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Post by flyingovertrout on Jun 20, 2024 14:47:00 GMT
Morrigan or Flemythal not playing any part in DAV isn't a dealbreaker or super upsetting to me but I always looked at those two (especially Morrigan) as a through line in the saga--so their absence would seem really 'off' to me. I always entertained the idea that Morrigan would gain some kind of special wisdom and important sagely role in the next age, and be the one to record all our tales (not in a Varric spinning a good yarn way but in a scholarly, mystical way).
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 14:52:01 GMT
Morrigan or Flemythal not playing any part in DAV isn't a dealbreaker or super upsetting to me but I always looked at those two (especially Morrigan) as a through line in the saga--so their absence would seem really 'off' to me. I always entertained the idea that Morrigan would gain some kind of special wisdom and important sagely role in the next age, and be the one to record all our tales (not in a Varric spinning a good yarn way but in a scholarly, mystical way). On one hand yes, Morrigan and Flemeth are the kind of characters that one could expect to be woven through the story, but IMO the most important role they've ultimately had in DAI is for Morrigan to reach and do something with the Well of Sorrows (regardless who drinks it) and for Flemythal to hand her powers to Solas - who, in one way or another, does appear to be her successor.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 20, 2024 14:56:27 GMT
Flemythal send something through an Eluvian behind Solas back. (dev notes said it was maybe passing her godhood to Morrigan, can't remember) Besides in DAi she screams at the top of her lung how Mythal crawled her way to her and she will have her revenge ! Possible she let Solas have his way just so she could have hers. I'd rather have the epic saga of a pissed off vengeful and successful grandma than the misunderstood lonely dude. But I doubt it will happen.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 20, 2024 14:58:25 GMT
That only happen's because his plan backfired. Remember him having his minion's lead Cory to the location of his orb? Remember how the result he wanted backfired? No matter how you word it, Solas is responsible, no matter how indirect, for what happens. And when his plan backfired he immediately focused finding a solution to put that fire away. And he succeeded - no matter how you look at it, this was a success he's had a direct hand in. Call me strange, but I actually think this is a much more important quality than something going wrong with initial plan - to not lose one's head and come up with a successful solution to a sudden, unexpected problem: a thing that is bound to happen at any time, especially if someone is trying to pull off an extremely complex plan or fighting great odds. He played nice so others would view him as a good guy so he could have time to come up with another way to unleash his nonsense. You can admire him all you want with what happened after the beginning, but he still want's to destroy this world.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Jun 20, 2024 14:58:28 GMT
Morrigan or Flemythal not playing any part in DAV isn't a dealbreaker or super upsetting to me but I always looked at those two (especially Morrigan) as a through line in the saga--so their absence would seem really 'off' to me. I always entertained the idea that Morrigan would gain some kind of special wisdom and important sagely role in the next age, and be the one to record all our tales (not in a Varric spinning a good yarn way but in a scholarly, mystical way). On one hand yes, Morrigan and Flemeth are the kind of characters that one could expect to be woven through the story, but IMO the most important role they've ultimately had in DAI is for Morrigan to reach and do something with the Well of Sorrows (regardless who drinks it) and for Flemythal to hand her powers to Solas - who, in one way or another, does appear to be her successor. That's why I wouldn't be too upset, since you can at least look at the events in DAI as their story reaching its climax.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 15:00:22 GMT
Flemythal send something through an Eluvian behind Solas back. (dev notes said it was maybe passing her godhood to Morrigan, can't remember) Besides in DAi she screams at the top of her lung how Mythal crawled her way to her and she will have her revenge ! Possible she let Solas have his way just so she could have hers. I'd rather have the epic saga of a pissed off vengeful and successful grandma than the misunderstood lonely dude. But I doubt it will happen. I seem to recall that the dev not said that Mythal handed her powers to Solas under the conditions that they'll eventually be passed to Morrigan. Of course, since it's just a dev note, this scenario could've changed in a myriad of ways after 10 years...
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Post by Reznore on Jun 20, 2024 15:04:06 GMT
"Designer's Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession."
