BountyhunterGER
N2

Trying to be more active.. We'll see how this goes. - This went well..
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Origin: BountyhunterGER
PSN: BountyhunterGER
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Trying to be more active.. We'll see how this goes. - This went well..
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Post by BountyhunterGER on Aug 14, 2016 14:29:59 GMT
I don't know.. I slightly disliked her first and now I just don't care about her anymore (She is OK I guess.. FAAAR from being my favourite (or one of them) but OK). I always recruit her(I do that with everyone) and bring her with me on some missions for banter. Her scene in Tresspasser was great though.
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ewigDunkelheit
N3
 
Exalt the Dwarf Age!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Aug 16, 2016 19:13:01 GMT
I absolutely love Vivenne.
One of my comments from before: "Vivienne (melee mage!) gets a permanent space on my squad. She even beats my romance out, by being in the party more often. I love her sass, her attitude, her clever machinations, her flair, her style, her confidence, and so on. I like putting her in heavy armor and having her blast people with a crafted Blade of Tidarion"
...and:
"For me, I simply don't see all of that negative side of her. Vivienne likes my Inquisitor. Sure, she is still manipulating the situation for her gain, but, in my Inquisitor's case, they are friends. My Inquisitor is an Andrastian that is finally being allowed to "stand tall" and sing the praises of his faith. Being typically excluded, my Inquisitor is actually trying to reconstruct the Chantry as it was, not as some sort of new, progressive, evolved form of the institution. Besides hoping other races can participate, and that mages should be included, he comes from a pretty traditional platform. And he relies on Vivienne for guidance in many things. So, despite dissolving the organization in the end, I always envisioned my Inquisitor being Divine Vivienne's Right Hand.
Obviously, this alters the dynamic of the relationship. Whereas other players can rightfully despise Vivienne due to their interactions, I adore her."
Vivienne deftly carves a place for herself in the changing landscape, and I am happy to share my journey with her.
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thesupremedarkone
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I have returned to grace this forum with my presence
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Aug 20, 2016 22:46:43 GMT
It's funny how different the thread is without n7 around
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 22, 2016 5:19:56 GMT
It's a shame that the writers set up to make her unavailable to have a romantic relationship with her, she has the perfect qualities of a LI to be. And I personally believe that the writers put the Duke for Vivienne to make her unavailable, and I personally believe the reason why they intended to make her not available to have a relationship is because they don't want a black woman as a love interest. Sad really I was looking forward to it.
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Post by HYR on Aug 24, 2016 16:34:05 GMT
I have nothing of any real substance to add, but.... Vivienne FTW
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Darkstarr11
N2

The waiting it over. I think...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Darkstarr11 on Aug 24, 2016 23:48:02 GMT
Ahhh, Madam Vivienne. Wow, where to start.
Okay, I fall into the 'love to hate' camp more than anything. She's condescending, self absorbed, and no where NEAR as smart or as cunning as she makes herself out to be. She's also bigoted, and racist (though to be fair, most everyone is Orlais is, so you kinda have to expect that). From the moment my Dalish First met her, she immediately began talking down to her as if she were less than. Her attempts to display her usefulness only works if you don't actually look to hard at it...which, was why she approached you in such a fashion. At no point did I feel that she was 'necessary' as a party member or as part of the Inquisition. Dorian and Solas provided more insight and knowledge into the events than she ever did. I mean, I absolutely adored her trolling of Sera, but her lack of humility and utter contempt for magic and cultures outside Orlais and the Circle were rather shocking. I did enjoy watching her seethe as I took her to the Arbor Wilds, and how Morrigan dismissed her with amusement (then again, if your mother was an ancient witch like Flemeth, nothing Vivienne threw at her was going to do anything other than make her homesick, or amused).
Now, that being said...Vivienne DID impress me in specific ways. First, she is an unchanging, relentless and ruthless individual. She had to be. At some point, she made a specific choice to NOT be defined by what others would make of her. She is, in fact, an incredibly powerful and savvy self made woman. Her accomplishments, be they incredible or repugnant, were her own. She did it. She's also loyal. Assuming the Inquisitor assists her in her endeavors, she proves to be a steadfast and canny ally. Once she is able to rebuild her power base, she appears to put it to good use on the Inquisitors part. After Trespasser, she rebuilds the Circle through wit and will. While I do not see her as being sharper than Dorian OR Solas (both are clearly at the top of their respective games and have being involved in magic that went beyond theoretical), she is cunning and brave enough to dive into the thick of it for the Inquisitors cause.
As a character, I enjoyed how she was IMMENSELY different from both Morrigan and Anders. Morrigan was a snarky, selfish witch trained by Flemeth. She possessed immense knowledge, but was about as social as a recently stepped on rattlesnake. She was devious, and clearly out for her own ends, but in the end, could be warmed up to become a lover...or a very close friend to the Warden. Yet it took three games for her to get a decent serving of humble pie (or crow...wait, that's funnier). Anders was also a snarky mage who came from the Circle and basically had the worst possible experience you could have there. While Morrigan was outwardly prickly, Anders kept most of it hidden...until he and Justice decided that two heads were better than one. Which, at that point, as far as I can tell...'Anders' died, giving way to whatever that thing was that turned Kirkwall into a mass grave. Unlike Morrigan, Anders warmed up quick...and then as whatever sanity he had slipped away, grew distant and fanatical. Vivienne on the other hand, stuck to her guns (or staff?). She was snarky, proud, and unchanging. From the start, you pretty much knew where she stood, and that WASN'T going to change. Very few unknowns came with the First Enchanter. She wanted the Circle back, her power base rebuilt and control over the Circles (and to an extent, the Templars). You KNEW she was in it for the power, she told you so. She delighted in being the 'villain' amongst the 'heroes'. You had to respect that.
Now, she was close-minded, dismissing Solas but to be fair, she REALLY, REALLY couldn't have know who she was talking to (by the way, she MIGHT want to watch her back, and hope he doesn't hold a grudge...she'd last no longer than the Viddisala). She was out of her depth, but that really wasn't her fault...time magic was theoretical, and Rift magic was rather new. Nor could she have known that the Wardens were necessary (though that lately has been put into doubt, even Morrigan hinted that it might not be true), or that the Veil was a creation rather than always having existed. She's basically up against Dragon Age's version of Revan (or close enough).
I REALLY hate her...but I am so glad she's there as a counterpoint to the previous mage companions (pro=Circle Wynne, swamp witch Morrigan, unlucky Sketch, vengeful Velanna, rebel Anders, blood mage Merrill, pariah Dorian and...Solas). She like nothing we've had, and I'm GLAD she's in the game. I'm NOT fond of her, but why should we ALWAYS have someone we can bend to our will, or turn to our favor. It would have been wrong if we could just talk her into being a different person...that ISN'T who she is. She made herself, and refuses to be 'remade' into what someone else wants. Good. Again, hate her, but respect the character, and think its awesome that she was put into the game. Though, if the trend follows, she MAY get some comeuppance in future titles...rule of three, ya know?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 30, 2016 17:29:30 GMT
I love Vivienne. She's ballsy and is 100% allowed to step on me anytime she pleases. with high heels?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 30, 2016 17:31:24 GMT
She isn't my favorite but she is alright. Personally I like her better then solas. Throwing up a barrier now.
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bardox
N2

