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Post by hulluliini on Mar 31, 2023 7:17:07 GMT
Could you give me some examples? I've only played ME and having Traynor and Cortez not until ME3 doesn't mean having LGBT characters "for a long time", IMO. And which male characters are emasculated (and what does that mean exactly - eunuchs?) and which female characters are holier than thou? Because I haven't spotted them myself. Kotor 1 example: Juhani DAO Example: Leliana, Zervan, DA2 Example: Isabella, Anders, Fenris, Merrill So all examples in games I haven't played. I doubt I will ever play DA because I don't like fantasy and I'm hoping the KOTOR remake will happen one day.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 31, 2023 17:00:49 GMT
Kotor 1 example: Juhani DAO Example: Leliana, Zervan, DA2 Example: Isabella, Anders, Fenris, Merrill So all examples in games I haven't played. I doubt I will ever play DA because I don't like fantasy and I'm hoping the KOTOR remake will happen one day. They are great buys because they are the better Bioware games. Kotor 1 is my first bioware game. Yes it is a good game to buy. Jade Empire is another good game to buy. So is DAO and DA2.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 31, 2023 18:29:55 GMT
That Dragon Age has recently regained Mark Darrah (as a consultant) to sense check Dragon Age Dreadwolf's 'Dragon Age authenticity' says to me that BioWare are open to trusted feedback to make sure they get the game just right. It wouldn't surprise me if they use a similar approach, with trusted feedback sources on Mass Effect 5. For me feel wise the last time DA got it right was 2, it just had poor game play/ over used assets imo. but the characters and story felt solid for the setting. DAI was sure in the setting it had the right key words but it didn't feel the same. So I have my doubts they will pull it off.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 31, 2023 18:40:12 GMT
So all examples in games I haven't played. I doubt I will ever play DA because I don't like fantasy and I'm hoping the KOTOR remake will happen one day. They are great buys because they are the better Bioware games. Kotor 1 is my first bioware game. Yes it is a good game to buy. Jade Empire is another good game to buy. So is DAO and DA2. Of those games, I haven't played Jade Empire. The others are good. The best is DAO. DAO is my favorite Bioware game I've played. It has a great soundtrack. The camp music is so soothing to come back to after a day of killing darkspawn, bandits and whatever else to relax. It has a redhead who sings. It has the best mother of any videogame out there.....BROODMOTHER. I would recommend the game and the others to people who haven't played them That Dragon Age has recently regained Mark Darrah (as a consultant) to sense check Dragon Age Dreadwolf's 'Dragon Age authenticity' says to me that BioWare are open to trusted feedback to make sure they get the game just right. It wouldn't surprise me if they use a similar approach, with trusted feedback sources on Mass Effect 5. For me feel wise the last time DA got it right was 2, it just had poor game play/ over used assets imo. but the characters and story felt solid for the setting. DAI was sure in the setting it had the right key words but it didn't feel the same. So I have my doubts they will pull it off. DA2 had the best, at least for me, dialogue system of any Bioware game.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 31, 2023 19:02:36 GMT
They are great buys because they are the better Bioware games. Kotor 1 is my first bioware game. Yes it is a good game to buy. Jade Empire is another good game to buy. So is DAO and DA2. Of those games, I haven't played Jade Empire. The others are good. The best is DAO. DAO is my favorite Bioware game I've played. It has a great soundtrack. The camp music is so soothing to come back to after a day of killing darkspawn, bandits and whatever else to relax. It has a redhead who sings. It has the best mother of any videogame out there.....BROODMOTHER. I would recommend the game and the others to people who haven't played them For me feel wise the last time DA got it right was 2, it just had poor game play/ over used assets imo. but the characters and story felt solid for the setting. DAI was sure in the setting it had the right key words but it didn't feel the same. So I have my doubts they will pull it off. DA2 had the best, at least for me, dialogue system of any Bioware game.
