Sandetiger
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beez nuts
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Post by Sandetiger on Oct 30, 2023 4:15:30 GMT
I think my #1 fear is that they'll try to capitalize on fandom nostalgia in ways that aren't good from a narrative standpoint -- like bringing Shepard back as a playable character or advisor type. I'd deeply, sincerely prefer that Shepard died at the end of ME3. I don't want to open Shepard's story up again, I'm very comfortable with the trilogy remaining synonymous to Shepard's story, and it would make me unhappy if they upended that narrative closure.
I also hold a certain amount of trepidation for:
- Time travel plot device - Multiverse plot device - Previous trilogy party members returning (I'd be willing to give some leeway for Liara, Grunt, and possibly Samara and Wrex re: time jumps) - Andromeda not being referenced / included (which I think is unlikely considering Gamble is at the helm) - A return to the binary Paragon/Renegade morality system; I preferred the MEA system and would like that improved upon - Cerberus returning in any capacity - Leviathans being used as a Big Bad - Reapers 2.0 being used as a Big Bad - Revived Protheans and their imperial ambitions being sed as a Big Bad - Rachni armies as a Big Bad - Angry krogan incite a Krogan Rebellions 2.0 as a Big Bad - Massive open world maps with poor content optimization and extremely spread out fetch quests - Excessive fan service (ie showing Tali on her house on Rannoch) in the name of giving Fans TM "closure" (it's not actually closure lol) - Attempt to canonize all three major endings at once; would prefer they just develop a BioWare Canon TM, because otherwise it's just a mess - Shepard's Child TM showing up - Playing as a Shepard clone
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Post by bierkrug on Oct 30, 2023 8:35:57 GMT
- Time travel plot device - Multiverse plot device Mass Effect: Marvel Edition. I wouldn't mind meeting old friends again though.
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Post by hulluliini on Oct 30, 2023 9:28:45 GMT
I think my #1 fear is that they'll try to capitalize on fandom nostalgia in ways that aren't good from a narrative standpoint -- like bringing Shepard back as a playable character or advisor type. I'd deeply, sincerely prefer that Shepard died at the end of ME3. I don't want to open Shepard's story up again, I'm very comfortable with the trilogy remaining synonymous Shepard's story, and it would make me unhappy if they upended that narrative closure. I also hold a certain amount of trepidation for:- Leviathans being used as a Big Bad Why? They are terrifying.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Oct 30, 2023 10:16:05 GMT
I think my #1 fear is that they'll try to capitalize on fandom nostalgia in ways that aren't good from a narrative standpoint -- like bringing Shepard back as a playable character or advisor type. I'd deeply, sincerely prefer that Shepard died at the end of ME3. I don't want to open Shepard's story up again, I'm very comfortable with the trilogy remaining synonymous Shepard's story, and it would make me unhappy if they upended that narrative closure. Word. And High *5*. Shepard is dead, död, gone. Move on from the trilogy, do not forget it though (even though I would wish so for 2 and 3 these days...). And as last point, jump forward in time from the trilogy.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 30, 2023 12:54:14 GMT
I agree about the the multiverse plot point. God, I am so sick of multiple universes in science fiction.
Name a better way to trivialize any sort of concern for character mortality, since you can just go an pluck an exact copy of your fan favorite out of a parallel reality.
BioWare has already trivialized the scale of the universe by having our protagonists just casually flying over to Andromeda on space magic ODDSY drives, I think the introduction of a mulitverse would be the final "hack writing" nail in the franchise's coffin.
Really, the only 'alternate dimension' plot I will accept is a false vacuum decay and the existential threat it would pose.
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Sandetiger
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beez nuts
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Post by Sandetiger on Oct 30, 2023 14:43:50 GMT
I think my #1 fear is that they'll try to capitalize on fandom nostalgia in ways that aren't good from a narrative standpoint -- like bringing Shepard back as a playable character or advisor type. I'd deeply, sincerely prefer that Shepard died at the end of ME3. I don't want to open Shepard's story up again, I'm very comfortable with the trilogy remaining synonymous Shepard's story, and it would make me unhappy if they upended that narrative closure. I also hold a certain amount of trepidation for:- Leviathans being used as a Big Bad Why? They are terrifying. I have hated the very existence of the Leviathan as the creators of the Reapers since I first played MELE in the waning weeks of 2021. 0/10 absolutely awful story writing choice, where the DLC's vibe and ambience was amazing up until the last 10 minutes where you get this incredibly stupid lore dump on the Reaper origin. I'd prefer they just fall into obscurity atp. I'd MUCH rather lean into the idea of other kaiju people surviving the cycles of extinction, if they're going to go that route. If the Thorian survived... what else...?
