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Post by Arcian on Nov 7, 2016 22:30:10 GMT
Uh, excuse me, but having the ability to journey 600 years without refueling or discharging is extremely useful in military situations. It basically eliminates the need for supply lines. We don't know the method used. For all we know in order to bypass the discharge problem the ship has to be roughly the size of the citadel. No, we actually know that's not it. The bigger a ship is, the faster the eezo core reaches charge saturation, which means a larger ship has to discharge more often.
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Post by Cyonan on Nov 7, 2016 22:30:56 GMT
We don't know the method used. For all we know in order to bypass the discharge problem the ship has to be roughly the size of the citadel. And so why not build warships the size of the citadel? It was against galactic law to even have too many dreadnought class ships, which are puny compared to the Citadel. Remember that nobody with influence actually believed Shep about the Reapers, so building such a ship would have likely been viewed as hostile by every other species. and once they show up, all resources went into the Crucible.
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Post by Arcian on Nov 7, 2016 22:31:40 GMT
Why do I feel like Arcian and SofNascimento are not going take any other answer other than Bioware sucks. It is quite obvious it's a retcon. But at this point if Bioware wants to respect players decisions in ME3 and avoid the adressing the catastrophe that is ME3's ending they are going to have retcon. Frankly I don't really care. None of the info they have given us is offensively lore-breaking. I'm sure they will provide us with some sort of excuse for why nobody mentioned it but that doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme and it won't ruin the game. The only thing I care about here is that I get more Mass Effect. Yes it is. Almost all of it is offensively lore-breaking.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2016 22:32:31 GMT
OK Arcian, master of lore, correct me if I am wrong and...well I probably am...but I thought the idea of discharging drives was supposed to do it in places where it wouldn't exactly effect anything, ie middle of space, atmos of gas giants... wouldn't the inter galactic void be a perfect place to discharge ones drive?
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Post by helios969 on Nov 7, 2016 22:33:05 GMT
Because it is a major achievement. For example, when Kaiden is talking about how the Citadel dwarfs Jump Zero or Arcturus Station, wouldn't it be prudent for someone to say the Nexus is actually almost as big as the Citadel? We don't mention CERN in every day conversation. Nor the Lunar Landings nor most things that happen in human history really. But you are very much aware of it's existence...which is what makes the AI very much a retcon annoyance.
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Post by armass81 on Nov 7, 2016 22:33:26 GMT
We don't know the method used. For all we know in order to bypass the discharge problem the ship has to be roughly the size of the citadel. No, we actually know that's not it. The bigger a ship is, the faster the eezo core reaches charge saturation, which means a larger ship has to discharge more often.
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 7, 2016 22:34:15 GMT
And so why not build warships the size of the citadel? It was against galactic law to even have too many dreadnought class ships, which are puny compared to the Citadel. Remember that nobody with influence actually believed Shep about the Reapers, so building such a ship would have likely been viewed as hostile by every other species. and once they show up, all resources went into the Crucible. But that's a totally different thing. Dreadnoughts are the pinnacle of military vessels. But now we know that they shouldn't be, because we know we can build much larger, more advanced ships.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2016 22:34:32 GMT
We don't mention CERN in every day conversation. Nor the Lunar Landings nor most things that happen in human history really. But you are very much aware of it's existence...which is what makes the AI very much a retcon annoyance. So option 1. everyone is aware of it and they chose not to talk about it for reaons I already discussed. Or option 2 very few people know about it, or know the details, and hence no one would have a reason to talk about it.
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Post by fade9wayz on Nov 7, 2016 22:35:09 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2016 22:35:42 GMT
It was against galactic law to even have too many dreadnought class ships, which are puny compared to the Citadel. Remember that nobody with influence actually believed Shep about the Reapers, so building such a ship would have likely been viewed as hostile by every other species. and once they show up, all resources went into the Crucible. But that's a totally different thing. Dreadnoughts are the pinnacle of military vessels. But now we know that they shouldn't be, because we know we can build much larger, more advanced ships. Do we know the Arks are actually that advanced? Where have they said that? All we know is they have cryogenics capable of reaching another galaxy. Cryogenic technology was even on the original Normandy.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 7, 2016 22:35:56 GMT
OK Arcian, master of lore, correct me if I am wrong and...well I probably am...but I thought the idea of discharging drives was supposed to do it in places where it wouldn't exactly effect anything, ie middle of space, atmos of gas giants... wouldn't the inter galactic void be a perfect place to discharge ones drive? No it requires access to the magnetic field of a planetary body. However, we know deep space station are equipped with devices capable of discharging a ship safely and the Reapers don't seem to require discharging at all, so we know there are ways around this.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 7, 2016 22:36:33 GMT
Why do I feel like Arcian and SofNascimento are not going take any other answer other than Bioware sucks. It is quite obvious it's a retcon. But at this point if Bioware wants to respect players decisions in ME3 and avoid the adressing the catastrophe that is ME3's ending they are going to have retcon. Frankly I don't really care. None of the info they have given us is offensively lore-breaking. I'm sure they will provide us with some sort of excuse for why nobody mentioned it but that doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme and it won't ruin the game. The only thing I care about here is that I get more Mass Effect. Then they should own up to it and call it a retcon. Because, yes, it is offensively lore-breaking without a damn good reason for why this tech exists, has apparently existed for years (the project apparently started in 2176, years before ME1) despite the codex stating that wide tracts of space without discharge capability are a barrier for exploration. And nobody thought to bring such a massive project up when even a delusional volus looking for "beings of light" gets a mention.
