azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Jun 16, 2021 16:15:03 GMT
Solas has no issues killing people standing in his way or an old friend to steal their powers. He only promised a few years of "peace". Once those few years are gone, there is no reasons for him not to start killing those that are a direct threat to his plans and that include the Inquisitor and those that still work for them.
In term of the game, it all depends on how long the timeskip is and what the game plot is about. I can see it happening in the intro (similar to BG1 showing Sarevok killing a Bhaalspawn) or in cutscenes during act transition (similar to Dragon Age Origins showing Loghain's scheming). Unless the game is post Solas success screwing up and almost everyone is dead already.
I don't believe the game will have the PC entangled with the Inquisition that much personally. People are expecting a "stop Solas" game, but that's not the vibe I'm getting from the pre-alpha concept/in-game arts shown so far.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 16:19:09 GMT
People are expecting a " stop Solas" game, but that's not the vibe I'm getting from the pre-alpha concept/in-game arts shown so far. Which in itself is a problem. I'm not a huge fan of it being DAI 2.0(except a downgrade), but that's better than treating a threat to reality as just a minor issue among many.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 16, 2021 16:36:32 GMT
I try to share my thoughts:
What we know:
Varric: "We got your back, I got your back." That means for me: the network that was ones the inquisition is behind you. That doesn't mean they are fighting with you but they are helping out of the shadow and Varric is the contact in the shadow. Because your back not by your side.
"the people in charge aren't addressed the issues" (or somthig like that it was) Varric:"Dragons, Deamon, Darksporn even the dread wolf" Does Varric enumerate the issues? I don't think so, because the people in charge know that Solas is a issue and in TN they adress it clearly.
So with that in mind. I think while the people in charge (4 factions/4 short stories) fighting Solas, we will wage a guerrilla war of all robin hood (joplin) against the real evil. Varric: "a kind of person they never see coming" We are not dealing with just one person here as the evil.
Varric:"there is always someone bent on breaking the world" If he means Solas what i think, at the beginning of the game Solas hasn't turn down the veil. If he does in the game, it went wrong and the evil get out. but what I rather think, is that the evil is already there and solas has no opportunity to turn down the veil.
"You don't have power" This is definitely a matter of interpretation. Is power a title or force? For me power is more force, so we aren't a crow or mortalitasi as example.
Solas:"they called me the draed wolf what will they call you when this is over." That with the puzzle pieces from above: I think we will get a bad title as well at the end. They will named us because they don't see what good think we have actually done. the hero doesn't get the hymns of praise.
back to the actual question. Solas, the inqusition and the inquisitor will be part of the game, but we won't see them much. Solas speak with the new protagonist. i hope the inquisitor will be there as well. But the game focus on a greater evil.
A last think they were often say original. I hope that mean they take a good look at DAO.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 16, 2021 16:39:52 GMT
People are expecting a " stop Solas" game, but that's not the vibe I'm getting from the pre-alpha concept/in-game arts shown so far. While I agree with the rest of your post, I disagree on this point. The last two trailers have featured Solas pretty prominently and he is the most pressing threat facing the world. The concept sets that they’ve shared have simply depicted either characters or possible origins for the hero.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 16, 2021 17:03:39 GMT
Scenes such as IQ getting a report of the new PC’s progress from Charter I can see that. I picture Charter as the leader of Inquisition forces in Tevinter and Hardings function is a field agent who recruits capable people for the fight against Solas and the new hero is newest one she tries to recruit.
If she does Solas will know that. We will never be actually recuited. I see Varric stumble upon us, while tending to one of his spies.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 17:05:53 GMT
I can see that. I picture Charter as the leader of Inquisition forces in Tevinter and Hardings function is a field agent who recruits capable people for the fight against Solas and the new hero is newest one she tries to recruit.
If she does Solas will know that. We will never be actually recuited. I see Varric stumble upon us, while tending to one of his spies. How would Solas know that? Charter isn't one of his agents, and the secret Inquisition is made up of only people vetted.
