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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 5:24:21 GMT
Because 1) despite being a Spectre, the default canon Shepard is an Alliance soldier, a Marine. Once a Marine always a Marine. As a Marine, you would have respect for your superior officers or even former superior officers - Anderson and Hackett. That's why. That's why you report your progress to them periodically during ME3. You're friends with Anderson whether you want to be or now. You report to Hackett whether you want to or not. The game even forces you to do that. You have a job to do. Soldiers also have a responsibility to disobey immoral and unethical orders, which using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers turned out to be since it commits complete genocide of countless synthetic races, and you just said genocide is completely irredeemable.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 16, 2021 10:12:09 GMT
Because 1) despite being a Spectre, the default canon Shepard is an Alliance soldier, a Marine. Once a Marine always a Marine. As a Marine, you would have respect for your superior officers or even former superior officers - Anderson and Hackett. That's why. That's why you report your progress to them periodically during ME3. You're friends with Anderson whether you want to be or now. You report to Hackett whether you want to or not. The game even forces you to do that. You have a job to do. Soldiers also have a responsibility to disobey immoral and unethical orders, which using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers turned out to be since it commits complete genocide of countless synthetic races, and you just said genocide is completely irredeemable. They're more like zombies, though. Imagine the trillions or quadrillions of souls you'd be putting the rest.
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t4rget
N2
Enkindle this!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 74 Likes: 347
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Post by t4rget on Jun 16, 2021 10:19:48 GMT
Because 1) despite being a Spectre, the default canon Shepard is an Alliance soldier, a Marine. Once a Marine always a Marine. As a Marine, you would have respect for your superior officers or even former superior officers - Anderson and Hackett. That's why. That's why you report your progress to them periodically during ME3. You're friends with Anderson whether you want to be or now. You report to Hackett whether you want to or not. The game even forces you to do that. You have a job to do. Soldiers also have a responsibility to disobey immoral and unethical orders, which using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers turned out to be since it commits complete genocide of countless synthetic races, and you just said genocide is completely irredeemable. Is it murder if I dismantle a toaster with an AI?
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Post by themikefest on Jun 16, 2021 11:26:40 GMT
Soldiers also have a responsibility to disobey immoral and unethical orders, which using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers turned out to be since it commits complete genocide of countless synthetic races, and you just said genocide is completely irredeemable. And would a soldier believe it's ethical, moral to change every organics dna when it's forced? And would a soldier believe it's ok to control the reapers after seeing what happened to TIM? That soldier has no restraints like thing. That soldier becomes thing part 2. What's to stop it from deciding to start the harvest again? Destroying the giant robots is the way to go. It leaves the galaxy to solve their own problems without having giant robots interfere. There is no genocide when choosing the red. The player knew that everyone couldn't be saved no matter what. The geth being wiped out is better than the reapers continuing with the harvest. Since you're so bent on believing there is genocide when choosing the red, is it genocide when the quarians wipeout the geth over Rannoch?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 13:18:49 GMT
Soldiers also have a responsibility to disobey immoral and unethical orders, which using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers turned out to be since it commits complete genocide of countless synthetic races, and you just said genocide is completely irredeemable. They're more like zombies, though. Imagine the trillions or quadrillions of souls you'd be putting the rest. Um, how are synthetic races like the Geth zombies? Is it murder if I dismantle a toaster with an AI? If it kills the AI, yes.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 13:22:12 GMT
Soldiers also have a responsibility to disobey immoral and unethical orders, which using the Crucible to destroy the Reapers turned out to be since it commits complete genocide of countless synthetic races, and you just said genocide is completely irredeemable. And would a soldier believe it's ethical, moral to change every organics dna when it's forced? And would a soldier believe it's ok to control the reapers after seeing what happened to TIM? That soldier has no restraints like thing. That soldier becomes thing part 2. What's to stop it from deciding to start the harvest again? Destroying the giant robots is the way to go. It leaves the galaxy to solve their own problems without having giant robots interfere. There is no genocide when choosing the red. The player knew that everyone couldn't be saved no matter what. The geth being wiped out is better than the reapers continuing with the harvest. Since you're so bent on believing there is genocide when choosing the red, is it genocide when the quarians wipeout the geth over Rannoch? There is genocide when choosing the red. Shepard becomes the biggest mass murderer in our cycle’s history. In all of galactic history second only to the Intelligence. You say Control makes Shepard thing part 2. Destroy does as well since they use similar methods for the same goal. Yes it is.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 16, 2021 13:32:58 GMT
