Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers!

Nov 15, 2022 20:17:08 GMT dmc1001 said:

Which is weird because synthesis is directly at odds with what Javik told them about a race in his own time. The AI/organic meld ended with the organics dead. But them I'm a proponent that Reapers can't be trusted to exist and I think they had a hand in the zha/zha'til mess.

Hmm... Starkid does say that it tried something similar in the past and that it failed.

The zha / zha'til wasn't a creation of the Reapers. It was just some race that decided to integrate their own AI with themselves. Like SAM. Except the AI rebelled. If you think about SAM, and how it can control Ryder's body, you run into some dangerous territory. Even if SAM itself never rebelled, other versions might be different.

StarBrat did say that attempts at Synthesis failed in the past. I didn't take it to mean that a green wave covered the galaxy but that there was a failure to get to the point where it was possible. IOW, their was not enough galactic cooperation for it to work. EDIT: This assumes we could take Synthesis as a choice at face value.

Last Edit: Nov 16, 2022 16:16:36 GMT by dmc1001

Dead Reapers are how we win this.
- Admiral Steven Hackett

Iakus
N7

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,748 Likes: 48,910

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 16:54:33 GMT Vortex13 and ahglock like this

Quote

Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2022 16:54:33 GMT

Hmm... Starkid does say that it tried something similar in the past and that it failed.

The zha / zha'til wasn't a creation of the Reapers. It was just some race that decided to integrate their own AI with themselves. Like SAM. Except the AI rebelled. If you think about SAM, and how it can control Ryder's body, you run into some dangerous territory. Even if SAM itself never rebelled, other versions might be different.

The sci-fi/horror movie "Upgrade" comes to mind...

Son of Dorn
N6

Fortifying everything.

Games: Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 6,249 Likes: 5,939

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 16:58:05 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 16, 2022 16:58:05 GMT

Hmm... Starkid does say that it tried something similar in the past and that it failed.

The zha / zha'til wasn't a creation of the Reapers. It was just some race that decided to integrate their own AI with themselves. Like SAM. Except the AI rebelled. If you think about SAM, and how it can control Ryder's body, you run into some dangerous territory. Even if SAM itself never rebelled, other versions might be different.

StarBrat did say that attempts at Synthesis failed in the past. I didn't take it to mean that a green wave covered the galaxy but that there was a failure to get to the point where it was possible. IOW, their was not enough galactic cooperation for it to work. EDIT: This assumes we could take Synthesis as a choice at face value.

Who knows. Bio certainly won't expand on what Starkid said.

Fortifying this signature.

Cyberstrike
N4

is wanting to have some fun!

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,810 Likes: 2,918

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 17:10:45 GMT Hanako Ikezawa likes this

Quote

Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 16, 2022 17:10:45 GMT

Nov 7, 2022 12:16:57 GMT Zemgus said:

"Honestly, I won't address anything about issues with Ryder character, it is pretty damn clear you stubbornly want to only play as the edgelord protagonist"

I don't really like to play the role of the bland vanilla hero so you're not completely wrong. I prefer morally gray anti-heroes and lawful evil type of characters.

Let me ask this simple question:

Why should I be forced to play yet another"morally gray anti-hero and lawful evil type of characters" just to make you happy?

Last Edit: Nov 16, 2022 17:22:20 GMT by Cyberstrike

My personal mottoes:

1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.

2) I don't lose to my problems, I conquer them!

Zemgus
N4

Posts: 1,251 Likes: 1,951

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 17:41:03 GMT Iakus, Phantom, and 3 more like this

Quote

Post by Zemgus on Nov 16, 2022 17:41:03 GMT

Nov 16, 2022 17:10:45 GMT Cyberstrike said:

Nov 7, 2022 12:16:57 GMT Zemgus said:

"Honestly, I won't address anything about issues with Ryder character, it is pretty damn clear you stubbornly want to only play as the edgelord protagonist"

I don't really like to play the role of the bland vanilla hero so you're not completely wrong. I prefer morally gray anti-heroes and lawful evil type of characters.

Let me ask this simple question:

Why should I be forced to play yet another"morally gray anti-hero and lawful evil type of characters" just to make you happy?

That wouldn't make me happy. I would prefer to have options... which Andromeda didn't have.

Last Edit: Nov 16, 2022 17:41:16 GMT by Zemgus

Hanako Ikezawa
N7

Scribbles

Fan from 2003 - 2020

Posts: 22,210 Likes: 29,850

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 18:00:37 GMT via mobile Cyberstrike, NotN7, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2022 18:00:37 GMT

Nov 16, 2022 17:10:45 GMT Cyberstrike said:

Let me ask this simple question:

Why should I be forced to play yet another"morally gray anti-hero and lawful evil type of characters" just to make you happy?

