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Post by Thrombin on Nov 9, 2016 12:19:51 GMT
I don't see why that implies anything is being ignored. It says it's expensive not impossible. Clearly the mission has a very rich benefactor! But that's an extremely simplistic view, to say the very least. If indeed that was the case you could expect stuff like massive warships that are much bigger than dreadnoughts, colossal space stations the size of the Citadel, many missions across the centuries to colonize planets far from the Relays, etc. Building a space station has nothing to do with the prohibitive expense of an exponentially large drive core since a space station doesn't need a drive core! For all we know there are already space stations that size although it would be cheaper and more convenient to just build a facility on a planet or moon, of course. Why blow your military budget on a super-dreadnought when you can have multiple normal dreadnoughts or other ships? Particularly since something that big would be less maneuverable and a bigger target! As for the last one. Once we discovered the relays there would have been no need to use FTL to go anywhere the relays couldn't reach. What would be the point of starting a colony so far removed from any possible hope of aid from Earth when there are so many places you could colonize with easy access to Earth's resources. It takes a visionary and someone with more money than a Government budget to get something like the AI off the ground. Someone who doesn't have to answer to anyone to justify the cost-effectiveness or potential return of such a venture. In this case the individual in question, assuming they plan on going with, can liquidate their entire estate to fund the project. They're never coming back for it!
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Post by grallon on Nov 9, 2016 12:59:07 GMT
... It takes a visionary and someone with more money than a Government budget to get something like the AI off the ground. Someone who doesn't have to answer to anyone to justify the cost-effectiveness or potential return of such a venture. In this case the individual in question, assuming they plan on going with, can liquidate their entire estate to fund the project. They're never coming back for it! Cerberus would know since the funding behind it comes, presumably, from the same sources as the funding behind this 'initiative'. Alliance command would know - who would let the chance to get the technology capable of freeing you from the shackles of the relay network slip? They'd appropriate it right away. And if all these people know then the Reapers would know as well. Sovereign had been monitoring the activities of the advanced species for years before he made his move in 2183. You don't think the Reapers wouldn't want this new technology for themselves? You think they'd allow the target of the next harvest to flee? The whole thing is nonsensical.
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 9, 2016 13:12:51 GMT
But that's an extremely simplistic view, to say the very least. If indeed that was the case you could expect stuff like massive warships that are much bigger than dreadnoughts, colossal space stations the size of the Citadel, many missions across the centuries to colonize planets far from the Relays, etc. As for the last one. Once we discovered the relays there would have been no need to use FTL to go anywhere the relays couldn't reach. What would be the point of starting a colony so far removed from any possible hope of aid from Earth when there are so many places you could colonize with easy access to Earth's resources. None at all. But infinitely more than setting colonies in Andromeda.
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Post by umbrage00 on Nov 9, 2016 13:36:59 GMT
As for the last one. Once we discovered the relays there would have been no need to use FTL to go anywhere the relays couldn't reach. What would be the point of starting a colony so far removed from any possible hope of aid from Earth when there are so many places you could colonize with easy access to Earth's resources. None at all. But infinitely more than setting colonies in Andromeda. The same could be said about the moon landing or the exploration of mars. There is no economic gain in landing on them or in colonising them, yet we still put billions of dollars into space exploration. I think most trips are driven by curiosity, and the desire to learn more. Perhaps we wanted to go to Andromeda to meet a new "dominant" alien species of a new galaxy. But most importantly, and as someone has already pointed out: The writers didn't plan in advance to have us go to the Andromeda galaxy. In my opinion, it was a good call to start anew and dodge any position-taking regarding the ending of ME3 (the other option would have been a prequel, which is just ! bleh !)
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Post by Nwalmenil on Nov 9, 2016 14:11:55 GMT
Maybe we just wanted to "seed" Andromeda?
Tuck away a (hopefully) safe colony that would be safe for threats in the milky way? Let them thrive by themselves and know that whatever happens over here, we're still around?
