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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 4:48:45 GMT
That is why they should've create a backstory to get to know her better, I was wondering what she was so afraid of that made her so materialistic, cold, and controlling. From what she fear? From herself. And why? Because she lived in the Circle, and the Circles are toxic. They destroy the personality of mages and also templars. She is not really strong. She wounded. So much. Why she cold? Well, that's why. Because of she born as mage, and lived in the Circle, and accept, that she is a monster. But tried not show, what she feel. Vivienne one of the best examples, why the Circle system is wrong (all people psychically damaged, who live a long time in such a place like the Circle, quite hard to imagine, that anyone would survive that, and still totally sane...). My opinion. And why she have that terrible manners, and why she likes the game and politic so much? Because there are people, who have terrible manners and likes this things. This is the reason why should not Vivienne become Divine. A psychologically damaged, but arrogant, manipulative person really dangerous, if have political power. This scene prove this theory (just try to imagine, that this womonster got bigger political power...): Hmmm I just now wached this:
(I never let her kill this man, but I was convinced: finally she let him go, but she simply a sociopath – maybe blame the Circle-system...) I remember hearing that the Iron Lady lived in poverty before she was brought into the Circle. Coming from that kind of lifestyle into one with gilding, she probably appreciated and cherished more then others. So much so that she keeps such a tight grip on her current power and desires more of it. Creating as much distance between her and her old life of poverty as possible. Now that I think of it, it expands on the comparison between her and Sera. Sera was raised by a noble but chose to live among the little people, while Iron Lady was once one of those little people but struggled to the top to be among the nobles.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 3, 2016 10:53:56 GMT
I remember hearing that the Iron Lady lived in poverty before she was brought into the Circle. Coming from that kind of lifestyle into one with gilding, she probably appreciated and cherished more then others. So much so that she keeps such a tight grip on her current power and desires more of it. Creating as much distance between her and her old life of poverty as possible. Now that I think of it, it expands on the comparison between her and Sera. Sera was raised by a noble but chose to live among the little people, while Iron Lady was once one of those little people but struggled to the top to be among the nobles. Vivienne's parents were both Rivain merchants. That's not the worst work, although it may be that they were poor. But in the Circle she may he live in financial security, but she couldn't own property. So, perhaps you right.
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Post by xerrai on Nov 7, 2016 3:45:11 GMT
I remember hearing that the Iron Lady lived in poverty before she was brought into the Circle. Coming from that kind of lifestyle into one with gilding, she probably appreciated and cherished more then others. So much so that she keeps such a tight grip on her current power and desires more of it. Creating as much distance between her and her old life of poverty as possible. Now that I think of it, it expands on the comparison between her and Sera. Sera was raised by a noble but chose to live among the little people, while Iron Lady was once one of those little people but struggled to the top to be among the nobles. Vivienne's parents were both Rivain merchants. That's not the worst work, although it may be that they were poor. But in the Circle she may he live in financial security, but she couldn't own property. So, perhaps you right. From that point of view it actually makes a lot of sense that she has loyalist views. A good amount mages who were city elves also become a part of the loyalist faction for pretty much the same reason--the Circle 'saved' them from a life of poverty. They are content, tolerant, if not actively grateful for the limitations imposed by the Circles because they are like "Hey, it could be worse". To be fair though, they are kinda right. It could be worse. For them it often was worse.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 7, 2016 3:55:02 GMT
From that point of view it actually makes a lot of sense that she has loyalist views. A good amount mages who were city elves also become a part of the loyalist faction for pretty much the same reason--the Circle 'saved' them from a life of poverty. They are content, tolerant, if not actively grateful for the limitations imposed by the Circles because they are like "Hey, it could be worse". To be fair though, they are kinda right. It could be worse. For them it often was worse. Life of poverty with two merchant parents? A little chance that they are very poor, but I think, if this true, they are so lame merchants. So: Vivienne's and all of the loyalist's soul simply crushed by Chantry (Stockholm syndrome spiced with a little paranoia, remorse and selfhatred, because the Chantry led them to believe they are "cursed" by magic...) I would be able feel sorry for her, if she would not that terrible person...
