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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 23:47:55 GMT
Earth would go bankrupt, huh... but we're not just dealing with the resources available here on earth... There is an entire Milky Way galaxy worth of resources out there allegedly accessible to the project. The Crucible was constructed during war time in a matter of a couple of months... during a time when many humans were fighting the war and dying in huge numbers and after galaxy-wide communications were significantly cut. The AI is being built over a period of several years, during peace-time when all communications are in place and the numbers of people required to fight a war is significantly less (i.e. more can devote their time to science). It's not as insurmountable a concept as the naysayers around here keep making it out to be. It takes roughly nine years for the United States Navy to construct a 100,000 ton heavy and 337 meter long Aircraft carrier. What do you think it would take to privately construct a Colossal Space Ark? Do you have any idea how expensive and delicate the shipbuilding or aerospace industries are today? And that is without going into any of the details. Liara even admits it took decades to build the Shadow broker ship, With humanity having the smallest economy of any citadel species, with a population that is concentrated on earth and various agrarian colonies. How is Mass effect's version of Elon Musk going to deal with that? So Yeah, it is very much inconcievable that a private human effort would be able to commit to a project of such magnitude within the established Mass Effect universe. However, we've already "bought into the canon lore" that the Crucible was constructed in ONLY a couple of months during war time after communications had largely been cut and all species were heavily involved in trying to defend their own home worlds. Lore-wise, we're already a LOOOOONG ways beyond what's reasonable IRL on earth today. Also, the lore in the Mass Effect universe was totally screwed up LOOOOONG before ME:A came along per the example you gave... the implication that it took 10 years to build the SB ship and only a couple of months to build the Crucible (which is obviously much larger than the SB ship and the Destiny Ascension because we see it docking with the Citadel in ME3 and its arms span the diameter of the entire ring. (See the thread on Size Comparison? here: bsn.boards.net/thread/2188/size-comparrison ) So, is it really reasonable to force Bioware to hold ME:A to such a faulty lore system?... I say, not if we even remotely hope to enjoy what could be a good game out of this mess. Let them let the old lore go into the trash bin where it belongs. Let's move forward... and stop resenting Bioware for wanting to move forward as well.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 13, 2016 0:20:28 GMT
So, is it really reasonable to force Bioware to hold ME:A to such a faulty lore system? Yes. Because "They did it before" is simply not a good enough excuse to give them a pass now. We want better, not just more of the same. YOU may have bought into the Lazarus Project and the Crucible. But I haven't. I always complained at how stupid they were, how they brought down the franchise and cheapened the storytelling.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 0:41:41 GMT
So, is it really reasonable to force Bioware to hold ME:A to such a faulty lore system? Yes. Because "They did it before" is simply not a good enough excuse to give them a pass now. We want better, not just more of the same. YOU may have bought into the Lazarus Project and the Crucible. But I haven't. I always complained at how stupid they were, how they brought down the franchise and cheapened the storytelling. You claim to have not bought into it... yet, what you object to is allowing them to depart from what they've written into lore before now. You don't want them to start fresh with a new galaxy and create a new lore with a different basis for FTL travel, etc. You keep dragging them back to the same old problems. That's not "expecting better" from them... that's simply not allowing them to even try to deliver "better." It would be "better" to just allow them to say this is the new Mass Effect. The story starts in the Andromeda Galaxy in 2685. Stop asking for explanations why and how it relates to the old. Just let the old go so that they can create from scratch a more consistent lore for the new story... unfettered by their past "mistakes." But nooooo... the "fan" base keep hammering on this until Bioware has no choice but to come up with "something"... and that something will likely be an inadequate explanation because the foundation that the fans insist they explain is faulty... and the fans know that... so... the fan's motives then must be to maliciously bring down Bioware because they resent the past and can't move on from that. It's a shame really. We'll all end up with no game to play.
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Post by Garo on Nov 13, 2016 1:46:28 GMT
Like really guys, this is your big concern? Answer this: Why we don't see any female Turians for 3/4 of the trilogy? Well, sometimes you can use a little imagination to fill the blanks, that's all I'm gonna say.