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 9, 2016 14:49:53 GMT
None at all. But infinitely more than setting colonies in Andromeda. The same could be said about the moon landing or the exploration of mars. There is no economic gain in landing on them or in colonising them, yet we still put billions of dollars into space exploration. I think most trips are driven by curiosity, and the desire to learn more. Perhaps we wanted to go to Andromeda to meet a new "dominant" alien species of a new galaxy. But most importantly, and as someone has already pointed out: The writers didn't plan in advance to have us go to the Andromeda galaxy. In my opinion, it was a good call to start anew and dodge any position-taking regarding the ending of ME3 (the other option would have been a prequel, which is just ! bleh !) Quite the opposite. Both the missions to the Moon and to Mars are reasonable. And we invest very little money in them compared to other areas. If you want a real life parallel to the Andromeda missions, it would be a mission to set a colony in Alpha Centauri. And yes, it was a good call. When I play Andromeda, I'll just forget the Milk Way and pretend it's a reboot. And when I play the original trilogy I'll ignore Andromeda, as I understand, those the reasanoble thing to do (or headcannon a different galaxy than the one shown in the games). They could however have tried to come up with a better explanation that didn't hurt the original trilogy lore so much. And although it's as likely as the IT, maybe they did and we'll know when we play the game.
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Post by umbrage00 on Nov 9, 2016 15:05:18 GMT
What hurts the lore so much ? any particular point that you find quite upsetting ? ( I just want to know)
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Post by BadgerladDK on Nov 9, 2016 15:06:55 GMT
Quarians have become particularly suited for exactly the type of thing the Andromeda Initiative is setting to do. Casual racism cannot be afforded. Hell even the old school racist would probably bring them because "dem suit rat animals be useful for labor and I'll be damned if I salvage scrap or repair a hull seal like a damn space gypsy savage!" I see what you (probably accidentally) did there... And partially answered the question too. They're a liability due to their fragility and requirements for sterile environments if they can't depend on their suits. Plus there's the whole "privately funded" thing. They're unlikely to be able to pitch in with the funding, so any strays that are along could have been hired by the private backers. But the Quarians as a race aren't likely to be involved, neither in terms of being invited, nor wanting to flee. At this point in the timeline, their efforts seem pretty focused on a return to their own planet.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 9, 2016 15:34:33 GMT
... It takes a visionary and someone with more money than a Government budget to get something like the AI off the ground. Someone who doesn't have to answer to anyone to justify the cost-effectiveness or potential return of such a venture. In this case the individual in question, assuming they plan on going with, can liquidate their entire estate to fund the project. They're never coming back for it! Cerberus would know since the funding behind it comes, presumably, from the same sources as the funding behind this 'initiative'. Alliance command would know - who would let the chance to get the technology capable of freeing you from the shackles of the relay network slip? They'd appropriate it right away. And if all these people know then the Reapers would know as well. Sovereign had been monitoring the activities of the advanced species for years before he made his move in 2183. You don't think the Reapers wouldn't want this new technology for themselves? You think they'd allow the target of the next harvest to flee? The whole thing is nonsensical. I feel you're addressing another poster or some point that I haven't made. What does who would know have anything to do with anything? The AI is clearly not a secret. There's a huge promotional campaign going on to find recruits! My point is that this is not new tech. It's not a milestone that will have a far reaching effect on Galactic transportation. It's an ambitious undertaking like the Apollo missions that is exciting because of its audacity and scope but not something that will impact anybody in the Milky Way after the arks leave. It comes to prominence during a time between games and there is, therefore, no reason whatsoever for it to have been mentioned in ME3. Shepard has quite enough other things to worry about in ME3 and the news channels will have nothing new to report on the subject for another 600 years!
