The Carver Hawke Thread - Time to prove something!

Like I said before I don't understand him even when I tried.
He was jerk in intro to Eloise and Christian alike even if their characters does not fit any "prank your little brother".
He hated Theresa even when she was patient and trying to help him. There is no rival thing between older sister and younger brother.
She did't hit on Merrill (since Carver has crush on her), she didn't mock him, she didn't turned him down when it comes to his loyalty present.
She told him to stay in Kirkwall out of concerns of mother. If he was angry because of that he can also blame Leandra for this one.

I tried to understand (like I said) and I failed. There is no understanding to this hostility. Even Fenris was more understaning and friendly to Theresa. And he has very bad experiance with mages to begin with. Aveline who was married to a templar before could be friend to Theresa, and Theresa was an apostate !
Someone who was hunted down by people like her husband ! So Fenris and Aveline can be nice to her, but her own brother can't ?
I only stopped trying to understand him, once I have finally at the end of Act I lost mine patience and any stupid hope of getting along with him.
He hates her ? Then so be it. Be Sir Carver from Templar Order, and live up to it.
Carver should no longer be bound to feel any regret turning in his sister to templars if he wants to. She expected him to do so, after Leandra has died. 

So stop telling me that I didn't tried before. I already told you that I tried very hard to understand Carver, to make something out in case of repairing family relations, to get some connection between siblings. You may tell that this was rivality but to your own role play.
In my case there was no reason to be rivals to begin with.
There was no rational reason for any kind of rival terms between them.
If rival terms are not available then what we have left ? Ah, yes. The most accurate one - hatred. Pure hatred.
Maybe if I would make Blood Mage jerkish brother rival relation would be understanding. But for Theresa ? There is none excuse.
Possibly she get him out by time of Inquisition out of some too goodie sister duties towards siblings or as duty to mother's will.
Even if this sibling hates her deep in his heart.
He may forever regrets that it was Malcolm, Leandra and Bethany who died, not Theresa instead.

Yeaaaahhh.... Because this argument isn't getting circular or anything....

Meanwhile...


Let's get the conversation going, shall we?
What were some of everyone's favorite missions to bring Carver on?

One I like to drag him to bring him on the Enemies Among Us quest with Keran the templar. I also, though it's been a long time, like to take him on the dlc missions. I remember fighting Corphyeus and he was the only one left standing. I was laughing because he defeated the big bad and not my Hawke. I was so proud. LOL

There is rivalry. You just refuse to see it. You ignore the already established backstory and feelings. You are not going to get us to see your point of view. Catilina and I are working with what the game gave us while you are hand-waving away evidence presented in game. I'm not sure exactly why you are here repeating the same things over and over.

Not everyone is going to like Carver; I've come to terms with that ages ago. Just realize that some of us have taken the time to get to know him and do like him.

@ saberchic - again. Maybe to YOUR role play is any rivaly.  Esablished backtory ? So Malcolm Hawke must have teached his oldest to hide magic. So Bethany and Carver seen him less. Then Bethany was taken under Malcolm wing too. So Carver was left more alone without father.
So what ... who he is rival to ? He pushed his sisters away to beg Malcolm to take care of him too ? Or he stayed near Leandra ? I highly doubt Leandra would allow Carver to disturb lessons of Malcolm towards Bethany and Theresa alike. Just like Leandra didn't want Theresa to take Carver into Deep Roads too.
Evidence presented in game ? Yeaaaaah right. I looked at them to seek the answer of his hostility. And there was none answer.
What did Theresa exposed him and Peach to Leandra ? Did she mocked his name ?
Or she was too busy like Bethany to hide from templars and watch out on her magic ? I believe this second option.
Few evidences in game: Carver had girlfriend. Carver was pranking Bethany. Carver don't like mages. Carver blames Hawke for Bethany fate. Carver wants to joing guards. Carver don't want be in shadow of Hawke, even if Hawke herself don't want to be in any spotlight to begin with.  Carver wants to go on adventure to Deep Roads. Carver blames Hawke that they need to hide because of her magic. Carver get to know he was named after templar. Carver feels better as templar liking person. Carver has no friendly relations in Hawke team.

