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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 6, 2022 22:33:54 GMT
I think the war will end in this game, though a large part of that being not just the actions of the protagonists but also how unlike the previous invasion the Qun is divided this time. Two thirds of the Triumvirate are seemingly against the Antaam’s invasion. Then of course who knows what actions Solas will do that could disrupt the war. Or if there will be other threats like the Evanuris that affect it.
That said, with how big this conflict is now I definitely want it to be the main focus of the game while Solas is more in the background (similar to how the Blight was in DAO or Corypheus specifically in DAI). Which seems likely with how powerful he is supposed to be.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Dec 6, 2022 22:38:01 GMT
One of the things I fear is the presence of an over abundance of Marvel/Whedon-esque quipping in serious situations. It’s more cringing to me than amusing and I grew tired of it about six years ago. I’m somewhat on board with some more brutal Qunari commanders if they play it off as the Antaam requiring the influence of the priesthood to restrain these impulses. Ehhh I'm getting tired of gritty try hardy stories of the past. Learn to crack a joke every now and then! (Yes I'm still mad that we can't play a sarcastic character anymore. > ) Sure you can play a sarcastic character. You don't have auto dialogue speaking for you anymore without you choosing a dialogue option but the Inquisitor had plenty of sarcastic responses. Jokes and sarcasm have always been part of Dragon Age, all the way back in DAO. Alistair had dopey humor as a coping mechanism, Morrigan used cruel jibes to mock because that's how she was raised, Oghren had gross humor because he was a drunk, Sten had deadpan and "fish out of water" humor etc. I think it feels different now because DAO (and media in general at the time) had different personality types showing off different types of humor and it was used intelligently to service character moments and relationships or larger narratives, whereas now it's the same brand of rapid fire snark, all the time, without it really servicing characterization or situations, with no one really having a distinct voice from other characters. But we can still look at it this way, given how many stories about the Crows we got until now (Tevinter Nights + the short stories on the site), we've had different portrayals of different types of personalities. These 2 characters were just the Whedon-esque types but we had more serious types previously, as well. I'm more skeptical of the Qunari, to be honest.
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Post by phoray on Dec 6, 2022 22:43:10 GMT
A qunari that others amongst them are brainwashed to show fear? Well, then they lost a valuable tool when the Qunari embraced their more traditional training and dropped him like a hot rock to be executed as they returned back to a higher ranking bully. I do also hope/ think based on the time skip that DA:D itself might take place over several years for its plot rather then the one we saw for Inquisition and Origins. Is it 8 years that's passed now since Trespasser?
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Post by colfoley on Dec 6, 2022 22:46:03 GMT
A qunari that others amongst them are brainwashed to show fear? Well, then they lost a valuable tool when the Qunari embraced their more traditional training and dropped him like a hot rock to be executed as they returned back to a higher ranking bully. I do also hope/ think based on the time skip that DA:D itself might take place over several years for its plot rather then the one we saw for Inquisition and Origins. Is it 8 years that's passed now since Trespasser? At least that is what the last round of short stories indicates. THey might've decided to increase that out even more by the time we get to the actual game itself.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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Post by bshep on Dec 7, 2022 4:27:53 GMT
I am okay with a time skip for DA: Dreawolf, think it would fit the setting quite well.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 8:49:27 GMT