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 9, 2016 15:38:27 GMT
As for the last one. Once we discovered the relays there would have been no need to use FTL to go anywhere the relays couldn't reach. What would be the point of starting a colony so far removed from any possible hope of aid from Earth when there are so many places you could colonize with easy access to Earth's resources. None at all. But infinitely more than setting colonies in Andromeda. Infinitely less for an explorer. The people who set out to climb Mount Everest did so because it was the highest mountain in the world. Telling them to go climb a smaller mountain because it's easier is completely missing the point! This expedition isn't about easy. If they wanted easy they could just use a Mass Relay and find a new unexplored system near that. It's about being the first to do something extraordinary.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 15:47:54 GMT
All this hatred for Andromeda for the lore breaking and it's albeit outright stupid, nonsensical premise is valid to a point I'd argue.
Yes breaks in lore are frustrating at times.
And the premise of Andromeda is a huge retcon based simply on the fact that the Milky Way is tainted for many, and apparently BioWare, so a change in setting is necessary, along with it whatever is necessary to loosely explain why. If you want a 100% scientifically accurate, 100% in keeping with lore premise to Andromeda then I suggest finding a sci-if or space opera that does all that, but most pieces of fiction that operate within the ofttimes restrictive confinements of lore all the time, especially ones set in space, are rare.
when ME2 came out, hell, lore was broken here, there, everywhere, and stuff that didn't exist and or weren't even mentioned in ME1 came out.
Collectors, Drell etc.
I mean, Cerberus in ME1 as well? It changed completely from ME1 to ME2, and it didn't break the game and experience of ME1.
And all the people saying Andromeda isn't a Mass effect game, well to many people it still is. Mass Effect is and means different things to different people, and like any fictional property, needs to aptly evolve and develop in order to make money and stay relevant.
I honestly don't care about the lore breaking, I don't expect it to have to restrict its narrative or plot to fit within the confines of lore, which is subject to change, as does scientific fact time to time, different theories and facts, going round in circles etc.
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 9, 2016 15:48:57 GMT
None at all. But infinitely more than setting colonies in Andromeda. Infinitely less for an explorer. The people who set out to climb Mount Everest did so because it was the highest mountain in the world. Telling them to go climb a smaller mountain because it's easier is completely missing the point! This expedition isn't about easy. If they wanted easy they could just use a Mass Relay and find a new unexplored system near that. It's about being the first to do something extraordinary. But there aren't explorer climbing the mountains on some planet in a star system 10 light years from Earth. That would be the analogy with the AI.
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Post by Adhin on Nov 9, 2016 16:01:37 GMT
Adding history isn't a retcon unless it rewrites existing history. The video on the sites date the year prior to the launch. Shepard was dead during that period. The whole 'Oh the citadel is so big' part of ME1 was 1 years prior to that video. There is a good chance the 'Nexus' wasn't done.
So we have ME1 taking place 'before' this all goes public and they start recruiting people when it would be in the news. And when ME2 takes place the recruitment had happened a year prior. And during ME2 Shepard was mostly outside of Council space.
I mean the obvious non-in game reasoning is cause they hadn't thought of it before, yeah. There are also plenty of things to nitpick about if you really want to be pissy and angry about stuff. But that doesn't make it a damn retcon. If Turians can all of a sudden eat human food (for the most part) with no complications then THAT would be a fucking retcon. If redheads exist with out it being all fake hair dye THAT would be a retcon.
Both of which, I might point out make more sense then there bullshit science why those things are 'true' in the ME universe.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 9, 2016 16:15:40 GMT
Cryo sleep is actually the aspect that makes the most sense, as we already know that tech exists. But places to discharge the core stands as a barrier to exploration. Codex: Citadel Space:
Citadel space is an unofficial term referring to any region of space controlled by a species that acknowledge the authority of the Citadel Council. At first glance, it appears this territory encompasses most of the galaxy. In reality, however, less than 1% of the stars have been explored.
