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Post by cloud9 on Sept 3, 2016 2:44:04 GMT
I agree that BioWare wasted potential of Vivienne's character development and it just seems suspicious to me. I do agree with you that Vivienne's role in the Game could have been better emphasized like in the Winter Palace and gaining more support in Noble related table missions. I also believe you're not alone in wanting Viv to be a romance option. It could have been intriguing, after Bastienne's death if she turned to the Inquisitor for comfort but the player is always wondering how much is her affection calculated? If you're concerned about representation or variety with romance options, there's always the option to ask Bioware politely. Garrus and Tali for example, were not intended to be romanced at first but the developers were swayed by the level of art fans committed to it. I'm sure you'd be able to find support in having someone like Vivienne as a romance depending on how courteously you phrase it. They have every chance to make her available for a romance option especially Trespasser, but it seems that they didn't do that either. Sad.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 3, 2016 3:24:02 GMT
Maybe the next game will have what you are looking for, cloud9. (I'd start asking Bioware just in case. They can't accomodate unless fans tell them)
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 3, 2016 3:53:29 GMT
They're not and they never ever will because it seems to me there's something about a black woman they don't want anyone to have a real relationship with. They did good job of making most of the characters as romance options except her and she would be a wonderful person to have a one on one with, because she's a type of person that will have your back and don't take no shit from no one.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 3, 2016 3:56:57 GMT
They're not and they never ever will because it seems to me there's something about a black woman they don't want anyone to have a real relationship with. They did good job of making most of the characters as romance options except her and she would be a wonderful person to have a one on one with, because she's a type of person that will have your back and don't take no shit from no one. Obviously, this is a conspiracy.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 3, 2016 9:49:34 GMT
They have plenty of times and it's not like they're hiding it. The only thing Bioware has done plenty of times regarding this is prove you to be objectively wrong. They didn't prove a damn thing.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Sept 3, 2016 11:57:49 GMT
It's a breath of fresh air to see how n7 isnt trying to deny that it's him. Now why haven't the mods banned him already considering his usual actions
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 12:34:31 GMT
It's a breath of fresh air to see how n7 isnt trying to deny that it's him. Now why haven't the mods banned him already considering his usual actions I know, and thanks for calling him out before I did - I already knew it was him immediately on sight - it doesn't take much to spot N7 if your me - he has a certain writing style about him...
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 5, 2016 4:56:21 GMT
Vivienne had the greatest potential as a romance option hell she would be the one of the best in the whole game.
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Post by Darkstarr11 on Sept 5, 2016 10:59:29 GMT
As she wasn't an LI in Inquisition, there is always a future title. Isabela and Merrill weren't LIs when they first showed up, neither was Cassandra. Nor Anders. So the possibility remains that Vivienne COULD end up as a possible romance in a future title, as a companion, or in some advisory role, like Josie or Cullen. There are a lot of possibilities. And yes, it was a bit of a wasted opportunity, but I heard that she was originally slated to be an advisor, and be MUCH worse than she is now. Something to the effect of her Duke's illness being something she CAUSED intentionally...
So we'll see. I would like to see her in a future game, and if she was a romance option, I think we'd see a bit of a different side of her. Not MUCH, but perhaps the Ice Queen would go from frozen to just mildly chilled...
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Post by Beregond5 on Sept 5, 2016 16:41:57 GMT
Warning: Not being serious... not much anywayThough I see the appeal of Vivienne as an LI, I think I also remember that if you took Vivienne with you into the Fade during the siege of Adamant, the Nightmare demon would taunt her with something akin to 'Do you think you can reclaim the Circle... at your *age*?' We do know Vivienne knows how to create a longevity potion. So... that means only one thing: You're welcome.
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Post by Darkstarr11 on Sept 6, 2016 1:03:40 GMT
Warning: Not being serious... not much anywayThough I see the appeal of Vivienne as an LI, I think I also remember that if you took Vivienne with you into the Fade during the siege of Adamant, the Nightmare demon would taunt her with something akin to 'Do you think you can reclaim the Circle... at your *age*?' We do know Vivienne knows how to create a longevity potion. So... that means only one thing: You're welcome. Yup, thanks...now I need to go find bleach for my brain AND eyes, thankssomuch... ...lol...btw, NOT what I was thinking when I talked about a different side of Viv...
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Post by Nimlowyn on Sept 6, 2016 1:10:05 GMT
I'd like to know why Vivienne believes the Wardens are a relic of a bygone age when they saved Thedas merely ten years before.
I guess she'd have to deny that they actually saved Thedas. Which introduces another train of thought among Thedosians I'd love to learn more about.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 6, 2016 1:28:35 GMT
As she wasn't an LI in Inquisition, there is always a future title. Isabela and Merrill weren't LIs when they first showed up, neither was Cassandra. Nor Anders. So the possibility remains that Vivienne COULD end up as a possible romance in a future title, as a companion, or in some advisory role, like Josie or Cullen. There are a lot of possibilities. And yes, it was a bit of a wasted opportunity, but I heard that she was originally slated to be an advisor, and be MUCH worse than she is now. Something to the effect of her Duke's illness being something she CAUSED intentionally... So we'll see. I would like to see her in a future game, and if she was a romance option, I think we'd see a bit of a different side of her. Not MUCH, but perhaps the Ice Queen would go from frozen to just mildly chilled... I highly doubt that Vivienne will be a companion or a romance option in DA4. With how her situation can be at the end of DAI, with her either leading the new Circle she formed or being Divine Victoria, it wouldn't make sense for her to be in DA4 as anything more than a cameo.
