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The Rainbow Destined to Burn
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by jennica on Jul 6, 2024 15:39:41 GMT
As a straight guy I want to push back against the narrative that BioWare doesn't try to appeal to us anymore. Straight men had the most romance options in Mass Effect Andromeda, and most of the love interests in DATV are women. When it comes to looks I think Neve is very attractive and none of the others can be called ugly. When it comes to DAI both Josephine and Vivvienne to me are conventionally attractive. Just because some of the female characters don't appeal to some straight men's tastes, doesn’t mean BioWare has an agenda against creating female characters that are appealing to straight men. Looking at the DATV female cast Neve to me is a 10 out of 10. Bellara and Harding are cute in the same way Merrill was in DA2 to me. Taash is the only one that doesn’t grab my attention instantly from a purely attractive standpoint, but neither did Lae’zel from BG3 and by the end of act one I saw her appeal. I also want to point out that not only Neve is hot (even tho she is not exactly my type), she also shows quite a bit of cleavage in her casual outfit, even if it's not on Isabela level.
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Post by Gwydden on Jul 6, 2024 16:13:20 GMT
I won't get into people's issues with Davrin but he's objectively the most handsome dude I've seen in one of these games but still doesn't cater to the Alistair/Cullen etc crowd. Why? Genuine question. At least superficially, he seems to be exactly the knight in shining armor type folks have been clamoring for. They only reason I can think of why he wouldn't fit the mold is... not nice, so I won't assume that. Maybe there's something else I'm missing. As for the rest, beauty standards are ultimately subjective. I would more or less agree that 1. Neve is beautiful (though not quite my type), 2. Harding and Bellara are cute, 3. Taash is rather plain (though maybe we've only gotten unflattering angles of her), and 4. whether we're talking romance or the character in general, writing and voice acting supersede looks (though I won't be one of those enlightened few who say they don't matter at all). I don't think my fellow straight men have much to complain about, since we're getting at least twice as many options as in DA:I and they're more conventionally attractive overall.
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Post by The Dread Pronoun on Jul 6, 2024 16:30:38 GMT
Desire Demons were never supposed to be big-titted 80s metal mascots, so BW really has no compelling lOrE reason to bring them back in that way. Gaider always wanted them to look like Neil Gaiman's Sandman, but the art department had its way there (and in a lot of other areas). Half of DAO is what Gaider intended, and half of it--all the Frazetta-esque blood and guts and tits stuff that some of the fandom are convinced is what made Origins so great--is what some of the gameplay and art people wanted.
So I'm sorry to say it wasn't The Great Woke Conspiracy that killed your edgy darlings, it was just never actually intended to be that way.
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Post by asen0311 on Jul 6, 2024 16:30:38 GMT
I won't get into people's issues with Davrin but he's objectively the most handsome dude I've seen in one of these games but still doesn't cater to the Alistair/Cullen etc crowd. Why? Genuine question. At least superficially, he seems to be exactly the knight in shining armor type folks have been clamoring for. They only reason I can think of why he wouldn't fit the mold is... not nice, so I won't assume that. Maybe there's something else I'm missing. As for the rest, beauty standards are ultimately subjective. I would more or less agree that 1. Neve is beautiful (though not quite my type), 2. Harding and Bellara are cute, 3. Taash is rather plain (though maybe we've only gotten unflattering angles of her), and 4. whether we're talking romance or the character in general, writing and voice acting supersede looks (though I won't be one of those enlightened few who say they don't matter at all). I don't think my fellow straight men have much to complain about, since we're getting at least twice as many options as in DA:I and they're more conventionally attractive overall. It's exactly the not nice thing you're thinking. I have seen just enough backlash to him, and just enough people saying they don't find him attractive (or asking why there's no Alistair/Cullen - which is why I say he doesn't seem to appeal to that crowd - I should be nicer and not generalize and say *some* of that crowd) to be like what's the deal. He's exactly the kind of Grey Warden *I* want to romance except he's not a hot lady Warden, but I'm excited to romance him first of the guys when I get to it. And re: the women oh yeah I'm totally into everyone, Harding maybe the least but that's because I'm more interested in the new factions, and not a knock on her. Bellara has what seems like a glorious amount of hair in that huge bun. And Taash is fortunately exactly my "bored at the meeting" jock type of lady so. I know taste doesn't always overlap but I assumed straight guys had a lot to celebrate here too haha.