Because those thing were in role play. That's why I repeat it. There was no rival terms in this role play. It had no sense to be - that's why it isn't rivalry !
Role Play is the most important thing in Dragon Age to me. As in any other RPG. If mine role play of patient sister just lead to conclusion of total waste of time and effort in trying to make Carver happy and be in better terms it just prove how much of "rival mess" doesn't WORK on mine character.
And really Catilina mentioned it as mess done by BioWare previous. They didn't worked out different scenario when your Hawke is not jerk towards Carver.
So instead I am left with hostility of Carver while mine Hawke did nothing bad to him.
I spend better time in game trying to understand him in different situations. Yet it always lead to some diasters.
They have made only Carver in version to Hawke who is jerk to him. They have never considered anybody playing as too-goodie female mage, and Theresa is the proof of this one.
I would be really happy if Hawke leftouts of family wouldn't look like pathology but unfortunately they are.

Yeah I may REFUSE something what does NOT MAKE SENSE. Like rivalry over ... nothing ? What would Theresa want to achieve before Carver ? Nothing ! Their main goals were totally different ! Then now tell me what sort of rivalry you want it to be ? Because I am telling you entire role play did not helped in this one scenario of them being rivals.
I actually defend mine role play from you. What I explained are the results of playing as Theresa.
Without Theresa, like I said if I would play some jerk Carver would be seen by me as reasonable character.
I shouldn't regret that I didn't played as jerk but thanks to Carver ... well he made sure for me to blame myself to not forsee that for mage Carver will be so hostile. I thought that after some time their relations will be better in Act I.

Well role play is always serious to me. You should be aware that I was able playing New Vegas as pacifistic surgeon who didn't want to kill anybody if she have choice. Just imagine playing that one in such game. So here you have how serious I treat role play and RPG's.
So obviously Carver was not thought to be in situation with any none jerkish mage.

I may tell that I do not say it's bad character. It's not thought enough character. Bethany was either sweet or bitter to you in game.
Maybe Carver as Warden is better to Hawke.

I'm not really sure what's happening here, but I feel like this is worth re-posting.




Same. I like taking Carver on the Keran one too, and always on the DLC. Legacy is my favorite with him, I think. One time he ended up being the only one standing during that fight. As a Grey Warden. It was a magical moment.

haha, yes! I did that once. Getting +5 rivalry for sleeping with Jethan was kinda worth it for Carver's reaction. "You're going with him. Now? This is just wrong."

Bethany's reaction to it is pretty funny too. "This is not why we came to Kirkwall."

--
I also like having Carver along sometimes when encountering Cullen because I snark him about templars/mages and Carver is just "Stop doing that!"

Catilina - I did not hate him on Theresa. I was dissapointed and hopeless in this case. It was he who hate in this relation.
Yeah Varric and Bartrand were weird, but seeing how typical family in dwarves looks like I do not expected them to be anything less.
Bartrand is typical dwarf, and Varric is like rebel in this. That's why they are in bad terms.
I thought about it being some rebel of teen but shouldn't he direct his anger on Leandra ? She seemed to me like over-protecting him at every step. Typical teen reload their anger on parents not on siblings, since siblings usually don't have power of forbidding them doing anything.
Also DA II takes few years, and Carver surely had time to get over teenage anger. But from letters or decisions .. or what he said in such Legacy it doesn't seem to me like he was ever going over this.
So that's why I started to think it was something else than teenage rebel anger. Something deeper than this mood swings.
That's why I came to conclusion of bottled down hatred.

Yeah perhaps you have right about this that I should have made him Warden. I just couldn't get over this decision if she should listen to Leandra and be a good daughter, or risk Carver life because he wants it.

Well what's done is done. I can't change it now. I would have to repeat not only DA II but also Verissa Lavellan

This is not teenage anger. Carver already is not a teenager. After his father's death feels need to take care about his mother and Bethany (and probably Hawke too, but rather jealous than he can present this). He's very protective, but he never get a chance to prove him. He thought that his older brother/sister was more important for they father, than he, and who lost his sibling, who was closer to him. This is my opinion.

saberchic - ther problem is mine Hawke's did not want in first step to be in spotlight ! If Carver is angry over this then he may have place in spotlight without anger.
Theresa wanted to hide from templars, she don't want spotilight.
Christian didn't gave a damn about being center of attention so he wasn't after this in Lothering too.
As for Eloise she would be more like outcast of Lothering who would likely run from home to join hunters to hunt in such Korcari Wilds, against parents wishes.