DA2 had a solid conversation system. I will always remain a fan of the R/P from mass effect, even if the implementation of what renegades were had some big misses in the first 2 and the barriers for success were poorly implemented. But I always like the idea of a guiding philosophy for your actions vs emotions. If they could somehow combine the best of their various dialogue systems together that would be ideal to me. MEA failed in that regard for me, it tried to sort of combine the two the Logic/professional vs more emotional paradigm stepping in for renegade/paragon in philosophy but they all came across as different emotional responses as opposed to a philosophical character building idea.
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Post by heinomk3 on Apr 1, 2023 16:40:03 GMT
Kotor 1 example: Juhani DAO Example: Leliana, Zervan, DA2 Example: Isabella, Anders, Fenris, Merrill So all examples in games I haven't played. I doubt I will ever play DA because I don't like fantasy and I'm hoping the KOTOR remake will happen one day. But you surely have played ME:A? They had a trans person there.
I mean Cora. She is pretty obviously transasari.
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Post by hulluliini on Apr 2, 2023 11:05:23 GMT
So all examples in games I haven't played. I doubt I will ever play DA because I don't like fantasy and I'm hoping the KOTOR remake will happen one day. But you surely have played ME:A? They had a trans person there.
I mean Cora. She is pretty obviously transasari.
And having one character be trans out of hundreds is bad how exactly? It's about the same ratio we have in the real world.
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Post by Adia on Apr 2, 2023 14:42:20 GMT
Judging by the previous comments on this thread I'm probably gonna get roasted for saying this but the Mass Effect team treats their gay characters like garbage. They get a lot less resources put into them - their skin textures are taken from the character creation, their hairstyles are also taken from the character creation, they wear the same uniforms as other non important NPC's or in Andromeda's case, a straight up recolor / reskin of already existing uniform, they are never companions, they lack content especially if you romance them and they all around seem like an after thought. Compare this treatment to Dragon Age: Inqusition where the gay characters (Dorian and Sera) are front and center. It's funny how people call Andromeda a 'woke LGBT' game when they wrote a trans perosn HORRIBLY and treat their gay characters like this. If I see this sort of treatment happening in ME5 (or is it ME4?) it's going to be a huge deal breaker and a massive turn off for me.
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Post by hulluliini on Apr 3, 2023 7:45:20 GMT
Judging by the previous comments on this thread I'm probably gonna get roasted for saying this but the Mass Effect team treats their gay characters like garbage. They get a lot less resources put into them - their skin textures are taken from the character creation, their hairstyles are also taken from the character creation, they wear the same uniforms as other non important NPC's or in Andromeda's case, a straight up recolor / reskin of already existing uniform, they are never companions, they lack content especially if you romance them and they all around seem like an after thought. Compare this treatment to Dragon Age: Inqusition where the gay characters (Dorian and Sera) are front and center. It's funny how people call Andromeda a 'woke LGBT' game when they wrote a trans perosn HORRIBLY and treat their gay characters like this. If I see this sort of treatment happening in ME5 (or is it ME4?) it's going to be a huge deal breaker and a massive turn off for me. Yep, exactly why I wouldn't be worried if I was someone who just hates seeing minorities in any shape or form as opposed to being completely invisible. Clearly the minority representatives among ME developers are not getting their opinions heard. We are getting the "token black guy" treatment. Hm, maybe I should give DA a try after all.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 3, 2023 23:47:17 GMT
they wear the same uniforms as other non important NPC's So Sam and Steve wear the same uniform. Why is that a problem? They are in the Alliance. The Alliance is military, is it not? Why would they wear something different when on duty?