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The Rainbow Destined to Burn
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Post by jennica on Jul 6, 2024 16:40:19 GMT
They only reason I can think of why he wouldn't fit the mold is... not nice, so I won't assume that. I'm 99% convinced it's because of those not so nice reasons. 3. Taash is rather plain (though maybe we've only gotten unflattering angles of her), The trailer definitely didn't do her justice, but i like how she looks in the Lighthouse group screenshot (there are also two other screenshots of her but they are too blurry). While i think that Neve, Harding and Bellara are all attractive, Taash is the only female companion who's actually my type, which does show that people can have quite different tastes. I'm a bi woman and not a straight man tho. But as you said writing and voice are more important than looks, so it's not even guaranteed that i'll romance Taash, because i might as well not like her character.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jul 6, 2024 16:52:19 GMT
So I'm sorry to say it wasn't The Great Woke Conspiracy that killed your edgy darlings, it was just never actually intended to be that way. OK but why remove them from the games altogether? I'm totally fine with changing how they look, add a male version too for example. I just really like the concept of desire demons, they're cool and terrifying. All the demon types are because most people can't resist them. And the idea to be powerless is scary. I want them back in some form. There is no reason to remove just them while the other types are still around. So what then is the reason to remove them in your opinion?
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Post by The Dread Pronoun on Jul 6, 2024 17:20:08 GMT
So I'm sorry to say it wasn't The Great Woke Conspiracy that killed your edgy darlings, it was just never actually intended to be that way. OK but why remove them from the games altogether? I'm totally fine with changing how they look, add a male version too for example. I just really like the concept of desire demons, they're cool and terrifying. All the demon types are because most people can't resist them. And the idea to be powerless is scary. I want them back in some form. There is no reason to remove just them while the other types are still around. So what then is the reason to remove them in your opinion? That specific look connotes sexual desire (it was based on a D&D succubus, according to the misleading notes the artist was given). Desire Demons the concept were never supposed to be just about sexual desire. Gaider was taken back when he saw the design because of the weird undertone it creates with Connor's desires to see his dad get better, which is most certainly not sexual. If someone writes a quest where they need a sexual Desire Demon (particularly one that involves a heterosexual male or lesbian victim), I would expect to see that type return. "moDeRn" Bioware is certainly not averse to showing titty. If someone writes a quest that requires another type of Desire Demon, I would expect a different design (which would be refreshing imo). I don't see why we need to force that type of Desire Demon just for the cool points if they don't actually fit into any quest. A sexual (or any type) Desire Demon definitely wasn't the kind that would show up through a veil tear and stick around for anyone to fight it. They are supposed to be much more subtle in the lore.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jul 6, 2024 17:58:12 GMT
That specific look connotes sexual desire (it was based on a D&D succubus, according to the misleading notes the artist was given). Desire Demons the concept were never supposed to be just about sexual desire. Gaider was taken back when he saw the design because of the weird undertone it creates with Connor's desires to see his dad get better, which is most certainly not sexual. If someone writes a quest where they need a sexual Desire Demon (particularly one that involves a heterosexual male or lesbian victim), I would expect to see that type return. "moDeRn" Bioware is certainly not averse to showing titty. If someone writes a quest that requires another type of Desire Demon, I would expect a different design (which would be refreshing imo). I don't see why we need to force that type of Desire Demon just for the cool points if they don't actually fit into any quest. A sexual (or any type) Desire Demon definitely wasn't the kind that would show up through a veil tear and stick around for anyone to fight it. They are supposed to be much more subtle in the lore. I'm totally fine with having different types of desire demons tailored to the character's triggers. Nothing wrong with sexual desire being somebody's weakness though. Like I said, just improve them if they didn't look how they were supposed to. Don't just delete them.
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Post by Guardian on Jul 6, 2024 18:01:03 GMT
Why? Genuine question. At least superficially, he seems to be exactly the knight in shining armor type folks have been clamoring for. They only reason I can think of why he wouldn't fit the mold is... not nice, so I won't assume that. Maybe there's something else I'm missing. It's exactly the not nice thing you're thinking. I have seen just enough backlash to him, and just enough people saying they don't find him attractive (or asking why there's no Alistair/Cullen - which is why I say he doesn't seem to appeal to that crowd - I should be nicer and not generalize and say *some* of that crowd) to be like what's the deal. He's exactly the kind of Grey Warden *I* want to romance except he's not a hot lady Warden, but I'm excited to romance him first of the guys when I get to it. Yes...it's because....he's an ELF! There...I said it; I said what we're all thinking! It's because he's an elf and not a human!
