inherit
57
0
1
32,678
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,131
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Mar 17, 2023 2:38:37 GMT
the point of being pantless-ness is to disturb people Reverting to topic, it's interesting quite how ME3's banshees would indeed meet the criteria of disturbing pantless-ness. It will be interesting to see if ME5 includes or skips 'body horror'.
|
|
inherit
1227
0
3,673
Phantom
2,661
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Mar 17, 2023 4:29:36 GMT
the point of being pantless-ness is to disturb people Reverting to topic, it's interesting quite how ME3's banshees would indeed meet the criteria of disturbing pantless-ness. It will be interesting to see if ME5 includes or skips 'body horror'. I know that the iconic Cerberus Phantom is a pain in the ass in ME3. I have an idea for a game that you are a Cerberus phantom that goes thru the Ranks of Cerberus before the Reaper War and Cerberus gets wipe out in the beginning and he is hunted by a Black Talon Wraith that is an ally of the Reapers. Side note: Black Talon Wraith has a lot of body horror elements to them. Downplaying them would be a deal breaker for me because they are supposed scare the shit of people given their body horror and violent gameplay
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
May 11, 2024 16:44:15 GMT
30,256
Hanako Ikezawa
22,360
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 17, 2023 4:32:44 GMT
the point of being pantless-ness is to disturb people Reverting to topic, it's interesting quite how ME3's banshees would indeed meet the criteria of disturbing pantless-ness. It will be interesting to see if ME5 includes or skips 'body horror'. Every ME game so far has had it, so I imagine ME5 will as well.
|
|
inherit
1227
0
3,673
Phantom
2,661
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Mar 17, 2023 4:43:23 GMT
Reverting to topic, it's interesting quite how ME3's banshees would indeed meet the criteria of disturbing pantless-ness. It will be interesting to see if ME5 includes or skips 'body horror'. Every ME game so far has had it, so I imagine ME5 will as well. Kett are a good source of body horror for MEA. So Hanako, if they go with MEA that exploring Kett's body horror and why they do it is a good potential for stories
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,295
themikefest
14,823
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Mar 17, 2023 11:54:05 GMT
Every ME game so far has had it, so I imagine ME5 will as well. Kett are a good source of body horror for MEA. So Hanako, if they go with MEA that exploring Kett's body horror and why they do it is a good potential for stories Why the kett do the exalting thing? One word. Reapers. How's that possible. Simple. However long ago, a capital ship was sent to Andromeda to study or whatever. As it entered the Heleus cluster it collided with a meteor, or something similar causing it to go off course. Because of the damage the reaper suffered, it could not correct it's course. It end's up crashing on some unknown planet where it has remained for however long. The Kett sent out explorers to study the Heleus cluster. They happened upon the reaper. Realizing they have an object with unknown technology, they decide to head back home to tell the boss kett. The boss kett send out a recovery unit to bring back this unknown object. With it back at Kett land, the kett over time become indoctrinated. The Archon is ordered to go the Heleus cluster to start exalting any species they find.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
May 12, 2024 21:51:52 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 17, 2023 13:03:09 GMT
I like the idea of the crucible being an emp to disable reaper shield's but a conventional fight would still, and possibly have the galaxy be harvested. Here's why? There has been about 20 000 cycles with each cycle having a new reaper. That's 20 000 capital ships. The destroyer's would be much more. Let's say 5 were built each cycle. That's 100 000 destroyers. They also have transport carriers and processing ships. What does the galaxy have? I would say the numbers are much lower. Reason is because no one knows how long the 50 000 years has been happening. That is up to Bioware. If there's to be any conventional anything, I would make the reaper numbers as low possible. How would the Iniitative have dealt with the kett when they don't have the firepower anywhere near what the kett have? Did the kett sit around waiting for the Initiative to figure out Meridian to deal with the kett? If that's the case, then it's a lame reason or whatever the reason might be. The kett remain a threat even after Meridan is in the Initiative's hand's. If I was the kett, I would attack the Nexus. What is the Initiative going to do? Nothing. Just like they did nothing when the kett took the Hyperion. For the Initiative to have any chance to get rid of the kett, they have to seek help from outside the cluster. The main character travels to whatever cluster, meets another species, help's said species enough for the species to come to the Initiative's aid. Have it similar to ME3. Shepard gather's help to deal with the reapers on Earth. As far as any reapers remaining being a threat? Here's an idea I had about that for ME4 You could have the Crucible EMP temporarily shut down the Reapers entirely. Make it so that the bulk of the Reaper forces arrayed over Earth are rendered completely vulnerable to attack for several key moments. As far back as ME 1 we've seen that it really only takes one frigate mounted railgun round to one-shot a dreadnought once their shields are down so the assembled armada of allied ships during that point of the game would make mincemeat out of any Reaper out in the open. After that, once the Reapers regain their senses they would be left reeling at the loss of so many capital ships as well as their defacto leader, Harbinger (since there wouldn't be a Catalyst master control