Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Nov 7, 2016 22:25:17 GMT
BioWare: Well because Andromeda has a lot of resources... And as The Illusive Man says about the Lazarus Project space magic: It's always a matter of resources
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Post by dalinne on Nov 7, 2016 22:36:28 GMT
Cerberus did it
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Post by armass81 on Nov 7, 2016 22:43:05 GMT
The real question is: why go settle Andromeda when we can settle the Milk Way? Come on we know the real answer to that:
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Post by napoleon on Nov 7, 2016 22:48:31 GMT
This is getting to the point where it's just depressing. If you already hate the game so much and find it so terribly offensive then why are you here?
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Post by KirkyX on Nov 7, 2016 22:51:19 GMT
Five million years isn't a very long time in astronomical terms. No, but it is for humans. I think what sageoflife meant is that, right now - or rather, in 2185 - we can point our ultra-mega-telescopes - that are, nonetheless, limited to lightspeed - at Andromeda, and see what was there five million years ago. As five million years is a relatively short stretch of time in astronomical terms, there's a very good chance that any habitable planets that were there five million years ago will still be there now--y'know, once you've accounted for cosmic drift and such. Earth, for example, has been able to support complex land-based life for at least the last 363 million years, and will only cease to be habitable somewhere between 1.75 and 3.25 billion years from now. We won't know exactly what we're getting into - that's the point of the game, after all; we're explorers - but the chances of every 'Golden World' candidate - assuming we chart more than a couple - having become uninhabitable in that five-million year window should be infinitesimally small. Of course, I'm on record as not really being overly fussed about whatever lore changes they want to make - I've been enjoying science fiction for far too long to allow inconsistencies to bother me that much - so I wouldn't actually care if they'd somehow invented Star Trek-style megasensors that worked beyond the speed of light - say, they took the same principle applied to the non-entangled FTL communication signals and expanded on it, for the appropriate technobabble - but I actually don't think that'd be necessary for this particular aspect of the Andromeda story.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Nov 8, 2016 1:10:10 GMT
Looks like BioWare also forgot that sensor technology is limited to light speed. That means they would have to wait 5 million years to detect planets in Andromeda, it being 2.5 million years away. Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? Earth had life and was habitable for way more than 5 million of years you know. Anyway, the GameInformer article mention one of these planets flagged has habitable and it is actually not habitable (no water and too hot). Pick your poison: the propaganda recruiting video is embellishing things or their criteria for "golden planets" are very wide.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 8, 2016 1:11:32 GMT
Looks like BioWare also forgot that sensor technology is limited to light speed. That means they would have to wait 5 million years to detect planets in Andromeda, it being 2.5 million years away. Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? Earth had life and was habitable for way more than 5 million of years you know. Anyway, the GameInformer article mention one of these planets flagged has habitable and it is actually not habitable (no water and too hot). Pick your poison: the propaganda recruiting video is embellishing things or their criteria for "golden planets" are very wide. Oh that video screams propaganda. Which I bet it will be a plot point.
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Nov 8, 2016 1:18:21 GMT
Pretty sure the planet clusters detected with sensors will last longer than 5 million years. Depending on the cluster detected, it would still be a legit destination.
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Post by QueenoftheLiz on Nov 8, 2016 1:25:18 GMT
Hey we have stuff like quantum entaglement communicators too(which would pretyy much be mandatory on a missions suchs as these), but I bet you a million credits we dont have one on the arks or the nexus, or somehow they all get "destroyed. Because we cant talk with Milky way cause of the endings, now, can we? Just pretend it makes sense, even if it doesnt. Just pretend... Just... goddammit, why did they have to fuck this up so bad. I don't see how that's so unbelievable. The reapers started their invasion after the arks left, so any quantum entanglement communicators in the Milky Way could easily have been destroyed then.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Nov 8, 2016 1:25:19 GMT
Looks like BioWare also forgot that sensor technology is limited to light speed. That means they would have to wait 5 million years to detect planets in Andromeda, it being 2.5 million LIGHT years away. Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? Andromeda is a bit less than 10 billion years old. That means the galaxy has been sending light this way for about double the age of our Solar System. So try harder with your science...
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 8, 2016 1:27:41 GMT
I'm wait to see more, but it doesn't seem to be a good start or explanation for the lore jump. Though I already made my peace with it. I just don't get why they wouldn't try to make the jump as lore friendly as possibly (assuming it isn't as it happens right now).
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fatherjerusalem
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Nov 8, 2016 1:32:35 GMT
Thank god we don't have a "It's still the BSN and we're still going to bitch about god damned everything" drinking game, I'd have gone into liver failure today.
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Post by malanek on Nov 8, 2016 1:36:58 GMT
What they are detecting is what happened 2.5 million years ago. So when you get there you might find things are a bit different than what you thought you might find. As far as I am aware Bioware have not claimed anything to the contrary.
