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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 24, 2024 18:06:43 GMT
No, Hawke is a player character who served as an avatar that the players can make how they wish, only to have all that taken away and be bastardized in front of them. There is nothing that would have my Hawke say the love of his life is a monster like DAI Hawke does. Part of the problem was the way they interpreted the answers you gave in the Keep. I'm not sure if Hawke universally condemned blood magic (it is a while since I played the game) but I did discover that saying you disapproved of Anders actions (because I thought they meant in blowing up the Chantry which was what illustrated that choice) resulted in having a far more negative outlook towards the mage issue than if you said you supported him. There was no middle ground, so you could support mages having greater freedom but not using terrorism to achieve it. So, what may determine how things go forward with the Inquisitor is what choices they include in the game CC for them and then how they frame it. Of course, I would prefer they leave it entirely open for when the Inquisitor appears to voice their views but they said it would inform the game from the very beginning so some of it seems likely to feed into conversation about them even if it doesn't give them automatic dialogue that you don't approve of. |
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Post by KalleDemos on Jul 31, 2024 19:54:39 GMT
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Post by theascendent on Aug 4, 2024 22:19:01 GMT
If you just squint hard enough, you can probably pass off the Necromancer/Death Caller specialisation as a Blood Mage. Plenty dark magic in manipulating spirits and using the corpses of your enemies.
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Post by Reznore on Aug 5, 2024 1:10:58 GMT
If memory serves you need blood magic to bind spirits/demons. So logically, you'd need blood magic to stuff a spirit in a dead body.
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 5, 2024 2:27:19 GMT
The Mortalitasi themselves claim that they do not use blood magic.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2024 7:01:12 GMT
The Mortalitasi themselves claim that they do not use blood magic.  Then of course it must be true! Blood magic has been illegal in the south since the early days of the Chantry. The reason for this is that it is the form of magic most likely to be abused in the pursuit of power. Technically the prohibition was against magic that relies for its power on the letting of blood of others. Thus, this created a loophole that magic that involved blood in some way but did not derive its power the blood of others was not regarded as "blood magic". So, the use of phylacteries can be regarded as a form of blood magic, the Joining is a form of blood magic, etc, but is not against the prohibition. I would assume that the Mortalitasi apply a similar logic when they maintain they do not use blood magic because any blood involved in the practice is not actually providing the power source for its operation. Thus what they are doing is not illegal under Chantry law. However, it was made clear in DA2 the connection between magic involving the use of blood and necromancy. The renegade mages from Starkhaven were raising the dead/skeletons to fight for them and this involved "blood magic". Quentin, who also originated from Starkhaven, was using a perverted form of necromancy to recreate his wife and Orsino did the same at the end in order to turn himself into a monster and knew how to do this having read the same source material as Quentin. Presumably it was a similar knowledge that created the flesh golems in the DAO, DLC Golems of Amgarrak. Then in DAI the Wardens were using an actual blood magic sacrifice ritual to bind demons under the control of the mages doing the ritual. So, clearly there are connections between blood magic and the practices of the Mortalitasi, which is hardly surprising since the faction was founded by a Tevinter mage, and their denial is likely based on convenient equivocation purely because whilst blood is a necessary component in their rituals and may even be needed to bind the spirit to the corpse, it does not involve forcible blood letting of others not part of the ritual and is not powered by a magic source from somewhere other than the Fade, as blood magic does.