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 17, 2016 2:15:05 GMT
I really want to have a relationship with her with my character and have the perfect qualities of a romantic interest. All that effort wasted but I believe that BioWare intended to set up to flirt with her, and laughing at my character's face. What a bunch of jerk offs...... You do realize that if Vivienne were a romance option, she would wear the pants in the relationship?
Announcer: All hail Lady Vivienne, Imperial Court Magical Advisor, First Enchanter of the White Spire, crusher of the rebel mages, and Hero of Thedas!
Vivenne: Greeting my followers. We have won many great victories, but we are still needed. With your devotion and hard work, I will lead the Inquisition to even greater heights-
N7: But, I'm the Inquisitor-
Vivienne: Shush darling, the grown ups are speaking. Just stand and look pretty, it's what you're best at.
N7: (shrinks)... yes dear...
Oh really?
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 18, 2016 22:23:55 GMT
You do realize that if Vivienne were a romance option, she would wear the pants in the relationship?
Announcer: All hail Lady Vivienne, Imperial Court Magical Advisor, First Enchanter of the White Spire, crusher of the rebel mages, and Hero of Thedas!
Vivenne: Greeting my followers. We have won many great victories, but we are still needed. With your devotion and hard work, I will lead the Inquisition to even greater heights-
N7: But, I'm the Inquisitor-
Vivienne: Shush darling, the grown ups are speaking. Just stand and look pretty, it's what you're best at.
N7: (shrinks)... yes dear...
Oh really? Seriously? Dredging up an old quote long after I've lost interest? Wow N7, you must be really bored  . Nice song, don't know what it has to do with the topic at hand. Also, anyone else creeped out by a father and daughters R&B/gospel group producing a sex song ? Anyway, I suppose I should have responded to your initial question: Where are you going with this? Can you name any partnership Vivienne has ever entered, whether friends, lovers, professional, or political, that was not an extension of her love of The Game? If not to supplant her current allies, to at least advance her own position? Hell, even The First Enchantress' quarters at Skyhold reflect this; always eyeing the Herald of Andraste's throne, yet simultaneously "above" it  . The Inquisitor is too much of a wildcard for her to properly control, so becoming romantic partners is not beneficial to her. The Iron Lady's own words, remember? The only person I've seen Vivienne showing respect is Cassandra, and only because the Seeker was higher on the food chain at the time. By the end of Trespasser, the Inquisitor either quits or defers to the Divine, and is thus of no more use to her. Funny, for a woman whose greatest fear is irreverence, she has no problem hoisting it on everyone else  . One last thing; given your championing of Elves (even if your versions in no way match Dragon Age ones), I'm surprised you gloss over how often Vivienne openly mocks Elvhenan culture  .
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Post by Cantina on Nov 19, 2016 10:01:39 GMT
Seriously? Dredging up an old quote long after I've lost interest? Wow N7, you must be really bored  . Nice song, don't know what it has to do with the topic at hand. Also, anyone else creeped out by a father and daughters R&B/gospel group producing a sex song ? Anyway, I suppose I should have responded to your initial question: Where are you going with this? Can you name any partnership Vivienne has ever entered, whether friends, lovers, professional, or political, that was not an extension of her love of The Game? If not to supplant her current allies, to at least advance her own position? Hell, even The First Enchantress' quarters at Skyhold reflect this; always eyeing the Herald of Andraste's throne, yet simultaneously "above" it  . The Inquisitor is too much of a wildcard for her to properly control, so becoming romantic partners is not beneficial to her. The Iron Lady's own words, remember? The only person I've seen Vivienne showing respect is Cassandra, and only because the Seeker was higher on the food chain at the time. By the end of Trespasser, the Inquisitor either quits or defers to the Divine, and is thus of no more use to her. Funny, for a woman whose greatest fear is irreverence, she has no problem hoisting it on everyone else  . One last thing; given your championing of Elves (even if your versions in no way match Dragon Age ones), I'm surprised you gloss over how often Vivienne openly mocks Elvhenan culture  . Oh and lets toss in the fact Vivienne thinks she knows more about Dalish culture then your Dalish does.