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Nov 8, 2016 1:37:04 GMT
Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? You and five others are the only ones who give a fuck about lore.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Nov 8, 2016 1:46:06 GMT
Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? You and five others are the only ones who give a fuck about lore. From what i have been seeing, more like f*** the lore...
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 8, 2016 1:52:26 GMT
Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? You and five others are the only ones who give a fuck about lore. That's not true. Plenty of people cares about the lore, on different degrees.
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Post by Arcian on Nov 8, 2016 2:01:01 GMT
Looks like BioWare also forgot that sensor technology is limited to light speed. That means they would have to wait 5 million years to detect planets in Andromeda, it being 2.5 million LIGHT years away. Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? Andromeda is a bit less than 10 billion years old. That means the galaxy has been sending light this way for about double the age of our Solar System. So try harder with your science... You're right, I was thinking of RADAR and LADAR which are the two main forms of sensors used by ME ships. Even so, the inverse square law makes such detection methods impossible even at gamma ray burst intensities. With that said: The light from the Andromeda is not enough to reveal planets. Trying to look for habitable planets in Andromeda is like looking for bacteria-inhabited grains of sand on a beach at night in moonlight while standing on the moon.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Nov 8, 2016 2:14:18 GMT
Take into consideration that we already can "see" planets hundreds of light years away detecting the minor changes in light when the planet crosses the star it orbits thanks to the Kepler space probe, and the James Webb telescope is supposed to be even better if everything goes as planned. So i don't think it would be to far off to believe technology to look at planets in another galaxy could exist in the ME universe more than 150 years in the future.
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Post by jasonshepardn7 on Nov 8, 2016 2:17:31 GMT
Not 5 million years. That's completely the wrong number. It's not like we're firing a laser at Andromeda and waiting for the light to bounce off any planets and back to us. You have no reason to double the 2.5 million years that it takes light to traverse the distance. Andromeda is already emitting light, it's just light that is 2.5 million years old by the time it gets to us. So there isn't a waiting problem, and 5 million years shouldn't enter into the equation at all. The Andromeda Initiative is presumably just using some kind of super-telescope to examine the light already coming from the Andromeda galaxy. As an example age of a planet, Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. That's 3 orders of magnitude beyond the length of time that it takes light to travel from Andromeda to us. So yes, any planets that the Andromeda Initiative is looking at will actually be 2.5 million years older than they appear, but they will almost certainly still be there. As it happens, in the real world, we may have already detected a planet in the Andromeda galaxy. It's a somewhat controversial result, but here: exoplanet.eu/catalog/pa-99-n2_b/ Note the insanely large distance of 670,000 parsecs, and the fact that "star in galaxy M31" is listed under remarks - M31 means Andromeda. Detecting whether or not a planet is a garden world is trickier, but it has been done with closer exoplanets. It mostly involves looking for spectral lines from light passing through the planet's atmosphere. That said, the result I've listed above, if confirmed, is far too big to be Earth-like. It's more than 6 times the size of Jupiter. But at the end of the day, spotting exoplanets is mostly a question of telescope resolution, and being able to spot a star 'wobbling'. Our real world tech isn't really at the level where we can reliably detect exoplanets in Andromeda - but Mass Effect technology might be there. As for the in-universe question of why can't we see Reapers if we can see planets in Andromeda - Reapers are in Dark Space, are small and dark themselves (compared to planets), and probably aren't orbiting a convenient star that we could look at for wobbles. They basically don't put out enough light to be spotted. We only spot planets by looking at a planet's host star and noticing it wobbling.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 8, 2016 2:31:01 GMT
Looks like BioWare also forgot that sensor technology is limited to light speed. That means they would have to wait 5 million years to detect planets in Andromeda, it being 2.5 million years away. Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? Not 5 million years. That's completely the wrong number. It's not like we're firing a laser at Andromeda and waiting for the light to bounce off any planets and back to us. You have no reason to double the 2.5 million years that it takes light to traverse the distance. Andromeda is already emitting light, it's just light that is 2.5 million years old by the time it gets to us. So there isn't a waiting problem, and 5 million years shouldn't enter into the equation at all. The Andromeda Initiative is presumably just using some kind of super-telescope to examine the light already coming from the Andromeda galaxy. As an example age of a planet, Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. That's 3 orders of magnitude beyond the length of time that it takes light to travel from Andromeda to us. So yes, any planets that the Andromeda Initiative is looking at will actually be 2.5 million years older than they appear, but they will almost certainly still be there. As it happens, in the real world, we may have already detected a planet in the Andromeda galaxy. It's a somewhat controversial result, but here: exoplanet.eu/catalog/pa-99-n2_b/ Note the insanely large distance of 670,000 parsecs, and the fact that "star in galaxy M31" is listed under remarks - M31 means Andromeda. Detecting whether or not a planet is a garden world is trickier, but it has been done with closer exoplanets. It mostly involves looking for spectral lines from light passing through the planet's atmosphere. That said, the result I've listed above, if confirmed, is far too big to be Earth-like. It's more than 6 times the size of Jupiter. But at the end of the day, spotting exoplanets is mostly a question of telescope resolution, and being able to spot a star 'wobbling'. Our real world tech isn't really at the level where we can reliably detect exoplanets in Andromeda - but Mass Effect technology might be there. As for the in-universe question of why can't we see Reapers if we can see planets in Andromeda - Reapers are in Dark Space, are small and dark, and probably aren't orbiting a convenient star that we could look at for wobbles. They basically don't put out enough light to be spotted. We only spot planets by looking at a planet's host star and noticing it wobbling. ^This. Arcian, I'm all for calling out the asspulls as we see them, but you didn't think this one through. No one claimed to have bounced and received a signal. We look at the heavens all the time. It's how we know anything at all about what the heck exists "out there". The idea that they see a planet in Andromeda in 2176-2185, given all we've seen and done in this series, is completely reasonable. In this particular case, I'm not seeing the big screw up.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 8, 2016 2:40:01 GMT
/thread?