program), they would opt to flee rather than stay and fight. Now it would be true that the Reapers would still massively outnumber the armadas of the combined galaxy but after being shown their own 'mortality' the cohesiveness of the Reaper invasion would be in shambles letting the races of the current cycle to continue riding the wave of their offensive and pushing them back further. Eventually the Reapers will regroup, but by that time the Milky Way would have rallied and that, coupled with their now crippled shields, would see them adopt a more strike and fade approach to warfare rather than just crubstomping everything thanks to their narrative 'godmode'. Spread such a conflict over the space of the entire galaxy, even with FTL, and 600 years is a very generous timeframe to see conventional fighting still ongoing. Indeed, the Reapers would likely go back to trying to influence and sabotage from the shadows like they were in ME 1&2 over direct confrontation; ironically being in the same position the Leviathans are in in ME 3. And the Khett I was referring to were the ones we face in ME:A not their entire empire. It's obvious that the Initiative has no real way of dealing with an established warlike, expansionist, interstellar empire; especially since they are operating under a mandate to not include any sort of weapons larger than a firearm and are operating out of a handful of colonies with, at most, a few city blocks of real estate and no real industrial infrastructure to speak of. No, to stand any real chance this 'bridge' between the two galaxies needs to happen as soon as the end credits finish rolling from ME:A to give these hippies any hope of surviving prolonged combat with the greater Khett empire. Maybe even have the Reapers approach the Khett for an alliance once the militaries of the Milky Way start showing up and pushing them back, and making a larger foothold in Andromeda.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,295
themikefest
14,823
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Mar 17, 2023 15:57:19 GMT
You could have the Crucible EMP temporarily shut down the Reapers entirely. Make it so that the bulk of the Reaper forces arrayed over Earth are rendered completely vulnerable to attack for several key moments. As far back as ME 1 we've seen that it really only takes one frigate mounted railgun round to one-shot a dreadnought once their shields are down so the assembled armada of allied ships during that point of the game would make mincemeat out of any Reaper out in the open. After that, once the Reapers regain their senses they would be left reeling at the loss of so many capital ships as well as their defacto leader, Harbinger (since there wouldn't be a Catalyst master control program), they would opt to flee rather than stay and fight. When you say the crucible fires an emp disabling the reapers, is a one time shot or can it fire multiple times? If it's a one time shot, the galaxy better be prepared when the rest of the reapers show up. If it can fire the emp multiple time, then all the galaxy would have to do is lure the remaining reapers to the crucible's location. Would the reapers retreat? I would side with no. It's because their programming won't let them. They are programmed to harvest. They don't know retreat. Even though I said no, it's possible thing would download itself into a reaper, Harbinger most likely, and high tail it out of the galaxy back to darkspace. Here's another thought, one I've mentioned before. In ME1, Barla Von mentions the Citadel has engines. What if Shepard were to drive the Citadel into the nearest sun destroying it? What would happen to the reapers? Are they still under thing's control? According to a poster, he/she counted about 100 reapers above Earth. Then there's the one's on the planet. I know the codex mentions there are about 400 processing ships on Earth, but no idea how many reapers. The reapers would likely count those as acceptable loses. They even did the same over Thessia did they not? They don't care. Go back to the first harvest. No reapers existed. The next cycle you would think the organics at that time would have enough firepower to destroy Harbinger. Now after doing it x number of times, the galaxy has nothing to stop the reapers except a giant microphone. I do agree about your example from ME1. It appears the reaper becomes a wet noodle when it's shields are down. The only reason why an emp would work is because Bioware made the reapers stupid in ME3. Had the reapers went to the Citadel first, they win. If all reapers went to each system one at a time, they win, and so on. I would guess any reaper that retreated will be fine. They go back to their home base in darkspace. I say there's another giant spacestation. During the 50 000 years, the reapers are hooked up to it. For that time, mechs give the reaper a once over. Change the tires, grease the fittings, repair any dents. The reaper is like a car. It gets repaired leaving the garage like it was new. I know that. Time is not on their side. They have no idea how long it will take for kett reinforcements to show up. And even if no kett reinforcements don't show up, they have to assume there will be. But I know they won't do that. Look at the mess they created for themselves before leaving the Milky Way. For the time being, I believe the best thing to do is send the main character to another cluster to get help.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
May 12, 2024 21:51:52 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 17, 2023 17:14:33 GMT
Honestly with how Liam's personal quest was written I don't think Forspoken was that far off. To me, all this quippy, quirky, and forced comedic Citadel DLC-level dialogue needs to be shoved out the airlock. Call ME 1 boring and exposition heavy all you want but at least it didn't remove me from my immersion nor did it make my head nearly collapse into a singularity from all the cringe I was experiencing.