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Post by Beregond5 on Sept 6, 2016 7:18:42 GMT
Yup, thanks...now I need to go find bleach for my brain AND eyes, thankssomuch... ...lol...btw, NOT what I was thinking when I talked about a different side of Viv... *offers some* Joke aside, I think it's quite easy during one's first playthrough to see her as nothing more than a stuck up Orlesian who only wants to be part of the Inquisition to accomplish her own ends - and they wouldn't be wrong. It's just that, in repeat playthroughs, and as you listen in on her banter with the others and then you spot her greatest fear in the Fade, you can see a woman who worked *very* hard to make people see more to her than just a 'mage of the Circle' and therefore a subject of contempt. I mean, your character might be the Inquisitor, but people in the Winter Palace still look down on *you* if you're a mage - noble lineage or not. And now, with the mage and templar war raging on, she's no longer a Grand Enchanter - she's an apostate. She's basically where she started - maybe even lower than that - and that frightens her. So, she tries to regain even part of what she lost. Sure, she believes the best way to do that is to bring back the circles, but that's what she knows and she's comfortable with. I do not agree or approve (even though there are times that she does make some pretty good points against the mage rebellion), but I can see where she's coming from. And, hey, I said it before, and others mentioned it too, she *has* good qualities. You just have to know where to look.
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Darkstarr11
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The waiting it over. I think...
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Post by Darkstarr11 on Sept 6, 2016 7:47:27 GMT
As she wasn't an LI in Inquisition, there is always a future title. Isabela and Merrill weren't LIs when they first showed up, neither was Cassandra. Nor Anders. So the possibility remains that Vivienne COULD end up as a possible romance in a future title, as a companion, or in some advisory role, like Josie or Cullen. There are a lot of possibilities. And yes, it was a bit of a wasted opportunity, but I heard that she was originally slated to be an advisor, and be MUCH worse than she is now. Something to the effect of her Duke's illness being something she CAUSED intentionally... So we'll see. I would like to see her in a future game, and if she was a romance option, I think we'd see a bit of a different side of her. Not MUCH, but perhaps the Ice Queen would go from frozen to just mildly chilled... I highly doubt that Vivienne will be a companion or a romance option in DA4. With how her situation can be at the end of DAI, with her either leading the new Circle she formed or being Divine Victoria, it wouldn't make sense for her to be in DA4 as anything more than a cameo. Fair point. I figure at best, she'll have an advisory position, or be part of an opposing faction. With TWO mage groups in Thedas, you KNOW things are going to start hitting the fan...again. The fact that she appears to recreate the circle no matter what seems to give the impression that she'll have a greater role...but who knows? If we DON'T see her again, I won't shed many tears...but I personally think we'll at least see SOMETHING of her. Though a romance with an older woman probably ISN'T out of the cards...how old was Solas, after all?
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Post by bardox on Sept 7, 2016 16:38:11 GMT
As I mentioned in an earlier post, Viv is my Divine of choice. She has the proper vision of what the Circles should be IMO. As Divine she would be in the best position to bring that about. I also don't see Cassandra nor Leliana as a good fit for Divine. Cassandra has no talent for "The Game". She would get run over in the politics. Leliana is a fair student of the game, but she pales in comparison to Vivienne. Cassandra is better off rebuilding the Seeker. The way I play things out, the Inquisition becomes a peace keeping force. So Leliana will still be a vital part of the Inquisition. Viv on the other hand, she was never a really big part of the things. Viv was just kinda of... there. She can go her own way without impacting the Inquisition.
As for romancing her in a later game, I don't know. The series doesn't have much time between the titles. Doubt the next game will be far off enoughfor her to be considered "too old." Although, as Divine she would not be allow a lover. All part and partial, the whole Divine gig. Leader of a religion, inspiration of the faithful, and eternal spinster. But she does tend to follow her own set of rules so... maybe...
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Post by xerrai on Sept 7, 2016 18:11:53 GMT
It's not that she's incapable of caring for anybody (she clearly cares for mages), it's just that she makes it clear she out for herself first and others second. Her first priority is gaining power and security for herself, and only doing stuff for others when she feels her position is secure.
She honestly believes the rebel mages are the ones predominantly in the wrong when they ask for freedom. Not the Templars (they're just "tools that were misused"), not the Chantry, not even the possibility that the Circle system in its current form has flaws. It's the mages. The malcontents. The ones that must be crushed. Yet somehow the Templars are exempt from wrongdoing because they were "mishandled" by the Chantry.
She's not inherently malicious. Just ruthlessly set in her ways to a fault. Her bloody reign as Divine should tell that much (at least Leliana primarily did strategic killings...). In a way I would call her partially misguided.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Sept 15, 2016 1:39:41 GMT
Love her.
