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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 16:25:15 GMT
That's why he needs to be put down with the rest of Evanuris. I'll be pissed if this becomes a forced redemption arc...or rescue him/leave him trapped...the latter would be a fitting punishment if you could trust he'd not find a way to escape eventually. Mage abominations and the morality of Circles and Templars seems a quaint notion compared to the power those assholes wield and the damage they're willing and able to inflict. That would kill the stakes, among other things. If the player is to have any meaningful choice with regard to Solas and his potential redemption/damnation, there needs to be the possibility of a bad outcome. That's one thing that genuinely bothers me about DAI- the choices feel far more boxed in than they did in e.g. Origins. They're sort of non-choice choices- technically, you get to make a choice, but really, it doesn't ultimately affect a whole lot. It certainly won't lead to a catastrophic outcome. Ok there's that one Iron Bull plotline, but outside of that, the possibility of choices going genuinely sideways seems to have gone out the window between DAO and DAI. I know this is an old and tired complaint- "more meaningful choices!"- but its only old and tired because its something a lot of fans care about. Well, considering that Veilguard so far shapes itself to be a more or less direct sequel to Inquisition, it's possible we'll get some meaningful choices now. What will they be and how will they look is anyone's guess though, and depends on plans they have for certain long-running story arcs - because it's the fact that DA chapters aren't fully self-contained stories that impacts the extent of decisions we can make. Like, HOF could never return for a sequel, because they have too many possible endings in DAO. Inquisitor, on the other hand, will be able to return - at least in SOME role - because they have more or less ended in a relatively similar place in Inquisition/Trespasser.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 20, 2024 16:26:11 GMT
As for "moving away", it's not that big, just that the dev notes suggest Solas is supposed to get all the power, while the in-game scene shows Flemeth sending something coming from her body through an Eluvian suggesting he didn't get all of it.
Yeah. I vaguely remember D. Gaider explaining there was a whole different ending with Morrigan or the Inky who drank from the well, and it was all more complicated.
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Post by celestielf on Jun 20, 2024 16:27:40 GMT
Yeah, I don't agree with the notion that "x character shouldn't be at all redeemable/allowed to live because I don't like them." For those who hate Solas, there probably will be some bad ending for him, but many of us would never choose that. Kill/redeem has to be player choice IMO.
I think what they're doing with Solas so far is a clever way of prompting some self-reflection or empathy on the part of the player. Which isn't to say I think he's safe as a "good guy," as I still expect him to run into conflict with Rook at some point. But Rook will get some context for Solas' motivations, just as the Inquisitor did.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 20, 2024 16:28:29 GMT
With Solas, my main character will do what Hackett say's
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 16:33:38 GMT
Good fior you. Other people DON'T. If they want to leave a nuke laying around that's their choice...others should be afforded theirs if they feel said nuke is too dangerous. I think people will likely get a possibility to end the presupposed "nuke" in some fashion, if they wanted to - I just hope there won't be a lot of crying if it turns out that, say, ending that nuke may mean getting a far nastier nuke in their place, or that the thing deemed too dangerous was actually the one thing keeping everyone away from the whole nuke arsenal. I don't know if this (or anything of the sort) will happen... but it totally can, if the existing story is any indicator.