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Post by xerrai on Jun 16, 2021 17:43:56 GMT
If she does Solas will know that. We will never be actually recuited. I see Varric stumble upon us, while tending to one of his spies. How would Solas know that? Charter isn't one of his agents, and the secret Inquisition is made up of only people vetted. I guess it would be because Charter was just under Leliana in the days of the Inquisition? At the very least one would think that Solas would know of her, at the minimum. It only makes sense that he would not only familiarize himself with the top brass of the Inquisition, but also those serving immediately beneath them. There is also a theory that Charter either is, was, or will become one of Solas's spies. Which....I mean, it's not impossible. But from what I heard, her reaction in Tevinter Nights seemed to be too genuine for me to think that. Her being a former agent also seems vastly improbable given how Solas treated Felassan. It's a not a theory I personally subscribe to, in any case. But the idea of Solas still having an agent in the Shadow Inquisition isn't entirely off the table either. Every organization worth it's salt tries to vet its members, but there are still times when they get infiltrated anyway. Against someone like Solas, are we really certain the Shadow Inquisition is spy-free? Or if it is, will it remain that way?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 17:54:36 GMT
How would Solas know that? Charter isn't one of his agents, and the secret Inquisition is made up of only people vetted. I guess it would be because Charter was just under Leliana in the days of the Inquisition? At the very least one would think that Solas would know of her, at the minimum. It only makes sense that he would not only familiarize himself with the top brass of the Inquisition, but also those serving immediately beneath them. There is also a theory that Charter either is, was, or will become one of Solas's spies. Which....I mean, it's not impossible. But from what I heard, her reaction in Tevinter Nights seemed to be too genuine for me to think that. Her being a former agent also seems vastly improbable given how Solas treated Felassan. It's a not a theory I personally subscribe to, in any case. But the idea of Solas still having an agent in the Shadow Inquisition isn't entirely off the table either. Every organization worth it's salt tries to vet its members, but there are still times when they get infiltrated anyway. Against someone like Solas, are we really certain the Shadow Inquisition is spy-free? Or if it is, will it remain that way? If we continued as the Inquisitor and the Inquisition, I could see that becoming an issue. After all that was a pro for disbanding and a con for not, while influence was a con for disbanding and a pro for not. So I could've seen if we didn't disband, in some cases we'd do better because we have more resources and allies while in other cases we wouldn't because he has spies. Meanwhile if we did, in some cases we'd do better because he didn't have spies but in other cases we wouldn't because we don't have the resources or allies. Now though, with regardless of choice since either way there is a shadow Inquisition, I suspect like everything else it'll just be swept under the rug because screw following that we need to be someone new. At most I see the Inquisition failing either way, just for different reasons (either from within with spies or outside with forces due to lack of support). After that stab in the back don't worry though, because some rando will totally fix everything.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 16, 2021 18:00:37 GMT
If she does Solas will know that. We will never be actually recuited. I see Varric stumble upon us, while tending to one of his spies. How would Solas know that? Charter isn't one of his agents, and the secret Inquisition is made up of only people vetted. Solas know the main people of the old inquistion. people as charter harding and the rest of the gang. so his spies keep an eye on these people. You follow people and see who they meet. the only possibility is that you run into someone from the inquisition and it looks like a fleeting encounter to the spy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 18:05:26 GMT
