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Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2021 22:14:20 GMT
Oh joy, we're going to be forced to be some sellsword who does anything for money. Oh come on, 90% of all RPG's start with the protagonist doing odd jobs and menial tasks to level and explore the world. We will be able to choose which quests to pursue, so you're not going to be forced to do *anything* for money. Contrary to popular stereotypes about mercenaries, it is possible to be a blue collar professional and still have morals and ethics. Unless you're one of those people that just *have* to play as the Chosen One of an Elite Order of Heroes... And we have yet to see any of those kinds of mercenaries in Dragon Age. So I'm not very optimistic. I'm not against the whole odd jobs and menial tasks, after al I'm one of the apparent minority who actually liked how even our big protagonists like Inky still helped with that, though I do doubt we won't be forced to do anything.
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22,991
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2021 22:15:45 GMT
The problem is we don't get to pick and choose. Bioware will be doing that for us, then forcing their choices on us. Wouldn’t that be a problem regardless of the set up for our character? This a video game with limits to its programming, not a tabletop game like D&D where you can pretty much do anything. There’s always gonna be some element of railroading and limits to the choices we can make. True, though usually in those situations we had other options. If mercenary/Lord of Fortune/etc is the only option for backstory however, like your idea suggested, we don't get that.
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September 2016
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 17, 2021 22:52:28 GMT
Wouldn’t that be a problem regardless of the set up for our character? This a video game with limits to its programming, not a tabletop game like D&D where you can pretty much do anything. There’s always gonna be some element of railroading and limits to the choices we can make. True, though usually in those situations we had other options. If mercenary/Lord of Fortune/etc is the only option for backstory however, like your idea suggested, we don't get that. Can we please get past the tired notion that only amoral, greedy people would become Lords of Fortune? Off the top of my head, I can think of several options that have nothing to do with simply enriching one's self: -Lack of realistic and/or legal opportunities where they live. -Desperate to lift themselves and/or their families out of poverty. Bonus points if they need expensive medicines for loved ones. -Fund worthy causes that don't get enough attention. -Back revolutions against oppressive regimes, and help sustain stability and independence afterwards. -Help reclaim lost culture. -A genuine love of adventure and discovery. Anyone of these could be answers we could give when asked why we became a potential Lord of Fortune. Right alongside "I really like money" lol.
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colfoley
19,294
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Post by colfoley on Dec 18, 2021 0:34:34 GMT
I would also point out that while criminals work within the overarching banner of the LoF and some of their members do take on criminal contracts that I don't get the sense that was their main objective. They are a guild of adventurers and treasure seekers, the Nathan Drake's or Indianna Jones's of Thedas.
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1,233
garrusfan1
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Aug 30, 2016 16:55:35 GMT
August 2016
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 18, 2021 0:40:09 GMT
True, though usually in those situations we had other options. If mercenary/Lord of Fortune/etc is the only option for backstory however, like your idea suggested, we don't get that. Can we please get past the tired notion that only amoral, greedy people would become Lords of Fortune? Off the top of my head, I can think of several options that have nothing to do with simply enriching one's self: -Lack of realistic and/or legal opportunities where they live. -Desperate to lift themselves and/or their families out of poverty. Bonus points if they need expensive medicines for loved ones. -Fund worthy causes that don't get enough attention. -Back revolutions against oppressive regimes, and help sustain stability and independence afterwards. -Help reclaim lost culture. -A genuine love of adventure and discovery. Anyone of these could be answers we could give when asked why we became a potential Lord of Fortune. Right alongside "I really like money" lol. I don't have a link but some guy on youtube answered the question on "why someone would become a mercenary". He was talking around the time of the thirty years war but it was very very different then today's reasons. Yes their was money but some saw it as the only way they could get out of the hierarchy where they lived
Some saw it as an adventure since most people throughout history never went very far from the place they were born in
A sense of belonging as these men became your family
Some during the thirty years war saw it as a way to stay safe actually as if you weren't part of a large strong group chances were you were gonna be attacked and not be able to defend yourself. The thirty years war was arguably one of the worst wars in history. A death toll in the eight million mark when the most advanced weapon was a musket is pretty impressive. A bit of history lesson sorry about that.
