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Post by Iakus on Jul 26, 2021 22:11:37 GMT
For reference.  Blue kaboom can't control the geth but red kaboom "will not discriminate" Makes perfect sense 
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 26, 2021 23:23:11 GMT
For reference. Blue kaboom can't control the geth but red kaboom "will not discriminate" Makes perfect sense  The issue, as I remember (if I took screenshots of those conversations I haven't found them), was the Reaper code that they uploaded...same with EDI. They go offline/shutdown because of that. The Geth could be restored to a non-Reaper code backup, but lord knows how old that backup would be. Not forgetting that any restoration may require organic intervention.
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Post by mannyray on Jul 26, 2021 23:34:19 GMT
You count your headcanon as canon. it's evident that the implied outcome is, since Shepard achieved immortality and as a human gaining control of the reapers, the cycle was broken, or rather, could be broken. Shepard died. That is canon. What's left is an AI with Shepard's memories. Humans don't control the Reapers. Reapers control the Reapers. THe new AI just decided organics were better as pets. Basically we have a happy but vaguely disturbing ending. You wanted a white paper with hundreds of pages of closure.
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 26, 2021 23:43:22 GMT
Blue kaboom can't control the geth but red kaboom "will not discriminate" Makes perfect sense The issue, as I remember (if I took screenshots of those conversations I haven't found them), was the Reaper code that they uploaded...same with EDI. They go offline/shutdown because of that. The Geth could be restored to a non-Reaper code backup, but lord knows how old that backup would be. Not forgetting that any restoration may require organic intervention. If that is their explanation for why red beam deactivates the geth, then blue beam should be able to control the geth for the same reason.
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 27, 2021 0:03:57 GMT
The issue, as I remember (if I took screenshots of those conversations I haven't found them), was the Reaper code that they uploaded...same with EDI. They go offline/shutdown because of that. The Geth could be restored to a non-Reaper code backup, but lord knows how old that backup would be. Not forgetting that any restoration may require organic intervention. If that is their explanation for why red beam deactivates the geth, then blue beam should be able to control the geth for the same reason. One would think.  As it stands (with both sides retaining their independence) if too many conflicts between AI and organics happen will Reaper Shep go the way of the Catalyst and start Reaper Harvest 2.0?
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 27, 2021 0:38:25 GMT
It also makes no sense because of the existence of the Crucible Interferometric Array, that targets each and every Reaper, located in the Milky Way galaxy.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jul 27, 2021 2:33:23 GMT
Shepard died. That is canon. What's left is an AI with Shepard's memories. Humans don't control the Reapers. Reapers control the Reapers. THe new AI just decided organics were better as pets. Basically we have a happy but vaguely disturbing ending. You wanted a white paper with hundreds of pages of closure. I don't consider the galaxy becoming the Reapers' ant farm to be happy. At all.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 27, 2021 2:37:33 GMT
Blue kaboom can't control the geth but red kaboom "will not discriminate" Makes perfect sense The issue, as I remember (if I took screenshots of those conversations I haven't found them), was the Reaper code that they uploaded...same with EDI. They go offline/shutdown because of that. The Geth could be restored to a non-Reaper code backup, but lord knows how old that backup would be. Not forgetting that any restoration may require organic intervention. THe Catalyst also says that the Crucible will target ALL synthetic life. Not just Reaper code. ANd points out that even Shepard isi "partly synthetic" suggesting even cyborgs aren't safe. And EDI confirmed that Shepard's brain is completely organic, so Shepard having Reaper code in the first place is...unlikely 
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 27, 2021 3:16:02 GMT
The issue, as I remember (if I took screenshots of those conversations I haven't found them), was the Reaper code that they uploaded...same with EDI. They go offline/shutdown because of that. The Geth could be restored to a non-Reaper code backup, but lord knows how old that backup would be. Not forgetting that any restoration may require organic intervention. THe Catalyst also says that the Crucible will target ALL synthetic life. Not just Reaper code. ANd points out that even Shepard isi "partly synthetic" suggesting even cyborgs aren't safe. And EDI confirmed that Shepard's brain is completely organic, so Shepard having Reaper code in the first place is...unlikely  That conversation with EDI was rather amusing if I remember correctly...still on ME1LE, so haven't gotten there yet this time around. 
