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Post by pdusen on Nov 8, 2016 12:56:35 GMT
This kind of argument is really weak. It's like if I were to criticize ME1 because we never knew by then that Drells and Collectors existed... Yup. It still blows my mind that people seriously believe that the entire Mass Effect universe is limited to only things that we've seen in game before, as if every NPC has perfect knowledge of the setting they live in.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 8, 2016 13:29:49 GMT
Because the writers hadn't come up with it. The same reason we never heard of Vorcha or Drell in ME1.
In universe, because it never came up. Construction had not yet been completed when the SR-1 was destroyed and the Andromeda Initiative left either before Shepard woke up, while she was preoccupied with the Collectors, or when she was detained on Earth. And after departure there wouldn't have been much reason to discuss it.
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 8, 2016 13:43:53 GMT
Well, the obvious reason is that the writers weren't even dreaming of Andromeda when they made the original trilogy.
But the explanation in game should be interesting. During the original trilogy, all starfaring species rely on reaper technology for interstellar travel, so achieving intergalactic travel should be an incredibly awesome milestone - like jumping from coal power plants to fusion reactors while skipping nuclear power. If we are suddenly capable of intergalactic travel, that means we are also capable of interstellar travel without relying on reaper relays. No longer would we need to rely on a few fixed jump points, we could check out any star system within the Milky Way without being restricted by the relay system. This jump of technology would actually finally enable us to fully explore the Milky Way, but no, we skip that and head right into the unknown with a one way ticket.
Can't wait to see the asspull on this one.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 8, 2016 13:53:00 GMT
It privately funded and everyone signed the NDA.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 8, 2016 14:23:43 GMT
It privately funded and everyone signed the NDA. That is some NDA then if true. Honestly though...the reason why doesn't matter all that much I think.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 14:40:54 GMT
Well, the obvious reason is that the writers weren't even dreaming of Andromeda when they made the original trilogy. But the explanation in game should be interesting. During the original trilogy, all starfaring species rely on reaper technology for interstellar travel, so achieving intergalactic travel should be an incredibly awesome milestone - like jumping from coal power plants to fusion reactors while skipping nuclear power. If we are suddenly capable of intergalactic travel, that means we are also capable of interstellar travel without relying on reaper relays. No longer would we need to rely on a few fixed jump points, we could check out any star system within the Milky Way without being restricted by the relay system. This jump of technology would actually finally enable us to fully explore the Milky Way, but no, we skip that and head right into the unknown with a one way ticket. Can't wait to see the asspull on this one. I don't see the technology aspect as being a milestone at all. Why should anyone be getting super excited about technology that can get you where you want to go in a few years when you have technology that can get you there in a few minutes! I don't see why it's even new tech. It's just a brute force approach: Worried about discharging? Build a structure so big it can carry it's own discharging facilities. Worried about fuel? Use thrusters at the start and end and coast the rest of the way. Worried about the time it takes? Go to sleep for a few centuries. Sure, it'll work, but it's hardly practical for every day use!
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 8, 2016 15:10:15 GMT
I don't see the technology aspect as being a milestone at all. Why should anyone be getting super excited about technology that can get you where you want to go in a few years when you have technology that can get you there in a few minutes! I don't see why it's even new tech. It's just a brute force approach: Worried about discharging? Build a structure so big it can carry it's own discharging facilities. Worried about fuel? Use thrusters at the start and end and coast the rest of the way. Worried about the time it takes? Go to sleep for a few centuries. Sure, it'll work, but it's hardly practical for every day use! My point was: why not use this technology to explore all those millions of star system within the Milky Way that don't have a relay first. The relays were the limit for interstellar travel before, now they aren't anymore. Same effort. Same reward (a new system to settle and exploit). Tiny fraction of the time required. Once you arrive at the Andromeda galaxy, this would be your only way of interstellar travel anyway, unless Andromeda also has a relay like alien technology installed. So why go to a different galaxy and ignore all the options in the current one that become available now?
