Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jul 21, 2021 19:23:42 GMT
Ugh, I hated that line from Javik. I hate any argument that is basically “To rise above monsters, you have to abandon your humanity.” I love the counter to that: “Only a human can destroy a monster. Only a human can dare hope to.” Even Nietzsche had something to say about gazing too long into the abyss...
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Post by Iakus on Jul 21, 2021 19:30:31 GMT
People can go "meh" "gah" and "feh" or "pleh" all they like. The bottom line is people didn't get a hookers and blow ending for the protagonist they were living vicariously through. I liked the fact the stakes were so high that there was no way to win without Shepard getting his/her hands dirty. People need to ingest better SF in their media and maybe they'd understand why a canon ending and pandering to small minded people will just make things worse. I mean didn't everyone learn from the emotional abuse they inflicted upon themselves with anthem? I play video games to escape life and be entertained. Not to angst.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 20:03:22 GMT
No matter what I do in my life, how stupid I think I am, how much I hate myself or do something completely embarrassing, I can take solace in the fact that I'm not one of the smooth brains who defends the worst piece of written fiction that has ever existed on the face of the earth. The same people who like the Last Jedi probably.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 21, 2021 20:55:49 GMT
People can go "meh" "gah" and "feh" or "pleh" all they like. The bottom line is people didn't get a hookers and blow ending for the protagonist they were living vicariously through. I liked the fact the stakes were so high that there was no way to win without Shepard getting his/her hands dirty. People need to ingest better SF in their media and maybe they'd understand why a canon ending and pandering to small minded people will just make things worse. I mean didn't everyone learn from the emotional abuse they inflicted upon themselves with anthem? I play video games to escape life and be entertained. Not to angst. Lol, that is the point of video games after all. 😉 |
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 21, 2021 21:12:19 GMT
No matter what I do in my life, how stupid I think I am, how much I hate myself or do something completely embarrassing, I can take solace in the fact that I'm not one of the smooth brains who defends the worst piece of written fiction that has ever existed on the face of the earth. The same people who like the Last Jedi probably. Honestly, those two and TLoU2, bundled together, are just the main ingredients of the shit fiction sandwich. Well, there's much more than can be added, like Kurtzman Trek and Chinballs' Dr. Who, but you get the gist. We haven't reached the point were Kurtzman Trek makes Trek implode, the same way the others have, but I am looking forward to it.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 21, 2021 21:19:09 GMT
No matter what I do in my life, how stupid I think I am, how much I hate myself or do something completely embarrassing, I can take solace in the fact that I'm not one of the smooth brains who defends the worst piece of written fiction that has ever existed on the face of the earth. The same people who like the Last Jedi probably. Honestly, those two and TLoU2, bundled together, are just the main ingredients of the shit fiction sandwich. Well, there's much more than can be added, like Kurtzman Trek and Chinballs' Dr. Who, but you get the gist. We haven't reached the point were Kurtzman Trek makes Trek implode, the same way the others have, but I am looking forward to it.
I think it started with Spec Ops: The Line. And Game of Thrones.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 21, 2021 21:29:13 GMT
Honestly, those two and TLoU2, bundled together, are just the main ingredients of the shit fiction sandwich. Well, there's much more than can be added, like Kurtzman Trek and Chinballs' Dr. Who, but you get the gist. We haven't reached the point were Kurtzman Trek makes Trek implode, the same way the others have, but I am looking forward to it.
I think it started with Spec Ops: The Line. And Game of Thrones. Well, Cpec Opc is interesting, in the fact that you are actually the villain of the game and the more you play the game, the more complicit you are to it, which is an interesting concept and I do believe it is executed well enough. It's not for everyone and, thankfully, it didn't ruin any big franchise. Was Spec Ops a big franchise? Like, it is the only game of the franchise it belongs to, that I know, if there's more than one.
