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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 8, 2016 4:07:07 GMT
Looks like BioWare also forgot that sensor technology is limited to light speed. That means they would have to wait 5 million years to detect planets in Andromeda, it being 2.5 million years away. Do you guys still want to assert that BioWare gives a fuck about the lore? Wouldn't this technically apply to a recent source of light? Like, if a star went supernova the moment you decided to observe in its direction, then that light would take millions of years to reach you, but a celestial body that's been around millions of years prior to your existence would already have light reaching you; you'd just be seeing it as it was millions of years in the past.
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Post by KirkyX on Nov 8, 2016 13:05:03 GMT
I think what sageoflife meant is that, right now - or rather, in 2185 - we can point our ultra-mega-telescopes - that are, nonetheless, limited to lightspeed - at Andromeda, and see what was there five million years ago. As five million years is a relatively short stretch of time in astronomical terms, there's a very good chance that any habitable planets that were there five million years ago will still be there now--y'know, once you've accounted for cosmic drift and such. Earth, for example, has been able to support complex land-based life for at least the last 363 million years, and will only cease to be habitable somewhere between 1.75 and 3.25 billion years from now. We won't know exactly what we're getting into - that's the point of the game, after all; we're explorers - but the chances of every 'Golden World' candidate - assuming we chart more than a couple - having become uninhabitable in that five-million year window should be infinitesimally small. Very much this. BTW, it's only 2.5 million years in the past, worst case 2.7 million if the cluster is on the far edge of Andromeda. Not sure why Arcian made it 5 million. If it was a "golden world" 2.5 million years ago, chances are good it still is. So what's the beef? If you want to complain about something, complain about how they resolved an open cluster in the galactic disk of Andromeda. It's hard to tell which stars are close together and in the cluster, or not in the cluster and nearer but dim, or not in the cluster and farther and bright. It all looks the same from here. And it has to be an open cluster, because globular clusters usually orbit galaxies as satellites. Not to mention a bunch of other problems, like low metallicity of the stars.
EDIT: Oh crap, and what jasonshepardn7 said -- nevermind not being able to resolve a planet and it's characteristics, you can't even detect that stars are in a cluster.Yeah, I realised I hadn't actually looked up the number of light years between here and Andromeda after I made my post.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 13:24:47 GMT
No, but seriously it's time to let it go. Old lore doesn't exist. Read everything as if you never played ME before, otherwise there is only nonsense and retcons. Yeah, I'm not going to do that. I fell in love with the original Mass Effect, not this abomination wearing Mass Effect's skin. Then, it's simple for you... you'll not be playing this new game. Why keep trying to discourage other people from enjoying it? You're not going to convince them to change their lore for this new game now. You're not doing the original Mass Effect any favors either... which was full of holes and inconsistencies even on its own. They started with faulty lore and now you don't want to let them depart from it. How does that make any sense?
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Post by Arcian on Nov 8, 2016 22:01:34 GMT
Yeah, I'm not going to do that. I fell in love with the original Mass Effect, not this abomination wearing Mass Effect's skin. Then, it's simple for you... you'll not be playing this new game. Why keep trying to discourage other people from enjoying it? You're not going to convince them to change their lore for this new game now. You're not doing the original Mass Effect any favors either... which was full of holes and inconsistencies even on its own. They started with faulty lore and now you don't want to let them depart from it. How does that make any sense? All it takes for bad companies to prevail is for consumers to say nothing.
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Nov 8, 2016 22:07:30 GMT
Then, it's simple for you... you'll not be playing this new game. Why keep trying to discourage other people from enjoying it? You're not going to convince them to change their lore for this new game now. You're not doing the original Mass Effect any favors either... which was full of holes and inconsistencies even on its own. They started with faulty lore and now you don't want to let them depart from it. How does that make any sense? All it takes for bad companies to prevail is for consumers to say nothing. You think Bioware gives a good god damn what some people on a fan made message board say? You want to show them "the error of the ways" or whatever, just don't buy their games. But just like on the official BSN (may it rest in peace), the negativity man... the negativity is just a fucking downer. Like, honestly, isn't it exhausting being so negative literally ALL THE TIME?
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Post by bshep on Nov 8, 2016 22:27:42 GMT
Not going to lie if the series didn't invoke any kind of good feelings on me i would have stopped playing (like i did with Assassin's Creed).
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 22:33:32 GMT
All it takes for bad companies to prevail is for consumers to say nothing. You think Bioware gives a good god damn what some people on a fan made message board say? You want to show them "the error of the ways" or whatever, just don't buy their games. But just like on the official BSN (may it rest in peace), the negativity man... the negativity is just a fucking downer. Like, honestly, isn't it exhausting being so negative literally ALL THE TIME? Hell, they didn't care what people said on their own official boards!