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Post by cyanwool on Jun 20, 2024 17:05:28 GMT
Flemythal send something through an Eluvian behind Solas back. (dev notes said it was maybe passing her godhood to Morrigan, can't remember) Besides in DAi she screams at the top of her lung how Mythal crawled her way to her and she will have her revenge ! Possible she let Solas have his way just so she could have hers. I'd rather have the epic saga of a pissed off vengeful and successful grandma than the misunderstood lonely dude. But I doubt it will happen. Yes, she sent something through the eluvian. Even without the dev notes this has to mean SOMETHING. Mythal is still scheming right before she "dies", something she knew all along was coming. So I always thought she was still two steps ahead of Solas. She knew what he was going to do and prepared SOMETHING that might still serve HER. She could still actively be scheming against him despite their friendship. It was my understanding that Mythal is basically corrupted too and now about revenge. If I were her I'd want a direct hand in my killer's demise. Her character is just too much fun not to keep her around in some form imo. Even if it's just through Morrigan doing her will (and then ultimately using that godhood she obtained to do something awesome in her own right once the gods are dealt with and she's free of this whole drama). Morrigan didn't want Mythal's gift but that doesn't mean she had a choice in the end if she received it anyway. What she might do with it is intriguing to me and could go in several different directions. Some of them could have been directly linked to the events in DAV but I guess they chose not to pursue this storyline in this game. I think Mythal's story is definetely not done. She will probably not appear much in game but the story is too connected to her, the imprisonment of the evanuris was caused by her murder and someone posted a while ago the image of a Maferath statue defaced by darkspawn to look like Elgar'nan, we might see the details of how and why the elven gods, especially her own husband, betrayed her which will be a good setup for Mythal taking on a bigger story role by the next game.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 20, 2024 17:12:52 GMT
A nice summary of the information.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 20, 2024 17:37:03 GMT
It was my understanding that Mythal is basically corrupted too and now about revenge. I vaguely remember D. Gaider explaining there was a whole different ending with Morrigan or the Inky who drank from the well, and it was all more complicated. I think Mythal's story is definetely not done. Apart from the epilogue scene definitely showing Flemeth/Mythal putting something into the eluvian before Solas arrived there are other hints she still has a part to play. She told us a soul cannot be forced on the unwilling but I assume it cannot be forced to leave unless it is willing, certainly not by the outside agency (Solas). So, Mythal wanted to take up residence. Now Flemeth said that Mythal was as much part of her as her own body at that point; hence her dying when Mythal leaves because it was Mythal keeping her alive. Then we've been told that this is still the same story as they were telling in DAI and Trespasser, so whilst there has been a checkered development cycle that was all to do with single player/multi-player/single player debacle. The fact that many of the companion characters featured in Tevinter Nights shows the story was pretty much thought out back then. (Whilst technical people were likely pulled off the project to work on Andromeda and Anthem the core writing team were probably left behind to work on their project) One of the stories in Tevinter Nights (Callback) specifically referenced a picture in the Rotunda that depicted a Dragon being absorbed by a Wolf, creating a hybrid creature that the demon Regret used for its form. Then in the last story (Dread Wolf Take You) actually written by PW, there was an account of how Fen'Harel manifestated in the Fade as a giant wolf, the size of a high dragon, which also had wings, so once again the Wolf/Dragon hybrid. That seems a pretty clear indication that even if the piece Flemeth put in the eluvian is no longer relevant, Mythal most certainly is. Think back to the relationship between Anders and Justice or how Flemeth described her relationship with Mythal for that matter and Solas is definitely not acting alone anymore, even if for the present Mythal is content to bide her time. Also, for those who want Solas dead, please remember that even 7 Evanuris couldn't kill Mythal permanently and it was an awareness of the transient nature of death for these beings that caused Solas to imprison them in the first place. However, I suppose if we can figure out how to kill the other two, then perhaps we will be able do the same for Solas and Mythal if we choose.
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 20, 2024 18:19:18 GMT
Yeah, I don't agree with the notion that "x character shouldn't be at all redeemable/allowed to live because I don't like them." For those who hate Solas, there probably will be some bad ending for him, but many of us would never choose that. Kill/redeem has to be player choice IMO. I think what they're doing with Solas so far is a clever way of prompting some self-reflection or empathy on the part of the player. Which isn't to say I think he's safe as a "good guy," as I still expect him to run into conflict with Rook at some point. But Rook will get some context for Solas' motivations, just as the Inquisitor did. I have no issue if others want option to save him as long as I’m given the option of actually being able to execute him, rather than some lame pathetic unsatisfactory leave behind in the fade variant.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 20, 2024 18:42:32 GMT
"You met Mythal did you not, the first of my people aren't so easily killed".