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 15:39:58 GMT
This kind of argument is really weak. It's like if I were to criticize ME1 because we never knew by then that Drells and Collectors existed... Yup. It still blows my mind that people seriously believe that the entire Mass Effect universe is limited to only things that we've seen in game before, as if every NPC has perfect knowledge of the setting they live in. Because Mass Effect lore put a hard limit on galactic exploration. Now all of a sudden some private group with "resources" manged to throw all that away. And conveniently, no one ever mentioned it. This is as stupid as the Lazarus Project.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 15:42:03 GMT
Well, the obvious reason is that the writers weren't even dreaming of Andromeda when they made the original trilogy. But the explanation in game should be interesting. During the original trilogy, all starfaring species rely on reaper technology for interstellar travel, so achieving intergalactic travel should be an incredibly awesome milestone - like jumping from coal power plants to fusion reactors while skipping nuclear power. If we are suddenly capable of intergalactic travel, that means we are also capable of interstellar travel without relying on reaper relays. No longer would we need to rely on a few fixed jump points, we could check out any star system within the Milky Way without being restricted by the relay system. This jump of technology would actually finally enable us to fully explore the Milky Way, but no, we skip that and head right into the unknown with a one way ticket. Can't wait to see the asspull on this one. I don't see the technology aspect as being a milestone at all. Why should anyone be getting super excited about technology that can get you where you want to go in a few years when you have technology that can get you there in a few minutes! I don't see why it's even new tech. It's just a brute force approach: Worried about discharging? Build a structure so big it can carry it's own discharging facilities. Worried about fuel? Use thrusters at the start and end and coast the rest of the way. Worried about the time it takes? Go to sleep for a few centuries. Sure, it'll work, but it's hardly practical for every day use! Everyday use like the exploration of 99% of the Milky Way galaxy unreachable via relay?
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Post by saberchic on Nov 8, 2016 15:50:15 GMT
I don't really see the need for it to be mentioned. Our focus in the other game is something else entirely. The Andromeda Initiative is one of the many things happening in the background for us honestly. Who cares if it wasn't mentioned in the trilogy; we're hearing about it now.
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Post by hammerstorm on Nov 8, 2016 15:53:38 GMT
I am just going to quote myself from another thread:
I don't understands everybody's need to point out that X person or X organization SHOULD know about this project. Of course should they had known about it, IF it had been planned from the beginning. But we all know that ME:A was made because they wanted to escape from ME3 (and make money) so of course there will be things that is not making perfect sense.
Why can't people just be happy that we got SOMETHING instead of cutting everything apart? (Even before we have the full story)
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Post by deebo305 on Nov 8, 2016 15:55:31 GMT
I'm guessing because the story hadn't been written yet. Just a guess. The power of logic is strong in this one Seriously no one has the whole story written out from start to finish, hell look at just about ANY SciFi series ever made
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 15:55:31 GMT
I don't see the technology aspect as being a milestone at all. Why should anyone be getting super excited about technology that can get you where you want to go in a few years when you have technology that can get you there in a few minutes! I don't see why it's even new tech. It's just a brute force approach: Worried about discharging? Build a structure so big it can carry it's own discharging facilities. Worried about fuel? Use thrusters at the start and end and coast the rest of the way. Worried about the time it takes? Go to sleep for a few centuries. Sure, it'll work, but it's hardly practical for every day use! Everyday use like the exploration of 99% of the Milky Way galaxy unreachable via relay? Fair enough, but my point is, the technology doesn't need to be new. If they want to use cryo sleep then they can already travel to anywhere they want now and they don't even need a huge ship to facilitate discharge facilities since the Galaxy is filled with readily available discharge facilities in the form of stars and planets anyway. The only thing that's a milestone with respect to the AI is the fact that they are going further than mankind has ever gone before. Same as Apollo 11 was a milestone or climbing mount Everest for the first time, or going to the North Pole. It'll fill the news channels for a while when it launches (which is not a period when Shepard was necessarily even conscious) but, apart from that, it's not something that is likely to be filling the airwaves or the public consciousness during the period that we follow Shepard in game.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 16:11:25 GMT
Everyday use like the exploration of 99% of the Milky Way galaxy unreachable via relay? Fair enough, but my point is, the technology doesn't need to be new. If they want to use cryo sleep then they can already travel to anywhere they want now and they don't even need a huge ship to facilitate discharge facilities since the Galaxy is filled with readily available discharge facilities in the form of stars and planets anyway. The only thing that's a milestone with respect to the AI is the fact that they are going further than mankind has ever gone before. Same as Apollo 11 was a milestone or climbing mount Everest for the first time, or going to the North Pole. It'll fill the news channels for a while when it launches (which is not a period when Shepard was necessarily even conscious) but, apart from that, it's not something that is likely to be filling the airwaves or the public consciousness during the period that we follow Shepard in game. Cryo sleep is actually the aspect that makes the most sense, as we already know that tech exists. But places to discharge the core stands as a barrier to exploration. Codex: Citadel Space:
Citadel space is an unofficial term referring to any region of space controlled by a species that acknowledge the authority of the Citadel Council. At first glance, it appears this territory encompasses most of the galaxy. In reality, however, less than 1% of the stars have been explored.