Game of Thrones was SHIT! And I never liked it, to be honest. Because it was too transparent. Like, this person did this and that is going to make that person do that, so this person will have to be this smart to make it out of that situation, but if they're not they're dead, except John Snow, because if he dies, then that leave a narrative gap, as there's nobody else working against the Night King and we know that he's going to lose, so even if he dies, he's coming back. I remember, because my brother was very into it, when he told me that John died and what's going to happen and I straight up told him there's no way he's not coming back. The story would be fucked, without him, at that point, because no one else worked for that part.
And then I read the final season leaks and the season itself was even better, from the opposite point of view. I have not had so much fun watching a shitshow unravel, since the last Bioware game launched.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 21, 2021 22:18:59 GMT
Ugh, I hated that line from Javik. I hate any argument that is basically “To rise above monsters, you have to abandon your humanity.” I love the counter to that: “Only a human can destroy a monster. Only a human can dare hope to.” History says otherwise. History is a warning, not an inspiration. Even Nietzsche had something to say about gazing too long into the abyss... ”Oh blow it out your ass, Howard.”  But yeah, it’s a good warning. If we become what we fight, we lost anyway since either way only monsters remain. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 21, 2021 22:47:57 GMT
History is a warning, not an inspiration. Even Nietzsche had something to say about gazing too long into the abyss... ”Oh blow it out your ass, Howard.”  But yeah, it’s a good warning. If we become what we fight, we lost anyway since either way only monsters remain.
History is what separates fantasy from reality. And history has shown time and time again if you are facing an enemy that uses scorched earth tactics against you then you have to respond with the same level to fight back.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 21, 2021 23:27:12 GMT
History is a warning, not an inspiration. ”Oh blow it out your ass, Howard.” But yeah, it’s a good warning. If we become what we fight, we lost anyway since either way only monsters remain.
History is what separates fantasy from reality. And history has shown time and time again if you are facing an enemy that uses scorched earth tactics against you then you have to respond with the same level to fight back.
I'm not sure how to tell you this, but... Mass Effect isn't real.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 22, 2021 0:24:54 GMT
I have been musing more on the moral absolutism I have seen thrown around here in regards to the endings and how it may or may not effect future buying purchases. The thing about this is that this isn't the first time BioWare has asked Shepard to do some pretty dark things, even beyond all the ending choices pretty much being the same level of immorality, like committing genocide in the case of the Rachnai...or even supporting the genophage throughout the game and during the quest.
Now, I would think the obvious counter argument would be that BioWare still offers you a choie...except that all choices are just as valid as any other choice according to BioWare. All Shepards are canon. All Shepards are valid. So BioWare is saying that a racist, genocidal, Earth First Shepard is as valid as a paragon of virtue. From a moral standpoint they try not to offer judgement on any Shepard which does *monstrous* things either because again out of universe all Sheps are valid but in universe all Shepards are never really called out for their actions or arrested or held for war crimes. Every single character in the franchise offers their perspective on it, having a conversation so some really good characters can support everything from genocide to racism. Some really dark things. And indeed the one time that Shepard is held to account for the decisions they made, the darkness they can be held accountable for...well it seems a lot of players don't like it. Even the players that are saying that Destroy is such a non starter for them that somehow it would invalidate them from buying any future BW game.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 22, 2021 0:51:33 GMT
History is what separates fantasy from reality. And history has shown time and time again if you are facing an enemy that uses scorched earth tactics against you then you have to respond with the same level to fight back.
I'm not sure how to tell you this, but... Mass Effect isn't real. And? Just because it is fictional doesn't mean this statement isn't valid. Particularly as the game tries to stay as grounded in reality as a sci fi video game can be grounded in reality. There is murder, theft, genocide, political/corporate shenanigans and racism. Hell the 2nd game literally revolves around an organization whose singular goal is human supremacy and will resort to literal terrorist actions if they deem it necessary.