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Post by napoleon on Nov 7, 2016 22:37:50 GMT
Why do I feel like Arcian and SofNascimento are not going take any other answer other than Bioware sucks. It is quite obvious it's a retcon. But at this point if Bioware wants to respect players decisions in ME3 and avoid the adressing the catastrophe that is ME3's ending they are going to have retcon. Frankly I don't really care. None of the info they have given us is offensively lore-breaking. I'm sure they will provide us with some sort of excuse for why nobody mentioned it but that doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme and it won't ruin the game. The only thing I care about here is that I get more Mass Effect. Yes it is. Almost all of it is offensively lore-breaking. Really? Then I feel sorry things as small the stuff they showed in a video game trailer offend you. Would you prefer they just not make Andromeda? No more Mass Effect for anyone?
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Post by helios969 on Nov 7, 2016 22:38:57 GMT
But you are very much aware of it's existence...which is what makes the AI very much a retcon annoyance. So option 1. everyone is aware of it and they chose not to talk about it for reaons I already discussed. Or option 2 very few people know about it, or know the details, and hence no one would have a reason to talk about it. Rationalize anyway you want to and more power to you for blindly accepting Bio's willingness to throw any piece of halfbaked logic at you.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 7, 2016 22:39:42 GMT
OK Arcian, master of lore, correct me if I am wrong and...well I probably am...but I thought the idea of discharging drives was supposed to do it in places where it wouldn't exactly effect anything, ie middle of space, atmos of gas giants... wouldn't the inter galactic void be a perfect place to discharge ones drive? No it requires access to the magnetic field of a planetary body. However, we know deep space station are equipped with devices capable of discharging a ship safely and the Reapers don't seem to require discharging at all, so we know there are ways around this. And in 2185, we didn't know what those methods are, or else there'd be colony ships all over the freaking galaxy and the relay network would be a mere convenience, not an absolute necessity for galactic civilization.
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Post by wolfsite on Nov 7, 2016 22:42:26 GMT
- The time period that the initiative happened was when Shepard was, at the latest, under house arrest or, at the earliest, dead or was operating with Cerberus to stop the collectors. Shepard would be seen as liability under any of those instances thus Shepard was not brought into the loop (When Shepard took down the Shadow Broker the Illusive Man learned the location of the base due to the tracking devices on the Normandy so that is a very high risk). - They stated it was privately organized, Cerberus was able to build the SR-2 and revive Shepard without anyone finding out aside from the Shadow Broker (and that was only because they had to get Shepard's body from him). - There are people who believed in Shepard's warning about the Reapers so enough of these people are capable of putting the initiative together. - Of note there was also the special Task Force that investigated the mysteries of the Universe that Shepard had no knowledge of until Leviathan DLC in ME3 so you can keep large secrets if you try. - The Citadel archive in the Citadel DLC revealed that the council believed the Reaper threat but hid it under the guise of takeover attempt by Saren, again showing how easy it is to deceive people about what is actually going on. -------------- Also remember, the was a holo of an Arc in the Citadel Archives so it could have been a subtle hint to the next phase and we just didn't interpret it as such.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2016 22:42:37 GMT
So option 1. everyone is aware of it and they chose not to talk about it for reaons I already discussed. Or option 2 very few people know about it, or know the details, and hence no one would have a reason to talk about it. Rationalize anyway you want to and more power to you for blindly accepting Bio's willingness to throw any piece of halfbaked logic at you. Or rationalize away my perfectly logical arguments on why people would not be talking about something they may or may not even know about in the first place. Believe me this has come up in other fictional settings from time to time. "oh why wouldn't they mention event X in the future it was really big!" except a tv show/ video game/ movie only looks on a relatively small slice of life and even in real life there are loads of times we do not mention any number of current events or historical events that are very important and big. Heck I think its been three days since I mentioned the conflict in Syria, Israel, or CERN for instance.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 7, 2016 22:45:39 GMT
No it requires access to the magnetic field of a planetary body. However, we know deep space station are equipped with devices capable of discharging a ship safely and the Reapers don't seem to require discharging at all, so we know there are ways around this. And in 2185, we didn't know what those methods are, or else there'd be colony ships all over the freaking galaxy and the relay network would be a mere convenience, not an absolute necessity for galactic civilization. The galaxy at large doesn't know, but that doesn't mean a team of scientists, say, with access to Sovereign's drive core, couldn't have figured it out while the superstructure for the AI ships were under construction and modified them accordingly.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Nov 7, 2016 22:47:06 GMT
They'll patch the trilogy with content about the AI, so you can have Shep having a small talk about the project with Anderson or Udina or some other SOB
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 7, 2016 22:48:13 GMT
The real problem is not even that they retconned the original trilogy in a colossal way, making many things irrelevant and greatly shattering the coherence of the universe. I can just pretend (in a way it's not really pretending) Andromeda don't exist when I replay the trilogy.