The modern mercenary is very different then the mercenaries of the past. Now a days mercenary groups only take people who have already served in some military or policeforce. throughout history most mercenary groups took in regular people and trained them if they didn't have enough veterans already. Furthermore having a standing army like we do now is not something that has been done throughout most of history. It is incredibly expensive to do after all so why not pay mercenaries when you need them then pay people for years when they might never be used. You could go decades with no wars after all. So thinking about mercenaries through a modern lense is different then sometime in the midevil world which is what dragon age is supposed to be like to a degree.
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August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 18, 2021 7:54:17 GMT
True, though usually in those situations we had other options. If mercenary/Lord of Fortune/etc is the only option for backstory however, like your idea suggested, we don't get that. Can we please get past the tired notion that only amoral, greedy people would become Lords of Fortune? Until we have examples to the contrary, no. I would also point out that while criminals work within the overarching banner of the LoF and some of their members do take on criminal contracts that I don't get the sense that was their main objective. They are a guild of adventurers and treasure seekers, the Nathan Drake's or Indianna Jones's of Thedas. You know Nathan Drake and Indiana Jones are criminals right?
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 18, 2021 8:37:21 GMT
The problem is we don't get to pick and choose. Bioware will be doing that for us, then forcing their choices on us. here’s always gonna be some element of railroading and limits to the choices we can make. I don't seem to recall that we got any choice about being a Grey Warden but at least you could choose your race and origin background. With Hawke you got only one choice for your race and background and the option of mercenary or smuggler for profession when you got to Kirkwall. With Inquisition the choices for background were human noble with pro-Chantry family; Dalish elf whose Keeper sent you to spy on the Conclave; Dwarf working for the Carta or Vashoth mercenary but you are then forced to become a member of the Inquisition and have a religious title thrust upon you, no matter how much you object. With Mass Effect and the single protagonist throughout, we had no choice about becoming a N7, 3 early backgrounds and 2 career scenarios. So the choices have always been limited by virtue of the fact that as Hero11n7 says, it is a computer game and they have to have a basis for the programming. The less set character aspects, the more bland the character becomes with no grounding in the world or potential for different reactions and plot lines based on the one you select. And we have yet to see any of those kinds of mercenaries in Dragon Age. So I'm not very optimistic. Both Hawke and the Vashoth Inquisitor can start out as a mercenary. Whilst Hawke has to make a morally dubious choice to do this, there is no suggestion that the Vashoth has not been able to pick and choose what they do. A mercenary does not have to take a job, although if they are part of a larger mercenary group it may be forced upon them, and it might be wise to check the fine print of any assignment they take on. A freelance mercenary though can have a strict moral compass and be known for the fact that there are certain jobs they just won't do. Incidentally, correct me if I am wrong, but weren't Ser Aaron and Vaea originally just freelance mercenaries? Otherwise, how exactly did they earn a living? A mercenary is simply someone who gets paid for doing a job. From that viewpoint most people are mercenaries. In fact it was the entire basis of the Chanter's Board in DA2 and DAO and the other contacts in DAO, like the Mages Collective, and the Mage Underground in DA2. You don't have to take these jobs but if you do you are doing so as a mercenary, even if you profess to be doing it out of the goodness of your heart. It may be that the trade-off in DA4 is that by giving us a limited choice of profession, they are able to be more flexible with race or early background. Or they could do as they did for earlier games and you have a fixed background depending on your race, including your starting profession but that changes fairly quickly after that.
