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Post by colfoley on Jan 3, 2024 10:57:39 GMT
1. She mispoke, more or less, and she is talking about that this plan was in the making since the Veil went up for the first time. I did say that this part was under the general comment about the game from Bioware, not Corinne's interview. So, this would mean the marketing team have got it wrong and no one on the rest of the team picked up on it. Thus, I think it was deliberate and suggests that the writing team may have been tinkering with the backstory again. 2. Given the theory that Solas awoke before in Thedas's history, namely that he is Shartan, this word choice does become a little more interesting. I've mentioned before how ridiculous the idea is that Solas could have been Shartan unless he died and was resurrected. Alternatively, perhaps he did a body sharing trick with an elf called Shartan, so when Shartan perished, the spirit of Solas/Fen'Harel, or whoever he really is (Rasaan claims Solas is not his true name), returned to his body wherever it was located. There is no doubt that Shartan was a real person (regardless of what the "scholars" suggested in WoT2) and his death is remembered by the Dalish (Dalish origin) and recorded in the Canticle of Apotheosis, although he is referred to there as the Liberator, no doubt a move by the Chantry to conceal his identity but consistent with the oral tradition of the Dalish recorded in the Canticle of Shartan where Andraste makes him her Champion of Freedom (after he saved her at the Battle of Valarian Fields). To be honest, I think that Solas is more likely the Maker who spoke to Andraste than Shartan. Let's face it, he did create the current state of Thedas and was not happy about what the rulers had done with it since then. Also, again according to the Dalish, Andraste's main emphasis was on freeing the slaves from the tyranny of Tevinter, which we know now bears great resemblance to set up in ancient times under the Evanuris, so that would be consistent with Solas, or alternatively Mythal, influencing Andraste. According to the Canticle of Andraste she called out to various gods (likely Alamarri/Avaar) to aid her people to no avail and then basically said "is anyone out there who can help me?", after which the "Maker" responded. It is entirely possible that Solas did speak to an elven slave called Shartan via the Fade and encouraged him to lead a rebellion at the same time. Of course, if there was some element of co-existence or he was Solas himself, then following his "death" he would have needed several centuries to recover and even reform his body. I hope the latter is not the case, though, as I would like to keep at least one genuine elven hero I can admire. None of this would actually contradict their assertion that they would never prove or disprove the Maker since just because the person identifying themselves as the Maker was not in fact the Creator of the ancient world, does not mean it disproves his existence. All it would do is disprove the Chantry's version of the Maker, which wouldn't be that shocking since the writers have been doing that continually both in game and in associated writings. However, I do agree that if Solas was in some way involved with Andraste's rebellion then that could account for why he has ruled out changing the ruling order by conventional means. It is also possible that he was not aware of how badly the Blight had affected the world back then, so thought it possible to improve things without dropping the Veil. The reason he woke when he did before DAI was the discovery of the ancient thaig and the bringing of red lyrium to the surface. This is the only thing that I can think of that would account for him waking when he did. His agents had already been active in the world for many years but something caused him to revive as a matter of urgency and then plan to take action when he was still weak from his slumber. I suppose it could have been because of the activation of the eluvian network but he seemed content to let Briala use it initially and so I think red lyrium was likely the driver. This might well fit with why he locked up the Evanuris in the first place. If he did it to prevent them from bringing red lyrium to the surface then his plan had been thwarted and so he needed to take drastic action to remedy the situation. Not sure which timeline they would be changing though? If its the timeline of the veil going up and everything else...well again it pretty much has to be a mis speak. Making an error of a couple hundred (or even thousand) when talking about thousands of years before your society even recorded history is somewhat explainable...but hundreds of years in the much more recent path would be a hell of a thing to miss and explain away. If we're talking about Solas waking up from his special Elven nap time then would be a little bit more interesting I suppose. At least if we're talking about peridically waking up here and there to check things out and nudge the plan along...that way both can still be true. Of course I suppose there is another explanation for this and that the marketing team was referring to Mythals plan given that Mythals joining with Flemeth...and then Solas...is far more recent then anything else.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 3, 2024 13:28:12 GMT