Yes, that's why I felt somewhat conflicted about what to think when I heard they hired the writer for Guardians of the Galaxy game for the next ME. On the one side, having some good banter between characters is fairly nice, it livens up the game and the gameworld when placed appropriately. On the other hand that banter is all the Guardian of Galaxy franchise has, there is hardly any depth in its stories or even in the setting IMO, just some random and IMO fairly unoriginal basic ideas below all the booms and bangs and some pretty CGI. It's great for movies based on comics but obviously a far cry from what I would expect to see in a sci-fi setting. That said, I'd like to see some of the graphical and artistic opulence these kind of movies offer also for ME series.
On the other hand I think the Citadel DLC and the way Bioware tried to mend the complaints over ME3 being way too depressing in ME:A is a result of a really bad misunderstanding.
They simply did not understand that we did not like an artificial depression being imposed on us by taking away how our character should feel. When in ME1 and 2 you had a choice in commenting on situation, in ME3 you suddenly had to deal with the character "feeling" his/her own emotions independent of the player and seeing these weird dreams, on top of heavy hints that Shepard will die.
Such narrative approach is probably somewhat understandable, given that Reapers are literally enders of the world, but coming from ME1 and 2 we were used to a different tone - "things look grim, the light op hope is dim, yet we will do everything we can to win", especially after ME2's suicide mission after which you felt like you can take on everything in the world. And instead of taking a step back to ME1/2 they decided to go to the other extreme where you are basically on a space safary congratulating each other on the number of sentient things you murdered and doing "yeah, that's horible... whatever" meme here and there. Comments on ME:A about being close to contemporary sitcoms at that time were fairly well on point IMO. We were promised sci-fi in trailers(remember that Jian Garson one standing on the moon explaining the Arc project?) and got a daily soap, probably because of the disconnect between Bioware and the playerbase after ME3 fallout.
Well said. BioWare took the wrong lesson from the Citadel DLC. The reason why it was so popular at the time; though even then I could only stomach a single, rushed play through of it; was because the rest of the game was so depressing with a forced auto-dialogue Shepard who took control & agency away from the player. If you've been living on nothing but moldy bread for a year and then you're offered a quadruple chocolate fudge sundae out of the blue then of course you will go for it since it's different. The problem is BioWare took that to mean that they should be giving us that quadruple chocolate fudge sundae for every single meal.
|
|
inherit
10454
0
Apr 12, 2024 18:34:23 GMT
302
mtheillusive
169
Aug 29, 2018 17:14:05 GMT
August 2018
mtheillusive
|
Post by mtheillusive on Mar 18, 2023 14:59:24 GMT
Andromeda reaaaaaallllyyy depends on how you play it. The last time I played it was by far my best playthrough and actually made me appreciate the game by itself a bit more.