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185
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31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 18, 2021 8:57:10 GMT
The problem is we don't get to pick and choose. Bioware will be doing that for us, then forcing their choices on us. here’s always gonna be some element of railroading and limits to the choices we can make. I don't seem to recall that we got any choice about being a Grey Warden but at least you could choose your race and origin background. With Hawke you got only one choice for your race and background and the option of mercenary or smuggler for profession when you got to Kirkwall. With Inquisition the choices for background were human noble with pro-Chantry family; Dalish elf whose Keeper sent you to spy on the Conclave; Dwarf working for the Carta or Vashoth mercenary but you are then forced to become a member of the Inquisition and have a religious title thrust upon you, no matter how much you object. With Mass Effect and the single protagonist throughout, we had no choice about becoming a N7, 3 early backgrounds and 2 career scenarios. So the choices have always been limited by virtue of the fact that as Hero11n7 says, it is a computer game and they have to have a basis for the programming. The less set character aspects, the more bland the character becomes with no grounding in the world or potential for different reactions and plot lines based on the one you select. And we have yet to see any of those kinds of mercenaries in Dragon Age. So I'm not very optimistic. Both Hawke and the Vashoth Inquisitor can start out as a mercenary. Whilst Hawke has to make a morally dubious choice to do this, there is no suggestion that the Vashoth has not been able to pick and choose what they do. A mercenary does not have to take a job, although if they are part of a larger mercenary group it may be forced upon them, and it might be wise to check the fine print of any assignment they take on. A freelance mercenary though can have a strict moral compass and be known for the fact that there are certain jobs they just won't do. Incidentally, correct me if I am wrong, but weren't Ser Aaron and Vaea originally just freelance mercenaries? Otherwise, how exactly did they earn a living? A mercenary is simply someone who gets paid for doing a job. From that viewpoint most people are mercenaries. In fact it was the entire basis of the Chanter's Board in DA2 and DAO and the other contacts in DAO, like the Mages Collective, and the Mage Underground in DA2. You don't have to take these jobs but if you do you are doing so as a mercenary, even if you profess to be doing it out of the goodness of your heart. It may be that the trade-off in DA4 is that by giving us a limited choice of profession, they are able to be more flexible with race or early background. Or they could do as they did for earlier games and you have a fixed background depending on your race, including your starting profession but that changes fairly quickly after that. Completely disagree with the underlined in the top part. No, Aaron wasn't a mercenary. His way of earning money was through his storytelling. As for the others, Vaea is a thief, Hawke you already rested my case with, and many of Adaar's stories plus how their company acts fits what I said.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 18, 2021 9:30:53 GMT
No, Aaron wasn't a mercenary. His way of earning money was through his storytelling. So his entire life had been based on story telling? Also, why the squire? He is a knight and a warrior. I should imagine that at some point he earned a living by using his sword. May be he only did so for king and country. That is all very well if the king is a good one. That is my point. We tend to deride the term mercenary as though using your skills for money for a job you have chosen to take is bad but serving in the army of a despot out of loyalty to the state is good. A mercenary doesn't have to be an unscrupulous killer. They may be poorer as a result but it is possible to be a moral mercenary. I think that is the whole basis for the Seven Samaurai/Magnificent Seven plot. A village is under constant threat of bandits who exploit them; they pool their money to hire mercenaries to protect them and the majority of the mercenaries end up dying in order to give those villagers a better life. Would your PC refuse to be part of that group of mercenaries? A merchant has lost multiple caravans to bandits. He hires some mercenaries to protect his caravan. Now his caravans are safe because the bandits do not dare attack them. No one has died but a merchant has been able to maintain his livelihood and you have been paid for the service. That is the staple fare of mercenaries. What is bad about that? As for the others, Vaea is a thief, Which is better than a mercenary because.....? A thief is essentially someone who steals things. They are depriving another person of their possessions. A good thief can justify this, as Vaea does, by saying they only steal from richer people and they do it to help the poorer ones but it is still theft. In fact in the first series Vaea also steals because Charter blackmails her, threatening to reveal the fact she is a thief if she doesn't do what Charter asks. This might be stealing for the Inquisition and it might ultimately have good results, but her reason for stealing was to protect herself from the accusation, not any noble ideals. Bottom line a thief is a thief, just as a mercenary is a mercenary. You cannot deride one without doing the same for the other.