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 27, 2021 10:42:15 GMT
So it targeting all Synthetics' just nonsense at the end of the day sadly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 13:25:29 GMT
So it targeting all Synthetics' just nonsense at the end of the day sadly. It's nonsense... but the endgame slides show you that impact. The geth "go missing" from the slides involving the quarians. Regardless of the nonsense of the reason for it, it's clear that destroy causes collateral damage. Control does not. Control depends on the morality of Shepard... a paragon "saves the many" and a renegade "leads the many" Destroy is proven unnecessary... despite what players think, it clearly shows that it effectively ends the harvest.
We are told thourghout the game 1) the Reapers are sentient AI 2) unlike the geth, the Reapers consider each one of them to be "separate" entities - i.e. "each a nation" not "we are all geth" So, they are not a "hive mind" and they are capable of having individual thoughts. Later in the game, the "twist" is introduced (by Leviathan) that there is an AI (i.e. the Catalyst) who "controls" the Reapers. Therefore, they do not act "by consensus" but are told what to do by a single "ruler."
Therefore, we know by the end of the game (i.e. before we even meet the catalyst) that destroying all the Reapers is unnecessary in order to stop the harvest. Changing out the "control mechanism" (i.e. what is in effect enslaving the Reapers) is the option that does the least harm... and it works. The other aspect, also supported in the game, is that attempting to destroy an entire race is not likely to work. Despite the best efforts of the Protheans and then the current cycle to destroy them, the Rachni survive. Despite the Reapers efforts to destroy the Protheans, a Prothean survives (and several more survived long enough to build the conduit). It is unlikely that destroy will solve the problem... because, some Reapers would likely survive it.
As the speech goes - it gives each race "a chance at peace" and an opportunity "to right the wrongs of the past." No guarantees because it doesn't control the Milky Species, including the geth. The peace they shape after the Reapers stop harvesting is up to them. Shepard cannot interfere beyond controlling the Reapers. As long as Shepard is telling them to stop harvesting, no harvest will happen.
Destroy boils down to, therefore, an intention "genocide" of the Reapers... i.e. the desire to kill them ALL... even though the player is shown that it is an unnecessary action and the "it's them or us" ideology is only a myth. That's why I object to it so strongly.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 27, 2021 14:57:26 GMT
Throughout ME3, it's TIM who keeps bringing up controlling the reapers. In the game you hear dead reapers is how we win this war. The player also learns the crucible has enough energy to destroy the reapers.
If control is chosen, the former human called Shepard becomes thing part 2. What would thing part 2 do when a species builds robots that eventually rebel? Will it sit back and let the fighting play out? Thing says save the many or leads the many. Will that many include both sides of the fight?
During the prothean cycle, they intended to destroy the reapers, but a group, later to be indoctrinated, wanted to control the reapers. Because of that, the project was sabotaged. It's seen in this cycle except the crucible isn't sabotaged. In both cases, indoctrination played a role. The only one's that can do that is thing and the reapers. There's that reaper interference again. Why would thing want control to be chosen? It's likely because the one being controlled cannot choose control since it was being controlled by thing.
The one thing blue has over the others is the rebuilding part. It takes less time. If someone were to do a playthrough like the one in my signature, except choose the blue, how much of a difference would it be from the red? Either the geth or quarians remain, the edibot might be destroyed on the beam run leaving it back to it's hologram form and of course the reapers are still around.
I shoot the tube. If any conflicts arise, let the galaxy deal with them. The reapers were never needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 15:07:16 GMT
So it targeting all Synthetics' just nonsense at the end of the day sadly. It's nonsense... but the endgame slides show you that impact. The geth "go missing" from the slides involving the quarians. Regardless of the nonsense of the reason for it, it's clear that destroy causes collateral damage. Control does not. Control depends on the morality of Shepard... a paragon "saves the many" and a renegade "leads the many" Destroy is proven unnecessary... despite what players think, it clearly shows that it effectively ends the harvest.