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Post by Sandetiger on Oct 30, 2023 14:49:13 GMT
I think my #1 fear is that they'll try to capitalize on fandom nostalgia in ways that aren't good from a narrative standpoint -- like bringing Shepard back as a playable character or advisor type. I'd deeply, sincerely prefer that Shepard died at the end of ME3. I don't want to open Shepard's story up again, I'm very comfortable with the trilogy remaining synonymous Shepard's story, and it would make me unhappy if they upended that narrative closure. Word. And High *5*. Shepard is dead, död, gone. Move on from the trilogy, do not forget it though (even though I would wish so for 2 and 3 these days...). And as last point, jump forward in time from the trilogy. Even if Shepard DIDN't die, like... damn. Do you really want Shepard to be subjected to another Save The Galaxy scenario? Haven't they given enough? I would definitely prefer a timeskip if we're going into the Milky Way again.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Oct 30, 2023 15:09:36 GMT
I think my #1 fear is that they'll try to capitalize on fandom nostalgia in ways that aren't good from a narrative standpoint -- like bringing Shepard back as a playable character or advisor type. I'd deeply, sincerely prefer that Shepard died at the end of ME3. I don't want to open Shepard's story up again, I'm very comfortable with the trilogy remaining synonymous Shepard's story, and it would make me unhappy if they upended that narrative closure. I also hold a certain amount of trepidation for:- Leviathans being used as a Big Bad Why? They are terrifying.
Yes, but also it's very hard to Lovecraft style cosmic horror right in movies and TV shows. The Leviathans exist and that they created the AI that created the Reapers and they were created in their own image and that they have mind control powers. Revealing the origin of the Reapers was a huge mistake IMHO it took away a lot of menace and threat I think they worked a lot better when we didn't know anything about where they came from. It made them more a mysterious like a force of nature like a cosmic wild fire.
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 30, 2023 16:23:37 GMT
Leviathans are just fleshy reapers. I'd be quite disappointed if the new big bad was again another mind controlling squid - but this time not Metal.
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Post by cmdr Chobankovich on Oct 31, 2023 14:32:16 GMT
How about a compromise. Shepard returns as a mentor to our new protagonist with a big enough time skip to make something new and different.
That way we can have both.
Honestly my biggest fear is that BioWare will continue to force the open world (maybe even copy Starfield) and the quirky, marvel writing with jokes and sarcasm every 5 seconds instead of the handcrafted levels, great characters and serious approach to writing that made the series great.
But above all the open world. I can't stand it anymore.