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Post by Guardian on Jul 6, 2024 18:11:57 GMT
Now Laezel, I don't quite get the appeal. Aside from her sex drive being a plus, I would assume. I keep hearing it's something about her eyes? Not too fond of her voice either. Found it incredibly grating at first. She's fine as a character and my durge banged her but in terms of being attractive, I don't really get it. The gith I made myself is way prettier than her to me. But I guess it's not about her looks? (Let me know if I'm derailing this thread too much...) Lae'Zel is probably my other favorite romance other than Astarion. When it comes to looks I mostly hear people complimenting her eyes, lips and voice and I can kind of see it? However, if I was speaking for myself because I'm not a guy, she has some really beautiful growth in the romance that you don't get to see otherwise. This especially comes out when you actually lose a certain battle to her (you can win too, but losing is better to see her change imo). She even becomes quite poetic later on, while still believably remaining herself. I tend to enjoy romances with companions that go through the most change, option of growing for the better etc. so Lae'zel is now one of my favorite chick romances other than Morrigan and Cassandra. If I'm being completely honest, I personally don't find any of these new Bioware companions attractive, but at the same time I thought Cullen was beautiful and hated him. Good writing can go a long way for me even if the characters are not the most attractive bunch, but I would prefer both attractiveness and good writing. I can speak as a guy, and what crazymonkey said I agree with - she goes through so much personal growth and that just drew me in more to her. And regarding the physical attributes - her eyes, her lips, her voice - to me, she was perfect. Again though, I also have a ton of prior knowledge about the Githyanki/Githzerai (and what Vlaakith's actual deal is - for those that don't know, "ascension" is basically, when someone gets too powerful, she calls them in, kills them, absorbs their soul, and then says they were sent off on a journey for the nation).
Shadowheart just....I don't know...had a bunch of red flags to me when we first met (outside of being a Cleric of Shar). She was far too secretive and you never knew if she was being honest with you or just furthering her own agenda. Karlach....personality-wise, yes; she's very nice. Looks...eh...never been high on tieflings. But at the same time, the eternal optimist does grate on me a bit. Those that are constantly pessimists and those that are constantly optimists are the ones that scare me the most. Lae'zel, she told you how it was and what the deal is. You always knew where she stood, and where you stood in relation to her. And I love that about her; to someone not used to how Githyanki society is, sure, demanding sex like that can be a bit weird. But she, in my opinion, has one of the best growth arcs in the game (along with Shadowheart and Astarion). Gale does too, but that's for a different reason, and deals more with his own realization that he's just been a dumbass up until this point.
Harding is the only one I find attractive in the new crop; and she was nice before, but now? She got a glow-up. But yes, good writing can go a long way for any character. I think that's something a lot of people today seem to not realize - what's good writing, and what's bad writing.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 6, 2024 18:19:24 GMT
Seesh we have a 10 page thread over brothels?! We really need to get some news quickly.
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Post by asen0311 on Jul 6, 2024 18:20:05 GMT
They only reason I can think of why he wouldn't fit the mold is... not nice, so I won't assume that. I'm 99% convinced it's because of those not so nice reasons. 3. Taash is rather plain (though maybe we've only gotten unflattering angles of her), The trailer definitely didn't do her justice, but i like how she looks in the Lighthouse group screenshot (there are also two other screenshots of her but they are too blurry). While i think that Neve, Harding and Bellara are all attractive, Taash is the only female companion who's actually my type, which does show that people can have quite different tastes. I'm a bi woman and not a straight man tho. But as you said writing and voice are more important than looks, so it's not even guaranteed that i'll romance Taash, because i might as well not like her character. SAME SAME her shot in the group shot was exactly why I was like oof love her now.
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Post by sageoflife on Jul 6, 2024 18:27:42 GMT
It's exactly the not nice thing you're thinking. I have seen just enough backlash to him, and just enough people saying they don't find him attractive (or asking why there's no Alistair/Cullen - which is why I say he doesn't seem to appeal to that crowd - I should be nicer and not generalize and say *some* of that crowd) to be like what's the deal. He's exactly the kind of Grey Warden *I* want to romance except he's not a hot lady Warden, but I'm excited to romance him first of the guys when I get to it. Yes...it's because....he's an ELF! There...I said it; I said what we're all thinking! It's because he's an elf and not a human! That is admittedly a reason why some people aren't interested in him, but people not romancing him for that reason are generally quiet about it and prefer to focus on the people they are romancing. Also, I have heard other gay men say that they were more than a bit turned off by the way that the first two games just assumed that we would all want elves.