We are told thourghout the game 1) the Reapers are sentient AI 2) unlike the geth, the Reapers consider each one of them to be "separate" entities - i.e. "each a nation" not "we are all geth" So, they are not a "hive mind" and they are capable of having individual thoughts. Later in the game, the "twist" is introduced (by Leviathan) that there is an AI (i.e. the Catalyst) who "controls" the Reapers. Therefore, they do not act "by consensus" but are told what to do by a single "ruler."
Therefore, we know by the end of the game (i.e. before we even meet the catalyst) that destroying all the Reapers is unnecessary in order to stop the harvest. Changing out the "control mechanism" (i.e. what is in effect enslaving the Reapers) is the option that does the least harm... and it works. The other aspect, also supported in the game, is that attempting to destroy an entire race is not likely to work. Despite the best efforts of the Protheans and then the current cycle to destroy them, the Rachni survive. Despite the Reapers efforts to destroy the Protheans, a Prothean survives (and several more survived long enough to build the conduit). It is unlikely that destroy will solve the problem... because, some Reapers would likely survive it.
As the speech goes - it gives each race "a chance at peace" and an opportunity "to right the wrongs of the past." No guarantees because it doesn't control the Milky Species, including the geth. The peace they shape after the Reapers stop harvesting is up to them. Shepard cannot interfere beyond controlling the Reapers. As long as Shepard is telling them to stop harvesting, no harvest will happen.
Destroy boils down to, therefore, an intention "genocide" of the Reapers... i.e. the desire to kill them ALL... even though the player is shown that it is an unnecessary action and the "it's them or us" ideology is only a myth. That's why I object to it so strongly.
You need to pay better attention to how indoctrination works. I mean, this post is really something coming from you. You know this game and this lore well enough - how can you write this and not recognize the trap you've set for yourself? Control does control the (sic) Milky Species, the organic ones at least. The Reapers still have and would use their power of Domination/Indoctrination, just from a different Brat's (ShepBrat) bidding. Control is starting a brand new cycle with an upgraded CPU that will degrade over time just like the time before. CMV. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 15:26:42 GMT
Throughout ME3, it's TIM who keeps bringing up controlling the reapers. In the game you hear dead reapers is how we win this war. The player also learns the crucible has enough energy to destroy the reapers. If control is chosen, the former human called Shepard becomes thing part 2. What would thing part 2 do when a species builds robots that eventually rebel? Will it sit back and let the fighting play out? Thing says save the many or leads the many. Will that many include both sides of the fight? During the prothean cycle, they intended to destroy the reapers, but a group, later to be indoctrinated, wanted to control the reapers. Because of that, the project was sabotaged. It's seen in this cycle except the crucible isn't sabotaged. In both cases, indoctrination played a role. The only one's that can do that is thing and the reapers. There's that reaper interference again. Why would thing want control to be chosen? It's likely because the one being controlled cannot choose control since it was being controlled by thing. The one thing blue has over the others is the rebuilding part. It takes less time. If someone were to do a playthrough like the one in my signature, except choose the blue, how much of a difference would it be from the red? Either the geth or quarians remain, the edibot might be destroyed on the beam run leaving it back to it's hologram form and of course the reapers are still around. I shoot the tube. If any conflicts arise, let the galaxy deal with them. The reapers were never needed. What makes TIM's position wrong is that he wants to control them to turn them on other enemies and to, perhaps, even enhance them further. His motives are heinous, but that doesn't make the sort of control Shepard would have heinous as well. A population has to be governed in some way... someone always had a measure of power and control. Without that, there's anarchy... Rahkana demonstrates that. The drell ceded a measure of control to the Hanar under the compact to avoid extinction. If Shepard is a paragon, he/she would likely use the power obtained through control wisely... and, eventually, when it is safe, to liberate the Reapers... as he/she did with the geth and he/she and Joker did with EDI. Shepard is a leader... so he/she has a measure of control over his/her squad, his/her crew. At the start of ME3, using Renegade options, he/she can even say to James that the military is not a democracy. Does it make it a "bad" organization... no... that depends on the morality and qualities of the leadership.