Even mass-effect-FTL drive is slow relative to the volume of the galaxy. Empty space and systems without suitable drive discharge sites are barriers to exploration. Only the mass relays allow ships to jump hundreds of light years in an instant, the key to expanding across an otherwise impassable galaxy.Thanks for the quote, I was wondering where in the Codex this apparent contradiction that people keep citing was found! It says that the lack of discharge is a barrier to exploration but it doesn't say that it's an insuperable barrier. The passage was simply designed to highlight the revolution that the mass relays had on Galactic exploration and expansion. I still maintain that we don't need new tech. Just build a ship big enough to carry it's own discharge facilities and you're set. At this point, though, even if they found new tech that meant ships didn't need to discharge or could discharge in empty space it still wouldn't make that tech much of a game changer compared to the Relays. The relative snail's pace of FTL travel would always make travel beyond easy reach of the Relays unnecessary and pointless. Of course, you could argue that the AI falls under the same heading of unnecessary and pointless but many would have argued the same about the Lunar Landing. The point of the AI is not about the potential rewards or payback but about the spirit of adventure. The US strove to be the first country to set foot on the moon. Humanity now strives to be the first Milky Way race to set foot in another Galaxy. The arguments about, why go to Andromeda when there's so much unexplored in the Milky Way, rather misses the point! If all you need are ships big enough to hold their own discharge facilities (how would that even work? Discharge facilities appear to function as lightning rods for the drive discharge. Discharging into the ship itself is supposed to be avoided!) then why hasn't there been a mass exodus to planets away from the relay network? Garden worlds are rare and precious things. There'd be a huge demand to spread out into the galaxy to find more of them, even if they took weeks, months, even years to get there. And most of the races have been exploring space for over a thousand years. Some for more than two thousand! SUre some people would want to travel to Andromeda for the adventure, or because they can. But others would still find adventure close to home: Alliance to Attempt Contact with Alpha Centauri Colony “An effort is underway today in the Alpha Centauri system as Alliance specialists work to establish contact with a lost colony of early human explorers who took an asari scientist prisoner. Mission Commander Jon Hayes said: "As near as we can tell, these people slipped through the cracks. They were considered missing when communication was lost with their ship after they left in 2075 and fell off the radar, so to speak. It's entirely possible they have no idea what's happened in the galaxy for the last 110 years. We're treating it as a first contact situation." Accompanying the military will be experts from a variety of fields, including sociologists, anthropologists, linguists, psychologists, geneticists, and a host of supporting medical personnel. One anthropologist commented "It reminds me of those 19th century explorers who discovered tribes deep in the Amazon rainforest. The natives had no idea the wider world existed."”
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 9, 2016 16:29:28 GMT
Infinitely less for an explorer. The people who set out to climb Mount Everest did so because it was the highest mountain in the world. Telling them to go climb a smaller mountain because it's easier is completely missing the point! This expedition isn't about easy. If they wanted easy they could just use a Mass Relay and find a new unexplored system near that. It's about being the first to do something extraordinary. But there aren't explorer climbing the mountains on some planet in a star system 10 light years from Earth. That would be the analogy with the AI. I disagree. Assuming your analogy is referring to our current 21st century explorers then what you propose is patently impossible for them. The Andromeda Initiative tests the limits of human endeavour but it is still possible. There's nothing special about colonizing a planet in the Milky Way. People are doing it all the time, all over the Galaxy. Going to Andromeda is a real test, a real first, a real coup. It's the absolute pinnacle of what's possible to achieve in terms of pushing the boundaries of human exploration. Why settle for second best?
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Post by Adhin on Nov 9, 2016 16:32:24 GMT
The whole idea of static build up is kinda a silly one anyway. It doesn't happen just because you have an electric current going through something. It generally requires some kind of opposite force mucking with the static electricity inability to pass to another area. The whole idea that they never 'solved' it always seemed kind of stupid to me.
There's plenty of ways of diffusing or stopping static charge build up to begin with. Including making shit wetter, or just lining stuff with copper or whatever, avoid rubbers blah blah. I mean you could do something like the core has highly conductive nodes that stop the build up of static charge and direct that excess energy into battery stores that're used to power other other... stuff.
