates based on personality/story with Zaeed being the best.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 6, 2021 21:16:25 GMT
I think it's pretty well accepted that the Horizon conversation sucks. Not that much spice there. I personally think the writers butchered Shepard's character more than the VS's with those aweful dialogue lines but those are details. One thing I don't have a problem with, which ALTBOULI mentions is that the VS is there at the end and fine. After all, the other colonists that were in stasis seem to be fine as well. The stasis probably dissipates as the ship leaves. If anything, the only weird thing is that no other colonists (except for the rude dude) show up in that scene. What other colonists, the only 1 we see get stung/ paralysed and is fine the next minute on Horizon is Ashley, we dont see anyone else on Horizon except for the mechanic who was hiding and didnt get stung in the first place
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 6, 2021 21:17:08 GMT
Jacob on the other hand has ur back from the start and imo is 1 of the better ME2 squad-mates based on personality/story Oh, I beg to differ, time traveler.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 6, 2021 21:30:40 GMT
I think it's pretty well accepted that the Horizon conversation sucks. Not that much spice there. I personally think the writers butchered Shepard's character more than the VS's with those aweful dialogue lines but those are details. One thing I don't have a problem with, which ALTBOULI mentions is that the VS is there at the end and fine. After all, the other colonists that were in stasis seem to be fine as well. The stasis probably dissipates as the ship leaves. If anything, the only weird thing is that no other colonists (except for the rude dude) show up in that scene. What other colonists, the only 1 we see get stung/ paralysed and is fine the next minute on Horizon is Ashley, we dont see anyone else on Horizon except for the mechanic who was hiding and didnt get stung in the first place As you walk through the Horizon level, you see several colonists in stasis. IIRC Shep and team even comment on them.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 6, 2021 21:32:56 GMT
Didn't Ashley take a dim view of Terra Firma in ME 1? instead of that weird drunken thing in Citadel Yes, she is quite vocal about her dislike of groups like Terra Firma. As for that "weird drunken thing", that's called rape.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 6, 2021 21:34:48 GMT
Didn't Ashley take a dim view of Terra Firma in ME 1? Obviously its been ages since I played her in my party with Terra Firma and then I think Garrus was the one who bitched about them on my LE playthrough...or Wrex. Dammit and this is why you should read a post fully before liking it and then you feel awkward for wanting to take it away. But yes Vega is my third favorite Character in the trilogy and probably my 5th in the entire series and I wish the man were a proper romance instead of that weird drunken thing in Citadel...actually though there is another thing to I should mention in the hot take scene I do rather like the scene where Shepard starts flirting with him when he visits the appartment "What would it take to convince you?" Woof. And just another reason why I like Vega because he did more or less stick to his guns, it did take a lot of convincing.... And yeah I went back in time too. No idea I just remember Ashley being quite anti-alien, she particularly hated Liara Depends on the alien. She is very wary of Turians (which we learn is due to her family's history) and krogan (most people are), but others like quarians she is nothing but nice towards (and in ME3 is even okay if Shepard leaves her for Tali since she sees her as a little sister) and asari (so long as you aren't romancing her and Liara at the same time).
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