Destroy is the wanton elimination/extermination of another race/species that's sentient and contains individuals. You justifying it by saying "the reapers were never needed" just devalues them... just as the perpetrators have dehumanized and devalued every race they've tried to exterminate throughout history. Furthermore, the game clearly takes the stand that the ancient knowledges are useful and needed... and then it also entered the "twist" that the Reapers contain all that knowledge from all the past civilizations of the galaxy.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jul 27, 2021 16:36:45 GMT
So it targeting all Synthetics' just nonsense at the end of the day sadly. AS nonsensical as shooting a tube to turn the Giant Magic Wand on and then walking INTO the resulting fireball.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 27, 2021 16:40:30 GMT
Jade Empire's bad ending is Controls good ending
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 27, 2021 16:42:36 GMT
For reference. Blue kaboom can't control the geth but red kaboom "will not discriminate" Makes perfect sense Hey, it's BioWare's magic spaceball. They can do with it whatever they want.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 27, 2021 16:45:38 GMT
Blue kaboom can't control the geth but red kaboom "will not discriminate" Makes perfect sense Hey, it's BioWare's magic spaceball. They can do with it whatever they want.  
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Post by themikefest on Jul 27, 2021 16:48:32 GMT
It's something you cannot comprehend
You don't need to know why, and there's not enough time to explain.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 27, 2021 16:56:04 GMT
It's something you cannot comprehend
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 27, 2021 17:42:07 GMT
It's ineffable...  |
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 27, 2021 17:54:18 GMT
So it targeting all Synthetics' just nonsense at the end of the day sadly. It's nonsense... but the endgame slides show you that impact. The geth "go missing" from the slides involving the quarians. Regardless of the nonsense of the reason for it, it's clear that destroy causes collateral damage. Control does not. Control depends on the morality of Shepard... a paragon "saves the many" and a renegade "leads the many" Destroy is proven unnecessary... despite what players think, it clearly shows that it effectively ends the harvest.
We are told thourghout the game 1) the Reapers are sentient AI 2) unlike the geth, the Reapers consider each one of them to be "separate" entities - i.e. "each a nation" not "we are all geth" So, they are not a "hive mind" and they are capable of having individual thoughts. Later in the game, the "twist" is introduced (by Leviathan) that there is an AI (i.e. the Catalyst) who "controls" the Reapers. Therefore, they do not act "by consensus" but are told what to do by a single "ruler."
Therefore, we know by the end of the game (i.e. before we even meet the catalyst) that destroying all the Reapers is unnecessary in order to stop the harvest. Changing out the "control mechanism" (i.e. what is in effect enslaving the Reapers) is the option that does the least harm... and it works. The other aspect, also supported in the game, is that attempting to destroy an entire race is not likely to work. Despite the best efforts of the Protheans and then the current cycle to destroy them, the Rachni survive. Despite the Reapers efforts to destroy the Protheans, a Prothean survives (and several more survived long enough to build the conduit). It is unlikely that destroy will solve the problem... because, some Reapers would likely survive it.
As the speech goes - it gives each race "a chance at peace" and an opportunity "to right the wrongs of the past." No guarantees because it doesn't control the Milky Species, including the geth. The peace they shape after the Reapers stop harvesting is up to them. Shepard cannot interfere beyond controlling the Reapers. As long as Shepard is telling them to stop harvesting, no harvest will happen.
Destroy boils down to, therefore, an intention "genocide" of the Reapers... i.e. the desire to kill them ALL... even though the player is shown that it is an unnecessary action and the "it's them or us" ideology is only a myth. That's why I object to it so strongly.
Here is a question though, which I'd really like an answer to: If the reapers are individual entities with their own thoughts, who are just "told what to do by a single ruler" (aka the catalyst) and if - as starkid tells us - they represent the preserved species they were made from (whatever that is supposed to mean exactly), how come there has not yet been a reaper revolt against the catalyst? We know for certain that the Leviathans oppose the actions of the catalyst and yet, the reaper made from them (Harbinger) is all in with the plan. All the other reapers would be made from species that were harvested (mostly against their will, I'd imagine), who must have seen horrors similar to what we see happen in ME3 and yet, their reapers are down with reaping.