Though if I had to wager a guess to what BioWare is going for based off the ship designs? I have a feeling the 4 arm-thingies on the ship are the actual drive cores and they're separate from the ship directly. Or maybe they're just thrusters that double as the means to nullify the charge.
...still dunno why they went with static charge build up. If that was an actual 'problem' it would fry the computer components of the ship making your ship fuck all useless well before it built up enough to fry people.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 9, 2016 16:32:48 GMT
I see what you (probably accidentally) did there... And partially answered the question too. They're a liability due to their fragility and requirements for sterile environments if they can't depend on their suits. Plus there's the whole "privately funded" thing. They're unlikely to be able to pitch in with the funding, so any strays that are along could have been hired by the private backers. But the Quarians as a race aren't likely to be involved, neither in terms of being invited, nor wanting to flee. At this point in the timeline, their efforts seem pretty focused on a return to their own planet. Not so. Quarians maintain their own suits and as much as I like to make fun of them when Xen's around, are not as fragile as you think. The bottom line is they have four centuries experience doing the very thing this Andromeda mission's trying to do. Not including them would be monumentally stupid. As for "funding" they may not have credits, valuables or processed goods in the amounts you're talking about but I see no reason some of them couldn't contribute raw resources, or more specifically the location of raw resources. They've been scouting around for a long time. If you mean the quarian race officially, as in the Migrant Fleet, yes they're not likely to be on the board for Andromeda. But a splinter faction, certainly. I believe in ME2 one of the debates is a return to Rannoch vs continuing the search for a new homeworld with one side arguing going through the geth to get to Rannoch would be wasteful and dangerous and the other arguing that finding another world like Rannoch is unfeasible in the short term and they haven't found squat for 400 years.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 9, 2016 16:43:30 GMT
If all you need are ships big enough to hold their own discharge facilities (how would that even work? Discharge facilities appear to function as lightning rods for the drive discharge. Discharging into the ship itself is supposed to be avoided!) then why hasn't there been a mass exodus to planets away from the relay network? Garden worlds are rare and precious things. There'd be a huge demand to spread out into the galaxy to find more of them, even if they took weeks, months, even years to get there. And most of the races have been exploring space for over a thousand years. Some for more than two thousand! I don't know how the discharging facilities on the Citadel work but we know that they do. I assume that they are external to the Citadel itself. I envisage them being some kind of device that would be dragged along behind the ark ships or, perhaps, ejected from them for the discharging and then reeled back in again (or maybe they just have lots of disposable ones they jettison along the way!). Or maybe it really is new tech that only works if you have a big enough ship. I'm not ruling anything out. But I don't think there's any shortage of garden worlds or of new places to explore within reach of the Relays. I really don't see any reason why there would be a demand for this tech within the Milky Way as long as the Relays are functional. Especially if you have to bankrupt yourself in order to finance the building of the ships large enough to benefit from it!
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Post by bshep on Nov 9, 2016 17:03:06 GMT
Same reason why we try to go to Mars and beyond. To discover, to explore.
that being said i still don't completely believe that the oficial explanation is the sole reason those four Arks are travelling.
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Post by traks on Nov 9, 2016 19:40:46 GMT
It wasn't important to Shepard's story.