I played it broken down into 3 parts:
1. All the general universe building colonial stuff out the way. So thats Habitat 7 --> Nexus--> Eos(military base decision)--> Nexus--> Aya(but only do the serious convos for now, to keep the mood)--> Nexus--> Voeld (with enough viability missions to build a colony WITHOUT resetting the vault, saving the Moshae or dealing with that AI)--> Harval (just the save the scientist stuff)--> Voeld(Save Moshae)--> Aya--> Nexus--> Harval (everything, reset vault, get base etc.)--> Kadara (everything I possibly can before the Party thing, and intentiaonally do NOT get the Kett transponder thing just yet)--> Elladen (just the primary stuff so you can create join colonies)--> Kadara (party)--> H-3073c asteroid (just brief land and drive blind, but don't start anything serious yet)--> Voeld (Ai mission + a few others, looks FANTASTIC with Explorer Armor, has a creepy almost Annihilation like feel)--> High Noon (I personally prefer Sloane, gives game more grit lmao) and Kadara colony. At this point all the habitats you can create are done and I consider this the end of part 1. The setting of the game has now been BUILT if you will, not just read via codex.
2. The fun ish (I love this part cause this is where the game EXCELS now). Nexus (peebees stuff + start of contagion) --> Return to Eos (Rem Architect, Kett, etc. with newly created Pathfider armor)--> Liam's personal mission (ft. Cora)--> Kadara (contagion finish)--> a few side stuff like Peebees to make her big mission accessible and Eeladen to get Turian ark mission ready and Kett transponder--> Nexus--> H-3073C Asteroid + Vetra quest (ft. Drack) + Rem Tiller + Turian Ark--> Nexus-->Peebee mission (ft Cora, kill the asari)--> Salarian Ark (keep Raeka) + Asari Ark (keep Sarissa)--> Nexus--> Then play Remnat City Khi Tasira and the Scourge data and Meridian as one LONG final primary mission.
This section is AMAZING imo, the heart of the game, and really feels like you are now a full blown explorer with a scientific team (especially last portion, and getting the arks, etc. back on track and getting to the heart of the mysteries of Andromeda is the goal. Oh, and NO LOCK IN ROMANCE!!! It ruins the seriousness. BTW, the visuals of this portion is non stop AMAZING!
3. The Aftermath. Checking up on colonies, complete the Overlord like mission and kill Knight, and also discover Cerberus for the first time also on Kadara, Dracks loyalty quests and Jaals--> then Dracks loyalty MISSION followed by Jaals (kill the Rokaer guy)--> then everything ese just flows from there as like an aftermath epilogue type of thing, romance etc.. Because of the scientific basis, and generally close out the game with them going to the black hole area....
Cause if Andromeda were to continue, especially with Ryder, I would love a bit of a time jump (20, 40, however many years)...like Interstellar. Maybe involves the Quarian ark and/or some Remnant mission? Either way, whether done by an actual played mission or just by lore, it would make for a very interesting story, especially if a good portion of the crew dies (personally I'd only keep Ryder, Cora and Drack lmao).
Basically, if the trilogy played like a mix of Star Trek and Star Wars, I play Andromeda like a mix of Annihilation + Interstellar with some colonizing stuff mixed in.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
May 12, 2024 21:51:52 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 22, 2023 22:47:49 GMT
You know, I wouldn't even mind a political thriller as the backdrop to the next title, provided BioWare can actually approach such a topic in a nuanced, even handed manner. Andromeda should have been about exploring the unknown, but second most important, I feel, should have been about the question of colonialism in the new galaxy. Would it have been a touchy subject? Sure, but it would have added depth and weight to the plot and posed real questions to the player.
Call me cynical, but I would much rather have something like this, to the Saturday morning cartoon we did get:
|
|
inherit
9274
0
991
hulluliini
533
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Mar 23, 2023 9:02:36 GMT
They could discuss plenty of touchy subjects if they just handled them subtly enough so that the dumbest asses among the players or reviewers wouldn't even notice.
|
|
inherit
12295
0
Apr 18, 2024 22:15:47 GMT
94
heinomk3
78
Jul 23, 2022 20:10:29 GMT
July 2022
heinomk3
|
Post by heinomk3 on Mar 29, 2023 0:34:37 GMT
They could discuss plenty of touchy subjects if they just handled them subtly enough so that the dumbest asses among the players or reviewers wouldn't even notice. It is hardly the players or even reviewers, mostly of whom are bought off anyway. It is the developers themselves who are the issue. Remember Manveer Heir, the very unsubtle gentleman with a mental diarrhea on Twitter? Bioware has a new one in the making:
Would you expect a subtle, respectful approach towards the audience and a nuanced handling of the story, setting, ingame characters from someone with "vengeance" towards said audience in mind?