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Sandetiger
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beez nuts
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Post by Sandetiger on Oct 31, 2023 17:26:23 GMT
People may call that nostalgia, but I feel that I invested a bit of myself into character of Shepard over the course of the three ME games, so returning back to the series as Shepard, is also returning as that bit of myself. That is indeed how self-inserts work. And I think that's really the major draw people have to Shepard: it's not that they're an awesome character, because realistically there's very little characterization that goes into them, but they're a pretty effective blank slate that lets people "live" out an epic power fantasy in an epic storyline while interacting with actual characters with actual history and actual characterization. iunno, it gets a little parasocial imo I really want to meet new characters and new storylines. Dragon Age does it well, and I believe Mass Effect can, too.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 1, 2023 22:38:21 GMT
That Bioware will canonize the synthesis ending. I had the impression that they view this as the ideal finale, with being "hardest to get". I see it more as the greatest violation of bodily autonomy in forever. I have no interest in the green crap. I view it as the ending Bioware put in for comedians to use for their opening act to give their audience a good laugh. BUT. I would buy the game to have a good laugh. With everyone having the green glow crap, they would save a lot of credits on their power bill since they wouldn't need lights to see anything in the dark. If the teaser is to be believed, it appears green doesn't exist. I do agree with your last sentence. I like my dna. I don't need some Commander dumba** to have it forcibly changed Word. And High *5*. Shepard is dead, död, gone. Move on from the trilogy, do not forget it though (even though I would wish so for 2 and 3 these days...). And as last point, jump forward in time from the trilogy. Even if Shepard DIDN't die, like... damn. Do you really want Shepard to be subjected to another Save The Galaxy scenario? Haven't they given enough? I would definitely prefer a timeskip if we're going into the Milky Way again. Does it have to be another save the galaxy scenario? Here's a scenario I posted. How long a time skip would you want? If the skip is far enough in the future to not have anyone from the trilogy showing up, I would be ok with that Leviathans are just fleshy reapers. I'd be quite disappointed if the new big bad was again another mind controlling squid - but this time not Metal. If Levy the loser is the big bad, I could see it happening far into the future. We know of the three seen in the dlc. I would put warnings for no traveling in the system. If Levy decides to get ambitious, we know where it lives. Just pull a krogan launching asteroids at the planet. How about a compromise. Shepard returns as a mentor to our new protagonist with a big enough time skip to make something new and different. I'm not sure I would want that. It would depend on the character we're playing. If the new character isn't a duck who lacks any quack, I might be ok with the mentor thing. Instead of doing the mentor thing, what if Shepard was the human councilor or Fleet Commander for the Alliance?
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Post by General Mahad on Nov 1, 2023 23:33:15 GMT
My fear is that ME5 will end up feeling like Citadel or worse, a marvel movie.
Post-War Milky Way should be full of chaos and unstable governments; so naturally a power vacuum for all sorts of tyrants from all species to rise. I hope BioWare shows us that the immediate aftermath of the Reaper War is not sunshine and roses.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 2, 2023 0:16:51 GMT
My fear is that ME5 will end up feeling like Citadel or worse, a marvel movie.
My fear is that it will end up more like a Martin Scorsese movie: an ultra pretentious serious grimdark that is a really fucking boring piece of shit about bunch of old white guys complaining about "how it used to be back in the 'good ole days' and yelling at young people" that will be just a huge waste of time, talent, and money.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 2, 2023 1:09:15 GMT
My fear about ME5 is that I never played ME4 to know what stuff might be imported into ME5.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 2, 2023 16:15:53 GMT
My fear is that ME5 will end up feeling like Citadel or worse, a marvel movie. Post-War Milky Way should be full of chaos and unstable governments; so naturally a power vacuum for all sorts of tyrants from all species to rise. I hope BioWare shows us that the immediate aftermath of the Reaper War is not sunshine and roses. Exactly. A power struggle between surviving species and/or disparate government factions picking up in the aftermath of the Reaper invasion would make for a much better story. There would be ample opportunity for nuance in the narrative to explore dilemmas that are morally grey. If done properly this scenario would allow for engaging roleplaying. Is your character an Alliance loyalist? Striving for the ideals of intra-galactic cooperation even when resources would undoubtedly be stretched to the breaking point for many species post war? Do you seek to honor old allies even when they might be exploiting those lesser races around them? Do you side with the more 'volatile' elements of the galaxy if it means you can get things done? Etc. The point is an internally based antagonist, one brought about by the horrors of war and the harsh reality of rebuilding amid power vacuums; an enemy that might even have sympathetic motivations for doing what they are doing; is miles ahead of having another existential threat showing up, this one even more powerful than the one that came before. That type of juvenile Dragonball Z level writing needs to be shoved out the nearest airlock.
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Post by Phantom on Nov 2, 2023 17:05:06 GMT
Well I have idea of cameo missions for both the Ryder twins and Shepard. Of course it would con current to both of them during the MET. With the Ryder Twins, You get to see and use them before ME:A without the S.A.M. and they will be saving the Project from a new bad guy (no they have no positive ties to Cerberus and they would be used instead because many fans are suffering from Cerberus burnout)
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Post by themikefest on Nov 2, 2023 18:51:08 GMT
Well I have idea of cameo missions for both the Ryder twins and Shepard. Of course it would con current to both of them during the MET. With the Ryder Twins, You get to see and use them before ME:A without the S.A.M. and they will be saving the Project from a new bad guy (no they have no positive ties to Cerberus and they would be used instead because many fans are suffering from Cerberus burnout) It's good they wouldn't have any ties with Cerberus. Don't need ducks who lack any quack. There is no Cerberus burnout. If it wasn't for them, the reapers would have harvested the galaxy. The next game should have them rise to their former glory. ALL HAIL TIM Since you brought both up, it's too bad MEA didn't happen after ME3. In ME4, Shepard is tasked with a mission. Alex approaches Shepard if he/she wouldn't mind having his kids tag along to gain some training/experience out in the field. On selected missions, the kids can join Shepard.