Any descions about Solas has to make logical and story sense.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2024 18:58:21 GMT
Personally I’m glad it seems like Morrigan and Flemeth aren’t involved in this game, since their story was wrapped up in DAI. you know, Hanako, I don't agree with all your DA takes, but I love that they all obviously come from a place of genuine enthusiasm and attachment to the series Thank you. Yeah, this series is one of my all time favorites and I will honestly say changed and saved my life.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2024 19:01:34 GMT
I wonder if the reason the voice actor of Flemeth isn’t in this game is because if we hear Mythal’s voice it’ll be Mythal’s actual voice instead of Flemeth’s.
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Post by RelevantRevenant on Jun 20, 2024 19:20:50 GMT
I wonder if the reason the voice actor of Flemeth isn’t in this game is because if we hear Mythal’s voice it’ll be Mythal’s actual voice instead of Flemeth’s. I think it was Mark Darrah who said that they couldn't afford to get Kate Mulgrew anymore.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jun 20, 2024 19:38:34 GMT
I wonder if the reason the voice actor of Flemeth isn’t in this game is because if we hear Mythal’s voice it’ll be Mythal’s actual voice instead of Flemeth’s. I like that lore explanation, though.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2024 19:46:47 GMT
I wonder if the reason the voice actor of Flemeth isn’t in this game is because if we hear Mythal’s voice it’ll be Mythal’s actual voice instead of Flemeth’s. I think it was Mark Darrah who said that they couldn't afford to get Kate Mulgrew anymore. Ah, okay. Still, that could be an in-universe reason since we’ll be seeing and hearing the true Mythal, rather than Mythal wearing a Flemeth suit.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 20, 2024 19:56:33 GMT
I wonder if the reason the voice actor of Flemeth isn’t in this game is because if we hear Mythal’s voice it’ll be Mythal’s actual voice instead of Flemeth’s. I think it was Mark Darrah who said that they couldn't afford to get Kate Mulgrew anymore. Oh interesting. Shame. So then my hope is that Mythal is in the game with a different voice. I'll take it!
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Post by helios969 on Jun 20, 2024 19:58:15 GMT
If they want to leave a nuke laying around that's their choice...others should be afforded theirs if they feel said nuke is too dangerous. I think people will likely get a possibility to end the presupposed "nuke" in some fashion, if they wanted to - I just hope there won't be a lot of crying if it turns out that, say, ending that nuke may mean getting a far nastier nuke in their place, or that the thing deemed too dangerous was actually the one thing keeping everyone away from the whole nuke arsenal. I don't know if this (or anything of the sort) will happen... but it totally can, if the existing story is any indicator. I'd be good with that...give me real consequences...as long as it makes thematic sense. As I said in a previous post I'm not interested in a forced redemption arc for Solas. The thing that will be interesting in the setup will be why should our Rook believe anything Solas says given everything in lore and the Inquisitor's interactions show him to be duplicitous. I'll not be taking anything at face value...scrutinizing everything he says looking for double meanings.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 20, 2024 20:05:09 GMT
Ah, okay. Still, that could be an in-universe reason since we’ll be seeing and hearing the true Mythal, rather than Mythal wearing a Flemeth suit. It may be the reason they had Solas absorb her or that may have always been the plan but certainly Mythal can now have her own unique voice should she decide to manifest independently or, alternatively, take control of Solas if only temporarily to make her views clear. I recall that is what happened with Anders when Justice got riled up and came to the fore. It was also the case in the Fade, although that was an example of an ordinary spirit co-existing in a human. Since Solas is trapped physically in the Fade, I assume that is why he is still communicating as himself, whereas then the Mortalitassi and the Tevinter mage were confronted by him that was spiritually in the Fade and that is when Solas becomes the Dread Wolf.
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Post by cyanwool on Jun 20, 2024 20:06:46 GMT
www.gameinformer.com/exclusive/2024/06/20/dragon-age-the-veilguards-leads-on-the-name-change-and-solas-role-in-the-story"Epler says players will see early on (and as the narrative develops across Veilguard) that Solas sees much of himself in you, the player-controlled Rook, especially "the parts that maybe he doesn't like to face." As a result, there's an interesting push and pull between Solas and Rook. He says players can define the relationship between these two characters with their choices in dialogue. "You can continue to be suspicious and hostile towards him, or you can start to see him and find that common ground, that connection between the two of you, and really develop a different relationship over the course of the story," Epler says."