I can see only two possible answers: Either the catalyst actually controls them completely, in which case I pity the reapers. They must feel like Captain Picard did when he was assimilated by the Borg, being witness to countless horrors for eternity without the opportunity to do anything against it. Or they are really not representing the race they came from at all anymore and upon their creation are brainwashed into believing in the catalyst's ideas and his plan, in which case the catalyst is basically just lying to Shepard about this whole thing. One third option is of course, that after being transformed into a reaper, that "race consciousness" (or whatever it is a reaper is exactly internally) gains such a vast new perspective on their own (without active brainwashing by the catalyst), that the catalyst's plan suddenly does make sense on it's own and they fall in line.
Now, in the first case, my (usual/main) Shepard wouldn't want to be the next slave master, s/he'd rather see the reapers themselves destroyed than being the next one subjugating their free will for eternity (apparently just "freeing" the individual reapers is not an option here for some reason). In the second case, the catalyst is simply not trustworthy enough to go along with any of his ideas (except destroy as that basically just ends the whole thing, so might as well try that one). In the third case, it would stand to reason that if Shepard/the Shepard AI upon the control transformation gained a similar level of understanding, the catalyst plan should now make sense to him/her as well and the harvest would just continue. However, since that doesn't happen in the control ending, we can kinda dismiss the third case anyway and if we wouldn't, well that would be a pretty crazy ending (would be kinda cool though IMO  ).
Either way, from (my) Shepard's perspective, control is not really a viable option. But please, I am honestly interested to know how you'd explain how the reapers - if we assume their individuality is somehow maintained - are kept "on policy" by the catalyst.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jul 27, 2021 18:49:47 GMT
It's something you cannot comprehend
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 20:46:58 GMT
It's nonsense... but the endgame slides show you that impact. The geth "go missing" from the slides involving the quarians. Regardless of the nonsense of the reason for it, it's clear that destroy causes collateral damage. Control does not. Control depends on the morality of Shepard... a paragon "saves the many" and a renegade "leads the many" Destroy is proven unnecessary... despite what players think, it clearly shows that it effectively ends the harvest.
We are told thourghout the game 1) the Reapers are sentient AI 2) unlike the geth, the Reapers consider each one of them to be "separate" entities - i.e. "each a nation" not "we are all geth" So, they are not a "hive mind" and they are capable of having individual thoughts. Later in the game, the "twist" is introduced (by Leviathan) that there is an AI (i.e. the Catalyst) who "controls" the Reapers. Therefore, they do not act "by consensus" but are told what to do by a single "ruler."
Therefore, we know by the end of the game (i.e. before we even meet the catalyst) that destroying all the Reapers is unnecessary in order to stop the harvest. Changing out the "control mechanism" (i.e. what is in effect enslaving the Reapers) is the option that does the least harm... and it works. The other aspect, also supported in the game, is that attempting to destroy an entire race is not likely to work. Despite the best efforts of the Protheans and then the current cycle to destroy them, the Rachni survive. Despite the Reapers efforts to destroy the Protheans, a Prothean survives (and several more survived long enough to build the conduit). It is unlikely that destroy will solve the problem... because, some Reapers would likely survive it.
As the speech goes - it gives each race "a chance at peace" and an opportunity "to right the wrongs of the past." No guarantees because it doesn't control the Milky Species, including the geth. The peace they shape after the Reapers stop harvesting is up to them. Shepard cannot interfere beyond controlling the Reapers. As long as Shepard is telling them to stop harvesting, no harvest will happen.
Destroy boils down to, therefore, an intention "genocide" of the Reapers... i.e. the desire to kill them ALL... even though the player is shown that it is an unnecessary action and the "it's them or us" ideology is only a myth. That's why I object to it so strongly.
Here is a question though, which I'd really like an answer to: If the reapers are individual entities with their own thoughts, who are just "told what to do by a single ruler" (aka the catalyst) and if - as starkid tells us - they represent the preserved species they were made from (whatever that is supposed to mean exactly), how come there has not yet been a reaper revolt against the catalyst? We know for certain that the Leviathans oppose the actions of the catalyst and yet, the reaper made from them (Harbinger) is all in with the plan. All the other reapers would be made from species that were harvested (mostly against their will, I'd imagine), who must have seen horrors similar to what we see happen in ME3 and yet, their reapers are down with reaping.