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185
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31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 18, 2021 9:51:17 GMT
No, Aaron wasn't a mercenary. His way of earning money was through his storytelling. So his entire life had been based on story telling? Also, why the squire? He is a knight and a warrior. I should imagine that at some point he earned a living by using his sword. May be he only did so for king and country. That is all very well if the king is a good one. That is my point. We tend to deride the term mercenary as though using your skills for money for a job you have chosen to take is bad but serving in the army of a despot out of loyalty to the state is good. A mercenary doesn't have to be an unscrupulous killer. They may be poorer as a result but it is possible to be a moral mercenary. I think that is the whole basis for the Seven Samaurai/Magnificent Seven plot. A village is under constant threat of bandits who exploit them; they pool their money to hire mercenaries to protect them and the majority of the mercenaries end up dying in order to give those villagers a better life. Would your PC refuse to be part of that group of mercenaries? A merchant has lost multiple caravans to bandits. He hires some mercenaries to protect his caravan. Now his caravans are safe because the bandits do not dare attack them. No one has died but a merchant has been able to maintain his livelihood and you have been paid for the service. That is the staple fare of mercenaries. What is bad about that? As for the others, Vaea is a thief, Which is better than a mercenary because.....? A thief is essentially someone who steals things. They are depriving another person of their possessions. A good thief can justify this, as Vaea does, by saying they only steal from richer people and they do it to help the poorer ones but it is still theft. In fact in the first series Vaea also steals because Charter blackmails her, threatening to reveal the fact she is a thief if she doesn't do what Charter asks. This might be stealing for the Inquisition and it might ultimately have good results, but her reason for stealing was to protect herself from the accusation, not any noble ideals. Bottom line a thief is a thief, just as a mercenary is a mercenary. You cannot deride one without doing the same for the other. At that point, yeah. He was not interested in fighting at the point you were talking about. I don’t see many saying blindly following a despot or state is good. Quite the opposite, more and more the “just following orders” defense fails. With your Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven example, I’d offer to help without being paid for it at all, so not a mercenary act. Didn't say being a thief was better than a mercenary. That was meant to be read as a negative.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 18, 2021 9:51:47 GMT
Completely disagree with the underlined in the top part. I meant bland in that you cannot tie in anything specifically to your character. It has to be wholly generic. So they give you multiple professions for you to choose from. That is great but apart from the odd line where people ask what you do, that is where it ends. They cannot possible tailor individual sub-plots based on that profession or have people recognise you based on that profession because it would take up far too much programming time and resources to do so. Even with the limited choices in DAI, much of the time the differences between us were largely in War Table missions tailored to our background or a few lines of dialogue. If they had expanded that choice further, those individual elements would necessarily have reduced. In DAO, your background choices were limited depending on the race we chose and we had only one career path, a Grey Warden, just as in DAI you had only one career path, that of Inquisitor. I must admit one of the things I preferred about DA2 was that for the majority of the game I was Hawke and not Warden, Herald or Inquisitor and whilst in Act 3 people who were not friends referred to me as Champion, I was still Hawke to my companions. Unfortunately, I do not see how they can incorporate that more personal touch without narrowing our choice of starting character.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 18, 2021 10:04:46 GMT
With your Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven example, I’d offer to help without being paid for it at all, so not a mercenary act. That is noble and I would do the same if I had the luxury not to be paid. However, how does that person live? Now actually there was a group of people in Ferelden who did embody that ideal, the Ash Warriors. " They are pious mercenaries who work for no pay, instead working for whatever cause they deem just. T hey are so admired by common Fereldans that wherever they go, they are treated as heroes." (Presumably getting board and lodging as a result). Note they are still called mercenaries but working for a different sort of payment. Many of them started off as criminals who became an Ash Warrior as a way of atoning for their former crimes. They do have a loyalty to the monarch of Ferelden but, I imagine, only so long as the monarch upholds their ideals. For example, I do not think the Ash Warriors showed any loyalty to the Orlesian usurper. They also have their own version of the Andrastrian faith, rejecting the Orlesian Chantry and its Chant of Light, which makes sense since I think their beliefs are probably more in-line with what existed prior to Drakon "simplifying" it by destroying any alternatives to his own. It is a pity they didn't identify Ser Aaron as an Ash Warrior, although for that he would have needed his own mabari. A great many of them would have died at the Battle of Ostagar, so it would have fitted his story. However, for some reason the Ash Warriors completely dropped out of the picture after the beginning of DAO, were revived by some codices attached to items in DA2 item packs, and then totally forgotten again. After all, you would think an Ash Warrior would have been encountered travelling around trying to help the refugees or stepping in to aid Crestwood, etc, so maybe they did all die at Ostagar. I would have loved to have played an Ash Warrior but I can't see that happening now. EDIT: Actually that would have been a great background for the next game and they could totally justify their presence in the north by the fact they wanted to help the common folk who had been abandoned by their superiors to whatever threat was assailing them. I usually play a rogue or mage but I would definitely play a warrior if this was an option.
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Dec 12, 2024 16:23:49 GMT
2,033
ClarkKent
1,122
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
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Post by ClarkKent on Dec 18, 2021 14:22:13 GMT
I think a mercenary background could work, especially if we get the choice to roleplay on whether we want to be a cold calculating 'fuck you pay me' style mercenary or one that is more considerate with his charges. I always liked that in Witcher 3 you can choose to play a Geralt that will make a poor old lady part with her last coins for a job or a Geralt that is more lenient depending on the situation.