That wouldn't make me happy. I would prefer to have options... which Andromeda didn't have.

You had more options as Ryder than Shepard.

Iakus
N7

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,748 Likes: 48,910

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 18:05:06 GMT Zemgus, dmc1001, and 5 more like this

Quote

Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2022 18:05:06 GMT

That wouldn't make me happy. I would prefer to have options... which Andromeda didn't have.

You had more options as Ryder than Shepard.

I tried a variety of options with Ryder over the course of the game. They all felt pretty bland tbh. Nothing particularly noble or psychopathic, I felt I had access to the emotional range of an 80s action-hero.

Honestly, the Inquisitor in DAI had a greater range of options.

Hanako Ikezawa
N7

Scribbles

Fan from 2003 - 2020

Posts: 22,210 Likes: 29,850

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 18:09:15 GMT via mobile Cyberstrike and Unicephalon 40-D like this

Quote

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2022 18:09:15 GMT

Nov 16, 2022 18:05:06 GMT Iakus said:

You had more options as Ryder than Shepard.

I tried a variety of options with Ryder over the course of the game. They all felt pretty bland tbh. Nothing particularly noble or psychopathic, I felt I had access to the emotional range of an 80s action-hero.

Honestly, the Inquisitor in DAI had a greater range of options.

Being like the Inquisitor is a good thing, since they had more and better options than Warden or Hawke.

themikefest
N7

♨ Retired

Prime Posts: 21,655
Prime Likes: 15,426
Posts: 14,541 Likes: 23,635

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 18:10:53 GMT Zemgus, abedsbrother, and 7 more like this

Quote

Post by themikefest on Nov 16, 2022 18:10:53 GMT

That wouldn't make me happy. I would prefer to have options... which Andromeda didn't have.

You had more options as Ryder than Shepard.

Really?

Did Ryder have the option to not recruit a squadmate? No.
Did Ryder have the option to use squadmates powers in combat? No.
Did Ryder have the option to punch a squadmate/reporter/Admiral? No
Did Ryder have the option to upgrade their ship? No.
Did Ryder have the option having squadmate(s) live or die? No

Elizabeth Nancy Shepard - Earthborn/soldier/ruthless Humanity #1
I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite playthrough in ME
Carolina Panthers(0-2) at Seattle Seahawks(1-1) Sept 24 405pm CBS
#13Alabama Crimson Tide(2-1) vs Ole Miss Rebels(3-0) Sept 23 330pm CBS
If you see a soldier or veteran, shake their hand and thank them for their service

ahglock
N5

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,849 Likes: 3,450

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 19:10:54 GMT Iakus and dmc1001 like this

Quote

Post by ahglock on Nov 16, 2022 19:10:54 GMT

Nov 14, 2022 16:32:49 GMT Iakus said:

Nov 14, 2022 5:58:53 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

When Alec was working with SAM under the Alliance it was illegal. That’s what got him dishonorably discharged and Scott and Sara blacklisted. After that he continued his research, reaching out to people like the ones we see, and eventually the Mysterious Benefactor approached Alec with the offer to join the Andromeda Initiative and continue his research.
The true potential of this particular SAM was kept under wraps, but the others were allowed since they were extremely shackled.

I suspect Alec's work with the AI was still illegal, but the Benefactor was willing to keep it under wraps and not tell the Council

The more I think about it I suspect all the AI for the Andromeda initiative was illegal. AI were illegal. Research into them for 4 companies was not, sort of like how bio weapons are illegal but companies research possible disease vectors for "defense" against them. So I suspect you could research into AI but could not build one. The AI built them.

ahglock
N5

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,849 Likes: 3,450

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 19:12:38 GMT Zemgus and wright1978 like this

Quote

Post by ahglock on Nov 16, 2022 19:12:38 GMT

Nov 16, 2022 17:10:45 GMT Cyberstrike said:

Nov 7, 2022 12:16:57 GMT Zemgus said:

"Honestly, I won't address anything about issues with Ryder character, it is pretty damn clear you stubbornly want to only play as the edgelord protagonist"

I don't really like to play the role of the bland vanilla hero so you're not completely wrong. I prefer morally gray anti-heroes and lawful evil type of characters.

Let me ask this simple question:

Why should I be forced to play yet another"morally gray anti-hero and lawful evil type of characters" just to make you happy?

Because more people prefer the option to play either a paragon or a renegade over commander bland in bland town.

Zemgus
N4

Posts: 1,251 Likes: 1,951

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 19:15:50 GMT wright1978 likes this

Quote

Post by Zemgus on Nov 16, 2022 19:15:50 GMT

That wouldn't make me happy. I would prefer to have options... which Andromeda didn't have.