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Post by Petroshenko on Nov 13, 2016 3:29:24 GMT
The AI timeframe is perfect for us to not hear about this initiative during our trilogy playthrough. It's also essentially a glorified science expedition: which is brilliant IMO: doesn't hurt the lore of the trilogy, and leaves it open to reconnect to the Andromeda universe since it's now 600 years in the future in the MW, long enough to perhaps figure out how to sort a trade route to Andromeda by the end of the game...(my lore hope this is haha). It works OK before Reaper arrival. We don't hear about Presidental Elections, or latest Asari pop star mega scandals or other big news that would come in daily. So it's not THAT big of a stretch that Ai wouldn't be brought up despite being a huge milestone for Milky Way civilization. However, as soon as the issue of going extinct arises during Reaper invasion, it's unfortunately jarring that Ai wouldn't be instantly brought up in multiple conversations. But that's as always the issue of adding new suff with (partially) prequels.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 13, 2016 4:05:58 GMT
Yes. Because "They did it before" is simply not a good enough excuse to give them a pass now. We want better, not just more of the same. YOU may have bought into the Lazarus Project and the Crucible. But I haven't. I always complained at how stupid they were, how they brought down the franchise and cheapened the storytelling. You claim to have not bought into it... yet, what you object to is allowing them to depart from what they've written into lore before now. You don't want them to start fresh with a new galaxy and create a new lore with a different basis for FTL travel, etc. You keep dragging them back to the same old problems. That's not "expecting better" from them... that's simply not allowing them to even try to deliver "better." It would be "better" to just allow them to say this is the new Mass Effect. The story starts in the Andromeda Galaxy in 2685. Stop asking for explanations why and how it relates to the old. Just let the old go so that they can create from scratch a more consistent lore for the new story... unfettered by their past "mistakes." But nooooo... the "fan" base keep hammering on this until Bioware has no choice but to come up with "something"... and that something will likely be an inadequate explanation because the foundation that the fans insist they explain is faulty... and the fans know that... so... the fan's motives then must be to maliciously bring down Bioware because they resent the past and can't move on from that. It's a shame really. We'll all end up with no game to play. If they really want to "start fresh with a new galaxy and a new lore with a new basis for FTL travel, etc" they should have started by removing "Mass Effect" from the title. If it's a Mass Effect game, then there are expectations that it will follow the rules of its setting. And if those rules are somehow changed, they should be done in a logical in-universe way. They will have a hard time removing the fetters of their past mistake because IT WAS A FREAKING HUGE MISTAKE!!! They destroyed the entire setting! Made worse by their refusal to even acknowledge the screwup. So we get "EXPLORATION!" and "CURIOSITY!" as lame-*ss excuses for what should be an impossible setting change. This whole colonization thing could be done far more easily and in a lore-friendly matter if they hadn't DESTROYED THE OLD SETTING!!! They want us to "let the old go", and "start from scratch" Then they should do exactly that. Hard reboot. But that's not what they did. They brought Mass Effect baggage on board as soon as they said it was a "Mass Effect" game and tried to keep their oh-so-idiotic Reaper war canon. They get no points for trying to have their cake and eat it too.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 13, 2016 7:52:12 GMT
The AI timeframe is perfect for us to not hear about this initiative during our trilogy playthrough. It's also essentially a glorified science expedition: which is brilliant IMO: doesn't hurt the lore of the trilogy, and leaves it open to reconnect to the Andromeda universe since it's now 600 years in the future in the MW, long enough to perhaps figure out how to sort a trade route to Andromeda by the end of the game...(my lore hope this is haha). It works OK before Reaper arrival. We don't hear about Presidental Elections, or latest Asari pop star mega scandals or other big news that would come in daily. So it's not THAT big of a stretch that Ai wouldn't be brought up despite being a huge milestone for Milky Way civilization. However, as soon as the issue of going extinct arises during Reaper invasion, it's unfortunately jarring that Ai wouldn't be instantly brought up in multiple conversations. But that's as always the issue of adding new suff with (partially) prequels. Ha, I just thought of something that would super cool of BioWare to do: a tiny patch that retrofitted the Trilogy with a couple NPC conversations and a codex entry for the Andromeda Initiative - how sick would that be! I know this wouldn't happen...but far out, it would be pretty darn amazing if you ask me.