Sodding bitch.
<kicks Vivienne out a window>
I feel better. Not great since she didn't splatter when she hit the ground, but better.

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Post by Zikade on Nov 19, 2016 16:32:47 GMT
I like Vivienne although my characters constantly butt heads with her. I disagree with her stance on mages and dislike how Bioware seems to use her for giving all these pro-Circle statements which just ring false to me. "Oh Circles are permissive. In fact most of them let you live outside of them", Viv says and I'm like: "Wow, that's totally NOT what I've seen and heard so far." Though I guess it's because she's in a privileged position when compared to most mages. The Circle system serves her well and she intends to take full advantage of it.
Still, despite all this, I like her as a character. I don't have to always agree with a character in order to like them (heck, I often love villains) and I like it that the game has companions who are confident and who may openly challenge you with their views.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 19, 2016 17:09:08 GMT
I like Vivienne although my characters constantly butt heads with her. I disagree with her stance on mages and dislike how Bioware seems to use her for giving all these pro-Circle statements which just ring false to me. "Oh Circles are permissive. In fact most of them let you live outside of them", Viv says and I'm like: "Wow, that's totally NOT what I've seen and heard so far." Though I guess it's because she's in a privileged position when compared to most mages. The Circle system serves her well and she intends to take full advantage of it. Still, despite all this, I like her as a character. I don't have to always agree with a character in order to like them (heck, I often love villains) and I like it that the game has companions who are confident and who may openly challenge you with their views. She's a pretty example to a good written obnoxious character with strongly questionable morals and bad manners. Yes, as a villain. I can like villain as well, but not Vivienne kind. I prefer Loghain, and Meredith for example. They are both much more likeable. The Inquisition's mage's story ignore the whole experience so far... the Mages are happier in the Circle than freely (as the majority of people prefer the prison instead the freedom, it is natural!), "decent lady" presented pro-mage monster , foolish presented rebel mages...
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 21, 2016 9:56:29 GMT
Seriously? Dredging up an old quote long after I've lost interest? Wow N7, you must be really bored  . Nice song, don't know what it has to do with the topic at hand. Also, anyone else creeped out by a father and daughters R&B/gospel group producing a sex song ? Anyway, I suppose I should have responded to your initial question: Where are you going with this? Can you name any partnership Vivienne has ever entered, whether friends, lovers, professional, or political, that was not an extension of her love of The Game? If not to supplant her current allies, to at least advance her own position? Hell, even The First Enchantress' quarters at Skyhold reflect this; always eyeing the Herald of Andraste's throne, yet simultaneously "above" it  . The Inquisitor is too much of a wildcard for her to properly control, so becoming romantic partners is not beneficial to her. The Iron Lady's own words, remember? The only person I've seen Vivienne showing respect is Cassandra, and only because the Seeker was higher on the food chain at the time. By the end of Trespasser, the Inquisitor either quits or defers to the Divine, and is thus of no more use to her. Funny, for a woman whose greatest fear is irreverence, she has no problem hoisting it on everyone else  . One last thing; given your championing of Elves (even if your versions in no way match Dragon Age ones), I'm surprised you gloss over how often Vivienne openly mocks Elvhenan culture  . Hey! That's one of the classic R&B love songs!!! You were jamming!! Admit it.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 26, 2016 19:05:20 GMT
I like Vivienne although my characters constantly butt heads with her. I disagree with her stance on mages and dislike how Bioware seems to use her for giving all these pro-Circle statements which just ring false to me. "Oh Circles are permissive. In fact most of them let you live outside of them", Viv says and I'm like: "Wow, that's totally NOT what I've seen and heard so far." Though I guess it's because she's in a privileged position when compared to most mages. The Circle system serves her well and she intends to take full advantage of it. Still, despite all this, I like her as a character. I don't have to always agree with a character in order to like them (heck, I often love villains) and I like it that the game has companions who are confident and who may openly challenge you with their views. To be honest, we saw as players two examples of Circles: Ferelden and Kirkwall: Ferelden was extremly liberal, considering, that they allowed Wynne to go with a complete stranger or a known troublemaker (if you play the mage origin) without a supporting templar - and that after the Circle was overrun by demons. On the other hand, you have Kirkwall, extrem and restricted towards mages. I guess, it depends, on where you grow up as a mage - Viv probably got just lucky. And I agree, Viv is a great character Cantina Morrigan does exactly the same thing in a way more annoying way - and no one is blaming her. I even installed a mod to shut her up about elven lore, because I found it a bit disturbing, how she acts around a dalish inquisitor. Bottomline: I like Viv and I agree mostly with her view about magic - even as a mage. I have three mage playthroughs at the moment: one human and two elves. The elves come from a culture, where their clan would stop them, if they become abominations, the human lived in a Circle until recently - I'm pretty sure, they know the dangers of magic. You don't have to be an extremist like Meredith, but you should be careful. Although they all sided with the mages in Inquisition, they all agree with Viv (and Cassandra), that the mages have to proof, they can handle their news freedom.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 26, 2016 19:18:12 GMT