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Post by MeadKnight on Jun 20, 2024 20:09:27 GMT
www.gameinformer.com/exclusive/2024/06/20/dragon-age-the-veilguards-leads-on-the-name-change-and-solas-role-in-the-story"Epler says players will see early on (and as the narrative develops across Veilguard) that Solas sees much of himself in you, the player-controlled Rook, especially "the parts that maybe he doesn't like to face." As a result, there's an interesting push and pull between Solas and Rook. He says players can define the relationship between these two characters with their choices in dialogue. "You can continue to be suspicious and hostile towards him, or you can start to see him and find that common ground, that connection between the two of you, and really develop a different relationship over the course of the story," Epler says." Interesting. Very interesting 🧐
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Post by Reznore on Jun 20, 2024 20:13:30 GMT
I don't wanna build another relationship with Solas. I went the full friendship, betrayal, standing there armless listening to his b***shit. I want to put him on my fade dream blocklist. Thanks.
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Post by MeadKnight on Jun 20, 2024 20:18:28 GMT
I don't wanna build another relationship with Solas. I went the full friendship, betrayal, standing there armless listening to his b***shit. I want to put him on my fade dream blocklist. Thanks. Yeah, as much as I love Solas, I'd rather have him visiting the Inquisitor's dreams than my Rook. It's very much giving I've already done this before.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 20:25:43 GMT
I think people will likely get a possibility to end the presupposed "nuke" in some fashion, if they wanted to - I just hope there won't be a lot of crying if it turns out that, say, ending that nuke may mean getting a far nastier nuke in their place, or that the thing deemed too dangerous was actually the one thing keeping everyone away from the whole nuke arsenal. I don't know if this (or anything of the sort) will happen... but it totally can, if the existing story is any indicator. I'd be good with that...give me real consequences...as long as it makes thematic sense. As I said in a previous post I'm not interested in a forced redemption arc for Solas. The thing that will be interesting in the setup will be why should our Rook believe anything Solas says given everything in lore and the Inquisitor's interactions show him to be duplicitous. I'll not be taking anything at face value...scrutinizing everything he says looking for double meanings. In Inquisition, Trespasser or books like Tevinter Nights we've had a wealth of material that was unrelated to and separate from Solas (ancient documents, memories, inscriptions, NPCs, etc.) with which we could verify his claims about the Fade or ancient past - I don't believe, for example, that elven gods were an extremely suspicious bunch just because Solas insists they are, but because e.g. we can find ancient evidence of Evanuris being despotic and flippant, or very unsettling, like in case of Ghilan'nain. In any case, I don't believe the story will unfold only based on someone telling us what happened - we'll likely be spending a lot of time in the Fade and among ancient ruins, etc. piecing a lot of things ourselves. As we usually do in DA.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2024 20:34:57 GMT
I don't wanna build another relationship with Solas. I went the full friendship, betrayal, standing there armless listening to his b***shit. I want to put him on my fade dream blocklist. Thanks. Yeah, as much as I love Solas, I'd rather have him visiting the Inquisitor's dreams than my Rook. It's very much giving I've already done this before. Despite their willingness to spoil a significant portion of DAVe's beginning, I see them trying to keep the extent of Inquisitor's involvement under wraps, with John Epler recently saying on Discord that telling anything more is 'serious spoiler territory'. Which, of course, makes me extremely curious about what they have in store specifically for Inquisitor and their relationship with Solas They did say that, basically, their stories are tied together.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 20, 2024 20:35:02 GMT
Trying to force some kind of a connection between Solas and the new protagonist was of course expected but I don't know about... '' Solas sees much of himself in you '' uhhhhhhhhhh right. Okay. Not really sure about that, especially since I doubt that Rook is going to be wildly different from the Inquisitor.
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