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1587
0
1,772
Walter Black
1,290
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 18, 2021 14:30:17 GMT
So his entire life had been based on story telling? Also, why the squire? He is a knight and a warrior. I should imagine that at some point he earned a living by using his sword. May be he only did so for king and country. That is all very well if the king is a good one. That is my point. We tend to deride the term mercenary as though using your skills for money for a job you have chosen to take is bad but serving in the army of a despot out of loyalty to the state is good. A mercenary doesn't have to be an unscrupulous killer. They may be poorer as a result but it is possible to be a moral mercenary. I think that is the whole basis for the Seven Samaurai/Magnificent Seven plot. A village is under constant threat of bandits who exploit them; they pool their money to hire mercenaries to protect them and the majority of the mercenaries end up dying in order to give those villagers a better life. Would your PC refuse to be part of that group of mercenaries? A merchant has lost multiple caravans to bandits. He hires some mercenaries to protect his caravan. Now his caravans are safe because the bandits do not dare attack them. No one has died but a merchant has been able to maintain his livelihood and you have been paid for the service. That is the staple fare of mercenaries. What is bad about that? Which is better than a mercenary because.....? A thief is essentially someone who steals things. They are depriving another person of their possessions. A good thief can justify this, as Vaea does, by saying they only steal from richer people and they do it to help the poorer ones but it is still theft. In fact in the first series Vaea also steals because Charter blackmails her, threatening to reveal the fact she is a thief if she doesn't do what Charter asks. This might be stealing for the Inquisition and it might ultimately have good results, but her reason for stealing was to protect herself from the accusation, not any noble ideals. Bottom line a thief is a thief, just as a mercenary is a mercenary. You cannot deride one without doing the same for the other. At that point, yeah. He was not interested in fighting at the point you were talking about. I don’t see many saying blindly following a despot or state is good. Quite the opposite, more and more the “just following orders” defense fails. With your Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven example, I’d offer to help without being paid for it at all, so not a mercenary act. Didn't say being a thief was better than a mercenary. That was meant to be read as a negative. So how exactly does your Ideal Hero survive? Food, shelter, medicine, and other amenities instead of cash still count as barter. Further, since "real heroes only do the right thing", police and soldiers, firefighters, medical professionals and teachers have no right to provide for themselves or families? They deserve to have their labor exploited, and shamed when they stand up for their rights and worth? Also, gotta love the dissonance in that one of your favorite characters Josephine, a rich noble entrepreneur, would not be able to help nearly as many people without being a rich noble entrepreneur.
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1033
0
Dec 12, 2024 11:35:41 GMT
37,529
colfoley
19,294
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Dec 18, 2021 18:43:05 GMT
At that point, yeah. He was not interested in fighting at the point you were talking about. I don’t see many saying blindly following a despot or state is good. Quite the opposite, more and more the “just following orders” defense fails. With your Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven example, I’d offer to help without being paid for it at all, so not a mercenary act. Didn't say being a thief was better than a mercenary. That was meant to be read as a negative. So how exactly does your Ideal Hero survive? Food, shelter, medicine, and other amenities instead of cash still count as barter. Further, since "real heroes only do the right thing", police and soldiers, firefighters, medical professionals and teachers have no right to provide for themselves or families? They deserve to have their labor exploited, and shamed when they stand up for their rights and worth? Also, gotta love the dissonance in that one of your favorite characters Josephine, a rich noble entrepreneur, would not be able to help nearly as many people without being a rich noble entrepreneur. Josie also hires an assassin guild to protect her ships. Also I'm with everyone else here especially these days. Good mercenaries. Bad mercenaries. All of which are things but that does not mean its inherently bad to earn a living as one either just like how it's not bad for soldiers to earn their living. After all the Inquisition was a mercenary organization.