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jackievakarian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
NuriTheMarxist
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Post by jackievakarian on Nov 9, 2016 19:51:12 GMT
All this hatred for Andromeda for the lore breaking and it's albeit outright stupid, nonsensical premise is valid to a point I'd argue. Yes breaks in lore are frustrating at times. And the premise of Andromeda is a huge retcon based simply on the fact that the Milky Way is tainted for many, and apparently BioWare, so a change in setting is necessary, along with it whatever is necessary to loosely explain why. If you want a 100% scientifically accurate, 100% in keeping with lore premise to Andromeda then I suggest finding a sci-if or space opera that does all that, but most pieces of fiction that operate within the ofttimes restrictive confinements of lore all the time, especially ones set in space, are rare. when ME2 came out, hell, lore was broken here, there, everywhere, and stuff that didn't exist and or weren't even mentioned in ME1 came out. Collectors, Drell etc. I mean, Cerberus in ME1 as well? It changed completely from ME1 to ME2, and it didn't break the game and experience of ME1. And all the people saying Andromeda isn't a Mass effect game, well to many people it still is. Mass Effect is and means different things to different people, and like any fictional property, needs to aptly evolve and develop in order to make money and stay relevant. I honestly don't care about the lore breaking, I don't expect it to have to restrict its narrative or plot to fit within the confines of lore, which is subject to change, as does scientific fact time to time, different theories and facts, going round in circles etc. I mostly agree. Although I do think Bioware will explain and elaborate in better detail in the future why we are going to Andromeda, we all know the "real" reason anyway. I'm not saying we be okay with whatever our glorious corporate overlords give us, but that this is mostly fine.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 10, 2016 1:55:56 GMT
None at all. But infinitely more than setting colonies in Andromeda. The same could be said about the moon landing or the exploration of mars. There is no economic gain in landing on them or in colonising them, yet we still put billions of dollars into space exploration. I think most trips are driven by curiosity, and the desire to learn more. Perhaps we wanted to go to Andromeda to meet a new "dominant" alien species of a new galaxy. But most importantly, and as someone has already pointed out: The writers didn't plan in advance to have us go to the Andromeda galaxy. In my opinion, it was a good call to start anew and dodge any position-taking regarding the ending of ME3 (the other option would have been a prequel, which is just ! bleh !) Or make an ending canon. That would have gone over well i'm sure.
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bohemiadrinker
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Origin: BohemiaDrinker
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bohemiadrinker
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Post by bohemiadrinker on Nov 10, 2016 2:34:41 GMT
I don't see why that implies anything is being ignored. It says it's expensive not impossible. Clearly the mission has a very rich benefactor! But that's an extremely simplistic view, to say the very least. If indeed that was the case you could expect stuff like massive warships that are much bigger than dreadnoughts, colossal space stations the size of the Citadel, many missions across the centuries to colonize planets far from the Relays, etc. Well, we do have at least one colossal space station the size of the citadel, which is also privately funded (and from before humans) (From euderion.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-Stations-Big-Ships-Size-Comparison-433200009)So the size of the Nexus is not as much breaking lore as it is stretching it a little bit. The problem with the Nexus is that it actually moves, at least for take-off and arrival, it needs propulsion.
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Post by AnDromedary on Nov 10, 2016 17:02:21 GMT
Disclaimer, wrote this novel post as a summary of my own thoughts n things and I totally get if no one will ever read it (because it got frigging huge). But anyway, here we go: First, I want to say that I really like the idea of going to Andromeda and to leave the old ME behind to a large degree. It avaoids messing with the choices of the old trilogy, looses the baggage of the permutations of the universe and give the whole series a fresh start. This post is stricktly about how the journy to Andromeda is implemented, not about the idea itself, which is a good one IMO. The thread title is also my biggest question for the Andromeda backstory so far. I’ll get to it but first, I want to quickly go into two other question that also gnaw at me and that have been mentioned in this thread as well: 1. How to go to Andromeda? The project was started in 2176. I do assume that at that time, they at least had some sort of theoretical concept for how to travel, although they might have had to develop the exact drive and hardware over the next 9 years. However, by 2183, they