How would Solas know that? Charter isn't one of his agents, and the secret Inquisition is made up of only people vetted. Solas know the main people of the old inquistion. people as charter harding and the rest of the gang. so his spies keep an eye on these people. You follow people and see who they meet. the only possibility is that you run into someone from the inquisition and it looks like a fleeting encounter to the spy. Well, I just remembered the comics actually let him see pretty much anyone with his magic mirror, even people he has no idea about (not to mention his legions of spirits spying for him all over the Fade), so this whole discussion is pretty pointless. Just another way they godmodded him and made defeating him impossible without ruining the story and/or characters.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jun 16, 2021 19:31:11 GMT
I don't believe the game will have the PC entangled with the Inquisition that much personally. People are expecting a " stop Solas" game, but that's not the vibe I'm getting from the pre-alpha concept/in-game arts shown so far. I hear you. Red Lyrium, the blight, and those odd blighted monsters from the pools... doesn't sound like anything Solas would get involved with. Remember that The Executors are an enemy of Solas, and we have no idea why they are interested or what their intentions are. They also haven't shown up in the marketing as a faction that will be "fighting by your side." So my money is on them, and them connecting with the Evanuris, or whoever those two figures are in the latest mural. Gosh, there is so much chaos. Qunari, red lyrium, Solas, The Executors, possibly The Evanuris... I can see why the world was on fire in the DWR mural.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 16, 2021 19:53:05 GMT
I hear you. Red Lyrium, the blight, and those odd blighted monsters from the pools... doesn't sound like anything Solas would get involved with. There is that idea that he is going to use the idol to give himself the power he needs and that is why he didn't want the Inquisitor to see what he becomes. He may well be intending to sacrifice himself to the taint to bring his plan to fruition, whether that be simply tearing down the Veil or, more likely, how he intends dealing with the Evanuris. It could be that is how our new hero will cross paths with the Inquisition. So they are dealing with the problem of the weird pools and the origins of red lyrium and that leads them to the lyrium idol, at which point they discover that they have a mutual interest in Solas. They could well have had an Executor helping them because they weren't given the warning he gave to Charter and so have no reason to mistrust them.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 16, 2021 20:37:10 GMT
People are expecting a " stop Solas" game, but that's not the vibe I'm getting from the pre-alpha concept/in-game arts shown so far. Which in itself is a problem. I'm not a huge fan of it being DAI 2.0(except a downgrade), but that's better than treating a threat to reality as just a minor issue among many. Solas is not attacking anyone outside getting ride of people who are trying to stop him or getting in his way and he doesn't need to be physically there to do that. Red lyrium, Darkspawns, Qunari invasion, monsters infested ruins will always appear more important threats in-game. Corypheus had real armies. Solas plays in the shadows and use people without them knowing. Solas is near omniscient with godlike powers and knowledge on top of it. The only time where it would make sense to pit him in a battle against the protagonist would be after he executed his plan and he is weakened. But nobody knows how, where and when he intend to do what he is planning and I don't see him sharing the info. Basically, "stopping Solas" requires either: - Solas to have an idiot ball, - lots of random luck, - working for Solas for most of the game and doing an "heel turn" at the end - working for an equally powerful entity that can protect you from him and knows as much as him The last one could work with Mythal, but my impression from DAO/DA2/Gaider's comic/etc is that she wanted the Veil down too... And the last two don't have much place for the Inquisitor/Inquisition outside cameos.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jun 16, 2021 21:10:50 GMT
There is that idea that he is going to use the idol to give himself the power he needs and that is why he didn't want the Inquisitor to see what he becomes. He may well be intending to sacrifice himself to the taint to bring his plan to fruition, whether that be simply tearing down the Veil or, more likely, how he intends dealing with the Evanuris. This is what confuses me. Solas is against using the blight and believes that anyone who uses it is a fool - and we have seen countless times why and how he is correct about that. But there may be something we don't know about him that makes him able to use it for his own ends without succumbing to the voices behind the blight/red lyrium. I also wonder if him absorbing Mythal also plays into this.