Just dev notes so I expect things to change quite a bit.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 15:13:25 GMT
And when his plan backfired he immediately focused finding a solution to put that fire away. And he succeeded - no matter how you look at it, this was a success he's had a direct hand in. Call me strange, but I actually think this is a much more important quality than something going wrong with initial plan - to not lose one's head and come up with a successful solution to a sudden, unexpected problem: a thing that is bound to happen at any time, especially if someone is trying to pull off an extremely complex plan or fighting great odds. He played nice so others would view him as a good guy so he could have time to come up with another way to unleash his nonsense. You can admire him all you want with what happened after the beginning, but he still want's to destroy this world. But we weren't talking about him "playing nice", but succeeding at finding the solution to an unforeseen problem the moment it occurred. Which he did Also - we don't know how DAVe will unfold or end, but so far we've found out that the ritual he initiated has indeed caused chaos across Thedas, but ultimately was meant to contain two extremely dangerous entities that either want to destroy this world, or are so corrupted/blighted that their actions will ultimately lead to this - same as it almost did before. And because our new PC disrupted that ritual, these entities have been set free - ooops, I guess Dragon Age is a story in which there aren't always easy solutions that could be qualified as full successes or full failures. I'm quite happy about that, I like stories - and characters - like this
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Post by azarhal on Jun 20, 2024 15:21:41 GMT
" Designer's Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession." Just dev notes so I expect things to change quite a bit. That dev note always bothered me, since people remember the dev notes more than the actual scene and conversation in-game and I always felt the scene we got had already moved on from the dev notes.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 20, 2024 15:27:41 GMT
That dev note always bothered me, since people remember the dev notes more than the actual scene and conversation in-game and I always felt the scene we got had already moved on from the dev notes.
What do you mean? It seems to mostly fit.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 15:29:35 GMT
" Designer's Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession." Just dev notes so I expect things to change quite a bit. That dev note always bothered me, since people remember the dev notes more than the actual scene and conversation in-game and I always felt the scene we got had already moved on from the dev notes. I have no idea what they discarded/preserved from that dev note, but I also see nothing in that scene that would contradict the note. A lot of things have been left unsaid, so it's more that it was a scene that was constructed in a way that would allow the devs to take the story in many different directions, if they wanted to.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2024 15:29:47 GMT
Personally I’m glad it seems like Morrigan and Flemeth aren’t involved in this game, since their story was wrapped up in DAI.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 20, 2024 15:30:06 GMT
He played nice so others would view him as a good guy so he could have time to come up with another way to unleash his nonsense. You can admire him all you want with what happened after the beginning, but he still want's to destroy this world. But we weren't talking about him "playing nice", but succeeding at finding the solution to an unforeseen problem the moment it occurred. Which he did He does play nice. He want's to avoid any unwanted attention while helping and at the same time try to figure out what went wrong to avoid that the next time he tries his whatever. ah yes, disrupting the ritual. Would you not have done the same if someone was going to destroy this world? Or should the main character have gone to psychics-for-us to tell him/her not to interfere with the ritual?