Lord of the Rings when facing the army of Sauron who was willing to murder everyone they came across The Last Alliance of Men and Elves literally slaughtered every single ork, goblin and troll they saw. Even when Sauron was defeated they still kept killing and that wanton slaughter is what allowed Gondor to gain nominal control of Mordor and build their fortifications to keep the remaining inhabitants contained for hundreds of years. And even after the Ring was destroyed it seems to be heavily implied that Aragon and Eromer slaughtered the orcs who were not in disarray and drove them back to their holes at sword point. And by sword point I mean literally a sword point though their chest. And then as king Aragon reclaimed old territory by again literally driving orcs and goblins out at sword point.
So yea it being fictional has nothing to do with it.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 22, 2021 2:08:55 GMT
I'm not sure how to tell you this, but... Mass Effect isn't real. And? Just because it is fictional doesn't mean this statement isn't valid. Particularly as the game tries to stay as grounded in reality as a sci fi video game can be grounded in reality. There is murder, theft, genocide, political/corporate shenanigans and racism. Hell the 2nd game literally revolves around an organization whose singular goal is human supremacy and will resort to literal terrorist actions if they deem it necessary.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  Yes! 'wish-fulfilment dreams' we spin to cheat our timid hearts and ugly Fact defeat! Whence came the wish, and whence the power to dream, or some things fair and others ugly deem? All wishes are not idle, nor in vain fulfilment we devise -- for pain is pain, not for itself to be desired, but ill; or else to strive or to subdue the will alike were graceless; and of Evil this alone is deadly certain: Evil is. Blessed are the timid hearts that evil hate that quail in its shadow, and yet shut the gate; that seek no parley, and in guarded room, though small and bate, upon a clumsy loom weave tissues gilded by the far-off day hoped and believed in under Shadow's sway. Blessed are the men of Noah's race that build their little arks, though frail and poorly filled, and steer through winds contrary towards a wraith, a rumour of a harbour guessed by faith. Blessed are the legend-makers with their rhyme of things not found within recorded time. It is not they that have forgot the Night, or bid us flee to organized delight, in lotus-isles of economic bliss forswearing souls to gain a Circe-kiss (and counterfeit at that, machine-produced, bogus seduction of the twice-seduced). Such isles they saw afar, and ones more fair, and those that hear them yet may yet beware. They have seen Death and ultimate defeat, and yet they would not in despair retreat, but oft to victory have tuned the lyre and kindled hearts with legendary fire, illuminating Now and dark Hath-been with light of suns as yet by no man seen.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 22, 2021 2:26:40 GMT
And? Just because it is fictional doesn't mean this statement isn't valid. Particularly as the game tries to stay as grounded in reality as a sci fi video game can be grounded in reality. There is murder, theft, genocide, political/corporate shenanigans and racism. Hell the 2nd game literally revolves around an organization whose singular goal is human supremacy and will resort to literal terrorist actions if they deem it necessary.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
It is kind of amazing how I can lay out specifically what I am talking about when I talk about the series being grounded in reality as far as a sci fi video game can be and then you choose the sci fi video game aspect as if it is some smoking gun that disproves what I said. And not only that you choose something that actually has no connection to the specifics I was talking about.
I guess since we are posting photos that have no connection to what is being said....
  That said you start ME1 with someone dying and later seeing a person getting impaled on a spike. You can choose to wipe out an entire species, kill a potential friend over a disagreement about their race that has been effected by a sterility plague and sacrifice the lives of 1,000 people on the DA. If you don't know what kind of game series you are getting into by the end of ME1 then I don't know what to say.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 22, 2021 4:18:53 GMT
History is a warning, not an inspiration. ”Oh blow it out your ass, Howard.” But yeah, it’s a good warning. If we become what we fight, we lost anyway since either way only monsters remain.
History is what separates fantasy from reality. And history has shown time and time again if you are facing an enemy that uses scorched earth tactics against you then you have to respond with the same level to fight back.