The main play did not fit any rivalry since it was pointless. If Carver wants spotlight nothing stops him. It's only him who must do something to reach it. So at who he is really angry ? On his sister/brother or should be angry on himself ?
Role play matters huge to receive entire game. That's why it's RPG. It is build to react on your play.
That's why Bethany was able to be shocked-disgusted at Eloise just for making fun in Legacy with Varric about entire Carta buisness.
If Eloise would be less funny, Bethany wouldn't react like this.
But if you think Role Play is not doing huge job in DA series then I think we have nothing to talk about.
Based on role play and how your Hawke behaves since we have blank character in case of past in Lothering, it's up to gamer.
Just like it's up to gamer in any other correct RPG.
There was nothing from BioWare about past relations of Hawke siblings. You never got seen how typical life of those three looked like.
We have only sketches like Carver having girlfriend, or Bethany having friends in family killed by Sten.
If Malcolm didn't had time for anything than teaching Bethany and do some jobs to provide for family, then how much of time would Theresa and Bethany have if Malcolm all free time spent with them to teach them.
I don't think they had time to do pranks on Carver, unlike he had time to do on Bethany at night.

Goodie Theresa was everytime nice to him. Every positive option ended with + rival term. And Carver reacted hostile. Mine goodie Theresa was just like this .. too-goodie. I know her too much. So good that it pains since some npc's there did not deserved being treated so nice. I picked up to him the most friendly option thinking that he will be better. But no .. nothing like this.
I don't expect you to understand since you think role play is not important. If you don't value role play then what I can say.
It's topic about Carver and I discuss how Carver looked like in this scenario.

PS: Also I thought it was supposed to be discussion about character overall. So all things negative and positive about characters should be here.

It doesn't matter if your Hawke doesn't want the spotlight (I didn't get the impression that it was up to you actually. The first act is about Hawke trying to advance socially and economically.) The spotlight is cast upon them by virtue of being a mage. It led to him/her getting more attention than Carver from their parents and it leads to Hawke getting more attention from the group they join to work off their entry debt. It leads to the danger the family still faces from the Templars. It just is and there is plenty for Carver to resent. He just needed a better introduction early on.

You can ask why Carver didn't go off and do his own thing, but that's exactly what he does with the Templars. Other than that, resenting that he is in his brother/sister's shadow doesn't mean he doesn't also recognize or at least believe that he actually is not as good as they are. 

It may be a language issue, but I don't understand your point. What does one have to do with the other?

natureguy85 - From what I understood mage Hawke was seeking fortune or title to have way out to hide from templars. So it was matter of survival as apostate. At least that's how game presented this. I also remember such excuse used from Bethany regarding entire Expedition - the need for fortune and title to not being sold as slaves or to keep up from templars suspicion.
I may understood upset over Malcolm attention, but as adult Carver should at least understand how hard Malcolm tried to train those two to not be caught by templars.

I understood that he gone to templars. I don't really understand why he didn't consider that going to templars while hiding an apostate sister is dangerous. That's why he screamed at mine Theresa either way at the end of Act I/beggining of Act II. I was more concerned what templars will do to him if they will find out about Theresa.
I agree that he should have better introduction. I mean on non-mage Hawke he does seem like someone very rude. A jerk actually. This isn't something positive for me. And we speak about first impression here.
Mine question about doing own thing .. you mean this why he didn't took the spotlight ?
I meant while he was at side of Hawke. He could try to lead on.
I remember there was a joke .. in main game or in MotA where they were joking about how entire crew is lost without Hawke even if Hawke has NONE idea what they are doing.
As for templars I do not understand why there wasn't two ways of outcome for Carver in the end. One where you can got him on your side, and one where you had to fight against him (for Templar Carver scenario only)right before showdown with Meredith herself.
Him taking side with Cullen felt so ... un-Carver.