Even much more sane and seemingly level-headed people at Bioware seem(ed, he has left during/after ME2) to fall into the trap of reducing fairly complex topics into simple political buzzwords like racism.
IE Chris l'Etoile on artificial intelligences: The guy completely ignores the basic, deep-rooted reason, possibly stemming from the evolutionary process and the way in which we develop our conciousness, which is the fear of the unknown. This is a very basic instinct grounded in the terrible reality of understanding that it is easy to (sometimes absolutely horribly) die to a lot of things on our planet and probably on a lot of other planets, too. Which is why we spend considerable time to change our surrounding and even ourselves in a way which allows us to accurately estimate how we and our surroundings will react to each other. We spend time to train our pets, a lot of time to train and indoctrinate our offspring and at times considerable effort to meticulously eradicate all other forms of life in our immediate vincinity just to be sure to avoid any unexpected and possible unmanageable theats to our existance.
Reducing all of that to "racism" is IMO quite ignorant or when judging with a lot of goodwill simply stupidly naive.
|
|
inherit
401
0
1
41,610
BearKingReborn
20,541
August 2016
dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
887
590
|
Post by BearKingReborn on Mar 29, 2023 0:47:46 GMT
If Bioware writers - and developers in general - holding progressive political views are 'deal breakers' for you, then I'd suggest that you are in for an unpleasant experience if you try to play the Next Mass Effect game (or any Bioware game).
----
Mod note: Be very, very careful about how you characterize Bioware developers here. As explicitly stated in the forum rules, they receive heightened protection (whether they are present here or not). You believing your description of Patrick, or any Bioware dev, to be accurate does not mean it necessarily complies with the forum rules regarding attacks on developers.
|
|
inherit
401
0
1
41,610
BearKingReborn
20,541
August 2016
dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
887
590
|
Post by BearKingReborn on Mar 29, 2023 3:18:54 GMT
If Bioware writers - and developers in general - holding progressive political views are 'deal breakers' for you, then I'd suggest that you are in for an unpleasant experience if you try to play the Next Mass Effect game (or any Bioware game). I prefer a "wait and see approach" at this time, tbh, especially as I do like to believe that most of the people holding different political views aren't complete bonkers and won't go off the deep end about their convictions when creating a game for a world-wide audience. But if you insist that this IS the case, we might see another wave of some meme-videos some years down the line, I guess? Either a good game or funny memes - still at least one win in my book I didn't actually 'insist' anything of the sort. I - quite literally, and you quoted - 'suggested' that it probably wouldn't be something you'd enjoy. And you have brought up Patrick's political views in this thread twice already. A thread about 'deal breakers'. Deal breaker number one: Bioware devs being tilted strongely to a fairly extreme political spectrum and thus unable to deliver an interesting story with balanced view points anymore. That says pretty plainly that them holding what you deem 'extreme' political views is a deal breaker. But sure - wait and see, of course.
|
|
inherit
9274
0
991
hulluliini
533
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Mar 29, 2023 7:26:36 GMT
They could discuss plenty of touchy subjects if they just handled them subtly enough so that the dumbest asses among the players or reviewers wouldn't even notice. It is hardly the players or even reviewers, mostly of whom are bought off anyway. It is the developers themselves who are the issue. Remember Manveer Heir, the very unsubtle gentleman with a mental diarrhea on Twitter? Bioware has a new one in the making:
Would you expect a subtle, respectful approach towards the audience and a nuanced handling of the story, setting, ingame characters from someone with "vengeance" towards said audience in mind?
Even much more sane and seemingly level-headed people at Bioware seem(ed, he has left during/after ME2) to fall into the trap of reducing fairly complex topics into simple political buzzwords like racism.
IE Chris l'Etoile on artificial intelligences: The guy completely ignores the basic, deep-rooted reason, possibly stemming from the evolutionary process and the way in which we develop our conciousness, which is the fear of the unknown. This is a very basic instinct grounded in the terrible reality of understanding that it is easy to (sometimes absolutely horribly) die to a lot of things on our planet and probably on a lot of other planets, too. Which is why we spend considerable time to change our surrounding and even ourselves in a way which allows us to accurately estimate how we and our surroundings will react to each other. We spend time to train our pets, a lot of time to train and indoctrinate our offspring and at times considerable effort to meticulously eradicate all other forms of life in our immediate vincinity just to be sure to avoid any unexpected and possible unmanageable theats to our existance.