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1587
0
1,772
Walter Black
1,290
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 18, 2021 19:20:32 GMT
So how exactly does your Ideal Hero survive? Food, shelter, medicine, and other amenities instead of cash still count as barter. Further, since "real heroes only do the right thing", police and soldiers, firefighters, medical professionals and teachers have no right to provide for themselves or families? They deserve to have their labor exploited, and shamed when they stand up for their rights and worth? Also, gotta love the dissonance in that one of your favorite characters Josephine, a rich noble entrepreneur, would not be able to help nearly as many people without being a rich noble entrepreneur. Josie also hires an assassin guild to protect her ships. Also I'm with everyone else here especially these days. Good mercenaries. Bad mercenaries. All of which are things but that does not mean its inherently bad to earn a living as one either just like how it's not bad for soldiers to earn their living. After all the Inquisition was a mercenary organization. I wonder if anyone will respond, "maybe YOUR Inquisition were mercenaries, but mine were humanitarian relief and religious missionaries!". Conveniently ignoring all off the unsanctioned, possibly vigilante military action we had to do. Or that every time the collection plate is passed, you are still helping to pay the clergy's salary.
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1033
0
Dec 12, 2024 11:35:41 GMT
37,529
colfoley
19,294
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Dec 18, 2021 19:36:29 GMT
Josie also hires an assassin guild to protect her ships. Also I'm with everyone else here especially these days. Good mercenaries. Bad mercenaries. All of which are things but that does not mean its inherently bad to earn a living as one either just like how it's not bad for soldiers to earn their living. After all the Inquisition was a mercenary organization. I wonder if anyone will respond, "maybe YOUR Inquisition were mercenaries, but mine were humanitarian relief and religious missionaries!". Conveniently ignoring all off the unsanctioned, possibly vigilante military action we had to do. Or that every time the collection plate is passed, you are still helping to pay the clergy's salary. plus to your point earlier all the WT missions usually netted us some kind of reward even if it wasn't money.
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inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 18, 2021 21:36:29 GMT
gervaise21 Thank you for actually having a discussion with me instead of what some of the others have tried to do. And thank you for providing evidence that proved me incorrect with the Ash Warriors. I appreciate it.
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inherit
1363
0
Dec 31, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
1,233
garrusfan1
1,826
Aug 30, 2016 16:55:35 GMT
August 2016
garrusfan1
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 18, 2021 22:33:25 GMT
With your Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven example, I’d offer to help without being paid for it at all, so not a mercenary act. That is noble and I would do the same if I had the luxury not to be paid. However, how does that person live? Now actually there was a group of people in Ferelden who did embody that ideal, the Ash Warriors. " They are pious mercenaries who work for no pay, instead working for whatever cause they deem just. T hey are so admired by common Fereldans that wherever they go, they are treated as heroes." (Presumably getting board and lodging as a result). Note they are still called mercenaries but working for a different sort of payment. Many of them started off as criminals who became an Ash Warrior as a way of atoning for their former crimes. They do have a loyalty to the monarch of Ferelden but, I imagine, only so long as the monarch upholds their ideals. For example, I do not think the Ash Warriors showed any loyalty to the Orlesian usurper. They also have their own version of the Andrastrian faith, rejecting the Orlesian Chantry and its Chant of Light, which makes sense since I think their beliefs are probably more in-line with what existed prior to Drakon "simplifying" it by destroying any alternatives to his own. It is a pity they didn't identify Ser Aaron as an Ash Warrior, although for that he would have needed his own mabari. A great many of them would have died at the Battle of Ostagar, so it would have fitted his story. However, for some reason the Ash Warriors completely dropped out of the picture after the beginning of DAO, were revived by some codices attached to items in DA2 item packs, and then totally forgotten again. After all, you would think an Ash Warrior would have been encountered travelling around trying to help the refugees or stepping in to aid Crestwood, etc, so maybe they did all die at Ostagar. I would have loved to have played an Ash Warrior but I can't see that happening now. EDIT: Actually that would have been a great background for the next game and they could totally justify their presence in the north by the fact they wanted to help the common folk who had been abandoned by their superiors to whatever threat was assailing them. I usually play a rogue or mage but I would definitely play a warrior if this was an option. This would be cool.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 23, 2021 20:35:25 GMT
Some during the thirty years war saw it as a way to stay safe actually as if you weren't part of a large strong group chances were you were gonna be attacked and not be able to defend yourself. The thirty years war was arguably one of the worst wars in history. A death toll in the eight million mark when the most advanced weapon was a musket is pretty impressive. A bit of history lesson sorry about that.