have no viable way to efficiently fly between clusters within the milky way because of drive discharge and fuel. So let’s talk about drive discharge for a second: You need a large magnetic field to discharge FTL drives periodically. In the milky way, these are fairly plentiful as there are lot’s of stellar bodies with massive magnetic fields (such as planets). However, even within the milky way, this seems to be an issue when trying to fly between cluster on certain routes as evidence by multiple codex entries (e.g. Illos). Between galaxies it is assumed that the distances between such bodies is huge, so that’s not an option. However, as has been pointed out, there are discharge stations around the citadel and if they work, you could just bring a mobile version of those with you. However, we don’t know how those discharge stations work. It may be, that they actually use the Serpent nebula, that - according to it’s codex entry - seems to have electromagnetic fields of it’s own, strong enough to even be a navigation hazard. If they only work in the nebula, that would explain why inter-cluster travel didn’t use discharge stations so far. However, if all you need is a magnetic field, those should not be too tough to create. Take a power plant, strap it to a huge coil of conductible material and you should be good. So in theory, mobile discharge stations might be expensive but definitely not impossible to build. I actually see more of a lore problem within the old trilogy on this one than in Andromeda. Next Problem, fuel: Now, I saw someone here suggesting that you only need fuel to speed up and slow down. This however is not true for FTL travel as you need to keep pumping juice into the Eezo core to keep the ME field going that will enable FTL travel. From what fuel requirements of the Normandy in ME2/3 suggest, the amount of fuel that you’d need to bring in order to keep FTL travel going for 600 years straight should be humongous! But I since we actually are never told specifics and since the actual numbers never really add up for anything in the ME universe, I am happy to just assume that somehow, we can take enough fuel along for the ride. So, IMO, how we get to Andromeda is not really a big problem. My main problem is that it doesn’t quite add up with the limitations on travel that we are told exist in the old trilogy and to be honest, those limitations had sketchy reasons to begin with, so this might be on the older lore, rather than the new one. In defence of the old lore, it’s always bad to break with established stuff, especially when writing a prequel (which the history of the AI kinda is), so I split the blame for inconsistencies on that one. So on to the next question: Why do we go to Andromeda? As has been mentioned, the Reapers would actually have offered the writers a perfect reason to send us out there. However, at the moment, it looks like they’d rather go with “because we are explorers”. This really annoys me. I work in science and I know how tough it is to get money for anything that doesn’t provide a tangible or at least predictable benefit at a half way calculable risk. This is not the case here. It has been stated that from the get go, everyone expects this to be a one way trip and Mac Walters confirmed that there also will be no communication between Andromeda and the Milky Way (I guess, QRCs cannot last for 600 years or something). So why should any Milky Way based organisation - no matter if private or public - fund this enormous expense? Especially given that there are way cheaper and more accessible alternatives right at their doorstep with the Milky Way explored by as much as 1%, this is not believable. It’s like Christopher Columbus organising a Mars mission in the year 1519 because the Europeans got bored with exploring/messing up North America already. And before you start with our past showing humans inherent nature to explore, our past shows the opposite. There is no single endeavour undertaken in the history of mankind, that was done without some form of profit in mind for those that do not go themselves. This includes the expedition that discovered America, the moon missions and even Elon Musks proposed Mars flights (although, I will admit, he probably gets the closest). And humans have been shown to be by far the most forward pushing species in the ME universe. it’s even worse for other species like the Asari, the Turians or the Salarians (although at least those were in interstellar space longer than 27 years at the time of the AI). Now, the only redeeming point to this is that we don’t really know that exploration will in fact be the whole reason for going. It may be that there are other motives in play that we haven’t been told about yet. For example, the (IMO horrible) comic ME:Evolution opens a back door where the council species (and humanity) may already have some vague knowledge of an impending reaper threat in 2176. It may be that the AI is already a backup plan. I for one really hope they will incorporate some element like this because the exploration angle simply does not compute for me. Now, finally on to the question that spawned this thread because it is a good one: Why is the AI never mentioned in the the ME trilogy? Obviously the answer is “because it wasn’t conceived by the writers yet at the time” but