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Post by Adia on Apr 4, 2023 15:37:37 GMT
they wear the same uniforms as other non important NPC's So Sam and Steve wear the same uniform. Why is that a problem? They are in the Alliance. The Alliance is military, is it not? Why would they wear something different when on duty? The problem is that they wear the same uniform as the rest of the crew which makes them blend in too much. Compare that with Kaidan and Ashley for example who have their own unique suit. Same thing with their faces - Kaidan and Ashley were 3D modeled off a real person, whereas Steve and Traynor weren't. They weren't even professionally sculpted like Dorian and Sera. Bioware just made whatever face that looks OK. If anyone could dress as Miranda for example and have the exact same hairstyle as her, that would make her a lot less special. There's a reason why they gave her 3D model unique assets. But she's Ceberus. Does that mean everyone in Ceberus should dress EXACTLY like her? and have the EXACT same hairstyle as her? There's a reason why random ass unimportant NPC's don't share the same hairstyles, face textures and suits as companions / advisors. Gay characters (especially romance-able ones) don't need to be companions or have big tie in to the story, but spending resources on unique assets for them is the bare minimum in my eyes.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 4, 2023 23:18:38 GMT
So Sam and Steve wear the same uniform. Why is that a problem? They are in the Alliance. The Alliance is military, is it not? Why would they wear something different when on duty? The problem is that they wear the same uniform as the rest of the crew which makes them blend in too much. Blend in too much? What? They're in the military. What would you have preferred they wear? If they weren't Alliance, I would agree they should/could wear something different. What suit did Alenko wear that was unique? He wear's BDU's just like Steve and Sam when on the ship and on the Citadel. He wears armor when taken on a mission. Yes Ashley does have a different outfit than others, but so what? Look at Anderson. At the beginning he wears his dress uniform, but after the beginning, he's wearing his BDU's.
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Post by heinomk3 on Apr 5, 2023 0:50:39 GMT
But you surely have played ME:A? They had a trans person there.
I mean Cora. She is pretty obviously transasari.
And having one character be trans out of hundreds is bad how exactly? It's about the same ratio we have in the real world. You know, this is where you are absolutely wrong, which is no wonder, because most of us, including myself initially, have totally missed the point of ME:A and the incredible genius of its creators. You see, there were probably thousands - and in terms of lore billions if not trillions - trans people. And we were murdering them left and right, to the last we could get our bloodied hands on in Heleus cluster, with the happily intent to kill even more.
Just like it happens IRL the Kett were friendly at first, bearing gifts and sweet talk. And then, when they were confident enough, the call was "transition - or else!" for the Angara, causing a devastating societal collapse. And then Angara changed their minds and just as the saying "Weimar conditions lead to Weimar solutions" goes, suddenly started to see the Kett in an absolutely new light. I honestly was taken a bit aback, when Jaal was at first totally devastated to discover that Kett transition Angara by force and then just a mission later he was frothing at the mouth to kill more of the trans-Angara(or trans-Kett, this is a bit confusing) in a murderous rush.
We all thought because of the stupid jokes here and there that the story is pretty shallow for the most of the game, but it turns out it is way deeper and way more dark apparently.
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Post by hulluliini on Apr 5, 2023 10:57:04 GMT
And having one character be trans out of hundreds is bad how exactly? It's about the same ratio we have in the real world. You know, this is where you are absolutely wrong, which is no wonder, because most of us, including myself initially, have totally missed the point of ME:A and the incredible genius of its creators. You see, there were probably thousands - and in terms of lore billions if not trillions - trans people. And we were murdering them left and right, to the last we could get our bloodied hands on in Heleus cluster, with the happily intent to kill even more.
Just like it happens IRL the Kett were friendly at first, bearing gifts and sweet talk. And then, when they were confident enough, the call was "transition - or else!" for the Angara, causing a devastating societal collapse. And then Angara changed their minds and just as the saying "Weimar conditions lead to Weimar solutions" goes, suddenly started to see the Kett in an absolutely new light. I honestly was taken a bit aback, when Jaal was at first totally devastated to discover that Kett transition Angara by force and then just a mission later he was frothing at the mouth to kill more of the trans-Angara(or trans-Kett, this is a bit confusing) in a murderous rush.