I can see only two possible answers: Either the catalyst actually controls them completely, in which case I pity the reapers. They must feel like Captain Picard did when he was assimilated by the Borg, being witness to countless horrors for eternity without the opportunity to do anything against it. Or they are really not representing the race they came from at all anymore and upon their creation are brainwashed into believing in the catalyst's ideas and his plan, in which case the catalyst is basically just lying to Shepard about this whole thing. One third option is of course, that after being transformed into a reaper, that "race consciousness" (or whatever it is a reaper is exactly internally) gains such a vast new perspective on their own (without active brainwashing by the catalyst), that the catalyst's plan suddenly does make sense on it's own and they fall in line.
Now, in the first case, my (usual/main) Shepard wouldn't want to be the next slave master, s/he'd rather see the reapers themselves destroyed than being the next one subjugating their free will for eternity (apparently just "freeing" the individual reapers is not an option here for some reason). In the second case, the catalyst is simply not trustworthy enough to go along with any of his ideas (except destroy as that basically just ends the whole thing, so might as well try that one). In the third case, it would stand to reason that if Shepard/the Shepard AI upon the control transformation gained a similar level of understanding, the catalyst plan should now make sense to him/her as well and the harvest would just continue. However, since that doesn't happen in the control ending, we can kinda dismiss the third case anyway and if we wouldn't, well that would be a pretty crazy ending (would be kinda cool though IMO ).
Either way, from (my) Shepard's perspective, control is not really a viable option. But please, I am honestly interested to know how you'd explain how the reapers - if we assume their individuality is somehow maintained - are kept "on policy" by the catalyst.
K would also "pity the reapers"; but there is no guaranteed that, eventually, the Reaper could revolt against the Catalyst. They didn't write in a schism... but one could exist for all we know. Perhaps that is why the Catalyst only thought the Crucible plans had been eradicated... maybe there is a traitor somewhere among the Reaper ranks. Even if they are "brainwashed' does not make them a "hive mind" or all of one mind. Brainwashed captives (Stockholm's syndrome) are still people... we don't just "kill them all" without trying to bring them back. How are slave populations kept as slaves... They are and have always been individual people with minds of their own yet, within many civilizations throughout history, slavery has been maintained.
Shepard does not have to wield the "control" option to "subjugate" the Reapers. He/she can control them "how he/she sees fit." Again, that's a line right out of the game. The player is deciding here what "control" represents to them. We don't live in a society where no one exerts any measure of "control" over our lives. There are several levels of law and government in a democratic society. It doesn't make us slaves... but we are not free to do just as we want either.
As I've said many times... ALL the endings have a place and deserve to go forward as part of the canon... but destroy advocates want to also destroy all the other endings and remove them from the canon.
Another thing I came across while doing the Geth Dreadnought mission... The Reapers can't control the geth... Legion says that clearly, but the geth joined with the Reapers voluntarily because they were attacked by the quarians. Had the quarians not attacked them, Legion says that joining with the Reapers "would have been unnecessary." So, what Mike Gamble is quoted as saying above is represented in the game. The Catalyst can't control the geth, so Shepard can't control the geth. The Catalyst can only pass on the same degree of power has he holds. He can control the Reapers, so he can pass that control over to Shepard... to use as Shepard sees fit to use it.
If you don't consider the Reapers to actually be sentient... i.e. devoid of free well... then rewriting the AI that controls them is absolute. They'll forever follow Shepard's directive to stop harvesting organics... and you've saved a billion years of advanced technical knowledge as acquired by every civilization from the dawn of the galaxy.
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 27, 2021 21:01:02 GMT
For reference, the Leviathan dialogue.... Leviathan: You have come too far.
Shepard: I had to find you.
Leviathan: This is not your domain. You have breached the darkness.
Shepard: You killed a Reaper. I need to know why.
Leviathan: They are the enemy. One that seeks our extermination.
Shepard: But...I thought you were a Reaper.
Leviathan: They are only echoes. We existed long before.
Shepard: Then what are you?
Leviathan: Something more.
Leviathan: Your mind belongs to me.
Leviathan: Breathe.
Shepard: Ann? What's happening?
Leviathan: Your memories give voice to our words. Your nature will be revealed to us.
Leviathan: Accept this.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> I don't understand
Shepard: The galaxy's at war with the Reapers. You defeated one. Why aren't you fighting back?