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Post by catcher on Jun 16, 2021 22:06:13 GMT
Actually I’d like to hear these details. We’re already screwed out of being the Inquisitor, so may as well look for a way it would suck less. Alright then. So I feel this scenario works just as well in a close-following sequel with the Inquisition still active or with a sequel set say a decade or more later with Solas already victorious and the Veil dismantled (or perhaps partially dismantled, with the Inquisitor having sacrificed themselves to stop Solas's plan from coming to complete fruition, perhaps in a... *ugh*... playable prologue). I would prefer the latter, with magic having flooded back into the world, society dramatically altered, and Solas ruling from on high in the flying castle we've seen in concept art, so I'm gonna be working from that, but it's easily modified. . . . If the first, then protag makes it out just in time, with the Dread Wolf attempting to follow, only for the Eluvian to explode before his snapping maw can close on the protag's leg. We celebrate, but the post-game slideshow narrator points out that nobody knows for sure that Solas is dead, and the resistance remains vigilant. If the second, then the protag never emerges and the Eluvians are destroyed. A memorial service is held. The slideshow narrator notes that those closest to the protag are still searching, still hoping. The End. Thanks for sharing. It takes real courage to throw something like this out in the open. I don't have anything as well developed but I do have six different ways DA4 could be written where the Inquisitor is not the Protagonist. In no particular order... 1: Designated Survivor. We've already talked around this one. The Inquisitor and team do whatever they are supposed to do to stop Fen'harel and fail/die. Varric has a letter to open in case of emergency with the Plan outlined. He just happens to know the right former Nobody for the job. 2: Plan B. The Inquisitor and his team are on Plan A. Instead of relying on just this one Plan to save reality, he/she/they have another plan and route it to Varric to find the right Tool for the Job. The Fortunate One might even be introduced unknowingly carrying said Plan and open it (totally by accident, of course ) and gets drafted. 3: The Greatest Story Never Told. Credit where credit is due, I got the name and some details from a Justice League : Unlimited episode I was watching with my kids. The Fortunate One just happens on another disaster that's just a by-product of Fen'Harel's plan, like say releasing the Forgotten Ones. While the Inquisitor cleans up her/his mess, the Fortunate One is cleaning one up the Inquisitor doesn't know about. 4: The Aragorn Gambit. The Inquisitor and team are running interference so Fen'Harel never turns his burning eyes on the Fortunate One who is executing the real Plan. We've talked about this one. There is one variant where the Fortunate One is actually doing the interference for the Inquisitor. That would be a twist. 5: Lower Decks. Like the Star Trek episode and later series of the same name. The Fortunate One is just running part of a massive, decentralized scheme the shadow inquisition is trying to beat Fen'Harel. This one works because the plan needed to take down the Veil and somehow neutralize the Creators has the be HUGE, so the counter can also target multiple parts, understanding that if one part fails, then the whole scheme could be ruined. 6: The Trachenburg Plan. This was a plan used by the Sixth Coalition against Napoleon where they basically retreated from the large army lead by Napoleon and worked against his somewhat less capable generals seeking to slowly bleed the French Army dry while avoiding a disasterous defeat. The Fortunate One is not going head-to-head with Fen'Harel, but looking to find and defeat lesser helpers to drain just enough power to weaken the Dread Wolf. EDIT: Remembered a seventh option 7: The Face Turn. The Fortunate One IS one of Fen'Harel's lieutenants. Then she/he discovers some part of what the Wolf plans that just can't be countenanced and turns to the Light Side with some help against the worst of Fen'Harel's powers. Oiled up pecs and cute name for finishing move optional. Just a few thoughts from a hack...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 22:54:24 GMT
Which in itself is a problem. I'm not a huge fan of it being DAI 2.0(except a downgrade), but that's better than treating a threat to reality as just a minor issue among many. Solas is not attacking anyone outside getting ride of people who are trying to stop him or getting in his way and he doesn't need to be physically there to do that. Red lyrium, Darkspawns, Qunari invasion, monsters infested ruins will always appear more important threats in-game. Corypheus had real armies. Solas plays in the shadows and use people without them knowing. Solas is near omniscient with godlike powers and knowledge on top of it. The only time where it would make sense to pit him in a battle against the protagonist would be after he executed his plan and he is weakened. But nobody knows how, where and when he intend to do what he is planning and I don't see him sharing the info. Basically, "stopping Solas" requires either: - Solas to have an idiot ball, - lots of random luck, - working for Solas for most of the game and doing an "heel turn" at the end - working for an equally powerful entity that can protect you from him and knows as much as him The last one could work with Mythal, but my impression from DAO/DA2/Gaider's comic/etc is that she wanted the Veil down too... And the last two don't have much place for the Inquisitor/Inquisition outside cameos. It’s going to be the first two. That’s what happened last time BioWare made a game with villains this strong. I doubt he will succeed, since that screws up the world for the future. Plus, you know, we’d all be dead then.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 16, 2021 23:17:43 GMT