A choice that's part of the critpath needs to have this level of detail in it, the Qun alliance in Iron Buill's quest was never going to be like this because it was optional content. Then again, the Hawke/Warden choice wasn't very detailed either, so there's a not so fortunate example of that that already existing. This was my point, though. The Hawke/Warden choice may have been significant for the player personally but there were no world changing consequences as a result. Even the choice about the southern mages or the Divine isn't really as impactful as it first appears. If you read between the lines, the epilogue to Trespasser is pretty much reverting everything to normal, with the Chantry aligned Circle of Magi under Vivienne with the political upper hand and the College of Enchanters (if it even exists) just a small group on the periphery of society, tolerated but without much influence. Fast forward a few decades and the codices would just speak of a time of unrest during the first years of Divine Victoria's reign (applies to any of them), after which stability was restored. Individual rulers aren't as important as the countries that they govern, so Ferelden and Orlais are still independent nations with a degree of enmity for one another, no matter who we appointed to the leadership. Our choices cannot have world changing consequences without consistency in them, so the end result is the same, even if the means of achieving it varies. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like the end of ME3, when those choices cannot be carried forward with any degree of continuity, so one of them has to be canon and the others disregarded or explained away in some fashion.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 9:02:09 GMT
To me this implies something has been wrong a while, even before Trespasser, that even their lowest interchangeable military units were allowed to have so much of a personality. To be honest, I think the change was in the lead writer. Most of the team that originally came up with the concept of the Qunari have left Bioware. It was Three Trees to Midnight that first highlighted this change to the Qunari, with the explanation that the priesthood were no longer guiding them. That there could be such a schism with Par Vollen never made any sense to me. Rasaan travels with the Arishok to ensure no great deviation from the teaching, yet apparently despite what happened in Kirkwall in her absence, has left his side once again. Was she the rogue element that led to the Antaam breaking away? Presumably the lesser priesthood would travel with each unit and there is always the Ben'Hassrath. Their purpose was specifically to watch for subversives and deal with them. If officers in the Antaam seemed about to mutiny, the secret police should have dealt with it. Now in TTtM, a member of the Ben'Hassrath had been sent to check on what was happening with Bas'taad and ultimately removed him, so it may be that nothing has actually changed and I don't think we should take anything at face value from what has been shown in TN and the short stories.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 7, 2022 10:51:15 GMT
I am okay with a time skip for DA: Dreawolf, think it would fit the setting quite well. I hope they skip to a time when the qun war is over. And DAD beginns with the after war situation. I don't want this war in DAD. I have no interest in it.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 7, 2022 13:43:16 GMT
But I want to fight Qunari and Venatori alike.
If there's a war, there's a pretext for me to fight both!
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 13:53:51 GMT
Here's a thought. Maybe one of our tasks will be to assist the Ben'Hassrath agent or the Crow assassin (choose one) to take out the Butcher.
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Post by phoray on Dec 7, 2022 16:15:33 GMT
Here's a thought. Maybe one of our tasks will be to assist the Ben'Hassrath agent or the Crow assassin (choose one) to take out the Butcher. I'd go Crow, no doubts about it
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Post by Grog Muffins on Dec 7, 2022 16:26:04 GMT
Here's a thought. Maybe one of our tasks will be to assist the Ben'Hassrath agent or the Crow assassin (choose one) to take out the Butcher. Why would a Ben'Hasrath need the help of a scrub player character to knock off the Butcher, though? The Ben'Hassrath that killed Bastaar didn't need anyone's help to do it and, supposedly, if there were other commanders like these two, there'd be Ben'Hassrath somewhere close by, watching, waiting to see if there's anything they can do to have them re-educated or if it would be better to kill them outright. If the Butcher ends up being like Saarath from Trespasser, I can see why you'd need more people taking him down, I suppose, but Saarath wasn't created by the Antaam. Would the Antaam even have access to the Viddasalla's research?