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Post by bardox on Sept 1, 2016 1:30:27 GMT
I like the Viv from a story tellers POV. She is a complex character that offers insight into the inner workings of the Orliasian court and the loyalist side of the Circle mages. She is my Divine of choice, actually. A master of "The Game", every sentence well rehearsed before uttering a single word, and has that "holier than thou art" attitude. Plus, the next Divine being a pompous witch with staff wedged firmly up her butt is just too perfect for me to pass up.
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Ondine
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Post by Ondine on Sept 1, 2016 13:02:12 GMT
I like Viv and respect her, even though I don't share her views at all. I absolutely adore her banter, besides the one with Cole. But she's such a wasted potential. I always think that her character could've way more room for development and in the end, it didn't.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 2, 2016 10:46:10 GMT
It seems to me that the writers set it up for her to have no back story of why she's self absorbed, and fearful of her own power. I wonder why didn't they provide her a back story to humanize her and to get to know her better, it seems that she's the only playable Female character that has no story. I want to what really happened to her before she became First Enchanter. What happened to her parents? What trials that she had to endure? Those are the questions I want answered and I think it is another part of BW intent to not have a woman of color to have a back story or to have a relationship with. I feel like if they want to do a black character do it right without stereotyping or don't make them at all.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2016 18:17:02 GMT
It's a shame that the writers set up to make her unavailable to have a romantic relationship with her, she has the perfect qualities of a LI to be. And I personally believe that the writers put the Duke for Vivienne to make her unavailable, and I personally believe the reason why they intended to make her not available to have a relationship is because they don't want a black woman as a love interest. Sad really I was looking forward to it. Bioware has made multiple love interests who are black women. There is even one in the Dragon Age series: Isabela.
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lynroy
N6
    