Reducing all of that to "racism" is IMO quite ignorant or when judging with a lot of goodwill simply stupidly naive.
Do I understand it correctly - a transgender kid went on a shooting spree at school and as reaction, some transgendered people created Trans Day of Vengeance (i.e. those people shot deserved to be shot)? Mind. Blown. Still, it's hardly representative of all transgendered people. None of the transgendered people I know personally are like this. It could just as well be a rightwing nutcase, only the motives are different but the underlying tendency of aggression is the same. It's just harder to combat aggression when it's justified by allegedly protecting human rights. Anyway, seeing as Weekes has been one of the writers since day 1 and Andromeda still had plenty of problematic messages? Andromeda was actually criticised for representing a transgendered person incorrectly. Even having a non-binary person on staff, they couldn't get it right. Because it's only an afterthought. So anyone having an irrational hatred of seeing non-cishet representation in their entertainment need not worry, IMO. I do agree on L'Etoile oversimplifying in your quote. It's also contradictory to his desire to not humanise the Geth too much.
|
|
blah23
N2
Arise!
Posts: 83 Likes: 86
inherit
446
0
86
blah23
Arise!
83
August 2016
blah23
|
Post by blah23 on Mar 29, 2023 13:06:22 GMT
It is hardly the players or even reviewers, mostly of whom are bought off anyway. It is the developers themselves who are the issue. Remember Manveer Heir, the very unsubtle gentleman with a mental diarrhea on Twitter? Bioware has a new one in the making:
Would you expect a subtle, respectful approach towards the audience and a nuanced handling of the story, setting, ingame characters from someone with "vengeance" towards said audience in mind?
Even much more sane and seemingly level-headed people at Bioware seem(ed, he has left during/after ME2) to fall into the trap of reducing fairly complex topics into simple political buzzwords like racism.
IE Chris l'Etoile on artificial intelligences: The guy completely ignores the basic, deep-rooted reason, possibly stemming from the evolutionary process and the way in which we develop our conciousness, which is the fear of the unknown. This is a very basic instinct grounded in the terrible reality of understanding that it is easy to (sometimes absolutely horribly) die to a lot of things on our planet and probably on a lot of other planets, too. Which is why we spend considerable time to change our surrounding and even ourselves in a way which allows us to accurately estimate how we and our surroundings will react to each other. We spend time to train our pets, a lot of time to train and indoctrinate our offspring and at times considerable effort to meticulously eradicate all other forms of life in our immediate vincinity just to be sure to avoid any unexpected and possible unmanageable theats to our existance.
Reducing all of that to "racism" is IMO quite ignorant or when judging with a lot of goodwill simply stupidly naive.
Do I understand it correctly - a transgender kid went on a shooting spree at school and as reaction, some transgendered people created Trans Day of Vengeance (i.e. those people shot deserved to be shot)? Mind. Blown. Still, it's hardly representative of all transgendered people. None of the transgendered people I know personally are like this. It could just as well be a rightwing nutcase, only the motives are different but the underlying tendency of aggression is the same. It's just harder to combat aggression when it's justified by allegedly protecting human rights. Anyway, seeing as Weekes has been one of the writers since day 1 and Andromeda still had plenty of problematic messages? Andromeda was actually criticised for representing a transgendered person incorrectly. Even having a non-binary person on staff, they couldn't get it right. Because it's only an afterthought. So anyone having an irrational hatred of seeing non-cishet representation in their entertainment need not worry, IMO. I do agree on L'Etoile oversimplifying in your quote. It's also contradictory to his desire to not humanise the Geth too much. Bioware has been writing LGBT characters for a long time and nobody has any problem with that until Andromeda happened. They wrote a terrible transgender character and there is a trend of emasculation of male characters and female characters being written as holier-than-thou girlbosses.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
May 12, 2024 21:51:52 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 29, 2023 14:15:23 GMT
Even much more sane and seemingly level-headed people at Bioware seem(ed, he has left during/after ME2) to fall into the trap of reducing fairly complex topics into simple political buzzwords like racism.