History is full of fantasy. Every perspective acts like their version is the truth. It’s why countless people are constantly analyzing it, sifting through all the bias to try to find the objective truth. Also no, history is full of examples where one side doesn’t have to resort to that to fight back. |
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Post by helios969 on Jul 22, 2021 7:20:54 GMT
Also no, history is full of examples where one side doesn’t have to resort to that to fight back. Not that I necessarily disagree but examples please. Do not just claim it so. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 22, 2021 12:08:13 GMT
History is what separates fantasy from reality. And history has shown time and time again if you are facing an enemy that uses scorched earth tactics against you then you have to respond with the same level to fight back.
History is full of fantasy. Every perspective acts like their version is the truth. It’s why countless people are constantly analyzing it, sifting through all the bias to try to find the objective truth. Also no, history is full of examples where one side doesn’t have to resort to that to fight back. As so I guess the colonies rebelled against the UK and established the United States though the power of friendship and not war, murder, disproportional responds to native tribes allying with the British and forcible conscription and threatening of death for desertion. It wasn't military and economic consequent it was the power of love that allowed the Roman Empire to encompass much of the known world. In 845 the Viking invasion of Paris wasn't because the viking force literally killed half of the army sent to stop them, and only left after they were paid a massive ransom in gold and silver. No it was the power of hugs. The Vikings hugged everyone until the people were so happy they gave away all that gold and silver to the nice vikings.
Seriously there is a difference between historical propaganda that turns a British monarch into a hunchback family killer and learning old George Washington had no problem forcibly conscripting people to fight and die for a war they wanted nothing to do because they were drunk or an immigrant who signed on the dotted line or a poor farmer who needed money to keep their farm and that these people represented an estimated as high as 1/3 of the continental army at their peak.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 22, 2021 12:24:15 GMT
History is what separates fantasy from reality. And history has shown time and time again if you are facing an enemy that uses scorched earth tactics against you then you have to respond with the same level to fight back.
History is full of fantasy. Every perspective acts like their version is the truth. It’s why countless people are constantly analyzing it, sifting through all the bias to try to find the objective truth. Also no, history is full of examples where one side doesn’t have to resort to that to fight back. Just curious. If the reapers showed up today, what would you do? Depending on where you're at, you might see the reapers firing their red beam of doom all over the place destroying everything in their path. Once the dust clears, will you make an effort to our leaders not to destroy the reapers? Would you run around all over the place trying to get people not to fire back?
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Post by phoray on Jul 22, 2021 13:07:00 GMT
Okay, so the issue of the Control ending to you people is the assumption that AI Shep will become Reaper 2.0, which is an assumption not based on anything in the game and only in ya'll's heads.
Got it, glad to know, Control is still my canon because I don't head canon that AI Shep becomes the new reaper 2.0, so I'm all good.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 22, 2021 13:14:13 GMT
Okay, so the issue of the Control ending to you people is the assumption that AI Shep will become Reaper 2.0, which is an assumption not based on anything in the game and only in ya'll's heads. Got it, glad to know, Control is still my canon because I don't head canon that AI Shep becomes the new reaper 2.0, so I'm all good. If my Shepard were to choose the blue, it would help rebuild earth and all human colonies. It would make sure humanity becomes top dog in the galaxy. It would leave a couple of reapers to be studied by the humans before it flies the reapers into the nearest sun. TIM would be proud. excellent.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 22, 2021 13:21:19 GMT
Okay, so the issue of the Control ending to you people is the assumption that AI Shep will become Reaper 2.0, which is an assumption not based on anything in the game and only in ya'll's heads. Got it, glad to know, Control is still my canon because I don't head canon that AI Shep becomes the new reaper 2.0, so I'm all good. Except for the fact that the Reapers came about in the first place and absolutely no evidence is provided that this time will be any different.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 22, 2021 13:26:41 GMT
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! It is kind of amazing how I can lay out specifically what I am talking about when I talk about the series being grounded in reality as far as a sci fi video game can be and then you choose the sci fi video game aspect as if it is some smoking gun that disproves what I said. And not only that you choose something that actually has no connection to the specifics I was talking about.