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 5, 2024 8:07:43 GMT
The Mortalitasi themselves claim that they do not use blood magic. Then of course it must be true! Blood magic has been illegal in the south since the early days of the Chantry. The reason for this is that it is the form of magic most likely to be abused in the pursuit of power. Technically the prohibition was against magic that relies for its power on the letting of blood of others. Thus, this created a loophole that magic that involved blood in some way but did not derive its power the blood of others was not regarded as "blood magic". So, the use of phylacteries can be regarded as a form of blood magic, the Joining is a form of blood magic, etc, but is not against the prohibition. I would assume that the Mortalitasi apply a similar logic when they maintain they do not use blood magic because any blood involved in the practice is not actually providing the power source for its operation. Thus what they are doing is not illegal under Chantry law. However, it was made clear in DA2 the connection between magic involving the use of blood and necromancy. The renegade mages from Starkhaven were raising the dead/skeletons to fight for them and this involved "blood magic". Quentin, who also originated from Starkhaven, was using a perverted form of necromancy to recreate his wife and Orsino did the same at the end in order to turn himself into a monster and knew how to do this having read the same source material as Quentin. Presumably it was a similar knowledge that created the flesh golems in the DAO, DLC Golems of Amgarrak. Then in DAI the Wardens were using an actual blood magic sacrifice ritual to bind demons under the control of the mages doing the ritual. So, clearly there are connections between blood magic and the practices of the Mortalitasi, which is hardly surprising since the faction was founded by a Tevinter mage, and their denial is likely based on convenient equivocation purely because whilst blood is a necessary component in their rituals and may even be needed to bind the spirit to the corpse, it does not involve forcible blood letting of others not part of the ritual and is not powered by a magic source from somewhere other than the Fade, as blood magic does. Animate Dead is a standard Spirt School spell in Origins. Just because blood magic can be used for necromancy, does not mean that all necromancy uses blood magic.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2024 10:03:36 GMT
Animate Dead is a standard Spirt School spell in Origins. Just because blood magic can be used for necromancy, does not mean that all necromancy uses blood magic. As you say it is from the spirit school and no real explanation was given in DAO as to the mechanics of this. However, since then various codices and evidence in game, would seem to suggest that blood may be involved in this. Much depends on how the spirits are being brought through the Veil? Something must be weakening the barrier of the Veil in that location in order to allow the spirits through. The theory has been put forward in game that for some reason blood letting does thin the Veil. Perhaps it isn't so much that it affects the Veil physically as the pain involved draws spirits/demons to the emotion produced and the sheer numbers pushing on the Veil cause it to temporarily thin and break, allowing them through. This makes more sense now we know the Veil is not part of the natural fabric of reality but an artificial construct. The Mortalitasi also maintain that when a person dies and their spirit/soul enters the Fade, it displaces a spirit there which crosses back through the Veil into the body. I don't exactly buy this explanation from them because it suggests the Fade can only contain a finite number of spirits, which seems odd to me. More likely when the person was near death, their emotion attracted the spirits which pushed on the Veil as I suggest above. Then as the person dies and their spirit crosses into the Veil, a spirit on the Fade side takes advantage of the path created and the Mortalitasi know how to bind the spirit immediately to the corpse to prevent it going any further or possessing anyone else. Sometimes, as in the story Down Among the Dead Men, this doesn't go smoothly and they lose control of the spirit/corpse, with unfortunate consequences for the person standing nearest to it at the time. No doubt, if the writers have been able to devise a better explanation for all this than we have been given thus far, Emmrich will explain it all through our conversations with him. Then hopefully we will have a better understanding of the process and necromancy generally, including how related it is to blood magic if at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2024 23:38:48 GMT
A game set in Tevinter but no blood magic spec? Not cool
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Post by river82 on Aug 13, 2024 0:00:22 GMT
*Looks at title* Stupid imo. Bioware has allowed people to walk evil paths for over 20 years for roleplay purposes. But now people aren't allowed because the devs don't want you to? Good job. Player agency has always been a cornerstone of Bioware games and they're supposed to be concentrating on the studio's strong points in their upcoming games. This is disappointing.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 13, 2024 0:03:44 GMT
*Looks at title* Stupid imo. Bioware has allowed people to walk evil paths for over 20 years for roleplay purposes. But now people aren't allowed because the devs don't want you to? Good job. Player agency has always been a cornerstone of Bioware games and they're supposed to be concentrating on the studio's strong points in their upcoming games. This is disappointing. player agency has never been bios strong point. That's more Bethesdas thing. Also this is what you get for only reading the title. |