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Post by Vall on Nov 13, 2016 12:46:32 GMT
Ha, I just thought of something that would super cool of BioWare to do: a tiny patch that retrofitted the Trilogy with a couple NPC conversations and a codex entry for the Andromeda Initiative - how sick would that be! I know this wouldn't happen...but far out, it would be pretty darn amazing if you ask me. Yeah, that isn't that bad of an idea, I was toying with it myself. Maybe add a new message to news terminals in ME2: "Andromeda Initiative, an expedition to explore and colonize Andromeda galaxy, is scheduled to leave for its 600 journey later this year. Founded in 2176 by Jien Garson, this initiative built 4 massive Arks to house its 100,000 passangers in cryo-stasis until they finish their journey. More information will be revealed in following months as the departure draws closer." Or maybe a couple of NPCs: "Hey, have you heard of this Andromeda Initiative?" "Yeah, I don't buy it...600 years in cryo-stasis, relying on computer to wake me up? What if they crash, they wouldn't even know they died." "That does sound pretty scary. But if what commander Shepard says is true..." But yeah, it probably won't happen and we will have to headcanon it...but we can dream
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 13, 2016 15:37:05 GMT
Ha, I just thought of something that would super cool of BioWare to do: a tiny patch that retrofitted the Trilogy with a couple NPC conversations and a codex entry for the Andromeda Initiative - how sick would that be! I know this wouldn't happen...but far out, it would be pretty darn amazing if you ask me. Yeah, that isn't that bad of an idea, I was toying with it myself. Maybe add a new message to news terminals in ME2: "Andromeda Initiative, an expedition to explore and colonize Andromeda galaxy, is scheduled to leave for its 600 journey later this year. Founded in 2176 by Jien Garson, this initiative built 4 massive Arks to house its 100,000 passangers in cryo-stasis until they finish their journey. More information will be revealed in following months as the departure draws closer." Or maybe a couple of NPCs: "Hey, have you heard of this Andromeda Initiative?" "Yeah, I don't buy it...600 years in cryo-stasis, relying on computer to wake me up? What if they crash, they wouldn't even know they died." "That does sound pretty scary. But if what commander Shepard says is true..." But yeah, it probably won't happen and we will have to headcanon it...but we can dream If I knew how to make mods....I would get this done ASAP: anyone here make mods by chance? The "Andromeda Initiative Retrofit" would be a great lore reinforcing mod for sure; all it would need is a few voiced lines, an NPC here and there and a few bits around the Citadel/Extranet and we're sorted - it could even span all 3 games, with different degrees of progress being updated in the news etc, with mention of the AI leaving in ME3...and "how I wish I went on the Andromeda Initiative now that the Reapers are murdering us all" schtick.
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Post by spacev3gan on Nov 13, 2016 22:49:19 GMT
Bioware has to come up with some way of fitting the Andromeda Initiative in the Mass Effect trilogy without screwing it up too much. For instance, having it as a not so big, not so expensive endeavor. The ships have to be small (nothing like the Citadel sized stuff we have rumors of) and preferably the whole thing has to have some sort of secrecy until the dawn of the Reaper threat/invasion.
I really hope Bioware does not portray the Andromeda Initiative as something enormous, a gigantic trillionaire investment greater than anything that takes places in the ME original trilogy yet no one is talking about it.
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 13, 2016 23:23:03 GMT
Bioware has to come up with some way of fitting the Andromeda Initiative in the Mass Effect trilogy without screwing it up too much. For instance, having it as a not so big, not so expensive endeavor. The ships have to be small (nothing like the Citadel sized stuff we have rumors of) and preferably the whole thing has to have some sort of secrecy until the dawn of the Reaper threat/invasion. I really hope Bioware does not portray the Andromeda Initiative as something enormous, a gigantic trillionaire investment greater than anything that takes places in the ME original trilogy yet no one is talking about it. Well, that is exactly what it is. The Arks are much bigger than any ship seen in the trilogy (Reapers included) and the Nexus is almost as big as the citadel. And I don't think the AI is in the trillion range, but hundreds of trillions. Or at least enough trillions that it becomes not possible. Unless you make the Mass Effect a very simplistic, not realistic universe.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Nov 14, 2016 5:01:06 GMT
Oddly enough, I never let this fact ruin a perfectly amazing game.