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Post by Gwydden on Jul 6, 2024 18:36:48 GMT
Karlach....personality-wise, yes; she's very nice. Looks...eh...never been high on tieflings. But at the same time, the eternal optimist does grate on me a bit. SAME SAME her shot in the group shot was exactly why I was like oof love her now. Funnily enough, both Taash and Karlach are tall muscular warrior women with horns and a crazy skin color, but I think the latter's easily the hottest (ha) companion in BG3 Any romance considerations aside, based on the little blurbs we've gotten about their personalities, Taash sounds like one of the Veilguard companions I would enjoy the most. I, too, hate work meetings. And if you're wondering about the overall preliminary ranking... Emmrich > Taash/Davrin > Harding > Neve/Bellara (got small concerns about both) > Lucanis (got BIG concerns).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 6, 2024 19:08:48 GMT
Seesh we have a 10 page thread over brothels?! We really need to get some news quickly. To be fair, most of it has had nothing to do with brothels.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jul 6, 2024 19:52:00 GMT
Sensitive topic but I'll post this anyway: Well, sexual attraction is something one cannot influence really. And there is nothing wrong with not being attracted to certain features. I did a quick search on the topic of same race preferences on top of the things I remember vaguely from stuff I read on it ages ago and found an interesting study. It basically says that ALL races prefer European faces overall. It's especially true for white male features. Asian women find European males very attractive. That probably explains Asia's obsession with white features. Interesting detail is that a blend of faces for each race is seen as more attractive than individual faces. Makes sense. I was surprised that mixed race faces were not deemed more attractive because that often is the case with me. So same race preference is not a thing at all except sometimes for men here. I read another study in which women prefer their own race more than men. So like all studies nothing is conclusive. Women rate male black faces as fairly attractive in this study while men rate female black faces as less attractive and they tentatively link this with perceived masculinity and femininity. Which explains why men often like Asian women and Asian women are into European faces and also African faces. Based on this study Davrin should be popular. But yes, white male romance options are apparently the most attractive to everyone. I still find that so weird tbh. But goes to show how different everyone can be. Me, I have always been into Asian men who are always rated lowest because less masculine. Granted, I don't usually like the very feminine pop star faces either, so think Lan from Wheel of Time for peak hotness. Sadly because Asian men are so unpopular with everyone I'm still waiting for one in my western RPGs. ;_; I find white Europeans often the least sexually attractive. Especially when they have blond hair. I assume that's the case because I'm a pale blonde myself so I seek somebody who looks very different. I also like Indian and Middle Eastern features. But on the other hand I admit I am not very attracted to very dark African features. I do find plenty of mixed race black men attractive though. Like the English soccer star Bellingham. Hot guy. So if there's racial bias towards Devrin it might be the black elf thing rather than just being black. He looks OK to me, hard to tell from the snippets. I would prefer he wasn't an elf though, I admit. I don't like elves dark skinned unless it's fantasy dark like purple colored dark elves in Elder Scrolls. (Edit: It's actually the African bone structure and not so much the skin color because I like brownish colored wood elves a lot. That probably makes it worse but I'm just being honest.) Call me racist for that, it's just how it is. I also struggle a bit with Bellara as an Asian elf. My brain needs to get used to it, I think. Too many Tolkien elf images in my head. Can't tell yet how attractive I'll find Davrin in the actual game. Voice is going to be a big factor as usual. I find Lucanis most attractive personally. As I said before Cullen was pretty but not my type because blond. So it's not about being white. My rambling 2 cents on this delicate topic. I hope it's not offensive.
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Post by phoray on Jul 6, 2024 19:53:14 GMT
Seesh we have a 10 page thread over brothels?! We really need to get some news quickly. Not really. Devolved into whether the female characters are hot enough for the male players and whether or not Bioware went woke or caters to women more now than they used to. And ya know what, fucking great if they do. Who else has? You know where else I get these sort of storylines? Niche visual novels.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jul 6, 2024 19:59:06 GMT
Seesh we have a 10 page thread over brothels?! We really need to get some news quickly. Not really. Devolved into whether the female characters are hot enough for the male players and whether or not Bioware went woke or caters to women more now than they used to. And ya know what, fucking great if they do. Who else has? You know where else I get these sort of storylines? Niche visual novels. It's all my fault. Blame me, it's fine. I can't game right now because I have fucked up thumbs so I got too much time to go crazy.