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Post by Phantom on Nov 2, 2023 19:34:58 GMT
Well I have idea of cameo missions for both the Ryder twins and Shepard. Of course it would con current to both of them during the MET. With the Ryder Twins, You get to see and use them before ME:A without the S.A.M. and they will be saving the Project from a new bad guy (no they have no positive ties to Cerberus and they would be used instead because many fans are suffering from Cerberus burnout) It's good they wouldn't have any ties with Cerberus. Don't need ducks who lack any quack. There is no Cerberus burnout. If it wasn't for them, the reapers would have harvested the galaxy. The next game should have them rise to their former glory. ALL HAIL TIM Since you brought both up, it's too bad MEA didn't happen after ME3. In ME4, Shepard is tasked with a mission. Alex approaches Shepard if he/she wouldn't mind having his kids tag along to gain some training/experience out in the field. On selected missions, the kids can join Shepard. We don't have Cerberus Burnout others do have it. True that Cerberus did that. Personally I would love to see more of them. If I was doing a con-current trilogy, I would explore their relationship with the System Alliance and Cerberus better. One of new Factions would be Black Talons and their tech is base on Reaper Berserker VonNeumann probes from a previous cycle. They are a fully functional Military with opening for any species and factions. I know that you are a shepard fan and several others. Also I do know that there are fans of the Ryders twins. So I am in the camp of New PC while respecting both Ryder Twins and Shepard fans.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 6, 2023 13:27:10 GMT
The point is an internally based antagonist, one brought about by the horrors of war and the harsh reality of rebuilding amid power vacuums; an enemy that might even have sympathetic motivations for doing what they are doing; is miles ahead of having another existential threat showing up, this one even more powerful than the one that came before. That type of juvenile Dragonball Z level writing needs to be shoved out the nearest airlock. Well that sounds like another iteration of Cerberus, please do not give Bioware such ideas
I think I can sympathise in terms of being tired of a specific trope, but then the "somewhat relatable bad guy" trope isn't exactly new or original. A big existential threat just seems like a guarantee for a more epic, larger adventure than a "smaller" story about some local feud. Also, what kind of new, original plot point would such antagonist offer? Building a huge army and conquer everything? Not exactly new. Build a fleet and just bomb everyone from the orbit in revenge for something? Same. Nuke some stars/planets with some exotic devices as a space terrorist? Well, that's a lot less stuff to do on the ground, I guess. Establish own colony with own rules and become an independent ruler/king/emperor not beholden to the Alliance/Earth? Oh no, the horror, not our democracy!
Every time I read comments in the line of "we want smaller scope, smaller stories" I really just feel sad. We've got space travel, relatively old established civilizations, ancient secrets and that just seems perfect for some epic space opera with huge stakes, big mysteries and elaborate "big character" interplay. There also seem to be enough big potential threats that aren't Reaper-level, yet still threating enough to keep the Mass Effect's main theme of cooperation, reaching common understanding and overcoming seemingly unsurmountable differences in the face of potential extinction, where the latter serves as a sort of a canvas to paint all the smaller/more personal stories onto while offering a big, impressive picture.
