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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2021 22:05:09 GMT
What I never fully understood about synthetics such as Legion or EDI dying, is why they couldn't be repaired - machines can be broken, can they not be repaired? If Shepard can be brought back from death why can't Legion/Geth and EDI? I don't know, maybe I missed some information in the codex or in a book related to this series. I always head cannon that those synthetics will be repaired and retrieved at some point after the events on Earth and with this I feel justified choosing Destroy every single playthrough. The bodies of them can be repaired, but their souls cannot. Their experiences, their perspectives, all the things that make them them is gone. We see this with organics too, such as the Shepard clone. They have exactly the same body, but they are not the same person. So if they rebuild EDI, she may be able to do all the things EDI did, sound just like her, and so on but it will never be EDI.
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Post by sugarless on Jun 22, 2021 22:10:13 GMT
What I never fully understood about synthetics such as Legion or EDI dying, is why they couldn't be repaired - machines can be broken, can they not be repaired? If Shepard can be brought back from death why can't Legion/Geth and EDI? I don't know, maybe I missed some information in the codex or in a book related to this series. I always head cannon that those synthetics will be repaired and retrieved at some point after the events on Earth and with this I feel justified choosing Destroy every single playthrough. The bodies of them can be repaired, but their souls cannot. Their experiences, their perspectives, all the things that make them them is gone. We see this with organics too, such as the Shepard clone. They have exactly the same body, but they are not the same person. So if they rebuild EDI, she may be able to do all the things EDI did, sound just like her, and so on but it will never be EDI. But then how does Cerberus bring back Shepard's soul?
I think bringing him/her back is less likely than bringing back a highly advanced machine, which in essence is what Legion and EDI are.
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 22, 2021 22:30:08 GMT
What I never fully understood about synthetics such as Legion or EDI dying, is why they couldn't be repaired - machines can be broken, can they not be repaired? If Shepard can be brought back from death why can't Legion/Geth and EDI? I don't know, maybe I missed some information in the codex or in a book related to this series. I always head cannon that those synthetics will be repaired and retrieved at some point after the events on Earth and with this I feel justified choosing Destroy every single playthrough. The bodies of them can be repaired, but their souls cannot. Their experiences, their perspectives, all the things that make them them is gone. We see this with organics too, such as the Shepard clone. They have exactly the same body, but they are not the same person. So if they rebuild EDI, she may be able to do all the things EDI did, sound just like her, and so on but it will never be EDI. Yes as far as I see it their bodies (synthetic) are destroyed but with that said only part of EDI's programing was in the platform same as the Geth so the question is were their programs destroyed on the Normandy and the Geth sever on Rannoch? I do believe that programing in those platforms were destroyed but can in time be replaced from the servers . food for thought
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2021 22:47:34 GMT
The bodies of them can be repaired, but their souls cannot. Their experiences, their perspectives, all the things that make them them is gone. We see this with organics too, such as the Shepard clone. They have exactly the same body, but they are not the same person. So if they rebuild EDI, she may be able to do all the things EDI did, sound just like her, and so on but it will never be EDI. But then how does Cerberus bring back Shepard's soul?
I think bringing him/her back is less likely than bringing back a highly advanced machine, which in essence is what Legion and EDI are.
Can't really answer that, since Bioware seems to have settled on Shepard only being "mostly dead". The bodies of them can be repaired, but their souls cannot. Their experiences, their perspectives, all the things that make them them is gone. We see this with organics too, such as the Shepard clone. They have exactly the same body, but they are not the same person. So if they rebuild EDI, she may be able to do all the things EDI did, sound just like her, and so on but it will never be EDI. Yes as far as I see it their bodies (synthetic) are destroyed but with that said only part of EDI's programing was in the platform same as the Geth so the question is were their programs destroyed on the Normandy and the Geth sever on Rannoch? I do believe that programing in those platforms were destroyed but can in time be replaced from the servers . food for thought It's actually the other way around. As we see with the Reapers, the bodies are the only things that are left. The Destroy wave targeted software not hardware. So yes EDI's consciousness on the Normandy and the Geth servers were just permanently deleted from the systems holding them. The only thing remaining of either of them are the shells of their mobile platforms and the computers that held them, just like all that's left of the Reapers are the hulls of the ships.
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 22, 2021 22:56:50 GMT
But then how does Cerberus bring back Shepard's soul?
I think bringing him/her back is less likely than bringing back a highly advanced machine, which in essence is what Legion and EDI are.
Can't really answer that, since Bioware seems to have settled on Shepard only being "mostly dead". Yes as far as I see it their bodies (synthetic) are destroyed but with that said only part of EDI's programing was in the platform same as the Geth so the question is were their programs destroyed on the Normandy and the Geth sever on Rannoch? I do believe that programing in those platforms were destroyed but can in time be replaced from the servers . food for thought It's actually the other way around. As we see with the Reapers, the bodies are the only things that are left. The Destroy wave targeted software not hardware. So yes EDI's consciousness on the Normandy and the Geth servers were just deleted. The only thing remaining of either of them are the shells of their mobile platforms and the computers that held them, just like all that's left of the Reapers are the hulls of the ships. you make a valid point but wouldn't the ships computers be non functional? they are programs also making the ships synthetics ?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2021 23:04:28 GMT
Can't really answer that, since Bioware seems to have settled on Shepard only being "mostly dead". It's actually the other way around. As we see with the Reapers, the bodies are the only things that are left. The Destroy wave targeted software not hardware. So yes EDI's consciousness on the Normandy and the Geth servers were just deleted. The only thing remaining of either of them are the shells of their mobile platforms and the computers that held them, just like all that's left of the Reapers are the hulls of the ships. you make a valid point but wouldn't the ships computers be non functional? they are programs also making the ships synthetics ? If they were being operated by VIs, then yes absolutely. The crews on those ships would have to work fast and operate them manually before the ship and crew are lost.
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Post by sugarless on Jun 22, 2021 23:10:07 GMT
But then how does Cerberus bring back Shepard's soul?
I think bringing him/her back is less likely than bringing back a highly advanced machine, which in essence is what Legion and EDI are.
Can't really answer that, since Bioware seems to have settled on Shepard only being "mostly dead". For all intents and purposes, Shepard is dead at that stage. Therefore, there's no reason why the same amount of resources and technology can't be applied to bring back dead synthetics/machines.
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 22, 2021 23:32:32 GMT
you make a valid point but wouldn't the ships computers be non functional? they are programs also making the ships synthetics ? If they were being operated by VIs, then yes absolutely. The crews on those ships would have to work fast and operate them manually before the ship and crew are lost. Sorry it took so long (medical issues) going by your statement about VIs yes they are programs but they are not synthetics I.e. they are not aware and they have no physical platform AIs yes they are aware and have a platform, umm? so back to my one post are EDI and the Geth (least what is left) programs secure? Me I have no idea (till a dev etc. says other wise) but that's how I like to look at it. they will be back
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2021 23:39:34 GMT
If they were being operated by VIs, then yes absolutely. The crews on those ships would have to work fast and operate them manually before the ship and crew are lost. Sorry it took so long (medical issues) going by your statement about VIs yes they are programs but they are not synthetics I.e. they are not aware and they have no physical platform AIs yes they are aware and have a platform, umm? so back to my one post are EDI and the Geth (least what is left) programs secure? Me I have no idea (till a dev etc. says other wise) but that's how I like to look at it. they will be back No, their programs are not secure because it is their programs that Destroy targets.
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 22, 2021 23:42:17 GMT
Sorry it took so long (medical issues) going by your statement about VIs yes they are programs but they are not synthetics I.e. they are not aware and they have no physical platform AIs yes they are aware and have a platform, umm? so back to my one post are EDI and the Geth (least what is left) programs secure? Me I have no idea (till a dev etc. says other wise) but that's how I like to look at it. they will be back No, their programs are not secure because it is their programs that Destroy targets. Hmmm...I'll think about that and OH! thanks for the debate
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Post by bayni on Jun 22, 2021 23:42:26 GMT
What I never fully understood about synthetics such as Legion or EDI dying, is why they couldn't be repaired - machines can be broken, can they not be repaired? If Shepard can be brought back from death why can't Legion/Geth and EDI? I don't know, maybe I missed some information in the codex or in a book related to this series. I always head cannon that those synthetics will be repaired and retrieved at some point after the events on Earth and with this I feel justified choosing Destroy every single playthrough. Hackett does say they will rebuild what was lost, maybe that includes Geth and EDI. as for a soul...that always sparks the "do machines have souls" question and then that usually ends up at the religion talk lol. I had wondered about Shepard being remade too, seems the mostly dead theory gets writers out of the hole there. lol
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 22, 2021 23:45:14 GMT
What I never fully understood about synthetics such as Legion or EDI dying, is why they couldn't be repaired - machines can be broken, can they not be repaired? If Shepard can be brought back from death why can't Legion/Geth and EDI? I don't know, maybe I missed some information in the codex or in a book related to this series. I always head cannon that those synthetics will be repaired and retrieved at some point after the events on Earth and with this I feel justified choosing Destroy every single playthrough. Hackett does say they will rebuild what was lost, maybe that includes Geth and EDI. as for a soul...that always sparks the "do machines have souls" question and then that usually ends up at the religion talk lol. I had wondered about Shepard being remade too, seems the mostly dead theory gets writers out of the hole there. lol Souls are overrated. I have none and I'm doing fine.
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Post by bayni on Jun 22, 2021 23:46:20 GMT
You have good questions on the Destroy ending. I wonder myself if anyone else is still alive on the Citadel once the arms closed. I know we're beamed into an unfamiliar place on the Citadel, but I wonder that if anyone was still alive on the Citadel, would they be able to get to you if you're in an area they don't even know exists? Patrick Weekes can answer that question. I also believe that someone from C-sec, likely Bailey might be the one to find Shepard. Or maybe one of his men who informs Bailey they found a survivor. By the time Bailey shows up, he sees Shepard being put on a stretcher.. thank you for this!! I will watch this after dinner and very excited to do so.
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Post by bayni on Jun 22, 2021 23:46:52 GMT
Hackett does say they will rebuild what was lost, maybe that includes Geth and EDI. as for a soul...that always sparks the "do machines have souls" question and then that usually ends up at the religion talk lol. I had wondered about Shepard being remade too, seems the mostly dead theory gets writers out of the hole there. lol Souls are overrated. I have none and I'm doing fine. Bwahahahahha!!!
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Post by bayni on Jun 22, 2021 23:58:23 GMT
bayni : Your first forum community is the BSN? Now that’s definitely diving in at the deep end - we’re always about one comment away from a full on brawl around here! I kid of course! It’s a fun place to hang out, though it definitely has its own unique brand of forum insanity to deal with. Welcome to the crew! I absolutely love reading all these posts from you guys. It has helped me out a lot and so many great views and ideas and so on. My problem I had was that my husband had his take on it and was not wanting to see that maybe there are others who don't think as he, which then I came here to add to the pool of individuals. So many great posts by you guys so many of you think exactly like I do. And one brave person who is exactly identical to my husband in here giving us stuff to discuss. I have visited forums before to read topics on whatever, but this was the first one where I felt that the people who hang out here are exactly what I needed to feel comfortable and fit in. I don't have many friends and the one or two I do have are not gamers, they don't do the hobbies and crafts I do and are usually not interested in seeing photos of my cats, game images or quilts I make. So finding this forum was like finding my tribe! Each and every one of you have truly enriched my game experience. I'm on my second play through just finished ME1 and on to 2, I am trying a different job class and I find it hard to adapt to change and trying hard to not make the same choices and what not. But at the same time, I have had time to really absorb the game and dialog. I find myself stopping and taking a photo of the area, which by the way that photo thread is so awesome. Bottom line is I am super glad to be here and a part of this community.
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Post by mtheillusive on Jun 23, 2021 0:00:27 GMT
How the heck is my Shepard gonna be ok? She is in a pile of rubble on a destroyed Citadel, no food no water and who knows what kind of injuries.Well....there's still that long gigantic pond on the presidium, should be water left from that possibly....and fish. And of course the remains of Keeper meat.....just saying.... (sorry I couldn't help it) On a serious note though...so wait Garrus (the LI in this case) doesn't put up the name at the end? Really? Wow. I've only chosen Liara as a main (with Ashley or Miranda probably being my second choice, but I really like the cosmic astro eternity hug and kiss scene before the final battle, plus my Shep is biotic), but I always assumed it was the Love Intrest who put up the name. So...who puts it up if not them? And yea the games will get you emotional, they did a great job at that throughout the trilogy. Hell, at least for me, its the ONLY game series that gets me emotional...
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jun 23, 2021 0:06:08 GMT
Personally, I think the best ending is Synthesis. 1. It has the least deaths. Refuse kills everyone so it is a nonstarter, Destroys commits genocide on all synthetics (and my personal favorite race), and even Control technically kills two beings since both Shepard and Catalyst die to be replaced with Shepalyst. Meanwhile Synthesis just has one death: Shepard. And yea it sucks that they can’t live happily ever after with their LI (Kelly in my case), but considering how my Shepard was all about bringing everyone together and how Kelly hoped that everyone could understand each other, my Shepard would die doing what they dreamed and Kelly I feel would mourn but also love Shepard for their sacrifice. I’m sure many others like Garrus would feel the same. 2. It is the ending the stops the Reaper threat the most. While Destroy ends them now, as I said it proved their point and at some time in the future a similar situation will rise again and reach the same if not worse solution. And Control leaves the possibility of them going back to their old ways. Meanwhile Synthesis defeats them by removing the reason for what they were created to do, so they will never go back to harvesting. 3. The galaxy is at its best point. I know all the negatives people try to bring up, but the game explicitly shows those arguments are invalid. People still have the soul of who they are. And as we see in the slideshow the galactic races reach a new level of peace and prosperity. Things like the Morgan rebuilding, the Geth and Quarians (who are unmasked in this ending) living together in peace, etc. Even some small things are good, like Kasumi being reunited with Keiji thanks to the change. Even all the past cycles are now alive in the sense the Reapers allow access to their culture, history, etc. It was such a good ending for everyone that people used that as an argument for why it shouldn’t be canon, since “future games would have no conflict”. Speaking of future games, Andromeda also shows it is not the horror show some people try to say it is as we see with Ryder and SAM. There are more and I could go into far more detail, but I think that’s good to start with. Thank you for your opinion, I didn't start this thread to debate all the crappy endings, it was to find others to talk to about what I experienced emotionally. However I did invite anyone to come and enjoy the post. It seems to me that Refuse would have been your better ending because your favorite race would have lived on in a perfect galaxy, because organics will always fight and have conflict with each other. Even the blended machine people will fight with each other. Basically all these ends are a For right now fix. green Krogan will still fight, that is what they are bred to do. there is no perfect utopia not with organics. I am sorry that I feel that the machines are an acceptable loss to save the many and preserve life the way it is. And to be super technical, none of these races should have even been up lifted by the reapers. So for me, killing off the murderbots and loosing the geth is what feels right to me. I know you didn't. But the salt is strong here. Seriously, I feel for you. I remember it all so clearly. When I first played the game back in March 2012, I did everything right. I was bawling through parts fo the game. I romanced Liara in the first game. Then Jacob in the 2nd.... imagine the kick in the gut in ME3 - thanks, Jacob. As femShep romancing Jacob is bad and he's an ass. If you play as Sheploo, Jacob is a good guy. So I picked up with Liara again. Mordin dying on Tuchanka while curing the genophage had me in tears. Samara losing her daughter Rila and almost killing herself had me almost miss the interrupt. Almost. Legion on Rannoch making peace between the Geth and Quarians. Back then we had to play multiplayer to get good endings. It was required. I had all the assets. I made my speech to my team on Earth before the final push. The paragon speech. We fought our way to the beam. Then the beam run. I had Garrus and James with me. There was no Normandy pickup in the