We all thought because of the stupid jokes here and there that the story is pretty shallow for the most of the game, but it turns out it is way deeper and way more dark apparently.
That's not what being transgender means in the real world. I do agree that the reactions to the revelation about Kett did not feel as shocked as they should have. I blame cinematic direction.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Apr 5, 2023 17:52:04 GMT
I do agree that the reactions to the revelation about Kett did not feel as shocked as they should have. I blame cinematic direction. I blame blatant telegraphing of the 'revelation'. By the time I saw the Kett transforming an Angaran into a Kett, I had already read enough datapads and scanned enough objects that I predicted it in my head several hours earlier. Seeing it was not shocking, more of a "okay yeah I was right".
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Post by Phantom on Apr 5, 2023 18:20:09 GMT
I do hope that Bioware is reading this thread and taking notes. I do want them to be successful
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Post by hulluliini on Apr 6, 2023 7:22:14 GMT
I do agree that the reactions to the revelation about Kett did not feel as shocked as they should have. I blame cinematic direction. I blame blatant telegraphing of the 'revelation'. By the time I saw the Kett transforming an Angaran into a Kett, I had already read enough datapads and scanned enough objects that I predicted it in my head several hours earlier. Seeing it was not shocking, more of a "okay yeah I was right". For me personally, I also hadn't formed an emotional relationship with the angaran. I'm not sure I still have. I find the female angara disgusting because their lips are constantly moist-looking and the male angara look kind of silly with those tiny lips and square jaws. Their design is completely uninspired IMO.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 6, 2023 11:18:44 GMT
I do hope that Bioware is reading this thread and taking notes. I do want them to be successful For them to be successful, they have to bring back to Cerberus. Cerberus is ME. If there's to be an MEA sequel, Harper needs to become the Illusive Woman(TIW). She will make Cerberus great like they were in ME2. If the game is ME4, Shepard, along with Miranda, rebuild Cerberus to be the powerhouse they were meant to be. The council will merge with Cerberus. The Alliance will merge with Cerberus.
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Post by Vortex13 on Apr 6, 2023 11:58:46 GMT
As I've said, they need to focus more on the science side of science fiction. I would also say that BioWare needs to honestly try to explore the more alien elements of the setting.
And no, I don't count their attempt with the Angara as an exploration of anything remotely alien.
You could literally replace their entire species with a lost colony of humans and nothing about them changes.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 9, 2023 2:59:03 GMT
The problem with Mass Effect is it's very intrinsically tied to Commander Shepherd. Most of it is the fact that the character was the only perspective character throughout the main games (to the point where losing in ME2 meant you couldn't import), but ME2 was a direct continuation of the great work in ME1, and in ME3, you had conversations with Hackett about why Shepherd, specifically, was the amazing one.
Ryder never really worked for me. The family dynamic between Scott and Sara was a good way to use the character creator (especially given the previously nasty way non-chosen selections for character creation were disposed of). It was underutilized, but it was significantly better than Hannah Shepherd or the colony seal thing for Mindoir. However, playing as Ryder, I never got the sense that I was an explorer taming a wild frontier, the Space Western I was promised. I felt like some kid on a road trip. Rather than using levity to lighten the mood of a serious trip, or even as a coping mechanism, it just felt like there would've been no pressure if I failed.
TBH, my ideal Mass Effect would be significantly smaller in scale. I don't want the start of some trilogy. I'd much prefer even a more linear expansion where I'm the hero in a Space Opera going up against some bad guys. Have the main bad guy someone important to me, then have the lieutenants be important to some of my other party members (doubling up is encouraged), set it in the interim between ME1 and ME2. No Reapers are involved, but there should be easter eggs but make it mostly self-contained. Divide up the party to have distinct roles except for the MC, who as human is customizable since that's always been the human thing. Have me up against some batarian terrorists; include an evil asari scientist who makes a bioweapon and her forces, and then some mercs like the ME2 foes. You also have some sidequests that involve people like Cerberus and the Shadow Broker.