Of course I suppose there is another explanation for this and that the marketing team was referring to Mythals plan given that Mythals joining with Flemeth...and then Solas...is far more recent then anything else. This does seem a possibility because whilst it seems as though they are referring to Solas' plan, in fact it could be the overall plan, which Mythal restarted when she joined with Flemeth, which would fit the "centuries" reference. I am still puzzled about how much Solas knew of this. When we visit the Temple of Mythal he says: "So Mythal lives" or something similar when we enter the inner sanctuary with the Well, which suggests he wasn't aware of this fact but apparently the very fact this inner sanctum looks as it does seems to tell him that she must still be living in some way. Yet, after he woke from his slumber he visited the area of Flemeth's hut, which surely isn't mere coincidence. Then in the epilogue he knows where to find her and she is expecting him, plus she knows that he gave his orb to Corypheus. Now unless she knew he had it in safe keeping and would not part with it willingly, how would she know Corypheus hadn't come across it by accident or even taken it forcibly, bearing in mind the Dread Wolf might have been too weak to resist after his slumber? Their conversation also suggests that they had a joint plan but he messed it up since he appears to be apologising to her for his error. However, it could be just the fact that the ritual would take centuries to enact as he mentions in conversation about elven magic that this was often the case and, of course, when elves were immortal this was perfectly feasible. So, either he woke briefly from slumber to start the ritual or he got one of his followers to do this via the Fade. The fact that Felassan dismisses Mihris' suggestion that the ancient dreamers could contact their followers through the Fade as idle fancy, seems to confirm this was possible. In fact, this is how Felassan and Solas stay in touch and it is likely he wasn't the only one. The elf in the Carta dwarf's story also seems to have got his idea about the idol from a dream, so either it was just a yarn he spun for the benefit of the Carta or Solas was influencing random elves to do his bidding via their dreams. The problem I have with this explanation is the need for the orb to be "unlocked" and the part that the idol is meant to play. If the ritual had already been running for many centuries, why the rush in getting the orb unlocked? Surely rather than entrust it to some random powerful mage it would have been better to wait until he could unlock it for himself? If the idol was necessary for the final action, why not recover it earlier? If the idol only became necessary after the destruction of the orb, why not head straight to Kirkwall instead of delaying until after our confrontation with him in Trespasser? Why didn't he deal with recovering it personally? If he knew it had passed to that relative of Danarius in Blue Wraith, which the comic suggests he did, why didn't he intervene sooner before the mage did even more harm with it? Instead, according to Tevinter Nights, he allowed it to be transferred around Thedas before finally deciding to step in, when he recovered it with no problem, if his story is to be believed. I do wonder, though, if that was merely meant to deter Charter from searching for it further. After all, if it had really been offered for auction and then stolen, the various people he suggested were at the venue would be able to confirm whether or not this was the case. It is interesting, though, that its last known location was in Rivain and that is somewhere they have definitely included among our various destinations in DA:D.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jan 5, 2024 20:44:10 GMT
So it seems like everything currently going on in Thedas circles back to Solas and his plan and I just wonder how the writers are going to thread everything together. And who are the antagonists for each regional phenomena? Does it all relate back to one big bad, in which that big bad is essentially Solas’ puppet? Or are they someone else’s puppet (The Evanuris?) And why are these things happening and what good will it do to prevent them in the grand scheme of Solas’ plan?
There’s just so much going on over many regions and I’m curious how they’re gonna tell this story.
My guess is that The Archon is foolishly investing in dangerous magic that is releasing ancient forces set on destroying Thedas in order to rule over its people - those evil forces being The Evanuris. The mutilated monsters, the blight, time twisting in Arlathan Forest - could each of these phenomena relate back to The Evanuris and their ancient magic?
I do feel like it would make sense that with each phenomena and Evanuris we deal with, we therefore learn more about Dreadwolf, his past, and his plans - in which relay that information back to Varric and team.