The problem is, what can we truly expect for Andromeda from the people who thought this was a good idea? What kind of story they can deliver?
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Post by lezio on Nov 7, 2016 22:52:28 GMT
Rationalize anyway you want to and more power to you for blindly accepting Bio's willingness to throw any piece of halfbaked logic at you. Or rationalize away my perfectly logical arguments on why people would not be talking about something they may or may not even know about in the first place. Believe me this has come up in other fictional settings from time to time. "oh why wouldn't they mention event X in the future it was really big!" except a tv show/ video game/ movie only looks on a relatively small slice of life and even in real life there are loads of times we do not mention any number of current events or historical events that are very important and big. Heck I think its been three days since I mentioned the conflict in Syria, Israel, or CERN for instance. I think mentioning the existence of a big-ass ship during a war against big-ass ships would kind of make sense, especially if the whole plan is about "building this thing we know nothing about and hope it works". Hell, the galaxy is BIG. If the Reapers took as much time in destroying other planets as they did Earth, i feel like building a couple of those things would have been possible (not taking in consideration the resources to actually build them, because if we did than this ship's existence is just non-sensical at best[in lore, i don't think even Protheans ever managed to build something that size. Maybe the cannon that destroyed that one Reaper Cerberus was studying in ME2 comes close, but dunno])
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Post by lezio on Nov 7, 2016 22:55:05 GMT
The real problem is not even that they retconned the original trilogy in a colossal way, making many things irrelevant and greatly shattering the coherence of the universe. I can just pretend (in a way it's not really pretending) Andromeda don't exist when I replay the trilogy. The problem is, what can we truly expect for Andromeda from the people who thought this was a good idea? What kind of story they can deliver? Giving them the benefit of the doubt here. The story, and the game itself, could even be decent, but, from the trailer, i almost get the impression that "Mass Effect" is just gonna be the name of the game. Much like Fallout 4 (good game, not really a Fallout)
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Post by Iakus on Nov 7, 2016 22:55:16 GMT
And in 2185, we didn't know what those methods are, or else there'd be colony ships all over the freaking galaxy and the relay network would be a mere convenience, not an absolute necessity for galactic civilization. The galaxy at large doesn't know, but that doesn't mean a team of scientists, say, with access to Sovereign's drive core, couldn't have figured it out while the superstructure for the AI ships were under construction and modified them accordingly. Oh, of course! They managed to reverse engineer Sovereign's drive core, then build 4-5 of them for ships that are dreadnought+-sized all in the space of two years because they already built these massive ships without having a clue how they were going to get them to Andromeda. God thing Sovereign attacked or that would have been a colossal waste of time!
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Post by Cyonan on Nov 7, 2016 22:56:10 GMT
As far as the trip itself goes, you don't actually need fuel for a 600 year trip. You need enough fuel to get up to speed, slow yourself down once there, and then a little bit to get around and find some local fuel. 99% of the trip would involve drifting through space with your thrusters turned off. Since there's no friction to slow you down, you'll eventually get there. As for discharging that depends on if the mass effect field needs to stay up the entire time or not. The whole thing becomes theoretical because once you're going faster than light our current physics model falls apart, but changing the mass of the ship after it's already up to speed shouldn't matter and you theoretically should only need the mass effect fields while accelerating or decelerating provided you want to travel in a straight line. Mass Effect has never really stated how well this works or not though and like I said, it's all theoretical because going faster than light has a habit of breaking everything we know about physics. It was against galactic law to even have too many dreadnought class ships, which are puny compared to the Citadel. Remember that nobody with influence actually believed Shep about the Reapers, so building such a ship would have likely been viewed as hostile by every other species. and once they show up, all resources went into the Crucible. But that's a totally different thing. Dreadnoughts are the pinnacle of military vessels. But now we know that they shouldn't be, because we know we can build much larger, more advanced ships. How does that break anything though? Nothing in Mass Effect lore ever said it was impossible to build bigger ships. Everything we know about physics right now in addition to the rules of the Mass Effect universe suggests that it should be fairly easy to build ships bigger than Dreadnoughts if you have the money. The money as well as the treaty would be the two main factors stopping you from building such a warship prior to the Reapers showing up.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 22:57:44 GMT
Shepard was too busy slaying that asari tang to worry about it
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