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 22:33:59 GMT
So is "golden world" the new term for "garden world" now?
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Post by sageoflife on Nov 8, 2016 22:38:32 GMT
So is "golden world" the new term for "garden world" now? My guess is that it's shorthand for the Goldilocks Zone. There's a lot more guesswork involved with extragalactic planets, so they can't be sure if a planet within the habitable zone is a garden world. I assume they have plans for terraforming.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Nov 8, 2016 22:40:35 GMT
Then, it's simple for you... you'll not be playing this new game. Why keep trying to discourage other people from enjoying it? You're not going to convince them to change their lore for this new game now. You're not doing the original Mass Effect any favors either... which was full of holes and inconsistencies even on its own. They started with faulty lore and now you don't want to let them depart from it. How does that make any sense? All it takes for bad companies to prevail is for consumers to say nothing. This isn't a lore change. It is literally how telescopes work. A few million years is NOT a long time, astronomically speaking. I'm sure there will be plenty of actual things to be upset about... But this isn't one.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Nov 8, 2016 22:46:48 GMT
This isn't a lore change. It is literally how telescopes work. A few million years is NOT a long time, astronomically speaking. I'm sure there will be plenty of actual things to be upset about... But this isn't one. Did people sleep through all their science classes in school (refuse to believe someone in a science college course you do that), because some of the misconceptions i keep seeing here are absurd.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 22:48:27 GMT
So is "golden world" the new term for "garden world" now? My guess is that it's shorthand for the Goldilocks Zone. There's a lot more guesswork involved with extragalactic planets, so they can't be sure if a planet within the habitable zone is a garden world. I assume they have plans for terraforming. Makes sense
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 8, 2016 22:52:15 GMT
So is "golden world" the new term for "garden world" now? It might just be a phonetic misspelling, just like some people write "should of" instead of "should have". The Helius cluster is spelled "Heleus cluster" in the orientation video help texts, and the AI website claims that we travel to Andromeda to establish a new home world at one point and because of resource rich planets at another. My guess is several writers and sub-optimal proofreading.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 22:58:54 GMT
Then, it's simple for you... you'll not be playing this new game. Why keep trying to discourage other people from enjoying it? You're not going to convince them to change their lore for this new game now. You're not doing the original Mass Effect any favors either... which was full of holes and inconsistencies even on its own. They started with faulty lore and now you don't want to let them depart from it. How does that make any sense? All it takes for bad companies to prevail is for consumers to say nothing. Well, just to let you know... your strategy isn't working. I applaud Bioware for sticking to it and making this game despite all the "negative-ness" you and others have heaped upon them through it all. My respect for them has grown actually. I am very much intrigued by the new story and the new locations. Right now, I'm anticipating enjoying this game very much; and I'm quite willing to part with the old Mass Effect lore to get into this new story.
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Post by gendocrono on Nov 9, 2016 0:54:34 GMT
Did you consider that the REAL purpose of Andromeda Initiative is something else than "oh it's cool over there, so we go, trolololo" ? Did you consider that this could be a freaking bullshit and part of a huge plot of the game ? In any case, that's what Yanick Roy might have suggested on twitter.
And about the whole "fuck science and lore" thread.
Then, i guess there has always been fails in ME lore since ME 1. So what ? Does that means this was bad ? Hell no Does that means Andromeda will be bad ? Hell why Does that means that if you accept this inconsistency in order to enjoy the game, then you are a bad retarded/sheep/player who make work easier to Bioware ? Hell that's rude
It really bores me when i see such inconsistency in lore, because lore is meaningful to me. I guess we don't have the choice... or maybe yes, we have, we have the choice to enjoy the game after all =o
(and damn, give them a chance, the game is not even release =__=, as i say, you love the first trilogy after all, despites the same problems)
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Post by helios969 on Nov 9, 2016 1:18:12 GMT
Well, I know I would appreciate the lore being consistent even if from a scientific and engineering perspective it's complete nonsense. Replacing said nonsense with even worse nonsense is annoying, particularly when I had come up with my own plausible interpretation behind the "science" of Mass Effect. I'd rather not start over.
Let's just pretend that long range probe was dropped down a wormhole on an express trip to the Andromeda galaxy...outfitted with QEC's. Let's face it if we think too hard on this we're all going go fucking bananas.
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Post by Addictress on Nov 9, 2016 1:41:35 GMT
This is fine. The timescale for habitability on a planet can last millions of years, especially since the factors for habitability even now are only factoring in orbital distance and general chemical composition.