To be honest, we saw as players two examples of Circles: Ferelden and Kirkwall: Ferelden was extremly liberal, considering, that they allowed Wynne to go with a complete stranger or a known troublemaker (if you play the mage origin) without a supporting templar - and that after the Circle was overrun by demons. On the other hand, you have Kirkwall, extrem and restricted towards mages. I guess, it depends, on where you grow up as a mage - Viv probably got just lucky. And I agree, Viv is a great character Cantina Morrigan does exactly the same thing in a way more annoying way - and no one is blaming her. I even installed a mod to shut her up about elven lore, because I found it a bit disturbing, how she acts around a dalish inquisitor. Bottomline: I like Viv and I agree mostly with her view about magic - even as a mage. I have three mage playthroughs at the moment: one human and two elves. The elves come from a culture, where their clan would stop them, if they become abominations, the human lived in a Circle until recently - I'm pretty sure, they know the dangers of magic. You don't have to be an extremist like Meredith, but you should be careful. Although they all sided with the mages in Inquisition, they all agree with Viv (and Cassandra), that the mages have to proof, they can handle their news freedom. Haha: extremely liberal! (I never heard before, but good, I really like it!) Interesting wording in relation to a prison where the prisoners are innocent people. The Warden is not a trouble maker, he did what s/he did, because the First Enchanter asked him/her. Ofc s/he can be "trouble maker", if he want to be free, and willingly help to Jowan. But I can not call "trouble maker" someone who want to be free. And don't forget, what Wynne must to suffer for her "freedom". There is a difference between the obligation of proof and the life imprisonment.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 26, 2016 20:55:17 GMT
Haha: extremely liberal! (I never heard before, but good, I really like it!) Interesting wording in relation to a prison where the prisoners are innocent people. The Warden is not a trouble maker, he did what s/he did, because the First Enchanter asked him/her. Ofc s/he can be "trouble maker", if he want to be free, and willingly help to Jowan. But I can not call "trouble maker" someone who want to be free. And don't forget, what Wynne must to suffer for her "freedom". There is a difference between the obligation of proof and the life imprisonment. Trouble maker in the eye of the authority of course (in that case Irving and Greagoir) - although I think, most successful adventurers should have at least a bit of a trouble maker in them I know, you are a big fan of mage freedom and to a degree, I agree with you. I even count Anders among my favorite characters, despite his actions, but I can understand, that Varric only sends him bronto dung as winterends gifts nowadays, I would probably do the same. But I still think, magic user in Thedas should be controlled - I personally prefer the Dalish system - let the mages live among the rest of the clan, but be prepared to step in, if things go south.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 26, 2016 21:13:54 GMT
Haha: extremely liberal! (I never heard before, but good, I really like it!) Interesting wording in relation to a prison where the prisoners are innocent people. The Warden is not a trouble maker, he did what s/he did, because the First Enchanter asked him/her. Ofc s/he can be "trouble maker", if he want to be free, and willingly help to Jowan. But I can not call "trouble maker" someone who want to be free. And don't forget, what Wynne must to suffer for her "freedom". There is a difference between the obligation of proof and the life imprisonment. Trouble maker in the eye of the authority of course (in that case Irving and Greagoir) - although I think, most successful adventurers should have at least a bit of a trouble maker in them I know, you are a big fan of mage freedom and to a degree, I agree with you. I even count Anders among my favorite characters, despite his actions, but I can understand, that Varric only sends him bronto dung as winterends gifts nowadays, I would probably do the same. But I still think, magic user in Thedas should be controlled - I personally prefer the Dalish system - let the mages live among the rest of the clan, but be prepared to step in, if things go south. Ofc, I can understand Varric's position, he really liked to live in Kirkwall, and hated to leave Kirkwall. Many variety of methods have the dalish, they depend on the clan. (I mean: Bioware not very consistent in this issue.) Schools, registration, effective police service. Less dangerous than the Circle system, which Vivienne also insists. She is very narrow minded character.