Um, how are synthetic races like the Geth zombies? The Reapers are.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 13:36:21 GMT
Um, how are synthetic races like the Geth zombies? The Reapers are. Neat. Wasn’t referring to them in the part you quoted.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 16, 2021 13:37:53 GMT
Neat. Wasn’t referring to them in the part you quoted. You said "countless synthetic races", so I assumed you referred to more than the Geth alone, as they are a single race.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 16, 2021 13:42:34 GMT
There is genocide when choosing the red. Shepard becomes the biggest mass murderer in our cycle’s history. In all of galactic history second only to the Intelligence. You say Control makes Shepard thing part 2. Destroy does as well since they use similar methods for the same goal. Yes it is. When your Shepard chooses the green, is it ethical and moral that he/she forced the galaxy to have their dna changed?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 13:43:39 GMT
Neat. Wasn’t referring to them in the part you quoted. You said "countless synthetic races", so I assumed you referred to more than the Geth alone, as they are a single race. I was. There are also the Virtual Aliens and who knows how many others in the over 99% of the Milky Way our cycle hasn’t explored.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 13:44:35 GMT
There is genocide when choosing the red. Shepard becomes the biggest mass murderer in our cycle’s history. In all of galactic history second only to the Intelligence. You say Control makes Shepard thing part 2. Destroy does as well since they use similar methods for the same goal. Yes it is. When your Shepard chooses the green, is it ethical and moral that he/she forced the galaxy to have their dna changed? Moreso than if they chose the red.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 16, 2021 13:59:22 GMT
I was. There are also the Virtual Aliens and who knows how many others in the over 99% of the Milky Way our cycle hasn’t explored. We have no idea whether that does affect them, though. We know the Geth are, because they are infused with Reapers code, so is EDI. On the flip side, we have the deaths of Nth times "countless synthetic races" that will be avenged and Nth times countless organic races that will finally know rest.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 14:02:20 GMT
I was. There are also the Virtual Aliens and who knows how many others in the over 99% of the Milky Way our cycle hasn’t explored. We have no idea whether that does affect them, though. We know the Geth are, because they are infused with Reapers code, so is EDI. On the flip side, we have the deaths of Nth times "countless synthetic races" that will be avenged and Nth times countless organic races that will finally know rest. We do know. Catalyst told us. BioWare told us. Also the organics in Reapers aren’t alive so no need to rest. Now how about you actually address the point of my post you responded to that started this?
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Post by themikefest on Jun 16, 2021 14:09:47 GMT
You know what's cool/awesome/excellent? More people prefer the red than the green or blue.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 14:17:37 GMT
You know what's cool/awesome/excellent? More people prefer the red than the green or blue. Ah, good old argumentum ad populum fallacy. Most people once thought slavery/racism/sexism/homophobia/etc was a good thing too.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 16, 2021 14:28:08 GMT
We have no idea whether that does affect them, though. We know the Geth are, because they are infused with Reapers code, so is EDI. On the flip side, we have the deaths of Nth times "countless synthetic races" that will be avenged and Nth times countless organic races that will finally know rest. We do know. Catalyst told us. BioWare told us. Also the organics in Reapers aren’t alive so no need to rest. Now how about you actually address the point of my post you responded to that started this? First of all, you're trusting the Catalyst. Second, Reapers use the remains of countless organics and infuse them to the Reapers themselves. Those remains should be laid to rest, not turned to goo and certainly not infused inside the bodies of their murderers. It's no less than being a zombie. Similar for the husks, the brutes, the banshees etc.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 16, 2021 14:32:12 GMT
You know what's cool/awesome/excellent? More people prefer the red than the green or blue. Ah, good old argumentum ad populum fallacy. Most people once thought slavery/racism/sexism/homophobia/etc was a good thing too. Say whatever, but you know it's true. If the teaser is to be believed, Bioware agrees as well.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 14:32:51 GMT
We do know. Catalyst told us. BioWare told us. Also the organics in Reapers aren’t alive so no need to rest. Now how about you actually address the point of my post you responded to that started this? First of all, you're trusting the Catalyst. Second, Reapers use the remains of countless organics and infuse them to the Reapers themselves. Those remains should be laid to rest, not turned to goo and certainly not infused inside the bodies of their murderers. It's no less than being a zombie. Similar for the husks, the brutes, the banshees etc.