It is estimated that 20% of Germany's population died in that war. And better than 50% of some regions
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Dec 23, 2021 20:43:11 GMT
Both Hawke and the Vashoth Inquisitor can start out as a mercenary. Whilst Hawke has to make a morally dubious choice to do this, there is no suggestion that the Vashoth has not been able to pick and choose what they do. A mercenary does not have to take a job, although if they are part of a larger mercenary group it may be forced upon them, and it might be wise to check the fine print of any assignment they take on. A freelance mercenary though can have a strict moral compass and be known for the fact that there are certain jobs they just won't do. I believe most Vashoth are mercenaries because the only ones who have the ability and opportunity to escape the Qun are warriors. And consequently, fighting is the only real skill they have. So their options become limited to banditry or mercenary work.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 23, 2021 20:46:00 GMT
It could be possible that our new protagonist is some kind of mercenary. Just some anonymous sellsword (possibly from the south) who got swept up in important events because they just so happen to take a job that put them at the right place at the right time (not so different from Hawke). It might fit with the idea of our character being someone that people “wouldn’t see coming” since most mercenaries are written off as just hired muscle to be used as pawns in the grand schemes of “more important” people. Oh joy, we're going to be forced to be some sellsword who does anything for money. To be fair, we need SOME sort of justification as to why we have any degree of fighting skills going in. As long as we have the freedom to pick and choose our missioons (and not be stuck doing "anything for money" like Shepard working for TIM in ME2) I'd be okay with it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2021 8:03:45 GMT
As long as we have the freedom to pick and choose our missions (and not be stuck doing "anything for money" like Shepard working for TIM in ME2) I'd be okay with it. That was annoying after everything we learned about Cerberus in ME1 but they did seem to be the only organisation doing something effective against the Collectors. In fact a better analogy would be forcing us to work for any particular organisation, unless we had to option to reject them at a later date as we did with TIM. If they do decide to go with a fixed background, it is more likely to be that of treasure hunter mercenary, as in a Lord of Fortune, owing to the fact that they suddenly decided to introduce this group in Tevinter Nights when we had never heard of them previously. I'm hoping rather that belonging to a faction is something we will have a choice over and a background will be more generic than that. A lot depends on whether we are going to be able to play as different races or not. If we are then I think each background will be tailored to that race. Alternatively, as I've always maintained, we could start off as a slave in a noble house, which would fit every race (I'm sure that casteless dwarves can be slaves) and every class (mages can be slaves) and we progress from there. The choice of individual background would relate to how we became a slave in the first place.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Dec 24, 2021 14:30:15 GMT
Oh joy, we're going to be forced to be some sellsword who does anything for money. As long as we have the freedom to pick and choose our missioons (and not be stuck doing "anything for money" like Shepard working for TIM in ME2) I'd be okay with it. Cerberus is even worse, as there's not even money in it. It is just for sake of "'umanity 1st!!!1", (or "them bugz killin' humanz!!1"). As long as we have the freedom to pick and choose our missions (and not be stuck doing "anything for money" like Shepard working for TIM in ME2) I'd be okay with it. That was annoying after everything we learned about Cerberus in ME1 but they did seem to be the only organisation doing something effective against the Collectors. In fact a better analogy would be forcing us to work for any particular organisation, unless we had to option to reject them at a later date as we did with TIM. At the time we could reject TIM, the game was over. No options to reject his shenanigans leading into obvious traps earlier. As for the giving everyone else but the creator's pets an idiot ball... well, I hope Bioware doesn't do that in DA4.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 24, 2021 15:06:09 GMT
As long as we have the freedom to pick and choose our missioons (and not be stuck doing "anything for money" like Shepard working for TIM in ME2) I'd be okay with it. Cerberus is even worse, as there's not even money in it. It is just for sake of "'umanity 1st!!!1", (or "them bugz killin' humanz!!1"). That was annoying after everything we learned about Cerberus in ME1 but they did seem to be the only organisation doing something effective against the Collectors. In fact a better analogy would be forcing us to work for any particular organisation, unless we had to option to reject them at a later date as we did with TIM. At the time we could reject TIM, the game was over. No options to reject his shenanigans leading into obvious traps earlier. As for the giving everyone else but the creator's pets an idiot ball... well, I hope Bioware doesn't do that in DA4. As I've said many times before, this is the problem with mandatory characters and content; too many writers in love with their own creations, and wanting to railroad players into doing the same. Instead of giving us what we paid for, a damn ROLE PLAYING GAME.
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