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 19:33:54 GMT
Why would a Ben'Hasrath need the help of a scrub player character to knock off the Butcher, though? It depends on the Ben'Hassrath involved, their personal abilities and what their orders might be. Perhaps they are meant to achieve their goal without revealing their part in it. Or maybe it is designed as a test of the PC. After all, Gatt used the Inquisition/Bull's Chargers to deal with the Venatori on the Storm Coast, even though according to Par Vollen there were 100 operatives on the Qunari ship. Seems odd they didn't make landfall and deal with the Venatori themselves. However, it appears to have been more a test of Bull's loyalty and the trustworthiness of the Inquisitor. So, our new PC successfully takes out the Butcher and the Ben'Hassrath are willing to work with you further. Charter admits they no more than anyone else about Solas' movements, so it is an alliance not to be casually tossed aside. I've pointed out before that, if they heard about what happened at Charter's meeting, they may be wary about working with the Inquisition because their security appears compromised. However, if the PC can carry out a covert assassination successfully, they might be willing to do business.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2022 20:36:56 GMT
Here's a thought. Maybe one of our tasks will be to assist the Ben'Hassrath agent or the Crow assassin (choose one) to take out the Butcher. If push came to shove probably would choose Ben’Hassrath though since having them on our side might be better in ending the war with as few casualties as possible. The Crows can just be hired later if needed.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 20:53:51 GMT
The Crows can just be hired later if needed. This is true, although I have to admit I found the idea of contracts in the short story puzzling. The Talons got together specifically to discuss the danger presented by the Qunari and it is not in their interests to have Antiva occupied by the Qun, so I would have thought it would be a combined campaign, co-ordinated by their leaders, with their subordinates being directly ordered into the fray, rather like that major operation Zevran told us about. Still, maybe they just want to keep up appearances or something with those lower down the pecking order. Now the Antaam have invaded, I must admit to being curious how the writers manage the narrative. We have constantly been told that the reason no one dares to invade Antiva is because of the Crows but Sten was rather dismissive of the ability of one of their operatives who had a contract on Par Vollen, so maybe the deal they tried to make with the false Talon was genuinely to keep civilian casualties low rather than any fear of the Crows themselves. That, of course, could be a mistake by the Antaam. One operative might not have been able to fool the Qun but when the entire organisation is threatened that is surely a different matter. Mind you, can you remember when the Crows were first formed? Was it before or after the Steel Age? If before, then they couldn't prevent the Qun overrunning Antiva last time round.
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Post by phoray on Dec 7, 2022 21:16:29 GMT
gervaise21 The Steel Age (6:00–6:99) is the sixth named Age in the history of Thedas.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2022 21:27:46 GMT
The Crows can just be hired later if needed. This is true, although I have to admit I found the idea of contracts in the short story puzzling. The Talons got together specifically to discuss the danger presented by the Qunari and it is not in their interests to have Antiva occupied by the Qun, so I would have thought it would be a combined campaign, co-ordinated by their leaders, with their subordinates being directly ordered into the fray, rather like that major operation Zevran told us about. Still, maybe they just want to keep up appearances or something with those lower down the pecking order. Now the Antaam have invaded, I must admit to being curious how the writers manage the narrative. We have constantly been told that the reason no one dares to invade Antiva is because of the Crows but Sten was rather dismissive of the ability of one of their operatives who had a contract on Par Vollen, so maybe the deal they tried to make with the false Talon was genuinely to keep civilian casualties low rather than any fear of the Crows themselves. That, of course, could be a mistake by the Antaam. One operative might not have been able to fool the Qun but when the entire organisation is threatened that is surely a different matter. Mind you, can you remember when the Crows were first formed? Was it before or after the Steel Age? If before, then they couldn't prevent the Qun overrunning Antiva last time round. Yeah the fact they still need a contract to protect their people made me like the Crows even less than I already do. Don’t think the Antaam care about civilian casualties since we’ve seen them slaughtering unarmed men and women. They were around before the Steel Age, since according to the wiki one of their infamous assassinations was in 3:09. They used to be part of the Chantry (an order of monks that used gardens herbs to poison a despotic duke), so probably were formed in the Divine or Glory Ages.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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Post by bshep on Dec 7, 2022 22:50:44 GMT
I am okay with a time skip for DA: Dreawolf, think it would fit the setting quite well. I hope they skip to a time when the qun war is over. And DAD beginns with the after war situation. I don't want this war in DAD. I have no interest in it. Think it is more likely the war will be ongoing when the game starts. But I want to fight Qunari and Venatori alike. If there's a war, there's a pretext for me to fight both! Time for some live of death choice of which faction to side with. Here's a thought. Maybe one of our tasks will be to assist the Ben'Hassrath agent or the Crow assassin (choose one) to take out the Butcher. I'd go Crow, no doubts about it Me too. Fuck the qun.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 8, 2022 1:43:28 GMT
Me too. Fuck the qun. I don't want to romance the Qun!