IE Chris l'Etoile on artificial intelligences: The guy completely ignores the basic, deep-rooted reason, possibly stemming from the evolutionary process and the way in which we develop our conciousness, which is the fear of the unknown. This is a very basic instinct grounded in the terrible reality of understanding that it is easy to (sometimes absolutely horribly) die to a lot of things on our planet and probably on a lot of other planets, too. Which is why we spend considerable time to change our surrounding and even ourselves in a way which allows us to accurately estimate how we and our surroundings will react to each other. We spend time to train our pets, a lot of time to train and indoctrinate our offspring and at times considerable effort to meticulously eradicate all other forms of life in our immediate vincinity just to be sure to avoid any unexpected and possible unmanageable theats to our existance.
Reducing all of that to "racism" is IMO quite ignorant or when judging with a lot of goodwill simply stupidly naive.
I agree. The whole notion of AI as 'slaves' to 'racist' organics is such a trite and frankly juvenile theme to explore in science fiction writing. "Oh those humans are buying and selling those robots. That's like totally an analogy to slavery and racism!" Such depth. So Unique. Much Wow. It's not like such low brow concepts have been explored ad nuasum in every form of media to the point it's become literary white noise. How about instead we look at AI as their own separate, and very alien, nature of being when compared to organic life rather than just having the AI's as humans wearing metal-face? That would be novel and stand out from most other explorations of this theme. Writing truly alien beings is not possible granted but could the writers at least give it some effort? Take into consideration that, as an information based intelligence who, unlike organics, would know the reason behind it's creation and the purpose it was intended to fulfill could mean that concepts such as 'slavery' would be as alien to the AI as quantum mechanics is to an average person. If the purpose of an AI was to organize and arrange shipping containers then why would we assume that tasking it with performing that role would be oppressive? A poor analogy I will admit but: Would a person who has realized that their true passion in life is writing cookbooks feel oppressed when asked to write a recipe book? If a person in their dream job would find fulfillment out of that task then why wouldn't an artificial intelligence, fulfilling it's intended purpose, not feel the same degree of satisfaction?
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
May 11, 2024 16:44:15 GMT
30,256
Hanako Ikezawa
22,360
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 29, 2023 16:54:47 GMT
It is hardly the players or even reviewers, mostly of whom are bought off anyway. It is the developers themselves who are the issue. Remember Manveer Heir, the very unsubtle gentleman with a mental diarrhea on Twitter? Bioware has a new one in the making:
Would you expect a subtle, respectful approach towards the audience and a nuanced handling of the story, setting, ingame characters from someone with "vengeance" towards said audience in mind?
Even much more sane and seemingly level-headed people at Bioware seem(ed, he has left during/after ME2) to fall into the trap of reducing fairly complex topics into simple political buzzwords like racism.
IE Chris l'Etoile on artificial intelligences: The guy completely ignores the basic, deep-rooted reason, possibly stemming from the evolutionary process and the way in which we develop our conciousness, which is the fear of the unknown. This is a very basic instinct grounded in the terrible reality of understanding that it is easy to (sometimes absolutely horribly) die to a lot of things on our planet and probably on a lot of other planets, too. Which is why we spend considerable time to change our surrounding and even ourselves in a way which allows us to accurately estimate how we and our surroundings will react to each other. We spend time to train our pets, a lot of time to train and indoctrinate our offspring and at times considerable effort to meticulously eradicate all other forms of life in our immediate vincinity just to be sure to avoid any unexpected and possible unmanageable theats to our existance.
Reducing all of that to "racism" is IMO quite ignorant or when judging with a lot of goodwill simply stupidly naive.
Do I understand it correctly - a transgender kid went on a shooting spree at school and as reaction, some transgendered people created Trans Day of Vengeance (i.e. those people shot deserved to be shot)? Mind. Blown. You are misunderstanding. That post was made days before the recent shooting (which was done by a 28 year old so not a kid).
|
|
inherit
9274
0
991
hulluliini
533
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Mar 30, 2023 6:55:42 GMT
Do I understand it correctly - a transgender kid went on a shooting spree at school and as reaction, some transgendered people created Trans Day of Vengeance (i.e. those people shot deserved to be shot)? Mind. Blown. You are misunderstanding. That post was made days before the recent shooting (which was done by a 28 year old so not a kid). Thank god. I didn't even realise the shooting was so recent. If only we knew of a way to prevent these shootings...