original game. Shepard had to trudge onward... alone. Then Harbinger hit my Shep. Fade to white and then the blue. I staggered to my feet with my sidearm in hand and shot the three husks, then the Marauder and went into the beam. Then things really got weird. I had noticed that I didn't have to reload. So I shot the Keeper several times. They're supposed to disintegrate if disturbed. Nothing happened. Something was wrong. All those dreams with oily shadows and reaper sounds, and now this. Anderson said he got to the Citadel after me but somewhere else and got to a control panel. Then The Illusive Man magically appears with oily shadows of indoctrination. I shot Anderson. Tears of anger well up. The Illusive Man gets ready to shoot Anderson. I shoot The Illusive Man. Then Shepard taps the panel and opens the Citadel and sits down. Best seats in the house. "Shepard. Commander Shepard. Nothing's happening. It must be something on your end." It looks like Shepard collapsed and died. Then that ending. Starbrat. "... I know you want to destroy us. You can destroy all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth." "But the reapers will be destroyed?" "Yes, but the peace won't last. Soon your children will build synthetics and the chaos will begin again." "There has to be another way." "There is. You may want to try and control us." "So the Illusive Man was right after all." "Yes, but he could never control us because we controlled him. There is another choice." "And that is?" "Synthesis. Add your energy to the crucible and send it out across the galaxy creating a new DNA." "I... don't know." "Why not? You're part synthetic yourself. Your time grows short and you have a difficult decision to make. Using the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays." Shepard wanted to get rid of the murderbots and so walked toward the red tube. She raised her pistol and fired. The mass relays exploded. The reapers were destroyed. The Normandy crashed. There was no refuse ending - well you could force quit the game and remove your disk instead of making a choice. That would have been the refuse ending. "Did all that really happen?" "Yes, but some of the details were lost with time. It all happened so very long ago." "Will I ever get to the stars?" "One day my sweet. Out there, there are billions of stars. And around them are billions of worlds each with a story of its own." "Tell me another story about The Shepard." "It's getting late, but alright, one more story." Shepard took a breath. "You can enjoy more stories about Commander Shepard by purchasing DLC from EA in the Microsoft Store." I sat there stunned at 3:20 am on March 22, 2012. I remembered what happened when that asteroid crashed into the mass relay in Arrival. The mass relays were destroyed. Did everyone die? I went to bed and tried to sleep. Did everyone in the galaxy die except in systems that were not on next to a mass relay? The next morning I checked the other endings. All the endings were the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen. You died, the relays exploded, and the Normandy crashed. "The galaxy is a wasteland," according to Mac Walters, lead writer for ME3. I just wanted to see Liara, Garrus and the gang again after it was all over. I ate a pint of Haagen-Daaz.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 23, 2021 0:18:53 GMT
but I always assumed it was the Love Intrest who put up the name. So...who puts it up if not them? It would likely be Samantha, I did a playthrough not romancing anyone she was the one who held the nameplate. The same when I romanced Miranda. It depends on who you talk with the most.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jun 23, 2021 0:43:10 GMT
How about a little support for our new arrival.... I found this oldie but goodie among my saved Youtube links.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 23, 2021 0:54:22 GMT
How about a little support for our new arrival.... I found this oldie but goodie among my saved Youtube links. Here's a thread people can post what they believe happened to all the characters after the events of ME3.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 23, 2021 2:20:21 GMT
but I always assumed it was the Love Intrest who put up the name. So...who puts it up if not them? It would likely be Samantha, I did a playthrough not romancing anyone she was the one who held the nameplate. The same when I romanced Miranda. It depends on who you talk with the most. The sequence that determines who puts the plaque up is actually quite complicated. It will be the LI if the LI is alive and there of course. If that's not an option (because the LI is dead or not there, the game will go through each squad mate and Cortez and check their friendship value (an internal integer value that gets modified by certain conversations, how many missions you took the squad mate on with you, etc.) If it finds someone who is eligible, that person will set the plaque. Traynor is the last in that sequence. Of course, if she is the LI, she will set the plaque by default but she also functions as the last stopgap if the game doesn't find anyone else who is eligible to place the plaque.