Then, after we have a great time, continue with a larger piece with some other group. I can't get invested in a large Mass Effect project since Andromeda was done so poorly, and from the way the devs responded to problems with Andromeda, they clearly didn't have the ability to fix problems.
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Post by Vortex13 on Apr 9, 2023 12:36:08 GMT
The problem with Mass Effect is it's very intrinsically tied to Commander Shepherd. Most of it is the fact that the character was the only perspective character throughout the main games (to the point where losing in ME2 meant you couldn't import), but ME2 was a direct continuation of the great work in ME1, and in ME3, you had conversations with Hackett about why Shepherd, specifically, was the amazing one. Ryder never really worked for me. The family dynamic between Scott and Sara was a good way to use the character creator (especially given the previously nasty way non-chosen selections for character creation were disposed of). It was underutilized, but it was significantly better than Hannah Shepherd or the colony seal thing for Mindoir. However, playing as Ryder, I never got the sense that I was an explorer taming a wild frontier, the Space Western I was promised. I felt like some kid on a road trip. Rather than using levity to lighten the mood of a serious trip, or even as a coping mechanism, it just felt like there would've been no pressure if I failed. TBH, my ideal Mass Effect would be significantly smaller in scale. I don't want the start of some trilogy. I'd much prefer even a more linear expansion where I'm the hero in a Space Opera going up against some bad guys. Have the main bad guy someone important to me, then have the lieutenants be important to some of my other party members (doubling up is encouraged), set it in the interim between ME1 and ME2. No Reapers are involved, but there should be easter eggs but make it mostly self-contained. Divide up the party to have distinct roles except for the MC, who as human is customizable since that's always been the human thing. Have me up against some batarian terrorists; include an evil asari scientist who makes a bioweapon and her forces, and then some mercs like the ME2 foes. You also have some sidequests that involve people like Cerberus and the Shadow Broker. Then, after we have a great time, continue with a larger piece with some other group. I can't get invested in a large Mass Effect project since Andromeda was done so poorly, and from the way the devs responded to problems with Andromeda, they clearly didn't have the ability to fix problems. Agreed. The biggest problem with Andromeda was that there didn't feel like there was anything at stake. Sure the game would TELL you that the Andromeda Imitative was in danger of failing, but then the game would SHOW you a Mos Eisly-like bandit town (complete with a goofy bar fight scene) that was doing just fine outside the player's intervention. The game would TELL the player how desperate the Angara are in their fight against the Khett but then it would SHOW them as society existing peacefully, even letting unknown aliens land directly in the center of their capital city. The game would TELL us how the Khett have launched a full on assault of the Nexus but it would SHOW us something barely larger than a corridor firefight with the military might of the Khett fleet being unable to destroy or even seriously damage the totally defenseless space station. Etc. And all the while the dialogue of Ryder & Co is full of quips, jests, and other forced attempts at humor to the point that it felt very much like you said, a kid on a road trip with nothing threatening you should you fail in your task.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 10, 2023 19:20:18 GMT
The problem with Mass Effect is it's very intrinsically tied to Commander Shepherd. Most of it is the fact that the character was the only perspective character throughout the main games (to the point where losing in ME2 meant you couldn't import), but ME2 was a direct continuation of the great work in ME1, and in ME3, you had conversations with Hackett about why Shepherd, specifically, was the amazing one. Ryder never really worked for me. The family dynamic between Scott and Sara was a good way to use the character creator (especially given the previously nasty way non-chosen selections for character creation were disposed of). It was underutilized, but it was significantly better than Hannah Shepherd or the colony seal thing for Mindoir. However, playing as Ryder, I never got the sense that I was an explorer taming a wild frontier, the Space Western I was promised. I felt like some kid on a road trip. Rather than using levity to lighten the mood of a serious trip, or even as a coping mechanism, it just felt like there would've been no pressure if I failed. TBH, my ideal Mass Effect would be significantly smaller in scale. I don't want the start of some trilogy. I'd much prefer even a more linear expansion where I'm the hero in a Space Opera going up against some