Even mass-effect-FTL drive is slow relative to the volume of the galaxy. Empty space and systems without suitable drive discharge sites are barriers to exploration. Only the mass relays allow ships to jump hundreds of light years in an instant, the key to expanding across an otherwise impassable galaxy.
Whenever a new relay is activated, the destination system is rapidly developed. From that hub, FTL drive is used to expand to nearby star clusters. The result is a number of densely-developed clusters thinly spread across the vast expanse of space, connected by the mass relay network. The events of ME2 take place in the same year this fleet launches. One would think it would still be a Big Deal, as such tech would effectively mean an end to reliance on the relay network. It could, in fact, mean a new era of colonization. Heck the quarians would be soiling their suits just with the knowledge that such tech was possible!
In addition, one would think such tech would have been tested on a small scale first, right? Someplace within this galaxy?
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 8, 2016 16:31:34 GMT
It was initially developed for the very local exploration you're going on about but then really upscaled because someone actually believed Shepard and felt they needed to get out of Dodge.
Seriously how is this hard for you to understand? If Bioware fails to acknowledge or outright contradicts this, then I'll be right with you but for now, it can and does work. Deal with it.
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Post by bshep on Nov 8, 2016 16:38:40 GMT
But the tech does exist inside ME Universe. There are discharge stations around the Citadel to help ships with the eletrical build up. It's not a big jump to believe the arks carry their own discharge stattions around.
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hsomcokesniper
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Post by hsomcokesniper on Nov 9, 2016 8:36:34 GMT
Apparently it was so secret even the Shadow Broker didn't seem to know about it. (Or wasn't interested enough to track it which, in a way, is even more unbelievable.)
So all in all I think we would be much happier if we can just accept the retcon and move on.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 9, 2016 10:49:43 GMT
Due to the sheer scope of the project, the multiple species involved and that it must have required a lot of funding from various sources, I doubt that anyone involve in the Andromeda Initiative expected it to remain a secret.
Despite the Normandy SR1 being a top-secret prototype in ME1, it's existence seems to have been known to the public. Khalisah even comments on Shepard being given command of an advanced Alliance warship during her interview. Shepard can confirm that the Normandy was a joint-collaboration between Turian and Human engineers, but that's all they are at liberty to say that doesn't involve classified information.
My suspicion is that the Andromeda Initiative and the Arks probably have a similar status when it comes to their secrecy. The public knows that the Initiative exists, but everything relating to the project is kept hush-hush, so all they can do is speculate.
As for why Shepard never hears of it in ME2-3, the ship might have already departed during the time they were dead, in the Terminus or under house-arrest. It was either old news, considered a massive boondoggle doomed to fail, or something everyone forgot about once the Reapers began kicking down everyone's doors.