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Post by spacev3gan on Nov 14, 2016 7:50:39 GMT
Well, that is exactly what it is. The Arks are much bigger than any ship seen in the trilogy (Reapers included) and the Nexus is almost as big as the citadel. And I don't think the AI is in the trillion range, but hundreds of trillions. Or at least enough trillions that it becomes not possible. Unless you make the Mass Effect a very simplistic, not realistic universe. The Arks seem to be as big as the Destiny Ascension (3km in length if I recall correctly). Now the Destiny Ascension is supposed to be a magnificent ship, according to the Mass Effect wiki, " is four times the size of the largest human ship" and " it has almost as much firepower as the rest of the asari fleet combined". Completely out of the blue, the Andromeda Initiative has the largest and most impressive fleet in the galaxy since the Prothean extinction. And no one in the trilogy seems to give a damn about it. This crappy deus ex machina event to save the ME franchise (just to make money out of it) is seriously below Bioware standards.
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 14, 2016 10:54:32 GMT
Well, that is exactly what it is. The Arks are much bigger than any ship seen in the trilogy (Reapers included) and the Nexus is almost as big as the citadel. And I don't think the AI is in the trillion range, but hundreds of trillions. Or at least enough trillions that it becomes not possible. Unless you make the Mass Effect a very simplistic, not realistic universe. The Arks seem to be as big as the Destiny Ascension (3km in length if I recall correctly). Now the Destiny Ascension is supposed to be a magnificent ship, according to the Mass Effect wiki, " is four times the size of the largest human ship" and " it has almost as much firepower as the rest of the asari fleet combined". Completely out of the blue, the Andromeda Initiative has the largest and most impressive fleet in the galaxy since the Prothean extinction. And no one in the trilogy seems to give a damn about it. This crappy deus ex machina event to save the ME franchise (just to make money out of it) is seriously below Bioware standards. I don't know if this is accurate, but my reference was this picture: In the videos, the Arks seems much bigger than the alliance dreadnoughts stand next to it. And therefore would be bigger than the Destiny Ascension as well. But anyway, it's worth pointing out that the if don't save that ship, the Asari do not have enough money to build a new one. Indeed, the losses from the Battle of the Citadel are so big that they have to give their share of defense responsabilities to the Turians. And we are talking about the biggest economy in the galaxy here.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 14, 2016 11:34:23 GMT
In terms of financing, we know absolutely nothing of the finer details, other than it's scope has expanded over time.
It's not a Systems Alliance initiative, but that doesn't mean there aren't multiple large factions with stakes in this... everyone's assuming humanity are wearing the cost alone (or like, one person? lol)...but with multiple ARKs for multiple council races, there are sure to be big backers whose motives are yet largely unknown (not to be confused with the AI motives/reasons for being, which are clear cut exploration/expansion it seems).
Perhaps some of these backers are weary of the Reaper threat? Perhaps some are going to be onboard and are running away from things.. Perhaps some are just idiots with too much money and not enough hobbies?
Who knows, we don't...that's for sure...I'm excited to find out though.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 14, 2016 11:44:47 GMT
On the size of the ships we can't say for sure how big they are. Another thread shown that based on certain calculation the Arks are around the size,if not smaller, then the Ascension.
The bigger problem isn't the Arks though. If there were only those, I don't think many would complain or wonder about the scale of the project. The problem is the Nexus, which is far bigger then anything we saw other then the Citadel.
I hope they came up with something to explain that, even if I doubt I'm going to like it.
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 14, 2016 12:41:31 GMT
If orientation video is anything to go by, we'll find out enough about Nexus and Arks within a month or two. Hopefully they'll also mention one of biggest questions from old fans about the list of taken species. The Arks seem to be as big as the Destiny Ascension (3km in length if I recall correctly). Now the Destiny Ascension is supposed to be a magnificent ship, according to the Mass Effect wiki, " is four times the size of the largest human ship" and " it has almost as much firepower as the rest of the asari fleet combined". Completely out of the blue, the Andromeda Initiative has the largest and most impressive fleet in the galaxy since the Prothean extinction. And no one in the trilogy seems to give a damn about it. This crappy deus ex machina event to save the ME franchise (just to make money out of it) is seriously below Bioware standards. In the videos, the Arks seems much bigger than the alliance dreadnoughts stand next to it. And therefore would be bigger than the Destiny Ascension as well. That's still a stretch, they are on the background and we don't know how far.