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Post by Zikade on Nov 27, 2016 15:46:42 GMT
I like Vivienne although my characters constantly butt heads with her. I disagree with her stance on mages and dislike how Bioware seems to use her for giving all these pro-Circle statements which just ring false to me. "Oh Circles are permissive. In fact most of them let you live outside of them", Viv says and I'm like: "Wow, that's totally NOT what I've seen and heard so far." Though I guess it's because she's in a privileged position when compared to most mages. The Circle system serves her well and she intends to take full advantage of it. Still, despite all this, I like her as a character. I don't have to always agree with a character in order to like them (heck, I often love villains) and I like it that the game has companions who are confident and who may openly challenge you with their views. To be honest, we saw as players two examples of Circles: Ferelden and Kirkwall: Ferelden was extremly liberal, considering, that they allowed Wynne to go with a complete stranger or a known troublemaker (if you play the mage origin) without a supporting templar - and that after the Circle was overrun by demons. On the other hand, you have Kirkwall, extrem and restricted towards mages. I guess, it depends, on where you grow up as a mage - Viv probably got just lucky. And I agree, Viv is a great character [...] I also take the lore like codexes, books and comics to consideration. Coupled with the in-game experience, they do not paint a pretty picture. Yes, some Circles are better off than others but I don't like how Viv states a generalization as a fact and claims most Circles are lenient. Really goes against pre-established information. Also, doesn't change my opinion that, in their current form the way Circles work is rotten and allows way too many abuses of power. Mages get the worst of it of course but even Templars suffer some (like getting hooked on Lyrium). Viv is still a great character though
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 28, 2016 21:17:40 GMT
When I saw Vivienne for the first time I was happy like "Yes! Finally!" I was really trying to start a relationship but she laughed and said no because of the Duke which it was disappointing. I was really looking forward to it......
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Post by Lulupab on Dec 29, 2016 17:41:10 GMT
I can tolerate Sera, so Vivienne is a breeze in comparison. The only problem I have with her is her writer. Because of her, your inquisitor is turned into a fool when talking with her just to make her look like a badass. Same goes for her magic power, she shows a a charade of it. Both Solas and Dorian are more witty and badass than her when it actually counts (without writers helping them by turning people around them into fools) and have shown a lot more reliable magical might.
It was always clear she wanted to use the Inquisition to her advantage, and my attitude towards it was "fine, but I will use you too". Taking her to the ball as a mage for example gives you credit in the eyes of Orlesian nobility. For example as human mage, you don't actually lose favor if you have Vivienne with you and start the same as Human Rogue/Warrior.
Another issue I don't like with Vivienne is her irrelevancy in Descent and Jaws and Hakkon DLCs. She has nothing memorable to say in these two DLCs in oppose to other companions, specially the other two mages.
I'm voting indifferent because most of my issue is with how she is written, not her personality.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 21:36:00 GMT
I feel like Vivienne gives me opinion bipolar disorder. It really varies based on what kind of character I'm playing as. Over all she has some really great moments, but occasionally I just don't recruit her at all, because I just need a break from her preaching and superiority complex. I'd love to see her again in a situation where she's not trying to lecture everyone on the danger of magic, and just more jokes about how horrible everyone's fashion is maybe?