bad guys. Have the main bad guy someone important to me, then have the lieutenants be important to some of my other party members (doubling up is encouraged), set it in the interim between ME1 and ME2. No Reapers are involved, but there should be easter eggs but make it mostly self-contained. Divide up the party to have distinct roles except for the MC, who as human is customizable since that's always been the human thing. Have me up against some batarian terrorists; include an evil asari scientist who makes a bioweapon and her forces, and then some mercs like the ME2 foes. You also have some sidequests that involve people like Cerberus and the Shadow Broker. Then, after we have a great time, continue with a larger piece with some other group. I can't get invested in a large Mass Effect project since Andromeda was done so poorly, and from the way the devs responded to problems with Andromeda, they clearly didn't have the ability to fix problems. Agreed. The biggest problem with Andromeda was that there didn't feel like there was anything at stake. Sure the game would TELL you that the Andromeda Imitative was in danger of failing, but then the game would SHOW you a Mos Eisly-like bandit town (complete with a goofy bar fight scene) that was doing just fine outside the player's intervention. The game would TELL the player how desperate the Angara are in their fight against the Khett but then it would SHOW them as society existing peacefully, even letting unknown aliens land directly in the center of their capital city. The game would TELL us how the Khett have launched a full on assault of the Nexus but it would SHOW us something barely larger than a corridor firefight with the military might of the Khett fleet being unable to destroy or even seriously damage the totally defenseless space station. Etc. And all the while the dialogue of Ryder & Co is full of quips, jests, and other forced attempts at humor to the point that it felt very much like you said, a kid on a road trip with nothing threatening you should you fail in your task. After the massive stakes of the trilogy, I kinda enjoyed the somewhat lighter tone of Andromeda but I do agree that there was quite a bit of dissonance between the story told and the events shown and it certainly was to the game's detriment.
Overall, Andromeda suffered very much from a believability problem, which really messed up my immersion. In the trilogy, I could buy the development of humanity and the other races. I could buy into the whole premise of the reapers and even if the ending was a somewhat underwhelming conclusion to the whole thing, for 99% of it it felt cohesive. Not so in Andromeda, where half of the premises and a whole lot of the characters simply didn't make much sense. This to me was the biggest problem with the game's narrative and I sure hope they can improve on that in the next one as well.
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Prime Posts: 8,116
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wright1978
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Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 16, 2023 10:53:44 GMT
Andromeda reminded me of the moment in 'Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy' where they land on the ark that'd deliberately been sent ahead by the Golgafrinchans to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. A real shame really as thought there was real potential in a serious western story of a council back up plan of colonists sent away to escape the reapers.
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Ash
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I've quit MEMP. https://youtu.be/ihv3obuGfm4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Capta1nAsh / N7_Ash
Posts: 183 Likes: 661
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I've quit MEMP. https://youtu.be/ihv3obuGfm4
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capta1nash
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ash on Apr 17, 2023 0:32:21 GMT
Not dealbreakers but it would put a bad taste in my mouth.
- Shepard is alive (would rather it be canon that he's a Martyr, or ME5 is set centuries in the future) - No multiplayer (I know this game needs to have an excellent singleplayer for the franchise to be saved but honestly, my favourite part of ME3/A was the Multiplayer. It was just the combat and jumping from character to character between short matches was fun and addictive) - A lack of Renegade/Agressive dialogue option. (Found it's absense in MEA to be a massive loss, couldn't bite back at NPCs that gave Ryder crap)
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Post by hulluliini on Apr 21, 2023 7:32:21 GMT
I think what people mean with alienness is having species like the Elcor, Volus, Hanar and not just your run-of-the-mill biped double-jointed creatures with lips and "tentacle hair". The Kett are fine in terms of design but for some reason they get kind of boring. On the other hand, all the wildlife was pretty cool.
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