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 15:41:12 GMT
But we weren't talking about him "playing nice", but succeeding at finding the solution to an unforeseen problem the moment it occurred. Which he did He does play nice. He want's to avoid any unwanted attention while helping and at the same time try to figure out what went wrong to avoid that the next time he tries his whatever. You're trying to change the topic. Whether he plays nice or not is irrelevant to what we were discussing - which was the fact that he was successful. And... apparently he was successful in playing nice as well I mean, clearly we're not going to be in agreement about the quality of his character or his motivations, even though you clearly want to press the topic. Whatever, I won't be continuing debating about this on this thread, it already had its share of this discussion. You're missing the point big time, but let's leave it at that.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 20, 2024 16:03:48 GMT
If Mythal as a character isn't a HUGE part of DAV the game is DOA for me. I'm still super depressed Morrigan doesn't seem to be in the game. That already killed any hope I had for getting a great story. I know, I'm super biased. But I can't help feeling sad that this game won't even remotely be what I imagined. I was just having these thoughts or along these lines. And really though, while I will always be dissapiunted by a lack of Claudia Black,if this game ends up being exactly like we expected...wouldn't that be boring? Like the story reveals some stuff I've called but I am far more excited by the stuff I didn't expect that they revealed. Yeah this, I want to be surprised. I want them to change stuff (hopefully for the better, but even if not I'd still rather they had made the effort). If the next game were to be exactly as I expected, it would get boring real quick.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 20, 2024 16:06:29 GMT
And when his plan backfired he immediately focused finding a solution to put that fire away. And he succeeded - no matter how you look at it, this was a success he's had a direct hand in. Call me strange, but I actually think this is a much more important quality than something going wrong with initial plan - to not lose one's head and come up with a successful solution to a sudden, unexpected problem: a thing that is bound to happen at any time, especially if someone is trying to pull off an extremely complex plan or fighting great odds. He played nice so others would view him as a good guy so he could have time to come up with another way to unleash his nonsense. You can admire him all you want with what happened after the beginning, but he still want's to destroy this world. That's why he needs to be put down with the rest of Evanuris. I'll be pissed if this becomes a forced redemption arc...or rescue him/leave him trapped...the latter would be a fitting punishment if you could trust he'd not find a way to escape eventually. Mage abominations and the morality of Circles and Templars seems a quaint notion compared to the power those assholes wield and the damage they're willing and able to inflict.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 20, 2024 16:06:35 GMT
... I guess Dragon Age is a story in there aren't always easy solutions that could be qualified as full successes or full failures. I'm quite happy about that, I like stories - and characters - like this Same!
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 20, 2024 16:08:53 GMT
Personally I’m glad it seems like Morrigan and Flemeth aren’t involved in this game, since their story was wrapped up in DAI. you know, Hanako, I don't agree with all your DA takes, but I love that they all obviously come from a place of genuine enthusiasm and attachment to the series
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 16:12:44 GMT
I was just having these thoughts or along these lines. And really though, while I will always be dissapiunted by a lack of Claudia Black,if this game ends up being exactly like we expected...wouldn't that be boring? Like the story reveals some stuff I've called but I am far more excited by the stuff I didn't expect that they revealed. Yeah this, I want to be surprised. I want them to change stuff (hopefully for the better, but even if not I'd still rather they had made the effort). If the next game were to be exactly as I expected, it would get boring real quick. One thing I appreciate Bioware for is that they set up certain things and then they take them into places I didn't at all expect - although I can't say I also don't appreciate the moments where they leave enough clues for me to piece things together, and feel satisfied that I guessed things more or less correctly Storytelling is a complicated beast, and - if anything - I'm glad they didn't yet seem to have fallen into rather popular recent pitfall, where the ultimate goal is trying to outsmart the audience with twists and subversions nobody saw coming
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 20, 2024 16:12:50 GMT
He played nice so others would view him as a good guy so he could have time to come up with another way to unleash his nonsense. You can admire him all you want with what happened after the beginning, but he still want's to destroy this world. That's why he needs to be put down with the rest of Evanuris. I'll be pissed if this becomes a forced redemption arc...or rescue him/leave him trapped...the latter would be a fitting punishment if you could trust he'd not find a way to escape eventually. Mage abominations and the morality of Circles and Templars seems a quaint notion compared to the power those assholes wield and the damage they're willing and able to inflict. That would kill the stakes, among other things. If the player is to have any meaningful choice with regard to Solas and his potential redemption/damnation, there needs to be the possibility of a bad outcome. That's one thing that genuinely bothers me about DAI- the choices feel far more boxed in than they did in e.g. Origins. They're sort of non-choice choices- technically, you get to make a choice, but really, it doesn't ultimately affect a whole lot. It certainly won't lead to a catastrophic outcome. Ok there's that one Iron Bull plotline, but outside of that, the possibility of choices going genuinely sideways seems to have gone out the window between DAO and DAI. I know this is an old and tired complaint- "more meaningful choices!"- but its only old and tired because its something a lot of fans care about.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 20, 2024 16:15:10 GMT
That dev note always bothered me, since people remember the dev notes more than the actual scene and conversation in-game and I always felt the scene we got had already moved on from the dev notes.