But who knows, we’ll see - anyone have any thoughts? Not a lot to go on lol
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 6, 2024 9:01:48 GMT
My guess is that The Archon is foolishly investing in dangerous magic that is releasing ancient forces set on destroying Thedas in order to rule over its people - those evil forces being The Evanuris. The mutilated monsters, the blight, time twisting in Arlathan Forest - could each of these phenomena relate back to The Evanuris and their ancient magic? If we go by associated media (comics, short stories, etc) then the Archon would seem the only person not engaged in dabbling with dangerous magic, although apparently he does have a museum of ancient artifacts within his palace which could become important. People that we know are recovering, researching and possibly using ancient magical artifacts: Venatori: Highly invested in the use of red lyrium and know the means to "grow" it Also still seem to be interested in recovering ancient artifacts and may still be up in the Arlathan Forest. One of their members had a base there in Blue Wraith. Veil Jumpers: A group of mostly elves (not convinced they are genuine Dalish) but also human members who are located up in Arlathan Forest. They have had ample opportunity to study the strange phenomena up there. Have also recovered at least one artifact associated with either Andruil or Ghilan'nain, the halla statue that appears to have some sort of control over the strange magic. The Executors: I have a feeling they are responsible for the activation or re-discovery of the monster creation pools. It is too much of a coincidence that both smell of the sea, particularly when the pools were many miles inland. They are working against Solas but to their own mysterious ends. Definitely think they are going to be associated in some way with the Evanuris but whether as friends or foes remains to be seen. If allied, mostly likely they are followers of Ghilan'nain. I also have my suspicions about the Veil Jumpers that at least some of their members may been agents of the Executors, in particular Strife. The Qun (Par Vollen leadership): They have been gathering and researching magical items generally for some time. This may be associated with the Viddasala's original research into how to strengthen the Veil. Solas, or his agents, have been actively trying to prevent this and sabotage their efforts. The Antaam (break away faction): Not yet established exactly why they decided to launch a mainland invasion without the blessing of Par Vollen (if this is true). Attacking Tevinter whilst it was divided and weak would make sense but not invading Antiva, thus breaking the Llomerryn Accord and having to fight on two fronts, so this could have to do with the strangeness in Treviso that was alluded to in the latest trailer. They have been tracking the Venatori as well and the latter are apparently stronger in eastern and southern Tevinter, which could account for why they overran this part as a matter of urgency. Rasaan refers to "My Antaam" in Tevinter Nights. It occurs to me this could account for the actions of the Antaam as she is the official adviser of the Arishok, so if she had advised him it was the will of the Qun to act as he did, he would have followed her advice. She is particularly concerned with the identity of Solas. Since the Behind the Scene video said our hero would be having to act because those in charge were ignoring the danger, this could mean an alliance with Rassan is on the agenda because effectively she did the same in ignoring Par Vollen and acting on her own initiative. Lords of Fortune: Based in Rivain, these treasure hunters may well be helpful in establishing leads or already have potential important artifacts in their possession or know where they are located. The Black Divine: Whilst the Netflix series Absolution is said to be a self contained story, it did suggest the idea that the Black Divine has some ancient artifacts in his possession that he is researching. If the voice at the end of the latest trailer is not one of the Evanuris, then it could well be the Black Divine as everything we know of him from Dorian and the books would suggest he is a sinister individual who will stop at nothing to further his own power. The Shadow Dragons: We know little about this group other than they aid escaped slaves, oppose the Venatori and a leading member (possibly the founder of the group) is called the Viper. This individual clearly had access to magic negation in the short story in which they featured and was also already someone to be feared by the Venatori. Whilst they seemed a pretty useless bunch in DAI outside of a few named individuals, the Venatori are a group who want to gain control of Tevinter and the rest of Thedas through magic, so it follows that anyone opposing them has to be familiar with how to counter magic and may well have magical items for the same purpose. The Shadow Dragons seem to want to give power to those the mages in charge generally forget, presumably the Soporati, and definitely have non mages in their ranks but are not wholly prejudiced against mages, as Neve works with them. It will be interesting to see if this group are going to be aiding or opposing us and what their attitude to Solas might be. If the game takes the locations initially in the order shown in the latest trailer, we will start off in Treviso, Antiva, investigating the strange phenomena that has been observed there. This will likely bring us into contact with Rasaan, who will explain the potential danger from Solas and ask to team up with our PC. From there we will head to Rivain because of strange events and creatures that are emerging in that area. This will likely have us recruiting a Lord of Fortune, possibly Mateo from Tevinter Nights, which if Rasaan is with us could prove interesting given their previous history. It is also possible we might recruit a Rivaini Seer along the way for her knowledge of ancient magic. After that our next lead will take us to the Anderfels and the HQ of the Grey Wardens where we will pick up another companion, likely Davrin but alternatively Evka as she has featured prominently in Tevinter Nights, DA Day short stories and the Missing. At the very least we are likely to meet up with her and Antoine at some point. Perhaps we will travel part of the way to the Anderfels through the Deep Roads and they will act as our guides. After Weisshaupt, with a possible diversion to Kal Sharok, the action will likely then be focused entirely on Tevinter, including the Arlathan Forest, but likely starting in Minrathous, where we will acquire further companions and encounter a few familiar faces from both DAI and associated media.