|
|
inherit
9274
0
991
hulluliini
533
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Mar 30, 2023 6:58:50 GMT
Do I understand it correctly - a transgender kid went on a shooting spree at school and as reaction, some transgendered people created Trans Day of Vengeance (i.e. those people shot deserved to be shot)? Mind. Blown. Still, it's hardly representative of all transgendered people. None of the transgendered people I know personally are like this. It could just as well be a rightwing nutcase, only the motives are different but the underlying tendency of aggression is the same. It's just harder to combat aggression when it's justified by allegedly protecting human rights. Anyway, seeing as Weekes has been one of the writers since day 1 and Andromeda still had plenty of problematic messages? Andromeda was actually criticised for representing a transgendered person incorrectly. Even having a non-binary person on staff, they couldn't get it right. Because it's only an afterthought. So anyone having an irrational hatred of seeing non-cishet representation in their entertainment need not worry, IMO. I do agree on L'Etoile oversimplifying in your quote. It's also contradictory to his desire to not humanise the Geth too much. Bioware has been writing LGBT characters for a long time and nobody has any problem with that until Andromeda happened. They wrote a terrible transgender character and there is a trend of emasculation of male characters and female characters being written as holier-than-thou girlbosses. Could you give me some examples? I've only played ME and having Traynor and Cortez not until ME3 doesn't mean having LGBT characters "for a long time", IMO. And which male characters are emasculated (and what does that mean exactly - eunuchs?) and which female characters are holier than thou? Because I haven't spotted them myself.
|
|
inherit
1227
0
3,673
Phantom
2,661
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Mar 30, 2023 16:24:18 GMT
Bioware has been writing LGBT characters for a long time and nobody has any problem with that until Andromeda happened. They wrote a terrible transgender character and there is a trend of emasculation of male characters and female characters being written as holier-than-thou girlbosses. Could you give me some examples? I've only played ME and having Traynor and Cortez not until ME3 doesn't mean having LGBT characters "for a long time", IMO. And which male characters are emasculated (and what does that mean exactly - eunuchs?) and which female characters are holier than thou? Because I haven't spotted them myself. Kotor 1 example: Juhani DAO Example: Leliana, Zervan, DA2 Example: Isabella, Anders, Fenris, Merrill
|
|
mrobnoxiousuk
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 234 Likes: 200
inherit
4755
0
May 11, 2024 18:25:31 GMT
200
mrobnoxiousuk
234
March 2017
mrobnoxiousuk
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 30, 2023 23:53:38 GMT
Could you give me some examples? I've only played ME and having Traynor and Cortez not until ME3 doesn't mean having LGBT characters "for a long time", IMO. And which male characters are emasculated (and what does that mean exactly - eunuchs?) and which female characters are holier than thou? Because I haven't spotted them myself. Kotor 1 example: Juhani DAO Example: Leliana, Zervan, DA2 Example: Isabella, Anders, Fenris, Merrill You left out the Jade empire pairings too Dawn star and silk fox for female/female Sky for male/male
|
|
inherit
57
0
1
32,678
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,131
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Mar 31, 2023 1:01:47 GMT
That Dragon Age has recently regained Mark Darrah (as a consultant) to sense check Dragon Age Dreadwolf's 'Dragon Age authenticity' says to me that BioWare are open to trusted feedback to make sure they get the game just right.
It wouldn't surprise me if they use a similar approach, with trusted feedback sources on Mass Effect 5.
|
|
blah23
N2
Arise!
Posts: 83 Likes: 86
inherit
446
0
86
blah23
Arise!
83
August 2016
blah23
|
Post by blah23 on Mar 31, 2023 1:54:33 GMT
That Dragon Age has recently regained Mark Darrah (as a consultant) to sense check Dragon Age Dreadwolf's 'Dragon Age authenticity' says to me that BioWare are open to trusted feedback to make sure they get the game just right. It wouldn't surprise me if they use a similar approach, with trusted feedback sources on Mass Effect 5. As long as the game won't have the "updated for modern audiences/ reflecting the world we live in today" schtic, I'm all in.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,295
themikefest
14,823
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Mar 31, 2023 2:01:39 GMT
That Dragon Age has recently regained Mark Darrah (as a consultant) to sense check Dragon Age Dreadwolf's 'Dragon Age authenticity' says to me that BioWare are open to trusted feedback to make sure they get the game just right. It wouldn't surprise me if they use a similar approach, with trusted feedback sources on Mass Effect 5. If Walters returns to help with ME4, hopefully it means Cerberus will have a role in the game.
|
|