My second favorite companion after Sera. I don't really agree with a lot of her opinions but i enjoy her personality and powers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 2:49:14 GMT
When I first played the game and recruited her, I knew she wouldn't like my quizz after the first few talks and after seeing so many Vivi Disproved; I stopped talking to her not long after I got Skyhold. Only talking to her once in the middle of the game where she gave a passive aggressive insult and then went back to ignoring her. I'm really glad I did that after seeing the video of where she moves your furniture and has this stupid spat with the Quizz where, with her dialogue armor, defeated the Quizz. That pissed me off. I hate when characters have dialogue armor. I hate that the Quizz is forced into a powerless position. That ruins RP for me and shows the Quizz as a weak leader.
I hate that she can pull that crap and the Quizz doesn't have the option to kick her out of the Inquisition. Why is that? The Quizz is the supposed leader of this organization, basically the boss, and their employees are walking all over them. Which makes it seems like the Quizz has no real authority, they're just a fancy figurehead and nothing more. Some Quizzes may not want to kick her out after that, but this does a disservice for players who play a no nonsense, not going take this bs Quizz.
And to this day I never recruit her. I either refuse her request to join or avoid the area in val royeaux where that mage is in. I can't stand Sera, but at least you can kick her out at anytime which makes her infinitely better then the Iron Lady in my opinion. Beyond that I don't really care about her. Though I will say she doesn't seem as evil as some people make her out to be, more of lawfully neutral.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 3:53:57 GMT
I'd like to know why Vivienne believes the Wardens are a relic of a bygone age when they saved Thedas merely ten years before. I guess she'd have to deny that they actually saved Thedas. Which introduces another train of thought among Thedosians I'd love to learn more about. The way she talked to Blackwall about made it seem like you only need two wardens, not a whole army of them. Ignoring the fact that it took a whole army to even reach and fight off the Archedemon. Yeah, Grey Wardens is one of those subjects where Vivienne is ridiculously stupid about.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 1, 2016 21:15:02 GMT
I really want to have a relationship with her with my character and have the perfect qualities of a romantic interest. All that effort wasted but I believe that BioWare intended to set up to flirt with her, and laughing at my character's face. What a bunch of jerk offs......
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Post by Catilina on Oct 1, 2016 22:58:20 GMT
I really want to have a relationship with her with my character and have the perfect qualities of a romantic interest. All that effort wasted but I believe that BioWare intended to set up to flirt with her, and laughing at my character's face. What a bunch of jerk offs...... Because she in relationship at the beginning, and after she lost her lover. I not so much like her, but I totally understand her mourning... I do not think it's a Bioware-conspiracy.
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 2, 2016 0:10:19 GMT
I really want to have a relationship with her with my character and have the perfect qualities of a romantic interest. All that effort wasted but I believe that BioWare intended to set up to flirt with her, and laughing at my character's face. What a bunch of jerk offs...... You do realize that if Vivienne were a romance option, she would wear the pants in the relationship?
Announcer: All hail Lady Vivienne, Imperial Court Magical Advisor, First Enchanter of the White Spire, crusher of the rebel mages, and Hero of Thedas!
Vivenne: Greeting my followers. We have won many great victories, but we are still needed. With your devotion and hard work, I will lead the Inquisition to even greater heights-
N7: But, I'm the Inquisitor-
Vivienne: Shush darling, the grown ups are speaking. Just stand and look pretty, it's what you're best at.
N7: (shrinks)... yes dear...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 0:30:37 GMT
I really want to have a relationship with her with my character and have the perfect qualities of a romantic interest. All that effort wasted but I believe that BioWare intended to set up to flirt with her, and laughing at my character's face. What a bunch of jerk offs...... You do realize that if Vivienne were a romance option, she would wear the pants in the relationship?
Announcer: All hail Lady Vivienne, Imperial Court Magical Advisor, First Enchanter of the White Spire, crusher of the rebel mages, and Hero of Thedas!
Vivenne: Greeting my followers. We have won many great victories, but we are still needed. With your devotion and hard work, I will lead the Inquisition to even greater heights-
N7: But, I'm the Inquisitor-
Vivienne: Shush darling, the grown ups are speaking. Just stand and look pretty, it's what you're best at.
N7: (shrinks)... yes dear...
Some people are really into that.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 2, 2016 5:26:52 GMT
I really want to have a relationship with her with my character and have the perfect qualities of a romantic interest. All that effort wasted but I believe that BioWare intended to set up to flirt with her, and laughing at my character's face. What a bunch of jerk offs...... You do realize that if Vivienne were a romance option, she would wear the pants in the relationship?
Announcer: All hail Lady Vivienne, Imperial Court Magical Advisor, First Enchanter of the White Spire, crusher of the rebel mages, and Hero of Thedas!
Vivenne: Greeting my followers. We have won many great victories, but we are still needed. With your devotion and hard work, I will lead the Inquisition to even greater heights-
N7: But, I'm the Inquisitor-
Vivienne: Shush darling, the grown ups are speaking. Just stand and look pretty, it's what you're best at.
N7: (shrinks)... yes dear...
Where are you going with this?
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