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Post by Sandetiger on Feb 21, 2024 17:17:28 GMT
I haven't been speculating too much openly because I've been watching what's been put out there, but one thing I haven't really seen much of is the discussion on the setting we're shown of Rivain in the DA Day 2023 material. I've been squinting at this a lot, and a YouTuber I watched recently (whose name I am not recalling, apologies, I'll have to circle back to that when my bandwidth is happy enough for me to stream videos again) [Edit: I think it was green.brown.blue but I don't remember for sure] mentioned that this looked like a statue of Andraste. It's a really interesting thought, given Rivain largely is not Andrastian in its faith and as a country it has a pretty complicated history with Andrastianism and the Chantry. I don't think it's a coincidence that we see what appears to be the same statue in both official BioWare artworks of Rivain from 2023, and while I hesitate to speculate too much about this at this stage, I did want to pull the images and post a few tidbits about Rivain's relationship with Andrastianism. // Three Exalted Marches in Rivain, between 7:25 and 7:84 Storm, to drive the Qunari out. The Llomerryn Accords ended the Qunari Wars, which began in 6:30 Steel and ended in 7:84 Storm -- 154 years of war. (And I guess technically Tevinter never signed the Accords so Tevinter is still at war with the Qun because of this lol) // "It's worth noting, however, that the Kingdom of Rivain immediately violated the treaty. Twice. Once, when the humans of northern Rivain—nearly all practitioners of the Qun and therefore by definition, "Qunari"—refused to leave their homes and go in exile to the islands. And again, when the Rivaini Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves. It's a fortunate mystery that the leaders of Kont-aar did not alert their allies in the Northern Passage, or we'd still be fighting the giants now." —From The Exalted Marches: An Examination of Chantry Warfare, by Sister Petrine, Chantry scholar ( dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Llomerryn_Accords ) // Capitol city, Dairsmuid, is the only place where the Chantry apparently holds any authority in Rivain anymore. (Dragon Age: The World of Thedas, vol. 1, p. 82) // The royal family of Rivain is Andrastian, even if most of their subjects are not. (Dragon Age: The World of Thedas, vol. 1, p. 82) // "The Chant of Light never truly reached the ears of these people. Resistance to the Chant goes deeper than the Qunari Wars. The Rivaini refuse to be parted from their seers, wise women who are in fact hedge mages, communicating with spirits and actually allowing themselves to be possessed. The Chantry prohibition against such magical practices violates millennia of local tradition." -- Brother Gentivi (Dragon Age: The World of Thedas, vol. 1, p. 80) (Codex entry: Rivain - dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Rivain ) // In 9:40 Dragon, the Chantry sent the Seekers of Truth to investigate the Circle of Magi in Dairsmuid. They decided to annul the Circle. One of the reasons behind this decision was the fact that female mages were being trained in the traditions of the seers. ( dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Annulment_at_Dairsmuid )
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Post by Sandetiger on Feb 21, 2024 17:37:57 GMT
Some really interesting speculation in this video, didn't see it posted in the thread yet. Key points that I haven't seen discussed much: - Eluvian sounds in the trailer
- Discussion of Dragon Cults; apparently in the Rivain section of the Thedas Calls trailer you can hear the sound of a gong, which the youtuber felt was a potential callback to the gong used in DA:O to summon a high dragon
- The spot that Andy speculates is Kal-Sharok, this youtuber speculates is the fallen statue of Andraste in the Anderfels; speculates it collapsed when something caved in
- She apparently sees a silhouette of a dragon flying in the stormy skies of the Anderfels section of the trailer, right before it shoots lightening out of its mouth; she connects that to the final voice, which is set with a backdrop of a dragon's roar, thunder, and a wolf's howl.