this is not really answering the question. Because any writer who wants to write a prequel story line (and again, that is what ME:A’s background is to the trilgy) needs to take this question into account in universe. And as far as I cans ee, there is no good reason for it not being mentioned. Suppose it was secret all along and hardly anybody but the people who actually came on board the ships knew. This would already mean that all the trailers and material we saw with the ark ships openly hovering over earth and the moon would have to be some form of simulation or whatever because otherwise, anyone on earth with a decent telescope would be able to spot the ships. It would also be a huge problem for Daddy Ryder, who seems to be a fairly famous guy all around to suddenly vanish (though that’s not a big deal with a proper cover story. But more importantly, we know that it’s private groups how build those ships. So if it were secret it would be Cerberus level stupidity all over again. I’ll just link the good old “build a warship in secret” article here since it explains pretty well how unbelievable the idea of those huge private secret projects is. So, let’s assume it’s not secret. This would be the major scientific and exploratory project that anyone would talk about, not just when it’s launched but for the entire development period. As someone said, this endeavor is comparable to someone today actually building a viable way to fly to and colonize Alpha Centauri. It would be astonishing, incredible. In ME1, when the characters first see the Destiny Ascension, they are in awe and they outright say that it’s the biggest and baddest ship around. They should rather be like “well yea, it’s big but hey, we almost finished the Hyperion as well.” In ME3, when people frequently lament the possible extinction of all advanced races in the galaxy, someone should have said “at least the Andromeda guys might still have a chance.” But most importantly, Shepard would have had the most convincing argument against the catalyst ever [obvious ME3 ending spoiler warning]! All s/he would have needed to ask is “What about extragalactic invaders?” If the catalyst assumes that the development of a genocidal unstoppable artificial intelligence is inevitable in the Milky Way, the same should be true for any other galaxy. So if traveling between galaxies is known to be possible by the time of the ME3 ending, an invasion by a genocidal A.I. (ironically the same acronym as Andromeda Initiative) from another galaxy must be seen as inevitable as well. In this case, resetting the galaxies socio-technological development every 50.000 years doesn’t help anyone because eventually, we’ll just face an extra-galactic A.I. that is 1 billion years ahead of us in terms of development. Now the catalyst may assume (or have calculated or whatever) that there are an equivalent to the reapers in every galaxy but at the very least Shepard would absolutely have been required to make this argument, even if the catalyst would eventually not go for it. So congratulations BioWare, you may have managed to make the ME3 ending even more stupid, which, to be honest is quite the achievement. The mentioning and the ending issue are just two example of countless discrepancies of extra-galactic travel with the lore in the old trilogy. In conclusion, given the information that we have at this point, you also seem to have written a very messy backstory for Andromeda, that doesn’t barely holds up when looked at in isolation and certainly doesn’t square with the lore that is already in existence. But, as I said, we don’t have all the information yet. There is still a chance that we will learn additional information that can remedy some of these points (maybe even all fo them). I hope we will see those but frankly, given BW recent track record on logic vs. the “rule of cool” in their stories, I am skeptical. This is a shame because I was hoping that BioWare would have learned from how their more ridiculous stories were received. With Andromeda, they had the opportunity to write anything they wanted. If they do not release further info to remedy the issues above, I’m afraid, i will yet again not be very happy with the route they chose to go.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Nov 10, 2016 17:29:21 GMT
The same could be said about the moon landing or the exploration of mars. There is no economic gain in landing on them or in colonising them, yet we still put billions of dollars into space exploration. I think most trips are driven by curiosity, and the desire to learn more. Perhaps we wanted to go to Andromeda to meet a new "dominant" alien species of a new galaxy. But most importantly, and as someone has already pointed out: The writers didn't plan in advance to have us go to the Andromeda galaxy. In my opinion, it was a good call to start anew and dodge any position-taking regarding the ending of ME3 (the other option would have been a prequel, which is just ! bleh !) Or make an ending canon. That would have gone over well i'm sure. Or just ignore the endings. Like what Terry Pratchett would say about the continuity of the Discworld series: There are no inconsistencies in the Discworld books; occasionally, however, there are alternate pasts.
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