Thief
Current Location: Tennessee
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3tWits
PSN: The3tWits
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Post by lynroy on Sept 2, 2016 18:28:23 GMT
It's a shame that the writers set up to make her unavailable to have a romantic relationship with her, she has the perfect qualities of a LI to be. And I personally believe that the writers put the Duke for Vivienne to make her unavailable, and I personally believe the reason why they intended to make her not available to have a relationship is because they don't want a black woman as a love interest. Sad really I was looking forward to it. It seems to me that the writers set it up for her to have no back story of why she's self absorbed, and fearful of her own power. I wonder why didn't they provide her a back story to humanize her and to get to know her better, it seems that she's the only playable Female character that has no story. I want to what really happened to her before she became First Enchanter. What happened to her parents? What trials that she had to endure? Those are the questions I want answered and I think it is another part of BW intent to not have a woman of color to have a back story or to have a relationship with. I feel like if they want to do a black character do it right without stereotyping or don't make them at all. It's funny how different the thread is without n7 around*cough* You were saying?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2016 18:31:48 GMT
It's funny how different the thread is without n7 around*cough* You were saying? I like how the very next post is N7. It's as if they are like Beeetlejuice, Candy Man, etc and if you say their name they are summoned. 
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Post by Catilina on Sept 2, 2016 18:32:06 GMT
It's a shame that the writers set up to make her unavailable to have a romantic relationship with her, she has the perfect qualities of a LI to be. And I personally believe that the writers put the Duke for Vivienne to make her unavailable, and I personally believe the reason why they intended to make her not available to have a relationship is because they don't want a black woman as a love interest. Sad really I was looking forward to it. Bioware has made multiple love interests who are black women. There is even one in the Dragon Age series: Isabela. Leave him, not worth. Seems just a simple provocateur, I dont think, you can convince him only with logical argues. (See in the Isabela thread)
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 2, 2016 19:18:30 GMT
It's a shame that the writers set up to make her unavailable to have a romantic relationship with her, she has the perfect qualities of a LI to be. And I personally believe that the writers put the Duke for Vivienne to make her unavailable, and I personally believe the reason why they intended to make her not available to have a relationship is because they don't want a black woman as a love interest. Sad really I was looking forward to it. Bioware has made multiple love interests who are black women. There is even one in the Dragon Age series: Isabela. *Why people always throw Isabella on the plate?* I want to have a relationship with Vivienne because, she's an interesting character and she has class and demands respect that made me attracted to her. That gives her an edge over Isabella because she doesn't give a damn who she sleeps with and that's a shame that they didn't made her available as a romance option.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 2, 2016 19:31:04 GMT
Bioware has made multiple love interests who are black women. There is even one in the Dragon Age series: Isabela. Leave him, not worth. Seems just a simple provocateur, I dont think, you can convince him only with logical argues. (See in the Isabela thread) Dude you cannot convince nobody to make someone believe what you believe.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2016 19:33:04 GMT
Bioware has made multiple love interests who are black women. There is even one in the Dragon Age series: Isabela. *Why people always throw Isabella on the plate?* I want to have a relationship with Vivienne because, she's an interesting character and she has class and demands respect that made me attracted to her. That gives her an edge over Isabella because she doesn't give a damn who she sleeps with and that's a shame that they didn't made her available as a romance option. And that is a perfectly valid want to have. However, just because she is not an option does not mean Bioware has some agenda against you or a certain race.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 2, 2016 19:34:20 GMT
Leave him, not worth. Seems just a simple provocateur, I dont think, you can convince him only with logical argues. (See in the Isabela thread) Dude you cannot convince nobody to make someone believe what you believe. This is why I dont try it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2016 19:36:59 GMT
Bioware has made multiple love interests who are black women. There is even one in the Dragon Age series: Isabela. Leave him, not worth. Seems just a simple provocateur, I dont think, you can convince him only with logical argues. (See in the Isabela thread) Oh, trust me I know. I've had several discussions with them on the old BSN. However, I like to do it sometimes 
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 2, 2016 19:39:08 GMT
*Why people always throw Isabella on the plate?* I want to have a relationship with Vivienne because, she's an interesting character and she has class and demands respect that made me attracted to her. That gives her an edge over Isabella because she doesn't give a damn who she sleeps with and that's a shame that they didn't made her available as a romance option. And that is a perfectly valid want to have. However, just because she is not an option does not mean Bioware has some agenda against you or a certain race. They have plenty of times and it's not like they're hiding it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2016 19:41:30 GMT
And that is a perfectly valid want to have. However, just because she is not an option does not mean Bioware has some agenda against you or a certain race. They have plenty of times and it's not like they're hiding it. The only thing Bioware has done plenty of times regarding this is prove you to be objectively wrong.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 2, 2016 20:20:46 GMT
Leave him, not worth. Seems just a simple provocateur, I dont think, you can convince him only with logical argues. (See in the Isabela thread) Dude you cannot convince nobody to make someone believe what you believe. Hate to be that person but grammar. You have just said that you can convince anybody to believe what you believe. Double negatives...*shudder*
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 2, 2016 21:12:24 GMT
I like Viv and respect her, even though I don't share her views at all. I absolutely adore her banter, besides the one with Cole. But she's such a wasted potential. I always think that her character could've way more room for development and in the end, it didn't. I agree that BioWare wasted potential of Vivienne's character development and it just seems suspicious to me.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 3, 2016 1:13:04 GMT
I like Viv and respect her, even though I don't share her views at all. I absolutely adore her banter, besides the one with Cole. But she's such a wasted potential. I always think that her character could've way more room for development and in the end, it didn't. I agree that BioWare wasted potential of Vivienne's character development and it just seems suspicious to me. I do agree with you that Vivienne's role in the Game could have been better emphasized like in the Winter Palace and gaining more support in Noble related table missions. I also believe you're not alone in wanting Viv to be a romance option. It could have been intriguing, after Bastienne's death if she turned to the Inquisitor for comfort but the player is always wondering how much is her affection calculated? If you're concerned about representation or variety with romance options, there's always the option to ask Bioware politely. Garrus and Tali for example, were not intended to be romanced at first but the developers were swayed by the level of art fans committed to it. I'm sure you'd be able to find support in having someone like Vivienne as a romance depending on how courteously you phrase it.
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