I doubt he will succeed, since that screws up the world for the future. Plus, you know, we’d all be dead then. That's what Solas claims, but he tends to be very wrong with the long term forecasts of his plans... Sandal's prophecies in DA2 suggest nothing will change outside more magic around: " One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 17, 2021 0:06:27 GMT
I doubt he will succeed, since that screws up the world for the future. Plus, you know, we’d all be dead then. That's what Solas claims, but he tends to be very wrong with the long term forecasts of his plans... Sandal's prophecies in DA2 suggest nothing will change outside more magic around: " One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide." I put no faith in Sandal's prophecy, or any of the prophecies in DA, since all of them have proven to be wrong before. Especially with vague terminology like that, since I imagine everyone could mean each race. So if 99.99% of people died, but the other 0.01% survived and are "like they were" that prophecy is true but certainly doesn't mean everyone's fine. Also why would Solas say that it would kill everyone if it wouldn't? Or even if he didn't know? It does him no good to say that in either case, meanwhile creates obstacles he didn't have before.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 17, 2021 1:25:19 GMT
Also why would Solas say that it would kill everyone if it wouldn't? Or even if he didn't know? It does him no good to say that in either case, meanwhile creates obstacles he didn't have before. That's what he believes will happen (everyone dying). Just like he believed Corypheus would die "booting up" the foci and he would just have to swoop in and pick it up. Just like he believed the Elves would be fine and freed after he put up the Veil instead of their entire culture, based entirely on magic, getting destroyed causing even more in-fighting between the survivors and weakening them which lead to Tevinter enslaving most of them (again). Solas always miscalculates. It fits into the "idiot ball" territory (it's caused by narcissism thought) and it works great with "random luck". Saying that, it doesn't mean there will be no damage or that the post no-Veil world won't be a shitshow...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 17, 2021 2:07:52 GMT
Also why would Solas say that it would kill everyone if it wouldn't? Or even if he didn't know? It does him no good to say that in either case, meanwhile creates obstacles he didn't have before. That's what he believes will happen (everyone dying). Just like he believed Corypheus would die "booting up" the foci and he would just have to swoop in and pick it up. Just like he believed the Elves would be fine and freed after he put up the Veil instead of their entire culture, based entirely on magic, getting destroyed causing even more in-fighting between the survivors and weakening them which lead to Tevinter enslaving most of them (again). Solas always miscalculates. It fits into the "idiot ball" territory (it's caused by narcissism thought) and it works great with "random luck". Saying that, it doesn't mean there will be no damage or that the post no-Veil world won't be a shitshow... But again, why say it if he doesn't know? It serves him no purpose. Granted telling at all doesn't, but especially if he doesn't know. In any event, still needs to be stopped whether it actually will or he is just thinking it will thus gambling. I really hope they don't have him succeed. It'll just be a final insult Trespasser gives us.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 17, 2021 3:05:18 GMT
Hanako, what WOULDN'T be insulting? Why don't you actually detail how you think DA4 should go?
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Post by Elhanan's Ghost on Jun 17, 2021 5:06:01 GMT
Solas can't be stopped. He will bring down the Veil and release the Fade.
5 years later, a Lord of Fortune will turn the Inquisitor into a rat, that will travel through time to acquire all 6 Infinity Stones and put everything back to how it was. Which was a mistake, and needs to be corrected.
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 17, 2021 5:50:50 GMT
Or - totally new approach - the DA4 protagonist will be a Chosen One with just the right superpower/artifact to counter Solas: immunity to petrifaction or some such.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 17, 2021 6:28:43 GMT
As much as that would be stupid and awful, it doesn't actually protect the protagonist from all the other ways there are to die, and Solas could still petrify anyone else.
Might as well just give them a random amulet of protection from literally all magic.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 17, 2021 6:34:59 GMT
Solas know the main people of the old inquistion. people as charter harding and the rest of the gang. so his spies keep an eye on these people. You follow people and see who they meet. the only possibility is that you run into someone from the inquisition and it looks like a fleeting encounter to the spy. Well, I just remembered the comics actually let him see pretty much anyone with his magic mirror, even people he has no idea about (not to mention his legions of spirits spying for him all over the Fade), so this whole discussion is pretty pointless. Just another way they godmodded him and made defeating him impossible without ruining the story and/or characters. David and Goliath.
We only have to find his week point his pride. He haven't the time to look for all people, so he take only the importen one.
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