Over all I voted dislike, but I want to love her! I really do, but I just can't.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 23:48:04 GMT
I can tolerate Sera, so Vivienne is a breeze in comparison. The only problem I have with her is her writer. B ecause of her, your inquisitor is turned into a fool when talking with her just to make her look like a badass. Same goes for her magic power, she shows a a charade of it. Both Solas and Dorian are more witty and badass than her when it actually counts (without writers helping them by turning people around them into fools) and have shown a lot more reliable magical might. It was always clear she wanted to use the Inquisition to her advantage, and my attitude towards it was "fine, but I will use you too". Taking her to the ball as a mage for example gives you credit in the eyes of Orlesian nobility. For example as human mage, you don't actually lose favor if you have Vivienne with you and start the same as Human Rogue/Warrior. Another issue I don't like with Vivienne is her irrelevancy in Descent and Jaws and Hakkon DLCs. She has nothing memorable to say in these two DLCs in oppose to other companions, specially the other two mages. I'm voting indifferent because most of my issue is with how she is written, not her personality. That's the main reason why I hate her too. God I hate it when the writers do that.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 12, 2017 20:57:17 GMT
I can tolerate Sera, so Vivienne is a breeze in comparison. The only problem I have with her is her writer. B ecause of her, your inquisitor is turned into a fool when talking with her just to make her look like a badass. Same goes for her magic power, she shows a a charade of it. Both Solas and Dorian are more witty and badass than her when it actually counts (without writers helping them by turning people around them into fools) and have shown a lot more reliable magical might. It was always clear she wanted to use the Inquisition to her advantage, and my attitude towards it was "fine, but I will use you too". Taking her to the ball as a mage for example gives you credit in the eyes of Orlesian nobility. For example as human mage, you don't actually lose favor if you have Vivienne with you and start the same as Human Rogue/Warrior. Another issue I don't like with Vivienne is her irrelevancy in Descent and Jaws and Hakkon DLCs. She has nothing memorable to say in these two DLCs in oppose to other companions, specially the other two mages. I'm voting indifferent because most of my issue is with how she is written, not her personality. That's the main reason why I hate her too. God I hate it when the writers do that. Right?! Most other companions you can either kick out, verbally assault or even just plain punch in the face (even with the companions that are required to stay). But not Vivienne. They make it seem like its impossible to make a jab at her--physically or politically. Even though I know for certain that I can if I were so inclined.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 22:07:14 GMT
That's the main reason why I hate her too. God I hate it when the writers do that. Right?! Most other companions you can either kick out, verbally assault or even just plain punch in the face (even with the companions that are required to stay). But not Vivienne. They make it seem like its impossible to make a jab at her--physically or politically. Even though I know for certain that I can if I were so inclined. They wanted to make her seem like some master game player and resorted to castrating the protag to do this. That is not good writing. You should not make one character look terrible just to make another look superior. That is shit writing. If she was put in better hands that allowed the protag to at least debate and get on an equal footing with her then she would be so much better. Her, Sera, and Blackwall's writing leave much to be desired.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 12, 2017 22:35:22 GMT
Right?! Most other companions you can either kick out, verbally assault or even just plain punch in the face (even with the companions that are required to stay). But not Vivienne. They make it seem like its impossible to make a jab at her--physically or politically. Even though I know for certain that I can if I were so inclined. They wanted to make her seem like some master game player and resorted to castrating the protag to do this. That is not good writing. You should not make one character look terrible just to make another look superior. That is shit writing. If she was put in better hands that allowed the protag to at least debate and get on an equal footing with her then she would be so much better. Her, Sera, and Blackwall's writing leave much to be desired. Her character is well written, but there no interaction. Probably because they wanted to present, that Vivienne have prestige, respect, but they failed: the character just shows (I note: very well) a woman, who want to be important, have manipulation skills and such behavior, which –according her–, seems elegant, but only irritating or somewhere petty/childish (furniture issues). I feel sorry for her: she is damaged by Circle. by the Harrowing. This is, why I said: she's character is well written. She's clever: a mage, not a noble, but seems the nobles accepted her. But still. She's a mage, and want to be noble, and for the political power (or because of her paranoia) she capable to betray what she is. Maybe I'm wrong. She's well written because many people see him different. I like the divisive characters. So the character is well written in some ways, but seems forced attempt to show the Inquisitor (and other characters) beside her as some poor stupid persons.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 23:02:16 GMT