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Post by Wulfram on Nov 14, 2016 13:21:42 GMT
Vale S.A, a mining company, built a fleet of 30 ships which are all bigger than any warship ever built. They were ordered in 2008, the first was completed in 2011.
I don't think its implausible that there are civilian ships which are larger than the Destiny Ascension. In fact it probably makes sense, military ships need to accelerate relatively fast so they can't get too big.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 13:50:22 GMT
Maybe BioWare will provide, in game or via release of information over the next few weeks, substantial information to help better explain/rationalise the whole premise of Andromeda and the logic behind the Arks and Nexus.
But even if they don't, letting something like this so strongly deter you or antagonise you from Andromeda, without yet playing the game or giving time to see if there will be the scientific realism and lore abiding standards you are seeking to explain all this away, isn't really going to allow you to view Andromeda in anything but a negative lens, and thus you will likely find a whole lot more else to complain about and criticise BioWare for, probably before the game is even released. It's exhaustive to a point, and sometimes game developers really don't deserve all this ache from the fan base when they are trying to please them, again to a point.
To an extent it almost feels like to some, BioWare haven't put a footnote wrong until now (I could be wrong there), but there have been plenty of areas in the trilogy that broke the suspension of disbelief and realism was never 100% or the experience completely immersive.
Without giving the chance or time to see if the explanation is there, and that the realism is sustained, for some it would seem that Andromeda is already set up for failure, and in that case, why spend so much time on these forums, doomsaying the game, and being overly negative, when we are still fairly in the dark regarding the overall plot and narrative, other than the premise and plot driving motivations for Ryder.
I could go into the fact that the whole ending debacle is the reason we are going to Andromeda in the first place, which may not have been the case if it wasn't for the continued five years of whining over them, but I've said enough for now on this.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 14, 2016 17:18:02 GMT
It not being military, it had no way of helping out against the conflict with the geth/collectors/reapers. So it wasn't mentioned. It's better this way tbh, having people escaping the MW because Reapers would be another ME3 case of desperation and all the motivations would be the same and whatnot. Bioware was clever. By the way, for those whining about "not mAh lore", you always have the original trilogy and its endings. No one is taking that away from you.
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Post by dalinne on Nov 17, 2016 23:29:47 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by commandercryptarch on Nov 18, 2016 0:27:36 GMT
My concern isnt the mention rather the question... Where did they build the Arks and the Nexus?You cannot build vessels of that scale on surface.It had to be done is orbit somewhere...but where? Had to be super secret and undetected.
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bshep
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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bshep
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Post by bshep on Nov 18, 2016 1:02:13 GMT
My concern isnt the mention rather the question... Where did they build the Arks and the Nexus?You cannot build vessels of that scale on surface.It had to be done is orbit somewhere...but where? Had to be super secret and undetected. The Hyperion was being build on Moon's orbit as was shown in the Briefing video on MEA site. No idea about the others. But there was really no reason to secrecy since they did need to recruit people to the journey.
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Arcian
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Arcian on Nov 18, 2016 1:24:03 GMT
Like really guys, this is your big concern? Answer this: Why we don't see any female Turians for 3/4 of the trilogy? Well, sometimes you can use a little imagination to fill the blanks, that's all I'm gonna say. The problem with that is that you can't populate the game with your imagination. Turians are not a rare species in the galaxy so it makes every bit of sense that females should be as ubiquitous as males in populated places like the Citadel. Asari are at least mono-gendered, and salarians are excused by to their culture and societal structure.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Petroshenko on Nov 18, 2016 2:37:41 GMT
Ha, I just thought of something that would super cool of BioWare to do: a tiny patch that retrofitted the Trilogy with a couple NPC conversations and a codex entry for the Andromeda Initiative - how sick would that be! I know this wouldn't happen...but far out, it would be pretty darn amazing if you ask me. For what purpouse though? You would know it wasn't there originally and its an edit made post-fact. There's no point pretending really, or trying to fix/patch/retcon up every issue that comes along in the future as more stories in ME universe get out. Better to just take it for what it is. Same goes for editing Star Wars original Trilogy. It was really pointless on Lucas' part to try and change things to make them fit with prequels that were created later. Everyone knows it wasn't what was orginally there.
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