- Some interesting speculation about the appearance of a white flag outside what is presumably Weisshaupt, and what the implications of are.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Feb 22, 2024 3:52:07 GMT
*Snip* In 9:40 Dragon, the Chantry sent the Seekers of Truth to investigate the Circle of Magi in Dairsmuid. They decided to annul the Circle. One of the reasons behind this decision was the fact that female mages were being trained in the traditions of the seers. ( dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Annulment_at_Dairsmuid ) Given its coastal location and the Andaste like statue I've seen some speculate that these ruins are the ruins of the anulled Dairsmuid circle.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 22, 2024 8:46:56 GMT
(And I guess technically Tevinter never signed the Accords so Tevinter is still at war with the Qun because of this lol) That is correct and why I questioned the wisdom of the Antaam breaking the Accords by attacking Antiva. So long as they only attacked Tevinter, the southern Divine would be reluctant to intervene because it would mean her breaking the Accord. In fact at the end of Trespasser, if you sided with the Qun in DAI, there was even the suggestion from Par Vollen that the Divine should commit to siding with the Qun against Tevinter, probably suggesting that they both wanted to combat the spread of red lyrium. That idea was rather ruined in Tevinter Nights by suggesting that the Antaam did not attack with the blessing of Par Vollen and then further destroyed when Antiva was attacked. Whether authorised by Par Vollen or not, the Antaam had broken the Llomerryn Accord and so the Divine would have no choice but to declare war against them and side with Tevinter, even if initially she held off calling for a full Exalted March. So, the Antaam would now be fighting on two fronts with the Divine supporting Tevinter with supplies of normal lyrium and other essentials, even if they did not commit any troops. Given its coastal location and the Andaste like statue I've seen some speculate that these ruins are the ruins of the anulled Dairsmuid circle. That is a possibility considering we know the Templars annulled it, so perhaps they destroyed the building as well as they thought the structures too corrupted by magic. Alternatively, it could have been destroyed by the magic used by the mages defending themselves. "The Chant of Light never truly reached the ears of these people." This is true but it is also a possibility that already existing statues may have been re-purposed as "Andraste" when the Chantry originally tried to establish themselves in the area. This was suggested concerning other statues we have seen in game that were meant to be her in view of the fact that they seemed to show a mage not a warrior. Of course, there is a tradition in Thedas, severely repressed by the Chantry, that Andraste was a mage. In fact, given her origins among the Alamaari barbarians, of whom the Avvar are an offshoot, she seems to have fulfilled a role very similar to that of their Augurs or shaman, whilst the Rivaini Seers seem in a similar mould, except they can only ever be female. Notice how the Chantry only allow females to occupy senior roles in their priesthood. So, if the Rivaini originally revered Andraste as a Seer of the southern people who fought back against the corrupt mages of Tevinter, that could explain the statues even in places steeped in the old culture. It is why the Dairsmiud Circle would have seen nothing wrong in worshiping Andraste and yet training in the old traditions. Remember how Ameridan saw no contradiction between honouring both Andraste and Ghilan'nain but acknowledged that it was Drakon who wished to "simplify" things. Remember that the Andrastrian faith was first established in the north by Hessarian, who was a mage and as Archon was head of both State and religion. If Tevinter controlled Rivain back then, he would have encouraged Circles as places of magical training within the community, as they are in Tevinter today, not separated from them and that would have fitted with the traditions of Rivain. The statues of the mage Andraste could have been raised by him. Naturally the people of Rivain would not have appreciated the new Chantry's ideas with their warrior Andraste who hated magic, when their statues clearly showed a different tradition, an Andraste who was a Seer, who regarded magic as a "gift of the Maker" but one which should not be abused and sacrificed herself in her quest to free her people.
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