By the way, similar complicated setups are used in the EC to determine things like which character will be shown in the falshbacks, who talk Joker into leaving and who will exit the Normandy on the weirdo planet.
Say what you will about the memorial but you gotta hand it to the dev who made the setup there, they did put quite a bit of effort into it.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 23, 2021 3:10:56 GMT
It would likely be Samantha, I did a playthrough not romancing anyone she was the one who held the nameplate. The same when I romanced Miranda. It depends on who you talk with the most. The sequence that determines who puts the plaque up is actually quite complicated. It will be the LI if the LI is alive and there of course. If that's not an option (because the LI is dead or not there, the game will go through each squad mate and Cortez and check their friendship value (an internal integer value that gets modified by certain conversations, how many missions you took the squad mate on with you, etc.) If it finds someone who is eligible, that person will set the plaque. Traynor is the last in that sequence. Of course, if she is the LI, she will set the plaque by default but she also functions as the last stopgap if the game doesn't find anyone else who is eligible to place the plaque. If Traynor is last in the sequence, then why was she the one who held it both times for me? Did you know if Liara is killed by Harbinger, she will always be in the second flashback unless she is romanced? Here's a thread mentioning the flashbacks
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jun 23, 2021 4:00:20 GMT
Again, there is considerable room for interpretation in the catalysts explanations. I don't see a plot issue in the fact that different technologies and different applications might be affected in different ways.
Also, just by the way, Asari need implants and amps just like everyone else. In ME1, you equip Liara with an amp, just like Kaidan and Wrex and the Serrrice Council is even known for making the best biotic amps around.
I forgot about Wrex. Thank you. Yeah he’d de dead too. The lore says they are naturally able to use their biotic. Liara being equipped amps in ME1 was gameplay-lore segregation (equipping amps at all was considering in lore swapping them is a very dangerous surgical procedure). And people can make something without needing it for themselves. All asari are naturally biotic, yes. But they still need amps to properly harness them. In fact, the Serrice Council, an asari company, is the premiere producers of biotic amps. Which makes sense since they're all biotic and have had thousands of years to perfect their amps...
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bayni
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Post by bayni on Jun 23, 2021 6:55:43 GMT
How the heck is my Shepard gonna be ok? She is in a pile of rubble on a destroyed Citadel, no food no water and who knows what kind of injuries.Well....there's still that long gigantic pond on the presidium, should be water left from that possibly....and fish. And of course the remains of Keeper meat.....just saying.... (sorry I couldn't help it) On a serious note though...so wait Garrus (the LI in this case) doesn't put up the name at the end? Really? Wow. I've only chosen Liara as a main (with Ashley or Miranda probably being my second choice, but I really like the cosmic astro eternity hug and kiss scene before the final battle, plus my Shep is biotic), but I always assumed it was the Love Intrest who put up the name. So...who puts it up if not them? And yea the games will get you emotional, they did a great job at that throughout the trilogy. Hell, at least for me, its the ONLY game series that gets me emotional... What I meant was in my ending Garrus had my Shepard’s name but he did not place it on the board above Anderson. He just holds it and seems to smile. Then it cuts to my Shepard taking her breath.
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sugarless
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sugarless on Jun 23, 2021 7:15:55 GMT
How about a little support for our new arrival.... I found this oldie but goodie among my saved Youtube links. oh mah gawd, Tali's entry and the last bit about James
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