What do you mean? It seems to mostly fit. I've been reading for a week now that Flemeth had Solas promise to give the spark back to Morrigan once he was done. There is no such conversation in-game, it's technically not even in the dev notes, but that's how people interpret their memory of those dev notes.
As for "moving away", it's not that big, just that the dev notes suggest Solas is supposed to get all the power, while the in-game scene shows Flemeth sending something coming from her body through an Eluvian suggesting he didn't get all of it.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 20, 2024 16:15:38 GMT
That's why he needs to be put down with the rest of Evanuris. I'll be pissed if this becomes a forced redemption arc...or rescue him/leave him trapped...the latter would be a fitting punishment if you could trust he'd not find a way to escape eventually. Mage abominations and the morality of Circles and Templars seems a quaint notion compared to the power those assholes wield and the damage they're willing and able to inflict. That would kill the stakes, among other things. If the player is to have any meaningful choice with regard to Solas and his potential redemption/damnation, there needs to be the possibility of a bad outcome. That's one thing that genuinely bothers me about DAI- the choices feel far more boxed in than they did in e.g. Origins. They're sort of non-choice choices- technically, you get to make a choice, but really, it doesn't ultimately affect a whole lot. It certainly won't lead to a catastrophic outcome. Ok there's that one Iron Bull plotline, but outside of that, the possibility of choices going genuinely sideways seems to have gone out the window between DAO and DAI. I know this is an old and tired complaint- "more meaningful choices!"- but its only old and tired because its something a lot of fans care about. I want him dead...not redeemed...not trapped. Dead, dead.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 20, 2024 16:16:49 GMT
Flemythal send something through an Eluvian behind Solas back. (dev notes said it was maybe passing her godhood to Morrigan, can't remember) Besides in DAi she screams at the top of her lung how Mythal crawled her way to her and she will have her revenge ! Possible she let Solas have his way just so she could have hers. I'd rather have the epic saga of a pissed off vengeful and successful grandma than the misunderstood lonely dude. But I doubt it will happen. Yes, she sent something through the eluvian. Even without the dev notes this has to mean SOMETHING. Mythal is still scheming right before she "dies", something she knew all along was coming. So I always thought she was still two steps ahead of Solas. She knew what he was going to do and prepared SOMETHING that might still serve HER. She could still actively be scheming against him despite their friendship. It was my understanding that Mythal is basically corrupted too and now about revenge. If I were her I'd want a direct hand in my killer's demise. Her character is just too much fun not to keep her around in some form imo. Even if it's just through Morrigan doing her will (and then ultimately using that godhood she obtained to do something awesome in her own right once the gods are dealt with and she's free of this whole drama). Morrigan didn't want Mythal's gift but that doesn't mean she had a choice in the end if she received it anyway. What she might do with it is intriguing to me and could go in several different directions. Some of them could have been directly linked to the events in DAV but I guess they chose not to pursue this storyline in this game.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jun 20, 2024 16:18:57 GMT
That would kill the stakes, among other things. If the player is to have any meaningful choice with regard to Solas and his potential redemption/damnation, there needs to be the possibility of a bad outcome. That's one thing that genuinely bothers me about DAI- the choices feel far more boxed in than they did in e.g. Origins. They're sort of non-choice choices- technically, you get to make a choice, but really, it doesn't ultimately affect a whole lot. It certainly won't lead to a catastrophic outcome. Ok there's that one Iron Bull plotline, but outside of that, the possibility of choices going genuinely sideways seems to have gone out the window between DAO and DAI. I know this is an old and tired complaint- "more meaningful choices!"- but its only old and tired because its something a lot of fans care about. I want him dead...not redeemed...not trapped. Dead, dead. Good for you. Other people DON'T.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 20, 2024 16:21:57 GMT
I want him dead...not redeemed...not trapped. Dead, dead. Good fior you. Other people DON'T. If they want to leave a nuke laying around that's their choice...others should be afforded theirs if they feel said nuke is too dangerous.
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