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Post by helios969 on Nov 9, 2016 10:54:45 GMT
It privately funded and everyone signed the NDA. That is some NDA then if true. Honestly though...the reason why doesn't matter all that much I think. They went the Snake Plissken route and planted all participants with microcharges lodged in their jugglers.
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Post by Nwalmenil on Nov 9, 2016 11:03:13 GMT
So much negativity.. Did you guys really get this jaded by the ME3 ending? Sure it might end up being retconned in but as several people already stated it could be explained without too big a problem as well. Secret project, mainly following a busy Shep in the trilogy and so on. Hell, if they're really ambitious they could go in and patch the older games and add a few codex entries if need be. I personally think they've got some explanation that works. And even if there's a slight gap in the logic? Well I can cope!
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 9, 2016 11:30:01 GMT
Cryo sleep is actually the aspect that makes the most sense, as we already know that tech exists. But places to discharge the core stands as a barrier to exploration. Codex: Citadel Space:
Citadel space is an unofficial term referring to any region of space controlled by a species that acknowledge the authority of the Citadel Council. At first glance, it appears this territory encompasses most of the galaxy. In reality, however, less than 1% of the stars have been explored.
Even mass-effect-FTL drive is slow relative to the volume of the galaxy. Empty space and systems without suitable drive discharge sites are barriers to exploration. Only the mass relays allow ships to jump hundreds of light years in an instant, the key to expanding across an otherwise impassable galaxy.Thanks for the quote, I was wondering where in the Codex this apparent contradiction that people keep citing was found! It says that the lack of discharge is a barrier to exploration but it doesn't say that it's an insuperable barrier. The passage was simply designed to highlight the revolution that the mass relays had on Galactic exploration and expansion. I still maintain that we don't need new tech. Just build a ship big enough to carry it's own discharge facilities and you're set. At this point, though, even if they found new tech that meant ships didn't need to discharge or could discharge in empty space it still wouldn't make that tech much of a game changer compared to the Relays. The relative snail's pace of FTL travel would always make travel beyond easy reach of the Relays unnecessary and pointless. Of course, you could argue that the AI falls under the same heading of unnecessary and pointless but many would have argued the same about the Lunar Landing. The point of the AI is not about the potential rewards or payback but about the spirit of adventure. The US strove to be the first country to set foot on the moon. Humanity now strives to be the first Milky Way race to set foot in another Galaxy. The arguments about, why go to Andromeda when there's so much unexplored in the Milky Way, rather misses the point!
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 9, 2016 11:36:36 GMT
There are a great number of codex entries that the arks really ignore, for example:
"The amount of element zero and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive."
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 9, 2016 11:43:53 GMT
There are a great number of codex entries that the arks really ignore, for example: "The amount of element zero and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive." I don't see why that implies anything is being ignored. It says it's expensive not impossible. Clearly the mission has a very rich benefactor!
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 9, 2016 11:55:19 GMT
There are a great number of codex entries that the arks really ignore, for example: "The amount of element zero and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive." I don't see why that implies anything is being ignored. It says it's expensive not impossible. Clearly the mission has a very rich benefactor! But that's an extremely simplistic view, to say the very least. If indeed that was the case you could expect stuff like massive warships that are much bigger than dreadnoughts, colossal space stations the size of the Citadel, many missions across the centuries to colonize planets far from the Relays, etc.
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Nwalmenil
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Nov 11, 2021 22:30:15 GMT
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nwalmenil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nwalmenil on Nov 9, 2016 12:18:49 GMT
I don't see why that implies anything is being ignored. It says it's expensive not impossible. Clearly the mission has a very rich benefactor! But that's an extremely simplistic view, to say the very least. If indeed that was the case you could expect stuff like massive warships that are much bigger than dreadnoughts, colossal space stations the size of the Citadel, many missions across the centuries to colonize planets far from the Relays, etc. Building the arks might not have been quite as expensive as it'd been to build warships of the same size? Less armaments, less shielding, not as sophisticated CIC's, basically just big tubs with engines and a whole bunch of cryo sysetms? Sure, it might still be a stretch, but not so big it seems impossible.
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