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Post by Gwydden on Jul 6, 2024 20:07:26 GMT
Not really. Devolved into whether the female characters are hot enough for the male players and whether or not Bioware went woke or caters to women more now than they used to. And ya know what, fucking great if they do. Who else has? You know where else I get these sort of storylines? Niche visual novels. Scarlet Hollow's pretty fun, just saying. I'm hanging around because I'm bored—nothing particularly interesting to play at the moment—, and I'm a sucker for fandom drama. Please, let's totally litigate the Brothel Question* and how hot the characters are! More seriously, I also find it interesting to see what draws people to certain companions. *If the team has interesting ideas that would benefit from a brothel, like specific quests or something like that, sure, I'm game. Not so much if they're just there for comic relief (never were that funny) or fanservice (I'm not spending my hard earned virtual cash for a fade to black or awkward cutscene!).
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Post by Reznore on Jul 6, 2024 20:19:55 GMT
Davrin is probably the hottest of the three new male LI, imho.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 6, 2024 20:42:46 GMT
Seesh we have a 10 page thread over brothels?! We really need to get some news quickly. Not really. Devolved into whether the female characters are hot enough for the male players and whether or not Bioware went woke or caters to women more now than they used to. And ya know what, fucking great if they do. Who else has? You know where else I get these sort of storylines? Niche visual novels. So, in other words, the thread devolved into another stupid and pointless culture war.
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Post by phoray on Jul 6, 2024 20:46:51 GMT
What made me become obsessed with Bioware was that when I found them in 2016 they were my first experience having a game that recognized I was *a woman* and that I could fall in love while saving the world. Or trying to keep the family together, ala DA2. The only other experience I'd had where my gender mattered was what men I could marry in Harvestmoon.
It legit changed me and my standards for games. I want to be a woman, recognized as a woman, in that I am NOT a man. Diablo, Borderlands, no recognition of you picked the female sprite over any of the other sprites. Tried Disco Elysium the other day only to find out you could only play a man. I also couldn't get it to work. So between the two, I turned it off and never intend to revisit it. Spiders is trying to do something Bioware-Esque, but didn't quite catch that romantic magic in Greedfall but their romances were also player sexual and I don't super recall that it mattered that I played a female sprite. Horizon Zero Dawn is 100% a woman seen as a woman, but falling in love is only available in the second game's DLC- and only with another woman. Detroit Become Human, super great, multi protagonist genius, can only have romance as a fixed protagonist that looks male with a NPC that looks female (I use looks because they're freaking robots and do they even have gender?) anyway.
My point is, Bioware is all I got as a woman, where I'm recognized as a woman, saving the world. falling in love with NPCs that are well written who fall in love with me because of my strength and accomplishments as I do so. That reactivity is wonderful. Literally it's nowhere else. And no, it's not a goddamn romance sim. Jesus, DAI was 220 hours if you did everything. Look up "Complete Cullen Romance Scenes" and there is an HOUR of content. An hour. Multiple that by the 9 romances available, and y'all know they weren't all treated equally, and that's 9 hours in a 220 hour game.
Also, Davrin is hot. Lucanis looks a untidy, like he hates himself. Emmrich is an OLD man. And they're catering to ME, "the female players" huh? Maybe if I were a lesbian 🤷🏻♀️ considering the four legitimately good looking women available. I so hope there are one night stands and casual stuff like they had in Andromeda.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jul 6, 2024 20:46:57 GMT
Blackwall is the only romanceable companion in Dragon Age games that I find genuinely attractive.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 6, 2024 20:49:31 GMT
Not really. Devolved into whether the female characters are hot enough for the male players and whether or not Bioware went woke or caters to women more now than they used to. And ya know what, fucking great if they do. Who else has? You know where else I get these sort of storylines? Niche visual novels. So, in other words, the thread devolved into another stupid and pointless culture war. have people not seen Neve and Harding?
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jennica
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by jennica on Jul 6, 2024 20:51:56 GMT
Blackwall is the only romanceable companion in Dragon Age games that I find genuinely attractive. He's not the only (male) companion that i find attractive, but it's so rare to see people saying that they find him attractive. I still can't get over the fact that over the years i saw so many people call him ugly old man.
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