They wanted to make her seem like some master game player and resorted to castrating the protag to do this. That is not good writing. You should not make one character look terrible just to make another look superior. That is shit writing. If she was put in better hands that allowed the protag to at least debate and get on an equal footing with her then she would be so much better. Her, Sera, and Blackwall's writing leave much to be desired. Her character is well written, but there no interaction. Probably because they wanted to present, that Vivienne have prestige, respect, but they failed: the character just shows (I note: very well) a woman, who want to be important, have manipulation skills and such behavior, which –according her–, seems elegant, but only irritating or somewhere petty/childish (furniture issues). I feel sorry for her: she is damaged by Circle. by the Harrowing. This is, why I said: she's character is well written. She's clever: a mage, not a noble, but seems the nobles accepted her. But still. She's a mage, and want to be noble, and for the political power she capable to betray what she is. Maybe I'm wrong. Well written but poorly executed? Vivi is a great idea of a character, but if you can't properly executed then its poor writing. Kind of reminds me of what a Mary Sue fanfiction writer does, making Mary look better by lowering the abilities of others around her so she'll look good in comparison. She has the foundation for a good character, but to me it comes down to how they deal with the other elements of their story ( other characters, ect) that defines weather or not its well written. Also, who knows, she might have turned out like she is even if she wasn't a mage. Nature over nurture.
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Post by javeart on Jan 12, 2017 23:29:21 GMT
I don't remember feeling like my dialogue choices were dumbed down to make her look smarter, but I don't need that to not like her  And the problem it's not even that I hate the character and what she represents, that I do, because don't think that's a bad thing. What is bad thing for me is that I didn't find her fun to hate, nor I enjoyed her banter much either, not even with the characters I love. Her story with the duque left me cold and she doesn't have a single dialogue that caused me a big impression, one way or another, and if she said anything funny at some point I don't even remember it. I feel like she's a very uninteresting example of certain type of person, a type of person that I could never have liked but that could still become a character that I love, the way I love Morrigan, which I despise, but I still take with me a lot because I like hearing her talk to other companions and advise me all the time to do evil things  simply because I think she's a very interesting character and I love hating her. I don't know if I'd say that she's poorly written, I don't think so. I have a great opinion of Kirby's writting, and I love her other characters, maybe I just don't get what she was trying to do with Vivienne :/
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Post by Catilina on Jan 12, 2017 23:35:59 GMT
Her character is well written, but there no interaction. Probably because they wanted to present, that Vivienne have prestige, respect, but they failed: the character just shows (I note: very well) a woman, who want to be important, have manipulation skills and such behavior, which –according her–, seems elegant, but only irritating or somewhere petty/childish (furniture issues). I feel sorry for her: she is damaged by Circle. by the Harrowing. This is, why I said: she's character is well written. She's clever: a mage, not a noble, but seems the nobles accepted her. But still. She's a mage, and want to be noble, and for the political power she capable to betray what she is. Maybe I'm wrong. Well written but poorly executed? Vivi is a great idea of a character, but if you can't properly executed then its poor writing. Kind of reminds me of what a Mary Sue fanfiction writer does, making Mary look better by lowering the abilities of others around her so she'll look good in comparison. She has the foundation for a good character, but to me it comes down to how they deal with the other elements of their story ( other characters, ect) that defines weather or not its well written. Also, who knows, she might have turned out like she is even if she wasn't a mage. Nature over nurture. Not Vivi! Enchanter Vivienne, Court Mage to the Empire of Orlais, or Madame de Fer. Not, "Viv."
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