First off, so are you and anyone who picks Destroy. Second, billions of beings who are alive shouldn't be murdered to lay the dead to rest. So you aren't going to address the main part of my point. Considering you've said you were a soldier, that tells me a lot about you.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 14:35:10 GMT
Ah, good old argumentum ad populum fallacy. Most people once thought slavery/racism/sexism/homophobia/etc was a good thing too. Say whatever, but you know it's true. If the teaser is to be believed, Bioware agrees as well. Never said it wasn't true. The thing I posted was true too. True =/= right. As for Bioware, again I don't think anyone should take anything from that trailer as anything but metaphorical. And well my opinion of them has already turned negative, so I wouldn't be surprised if they sold the soul of the company to chase money. Isn't that what everyone who hates EA said would happen eventually anyway?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 16, 2021 14:40:59 GMT
First off, so are you and anyone who picks Destroy. I don't trust the Catalyst. But the original game and even the EC doesn't give me the option and only with meta game knowledge can I make that choice. My first choice, at the time, had been Synthesis, until I saw what it does. Second, billions of beings who are alive shouldn't be murdered to lay the dead to rest. "Potentially" billions of beings, whose very existence is illegal under council law and a threat to all organic life, would die. If you believe the Catalyst. So you aren't going to address the main part of my point. Considering you've said you were a soldier, that tells me a lot about you. What is your main point? Letting the Reapers live and any AI is against the law. The one race that tried to "peacefully" interact with organics, started doing so by, effectively, destroying the being that tried to transition into their existence. It's like saying that the Picard at the end of Star Trek: Picard, is the same as the person that was in command of the Enterprise. Which is simply not true.
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quarianmasterrace
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: QuarianMasteRace
Posts: 175 Likes: 612
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 16, 2021 14:48:39 GMT
You know what's cool/awesome/excellent? More people prefer the red than the green or blue. Ah, good old argumentum ad populum fallacy. Most people once thought slavery/racism/sexism/homophobia/etc was a good thing too. Kek major Auld Wulff vibes here. You didn't pick the same neapolitan ending as me so you're a racist sexist homophobe luddite genocide fetishist.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 14:49:22 GMT
First off, so are you and anyone who picks Destroy. I don't trust the Catalyst. But the original game and even the EC doesn't give me the option and only with meta game knowledge can I make that choice. My first choice, at the time, had been Synthesis, until I saw what it does. Second, billions of beings who are alive shouldn't be murdered to lay the dead to rest. "Potentially" billions of beings, whose very existence is illegal under council law and a threat to all organic life, would die. If you believe the Catalyst. So you aren't going to address the main part of my point. Considering you've said you were a soldier, that tells me a lot about you. What is your main point? Letting the Reapers live and any AI is against the law. The one race that tried to "peacefully" interact with organics, started doing so by, effectively, destroying the being that tried to transition into their existence. It's like saying that the Picard at the end of Star Trek: Picard, is the same as the person that was in command of the Enterprise. Which is simply not true. So you still rust the Catalyst when choosing Destroy. If you don't trust him, choose Refuse. Oh, so because their existence is illegal they should be mass murdered. Congratulations, you just supported every dictator who committed a genocide ever. Guess that means Hungary should kill all their LGBT people today since they made it illegal yesterday. The main point was countering the "Hackett/our superior said we should kill them so we must" argument by saying it is the responsibility of soldiers to not follow immoral or unethical orders. In this case, the order is to commit genocide/mass murder of innocent races/beings to eliminate the targets.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 16, 2021 14:50:30 GMT
Ah, good old argumentum ad populum fallacy. Most people once thought slavery/racism/sexism/homophobia/etc was a good thing too. Kek major Auld Wulff vibes here. You didn't pick the same neapolitan ending as me so you're a racist sexist homophobe luddite genocide fetishist. Never said that (though ironic people balk at this yet have no qualms saying people who pick Control support dictatorships or people who pick Synthesis are rapists).
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 16, 2021 15:06:16 GMT
So you still rust the Catalyst when choosing Destroy. If you don't trust him, choose Refuse. Only through meta knowledge, which is both stupid to rely on and gamebreaking. Oh, so because their existence is illegal they should be mass murdered. Congratulations, you just supported every dictator who committed a genocide ever. Guess that means Hungary should kill all their LGBT people today since they made it illegal yesterday. Under council law, it is not recognized as murder. All AI are to be terminated. No more than unplugging your PC is considered murder. I can't speak for what Hungary or its LGBTQ+ population should do, in that regard. It's not my place to talk about their internal politics. The main point was countering the "Hackett/our superior said we should kill them so we must" argument by saying it is the responsibility of soldiers to not follow immoral or unethical orders. In this case, the order is to commit genocide/mass murder of innocent races/beings to eliminate the targets. Again, if you believe the Catalyst that it will kill all AI regardless. Which I don't believe and we're not shown. The only AIs we do see malfunction are Reaper code dependent.
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