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Post by regack on Dec 8, 2022 1:49:09 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 8, 2022 1:57:20 GMT
Me too. Fuck the qun. I don't want to romance the Qun! What if Leggy is a Viddathari like Tallis or Gatt?
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Post by smilesja on Dec 8, 2022 2:45:47 GMT
I don't want to romance the Qun! What if Leggy is a Viddathari like Tallis or Gatt? Okay...... Maybe I'll make an exception.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Dec 8, 2022 5:39:34 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 8, 2022 9:03:41 GMT
The Steel Age (6:00–6:99) is the sixth named Age in the history of Thedas. They were around before the Steel Age, since according to the wiki one of their infamous assassinations was in 3:09. They used to be part of the Chantry (an order of monks that used gardens herbs to poison a despotic duke), so probably were formed in the Divine or Glory Ages. Yes, I remembered afterwards that they were around during the 4th Blight and that was definitely before the Qun arrived the first time round. Having checked the timeline it seems the Crows failed to protect Antiva against the Qun twice, first in the Steel Age, when their excuse could have been the element of surprise by the adversary, and the second in the Storm Age when the Second Exalted March failed to prevent almost all of Antiva being conquered, so even with the assistance of the armies of the Divine, the Crows weren't able to stop them. I suppose it is possible to argue that it was a lack of co-operation between the various factions that was the problem (maybe no one put out a contract) but the fact remains that the Crows couldn't stop the Qun then, so no reason to think they would be any better now. Back then, the only person who seemed capable of putting fear into the Qunari was Yavana and her dragons. A pity Alistair killed her if that is what it takes. However, that could be another plot thread. Maybe our hero will need to find a way of calling upon the dragons to aid Antiva. That would be cool. We know it is possible from DAI. You just need the requisite knowledge and strength of mind. (I'd say, just ask the Inquisitor but not everyone drank from the Well). Alternatively, what about that girl from Dawn of the Seeker? Someone said she was made tranquil but we know how to reverse that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 8, 2022 9:12:39 GMT
The Steel Age (6:00–6:99) is the sixth named Age in the history of Thedas. They were around before the Steel Age, since according to the wiki one of their infamous assassinations was in 3:09. They used to be part of the Chantry (an order of monks that used gardens herbs to poison a despotic duke), so probably were formed in the Divine or Glory Ages. Yes, I remembered afterwards that they were around during the 4th Blight and that was definitely before the Qun arrived the first time round. Having checked the timeline it seems the Crows failed to protect Antiva against the Qun twice, first in the Steel Age, when their excuse could have been the element of surprise by the adversary, and the second in the Storm Age when the Second Exalted March failed to prevent almost all of Antiva being conquered, so even with the assistance of the armies of the Divine, the Crows weren't able to stop them. I suppose it is possible to argue that it was a lack of co-operation between the various factions that was the problem (maybe no one put out a contract) but the fact remains that the Crows couldn't stop the Qun then, so no reason to think they would be any better now. Back then, the only person who seemed capable of putting fear into the Qunari was Yavana and her dragons. A pity Alistair killed her if that is what it takes. However, that could be another plot thread. Maybe our hero will need to find a way of calling upon the dragons to aid Antiva. That would be cool. We know it is possible from DAI. You just need the requisite knowledge and strength of mind. (I'd say, just ask the Inquisitor but not everyone drank from the Well). Alternatively, what about that girl from Dawn of the Seeker? Someone said she was made tranquil but we know how to reverse that. Cassandra does also care for Avexis (hence why she was taken with the Inquisition) as is looking into safely curing Tranquility. With it being almost a decade, it is possible she found it. That would be nice to see. Easiest way though would probably be Yavana either learning the survival trick Flemeth knows or having her just survive it like Morrigan does if stabbed in Witch Hunt.
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