Well Cerberus suddenly became the Sith Empire in ME 3, with a naval & espionage presence that rivaled multiple galactic superpowers, so I don't really think you could qualify them as a 'smaller scope antagonist'. And BioWare already drained the well when it comes to ancient crisis coming to threaten all life with the Reapers in the original trilogy. Their cycles have been culling the galaxy for over a billion years, I think a coincidental discovery of something even more ancient and even more powerful than the Reapers would not only be a copout but would also trivialize the original trilogy. Just like how Dragonball Z or the sequel trilogy for Star Wars trivialized their former stories & characters by having an exponentially more powerful villain show up who makes all the sacrifices the heroes have made up until that point seem rather pointless. And a smaller in scope narrative doesn't mean that we would have to confined to a single planet or star system. Despite what BioWare tried to do in Andromeda space is actually very, very, very, very big. And on that particular point I think future games should try and rebuild the guardrails concerning the size of the universe and simple logistics against the damage that the space magic ODDSY drives did to the setting rather than just trying to go bigger and bigger each time. Honestly, I wish the Mass Effect setting was more like the Traveler setting when it comes to keeping things contained. Something like this: Traveller Map would have made for a more concise setting for the first trilogy in my opinion. You could still have the threat of the Reapers and all the aliens from the first three games but it would have been self contained and left a much larger galaxy to explore for future titles. This would have kept the reality of 'Space is Big' firmly in place and BioWare wouldn't have had to jump the shark and send us all the way to Andromeda.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2023 17:08:35 GMT
And BioWare already drained the well when it comes to ancient crisis coming to threaten all life with the Reapers in the original trilogy. Their cycles have been culling the galaxy for over a billion years, I think a coincidental discovery of something even more ancient and even more powerful than the Reapers would not only be a copout but would also trivialize the original trilogy. Just like how Dragonball Z or the sequel trilogy for Star Wars trivialized their former stories & characters by having an exponentially more powerful villain show up who makes all the sacrifices the heroes have made up until that point seem rather pointless. Not to mention the Andromeda Initiative trivialized the Reapers themselves. I mean, a billion years of cycles, and these hairless monkeys managed to lead a jailbreak of their trap barely a generation after leaving their home solar system!
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 8, 2023 18:13:11 GMT
And BioWare already drained the well when it comes to ancient crisis coming to threaten all life with the Reapers in the original trilogy. Their cycles have been culling the galaxy for over a billion years, I think a coincidental discovery of something even more ancient and even more powerful than the Reapers would not only be a copout but would also trivialize the original trilogy. Just like how Dragonball Z or the sequel trilogy for Star Wars trivialized their former stories & characters by having an exponentially more powerful villain show up who makes all the sacrifices the heroes have made up until that point seem rather pointless. Not to mention the Andromeda Initiative trivialized the Reapers themselves. I mean, a billion years of cycles, and these hairless monkeys managed to lead a jailbreak of their trap barely a generation after leaving their home solar system! Yeah. While the idea of desperate, last ditch contingency plan to survive the Reapers by fleeing the Milky Way sounds good in theory in practice BioWare managed to make the Reapers; and all future antagonists into a non threat. If the space magic ODDSY drives can jet you off over 2.5 million light years in only 6 centuries, all without needing to be discharged or refueled, then you have effectively created a society that is omnipresent. What antagonist could possibly be a challenge to our heroes now? Super mega uber Reapers show up in Mass Effect 6? Just fly off to the ends of an infinite universe. There's no way they can stop you and no possible way they can hunt down everyone with such a drive.
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Post by jamiecotc on Nov 8, 2023 19:03:11 GMT
As I have no expectations for ME5, I have no fears either.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 8, 2023 19:36:12 GMT
Trailer has me having new fears:
We'll be forced to be some kind of criminal element ie GTA or Cyberpunk. I'm fine with a good job character doing questionable things (soldier/specter/ pathfinder) or a neutral character (Courier) but being a criminal carries with it a whole lot of other baggage that makes the archetype not fun to play.
We're having a return to paragon/ renegade morality and the trilogies limited role playing/ player agency. Apparently the symbols were in the coat, at least one of them. Much preferred Andromedas approach which led to a far more nuanced and deep character with Rydrr then Shepard.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,884 Likes: 49,344
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,884
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2023 22:47:35 GMT
Trailer has me having new fears: We'll be forced to be some kind of criminal element ie GTA or Cyberpunk. I'm fine with a good job character doing questionable things (soldier/specter/ pathfinder) or a neutral character (Courier) but being a criminal carries with it a whole lot of other baggage that makes the archetype not fun to play. Or Mass Effect 2, where we're railroaded into working for TIM because reasons.
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