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theflyingzamboni
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Sorry, my face is tired from dealing with... everything.
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Nov 8, 2016 2:50:28 GMT
Looks like BioWare also forgot that sensor technology is limited to light speed. That means they would have to wait 5 million years to detect planets in Andromeda, it being 2.5 million years away. Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? Mountains of salt It's not at all infeasible. Looks like you forgot that passive sensors are a thing. We already predict the elements that objects like stars and planets are composed of. We can determine the elemental composition of a star using spectroscopy, and to a lesser extent can do something similar for planets. We can also extrapolate density of a planet by observing the amount of gravitational force it exerts on its parent star and the area it eclipses in transit. This also provides some information. So given another 150 years, it's not at all unreasonable that we would have the technology to detect planets in star clusters from another galaxy, and be able to make reasonable predictions about the concentrations of valuable elements. Two and a half million years is not going to make all that much difference in terms of what we'd find when we got there. EDIT: Looks like some people have already addressed this. Ah well. Anyway, stay salty BSN.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 8, 2016 3:07:24 GMT
No, but it is for humans. I think what sageoflife meant is that, right now - or rather, in 2185 - we can point our ultra-mega-telescopes - that are, nonetheless, limited to lightspeed - at Andromeda, and see what was there five million years ago. As five million years is a relatively short stretch of time in astronomical terms, there's a very good chance that any habitable planets that were there five million years ago will still be there now--y'know, once you've accounted for cosmic drift and such. Earth, for example, has been able to support complex land-based life for at least the last 363 million years, and will only cease to be habitable somewhere between 1.75 and 3.25 billion years from now. We won't know exactly what we're getting into - that's the point of the game, after all; we're explorers - but the chances of every 'Golden World' candidate - assuming we chart more than a couple - having become uninhabitable in that five-million year window should be infinitesimally small. Very much this. BTW, it's only 2.5 million years in the past, worst case 2.7 million if the cluster is on the far edge of Andromeda. Not sure why Arcian made it 5 million. If it was a "golden world" 2.5 million years ago, chances are good it still is. So what's the beef? If you want to complain about something, complain about how they resolved an open cluster in the galactic disk of Andromeda. It's hard to tell which stars are close together and in the cluster, or not in the cluster and nearer but dim, or not in the cluster and farther and bright. It all looks the same from here. And it has to be an open cluster, because globular clusters usually orbit galaxies as satellites. Not to mention a bunch of other problems, like low metallicity of the stars.
EDIT: Oh crap, and what jasonshepardn7 said -- nevermind not being able to resolve a planet and it's characteristics, you can't even detect that stars are in a cluster.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 8, 2016 3:08:27 GMT
Any remaining lore consistency died along with Chris L'Etoile and Drew's departures, but I still think there's a somewhat fine illusion of lore being meaningful. They do still refer to dates and people we remember and I like that Alec was working with Jon Grissom.
As for the scienece of anything leading from ME Trilogy to Andromeda, just forget it. It's implausible no matter what, but the asinine ME3 ending forced their hand so they took the best fan crackpot theory they could find; "The Ark Theory" and ran with it and now they're re-proving themselves capable of investing their fans in a new start for Mass Effect, which may or may not excell when compared to the trilogy.
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fatherjerusalem
N2
I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Nov 8, 2016 3:45:33 GMT
Any remaining lore consistency died along with Chris L'Etoile and Drew's departures, but I still think there's a somewhat fine illusion of lore being meaningful. They do still refer to dates and people we remember and I like that Alec was working with Jon Grissom. As for the scienece of anything leading from ME Trilogy to Andromeda, just forget it. It's implausible no matter what, but the asinine ME3 ending forced their hand so they took the best fan crackpot theory they could find; "The Ark Theory" and ran with it and now they're re-proving themselves capable of investing their fans in a new start for Mass Effect, which may or may not excell when compared to the trilogy. But... the posts above you just showed how plausible it actually is, so...
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