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Post by river82 on Aug 13, 2024 0:05:41 GMT
*Looks at title* Stupid imo. Bioware has allowed people to walk evil paths for over 20 years for roleplay purposes. But now people aren't allowed because the devs don't want you to? Good job. Player agency has always been a cornerstone of Bioware games and they're supposed to be concentrating on the studio's strong points in their upcoming games. This is disappointing. player agency has never been bios strong point. That's more Bethesdas thing. Also this is what you get for only reading the title. Different avenues of player agency. Bethesda is go anywhere and do everything, Bioware has player choices affect the game or the story. You could be evil in BG or KOTOR with consequences versus you can join every guild in Skyrim or Morrowind. And no I read what the dev said. It's stupid
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Post by colfoley on Aug 13, 2024 0:37:41 GMT
player agency has never been bios strong point. That's more Bethesdas thing. Also this is what you get for only reading the title. Different avenues of player agency. Bethesda is go anywhere and do everything, Bioware has player choices affect the game or the story. You could be evil in BG or KOTOR with consequences versus you can join every guild in Skyrim or Morrowind. And no I read what the dev said. It's stupid Maybe it could've been said better but largely agree with Patrick's point. Blood magic has always been horribly handled and it's removal does not preclude the possibility of morally gray or morally dark choices. In some cases quite the opposite. |
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Post by river82 on Aug 13, 2024 0:42:43 GMT
Different avenues of player agency. Bethesda is go anywhere and do everything, Bioware has player choices affect the game or the story. You could be evil in BG or KOTOR with consequences versus you can join every guild in Skyrim or Morrowind. And no I read what the dev said. It's stupid Maybe it could've been said better but largely agree with Patrick's point. Blood magic has always been horribly handled and it's removal does not preclude the possibility of morally gray or morally dark choices. In some cases quite the opposite. 100%. For games that always been to a certain extent moulded by player choices, he really shouldn't talk about what roads the devs want players to walk down. Yes they are the "DM" but it's not much of an "illusion of choice/control" if you just flat out say things horribly in the media. The illusion is important for a reason. Also in the TEN YEARS they've had between Inquisition and Veilguard I'm a bit disappointed they didn't find a solution. Maybe in the TEN YEARS they'll have after Veilguard they can put their thinking caps on
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Post by colfoley on Aug 13, 2024 6:27:17 GMT
Maybe it could've been said better but largely agree with Patrick's point. Blood magic has always been horribly handled and it's removal does not preclude the possibility of morally gray or morally dark choices. In some cases quite the opposite. 100%. For games that always been to a certain extent moulded by player choices, he really shouldn't talk about what roads the devs want players to walk down. Yes they are the "DM" but it's not much of an "illusion of choice/control" if you just flat out say things horribly in the media. The illusion is important for a reason. Also in the TEN YEARS they've had between Inquisition and Veilguard I'm a bit disappointed they didn't find a solution. Maybe in the TEN YEARS they'll have after Veilguard they can put their thinking caps on All games have roads that a player can't go on. The level of player control is relative in games but in any setting, even D&D, some of the options are limited by the rule book and the story the DM wants to tell. For video games we see things all over in the spectrum. Actually Mark Darrah did an amazing job explaining this to which I meant to post here but keep forgetting: Now I am always a fan of a middle ground of such things. I don't think that Player Agency should come before telling an interesting story with nuanced themes and powerful characters and BioWare has always hit that middle ground. On one extreme you have Bethesda, Fallout, and Skyrim. A virtual sandbox in the genre where you can do almost everything you want in that sand box regardless of consequences and everything is optional, everything can die even in some cases. The trouble is the game is then a lot more shallow, in essense a game where you can do anything becomes a game with no meaning and no depth in characters or presentation. Then you have CDPR and the Witcher on the other end of the spectrum which has an amazing on rails protagonist and thus huge thematic significance, very powerful characters and plots, but Geralt feels like a passive passenger in the world rather then an active hero. BioWare has always, for me, hit that perfect middle, generally. Your protagonists are on rails enough where you are playing a distinct role and crafts a world with actual consequences and rules, but gives you more power then the other side of the coin to where they can actively participate in the world. And for these reasons I don't think Blood Magic can be fixed. Not logically anyways, or without pissing off a whole lot of people (maybe including me), for entirely different reasons. It would either require a major change in how Blood Magic works (and has always worked) or a major change in how Thedas as a society views magic in general and blood magic in particular. I think most of this and most of DAs problems in general has to do with the first game really is not designed with a franchise and sequels in mind. If they did then they probably would have handled blood magic much differently.
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Then of course it must be true!