Scientists today observe potential habitable exoplanets with the Hubble and we call them presently habitable even though we are looking at images millions of years old. Life evolved over millions of years.
The scientists of mass Effect can also lol at the surrounding asteroids and stuff to just figure whether the destination planets are blown to smithereens by the time they get there calculating long-term trajectories.
Even if the life they saw potentially evolving in the historical data are extinct by arrival, there is archaeological value.
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Post by Addictress on Nov 9, 2016 1:52:36 GMT
I also want to point out they probably filtered the planets for ones that are near the beginning of habitability, and not doing world about to dry up.
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hsomcokesniper
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Post by hsomcokesniper on Nov 9, 2016 8:27:36 GMT
What bothers me more is the lack of explanation why such an expedition exists in the first place. Timeline puts the project in a place where there wasn't even a general consensus of the Reaper threat.
With much of the freaking mass relay system still uncharted I don't see any point in scanning another Galaxy at all.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 9, 2016 8:29:44 GMT
What bothers me more is the lack of explanation why such an expedition exists in the first place. Timeline puts the project in a place where there wasn't even a general consensus of the Reaper threat. With much of the freaking mass relay system still uncharted I don't see any point in scanning another Galaxy at all. So far the reason doesn't seem to be the Reapers' threat, based on what is said. We'll probably know more in the coming months.
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Post by Arcian on Nov 9, 2016 11:06:38 GMT
All it takes for bad companies to prevail is for consumers to say nothing. Well, just to let you know... your strategy isn't working. I applaud Bioware for sticking to it and making this game despite all the "negative-ness" you and others have heaped upon them through it all. My respect for them has grown actually. I am very much intrigued by the new story and the new locations. Right now, I'm anticipating enjoying this game very much; and I'm quite willing to part with the old Mass Effect lore to get into this new story. Yeah, yeah, you'll be disappointed in the end just like the people who voted for Hillary Clinton.
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Post by gendocrono on Nov 9, 2016 13:25:49 GMT
Well, just to let you know... your strategy isn't working. I applaud Bioware for sticking to it and making this game despite all the "negative-ness" you and others have heaped upon them through it all. My respect for them has grown actually. I am very much intrigued by the new story and the new locations. Right now, I'm anticipating enjoying this game very much; and I'm quite willing to part with the old Mass Effect lore to get into this new story. Yeah, yeah, you'll be disappointed in the end just like the people who voted for Hillary Clinton. Arcian, what are you trying to do ? This is a true question, i just don't understand. All i read from you is like "Bioware fucked up everything [insert exemple] and they will fuck up Andromeda, YOU WILL SEE." Ok then, how could you know ? From one trailer ? From Game informer note ? Ok, so what about the 70+ hours of gameplay incoming with Mass Effect Andromeda ? Don't you think we would have a better opinion after playing the game ? But even so, you just seem mad for some reason and i don't understand why. Are you a troll or just someone disappointed for some reason (and which ones ?) << true question, i don't want to argue with you, just to understand. Hey, i understood that some fails in the lore may bore you, but why do you pretend the game would be necessarily a disappointment ?
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Post by LFS on Nov 9, 2016 13:46:12 GMT
Well, just to let you know... your strategy isn't working. I applaud Bioware for sticking to it and making this game despite all the "negative-ness" you and others have heaped upon them through it all. My respect for them has grown actually. I am very much intrigued by the new story and the new locations. Right now, I'm anticipating enjoying this game very much; and I'm quite willing to part with the old Mass Effect lore to get into this new story. Yeah, yeah, you'll be disappointed in the end just like the people who voted for Hillary Clinton. Or, you know, there's always the wild possibility that he won't. Stop projecting your own bullshit onto someone else.
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Stealing Your Bike ;)
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Post by deebo305 on Nov 9, 2016 14:01:12 GMT
Ah yes "Lore", we have dismissed this claim
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Post by azarhal on Nov 9, 2016 14:08:41 GMT
So is "golden world" the new term for "garden world" now? It might just be a phonetic misspelling, just like some people write "should of" instead of "should have". The Helius cluster is spelled "Heleus cluster" in the orientation video help texts, and the AI website claims that we travel to Andromeda to establish a new home world at one point and because of resource rich planets at another. My guess is several writers and sub-optimal proofreading. Heleus is a proper spelling... Golden world is (like a previous poster mentioned) probably a reference to the Goldilocks zone which is the zone around a star where the conditions means planets are the most likely to have liquid water (and by extension life). That would suggest they used the same method we currently have to find planets. As for the "new home" vs "resource rich planets", these are both par of colonization. Rich people invest in colonization for a chance to make a profit, individuals joins because they think the grass is greener elsewhere.
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