Leviathan: There is no war. There is only the harvest.
Shepard: Then help us stop it!
Leviathan: None have possessed the strength in past cycles. Your own species could be destroyed with a single thought.
Leviathan: But you are different.
Leviathan: I have witnessed your actions in this cycle: the destruction of Sovereign; the fall of the Collectors. The Reapers perceive you as a threat.
Leviathan: And I must understand why.
Leviathan: Before the cycles, our kind was the apex of life in the galaxy. The lesser species were in our thrall, serving our needs.
Leviathan: We grew more powerful, and they were cared for. But we could not protect them from themselves.
Leviathan: Over time, the species built machines that then destroyed them. Tribute does not flow from a dead race.
Leviathan: To solve the problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost.
Leviathan: As the intelligence evolved, it studied the development of civilizations. Its understanding grew until it found a solution.
Leviathan: In that instant, it betrayed us.
Leviathan: It chose our kind as the first harvest. From our essence, the first Reaper was created. You call it Harbinger.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> "Intelligence?"
Shepard: You built that machine despite what you saw the other races experience. Why?
Leviathan: You cannot conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will.
Leviathan: Every creature, every nation, every planet we discovered became our tools. We were above the concerns of lesser species.
Leviathan: The Intelligence was envisioned as simply another tool.
Shepard: And now we all pay the price of your mistake.
Leviathan: There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> Your survival
Shepard: How did you remain hidden all this time?
Leviathan: Our extermination was not complete. Some survived and found refuge in the dark corners of the galaxy. I am their progeny.
Leviathan: Over the cycles, the thrall races were controlled, removing traces of our existence as we directed them to.
Leviathan: In this way, our survival was kept secret from the Reapers. Today, we reach out through the fragments and watch for discovery.
Shepard: Fragments? You mean the artifacts we found?
Leviathan: They provide a window into the galaxy. Tools for exploring the events of this cycle from the safety of this world.
Leviathan: Through them, we watch, we study, and remain in the shadows.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> The first harvest
Shepard: How did the Intelligence defeat you?
Leviathan: To find a solution, it required information -- physical data drawn from organic life in the cosmos.
Leviathan: It created an army of pawns that searched the galaxy, gathering this data.
Leviathan: There was no warning, no reason given when they turned on us. Only slaughter.
Leviathan: Only the harvest.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> The Reapers
Shepard: Tell me about the Reapers.
Leviathan: Each harvest ends with the birth of a Reaper.
Leviathan: Perfect in design. Each formed in Harbinger's image. Our image.
Leviathan: Each Reaper has the power to influence organics. Over the countless cycles, this ability was refined, perfected, and gave rise to indoctrination.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> Why cycles?
Shepard: but what's the point of all these harvests?
Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled.
Leviathan: It directed the Reapers to create the mass relays -- to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency.
Leviathan: The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.
Shepard: Will it ever end?
Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> The Crucible
Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible?
Leviathan: We have watched its construction before. It has never been completed.
Leviathan: Those who have tried still fell victim to the harvest.
Leviathan: Its outcome is unknown.
Shepard: Okay, you made your point. Will you help stop the cycle?
Leviathan: I have searched your mind. You are an anomaly -- yet that is not enough.
Shepard: Wait!
Leviathan: The cycle will continue.
Shepard: No! You've been watching. You know this cycle is different.
Leviathan: We will survive. You will remain here as a servant of our needs. The Reapers will harvest the rest.
Shepard: If you release me, no one has to be harvested.
Leviathan: Nothing will change.
DIALOGUE WHEEL --> It already has.
Shepard: The Reapers know where you are! You can't just watch anymore -- you have to fight!
Shepard: Even if you survive the battle today, the Reapers won't stop -- ever. Release me, and we have a chance to end this once and for all.
Leviathan: Your confidence is singular.
Shepard: I've earned it: out there fighting, where you should be.
Leviathan: It is clear why the Reapers perceive you as a threat. Your victories are more than a product of chance.
Leviathan: We will fight. But not for you, or any lesser race. We were the first, the apex race. We will survive.
Leviathan: And the Reapers who trespass on this world will understand our power. They will become our slaves.
Leviathan: Today, they pay their tribute in blood. |
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