Oh, you mean like biotics, eezo, the Lazarus Project, Reapers... Chris L'etoile was the only one who made even a half hearted attempt at grounding Mass Effect in some sort of actual science fiction. This was always Bioware trying to create their own Star Wars ip independant of LucasArts.
I guess since we are posting photos that have no connection to what is being said....
That said you start ME1 with someone dying and later seeing a person getting impaled on a spike. You can choose to wipe out an entire species, kill a potential friend over a disagreement about their race that has been effected by a sterility plague and sacrifice the lives of 1,000 people on the DA. If you don't know what kind of game series you are getting into by the end of ME1 then I don't know what to say. [/quote] Guess you don't know Tolkien as well as you think...
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Post by phoray on Jul 22, 2021 13:27:58 GMT
Okay, so the issue of the Control ending to you people is the assumption that AI Shep will become Reaper 2.0, which is an assumption not based on anything in the game and only in ya'll's heads. Got it, glad to know, Control is still my canon because I don't head canon that AI Shep becomes the new reaper 2.0, so I'm all good. If my Shepard were to choose the blue, it would help rebuild earth and all human colonies. It would make sure humanity becomes top dog in the galaxy. It would leave a couple of reapers to be studied by the humans before it flies the reapers into the nearest sun. TIM would be proud. excellent. Exactly. It's been a while since I played ME3 nd actually sat through all the content. I'm on ME2 of the LE. but my memory of ME2 control ending was everyone being happy, and getting a speedier rebuild because of access to Reaper technology. This last part may actually be in my head, but I thought Reaper Shep left the galaxy after a while, leaving everyone to their new civilization. Reaper Shep should visit Andromeda their own gosh darn self. Got millenia to live, new adventure time. meh, I just don't care enough. I'm open to seeing what they do with a sequel and if I don't like it I just won't buy. Just like I didn't bother with AssCreed Odyssey DLC because MY Kass wouldn't pop out a baby just to keep some alien DNA going. Unlike AC: Odd, though, which was the definition of sunk cost fallacy for me, I actually enjoy the base game or trilogy as it were, so I'm playing it now again and will enjoy watching the hubs play it later.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 22, 2021 13:42:20 GMT
Oh, you mean like biotics, eezo, the Lazarus Project, Reapers... Chris L'etoile was the only one who made even a half hearted attempt at grounding Mass Effect in some sort of actual science fiction. This was always Bioware trying to create their own Star Wars ip independant of LucasArts. Your constant attempts to talk past my point are fairly obvious and getting a little boring. Society exists very similar to the real world. Cause and effect of actions are similar to the real world. The Krogan rebellion wasn't stopped because they developed mutual understanding. It was because they released a sterility plague on the race that severely dropped their leaving them unable to continue fighting. Combine that with the massive blow their central government got from losing the war caused their society to fracture and break down.
That is very realistic after effects of two major blows to the Krogan. You can argue that hundreds of years passing and nothing changing being stupid but that is a result of the video game aspect.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
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Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jul 22, 2021 14:15:15 GMT
Oh, you mean like biotics, eezo, the Lazarus Project, Reapers... Chris L'etoile was the only one who made even a half hearted attempt at grounding Mass Effect in some sort of actual science fiction. This was always Bioware trying to create their own Star Wars ip independant of LucasArts. Your constant attempts to talk past my point are fairly obvious and getting a little boring. Society exists very similar to the real world. Cause and effect of actions are similar to the real world. The Krogan rebellion wasn't stopped because they developed mutual understanding. It was because they released a sterility plague on the race that severely dropped their leaving them unable to continue fighting. Combine that with the massive blow their central government got from losing the war caused their society to fracture and break down.
That is very realistic after effects of two major blows to the Krogan. You can argue that hundreds of years passing and nothing changing being stupid but that is a result of the video game aspect.
The space orcs being stopped by a sterility plague happened because that's how Bioware wrote it. If the space elves, space gnomes, and space dwarves were to stop them some other way, they would have written it as such. That's how writing works.
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