You had more options as Ryder than Shepard.

Cap.

Shepard had 3 different dialogue options most of the time (as well as Renegade & Paragon options). Ryder had 2 that more often than not was the same thing said slightly differently.

Last Edit: Nov 16, 2022 19:16:05 GMT by Zemgus

Hanako Ikezawa
N7

Scribbles

Fan from 2003 - 2020

Posts: 22,210 Likes: 29,850

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 19:18:54 GMT via mobile Unicephalon 40-D likes this

Quote

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2022 19:18:54 GMT

Nov 16, 2022 19:10:54 GMT ahglock said:

Nov 14, 2022 16:32:49 GMT Iakus said:

I suspect Alec's work with the AI was still illegal, but the Benefactor was willing to keep it under wraps and not tell the Council

The more I think about it I suspect all the AI for the Andromeda initiative was illegal. AI were illegal. Research into them for 4 companies was not, sort of like how bio weapons are illegal but companies research possible disease vectors for "defense" against them. So I suspect you could research into AI but could not build one. The AI built them.

Synthetic Insights built them too. That’s why the indentured servitude broker was trying to sell the Quarian to them because they are skilled AI programmers.

ahglock
N5

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,849 Likes: 3,450

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 19:33:51 GMT

Quote

Post by ahglock on Nov 16, 2022 19:33:51 GMT

Nov 16, 2022 19:18:54 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Nov 16, 2022 19:10:54 GMT ahglock said:

The more I think about it I suspect all the AI for the Andromeda initiative was illegal. AI were illegal. Research into them for 4 companies was not, sort of like how bio weapons are illegal but companies research possible disease vectors for "defense" against them. So I suspect you could research into AI but could not build one. The AI built them.

Synthetic Insights built them too. That’s why the indentured servitude broker was trying to sell the Quarian to them because they are skilled AI programmers.

I kind of doubt they were really fully built outside of lab tests. Every interaction about actual AI is that they are illegal, you never see any AI that aren't either Geth or illegal. If they were a fully built item they would exist in the setting, they don't. We know 4 companies are allowed to do research, but with the lack of any AI I think the intent is they are like bio labs, something is built in a constrained environment to see how it works and that is it. Research from it may prove useful in building VI but there just weren't any AI outside geth and rogue AI that you kill.

Iakus
N7

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,748 Likes: 48,910

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 16, 2022 22:47:21 GMT ahglock likes this

Quote

Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2022 22:47:21 GMT

Nov 16, 2022 19:33:51 GMT ahglock said:

Nov 16, 2022 19:18:54 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Synthetic Insights built them too. That’s why the indentured servitude broker was trying to sell the Quarian to them because they are skilled AI programmers.

I kind of doubt they were really fully built outside of lab tests. Every interaction about actual AI is that they are illegal, you never see any AI that aren't either Geth or illegal. If they were a fully built item they would exist in the setting, they don't. We know 4 companies are allowed to do research, but with the lack of any AI I think the intent is they are like bio labs, something is built in a constrained environment to see how it works and that is it. Research from it may prove useful in building VI but there just weren't any AI outside geth and rogue AI that you kill.

According to the codex, a few highly shackled AI exist for study. With no networking capability at all. They are kept highly isolated, though. They certainly couldn't be stuck in a person's brain.

hulluliini
N3

Posts: 469 Likes: 876

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 17, 2022 8:32:31 GMT

Quote

Post by hulluliini on Nov 17, 2022 8:32:31 GMT

Hmm... Starkid does say that it tried something similar in the past and that it failed.

The zha / zha'til wasn't a creation of the Reapers. It was just some race that decided to integrate their own AI with themselves. Like SAM. Except the AI rebelled. If you think about SAM, and how it can control Ryder's body, you run into some dangerous territory. Even if SAM itself never rebelled, other versions might be different.

StarBrat did say that attempts at Synthesis failed in the past. I didn't take it to mean that a green wave covered the galaxy but that there was a failure to get to the point where it was possible. IOW, their was not enough galactic cooperation for it to work. EDIT: This assumes we could take Synthesis as a choice at face value.

According to the wiki, it was the Reapers who converted/corrupted the zha'til so we don't know if the zha'til would ever have turned on their masters without Reaper influence.

(◔‿◔)

dmc1001
N7

Biotic Booty

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,934 Likes: 17,649

Fears for ME5. Obviously there may be spoilers! Nov 18, 2022 0:56:18 GMT

Quote

Post by dmc1001 on Nov 18, 2022 0:56:18 GMT

Nov 17, 2022 8:32:31 GMT hulluliini said: