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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 15:14:06 GMT
The premise of a scientific expedition don't bother me insofar that the general idea holds up well on it's own. What does make me roll my eyes is that Bioware just had to shove humanity into the pilot seat once more; Making the founder of the entire project a human in particular is a big mistake for all sorts of reasons, It be much better and less cliché had it been an Asari or Salarian, Or even a Volus and perhaps a Hanar.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 17, 2016 15:26:44 GMT
I understand that they wanted to give their characters different motivations, hence the "Do you want to build a colony? Come on let's go and explore..." stuff from Jien. Technical limitations, common sense limitations, resource limitations and so on - I'm still open to what Bioware has to say on this. Even if I'm already prepared to roll with what they gave out already. ...Come on let's go and explore You'll never see MW anymore Come out your world You'll like to fly away... We used to be travelers And now you are not I wish you would join AI! Do you want yo build a colony? It doesn't have to be a colony Vorcha: Argh! You go away! Jien: Okay, bye... I prefer it be unconnected to the Reapers. The fact that it was initiated in 2176 Are you sure about that? Perhaps you could give me a link to some ME site with this date on it? Yeah, it's still on there. I know the rumor was that it had been removed, but it's still in the text. It was only removed from the timeline. I don't know if BioWare realizes this, but their removal was half-assed. Edit: I see someone addressed this. It was still fun to use "half-assed" in a sentence. I should use it more often.
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Post by hopeless on Nov 17, 2016 15:28:58 GMT
Officially founded in 2176 and left 2185? 9 years that's very little time to build an Ark let alone get everyone ready to leave in a moment's notice?! Suggests to me like the Citadel they FOUND rather than built the Arks if they actually left between Mass Effect 2 & 3 that suggests something sparked off the mission I previously wondered if the assassination of Shepherd was the spark causing them to gather who they could and immediately leave? Maybe the fault on Hyperion is due to their rush? Give the least capable ship to the new guys?! There's a lot left unsaid so will they address this in game or via a prequel dlc?
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 17, 2016 15:42:49 GMT
9 years that's very little time to build an Ark let alone get everyone ready to leave in a moment's notice?! That's actually within realm of possibilities. Alliance for example is capable of building one dreadnought per year, so Arks could even be built one after another with a lot of spare time in the end. And Nexus is approximately 8 times larger than Ark, so give it separate construction line and here you go. Just don't forget your infinite money cheat-code.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 16:14:19 GMT
A typical example as to why Sci-Fi writers have no sense of scale, In reality building a kilometer spacecraft fit for interstellar combat would take probably a decade at best, the current rate of aerospace development is low because for a variety of practical conerns, now combine that with all the issues of modern day military shipbulding and you get the idea. The rules of the Mass Effect universe are not so different from our that we can just brush away these concerns, and the Alliance is not as much as a super power for this discrepancy to be explained in universe, quite the contrary, Humanity is at the bottem of the foodchain in ME1, yet now all the sudden Humanity takes the lead in undertaking of immeasurable proporation, well before the firt game even begins. It would have been a lot better if the Andromeda project was started long before Humanity ever left the Solar system and they only got onboard after the battle of the Citadel. The convenience of the project finishing just as humanity takes center stage is much easier to cope with narrative wise than to explain a marvel of construction and technlogical advancement taking place in nine years without any form of lasting consquences.
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Post by jackievakarian on Nov 17, 2016 16:16:53 GMT
One thing that pisses me the fuck off, is fans saying the Andromeda Initiative isn't possible because private funding wouldn't have enough money to finance the Andromeda Initiative.
Note I'm not discussing why private individuals would fund the Initiative, that is a separate conversation entirely. I'm only explaining why funding the AI with private capital would be possible.
From what I've gathered by playing the Mass Effect games, watching Youtube videos, and reading the lore of the Mass Effect series, the galaxy's economy definitely seems to run on Neo-Liberal Capitalism and trade.
The primary economy of Earth right now is Neo-Liberal Capitalism. Right now, just 62 people own approximately 46 goddamn percent of all the wealth in the world, over $2 trillion, and also have $7.6 trillion stashed away in cowardly tax havens.
If the economics of Mass Effect are anything like this at all (hint hint, they hella fucking are), then I have almost no fucking problem whatsoever believing the AI is financed by private individuals.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 17, 2016 16:20:53 GMT
Officially founded in 2176 and left 2185? 9 years that's very little time to build an Ark let alone get everyone ready to leave in a moment's notice?! Suggests to me like the Citadel they FOUND rather than built the Arks if they actually left between Mass Effect 2 & 3 that suggests something sparked off the mission I previously wondered if the assassination of Shepherd was the spark causing them to gather who they could and immediately leave? Maybe the fault on Hyperion is due to their rush? Give the least capable ship to the new guys?! There's a lot left unsaid so will they address this in game or via a prequel dlc? Finding the arks rather than building them would make a lot more sense, given it would be using tech that just plain doesn't exist in the ME universe (not in this cycle, at least) to be able to sustain FTL travel for centuries...
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 17, 2016 16:29:29 GMT
I doubt the open reason for the Andromeda Initiative is the Reapers. We're getting the PR reasons. But I'm willing to bet that at some point Ryder will be informed, as the Pathfinder, that we MUST find a home for humanity in Andromeda, since there is no going back to the Milky Way. Why? Because by now, the Reapers may have won. It'd make a good scene, right? You have naysayers panicking about never finding a homeworld for humanity. Saying they'd be better off heading back to the Milky Way. After all, the Nexus and the Arks are still operational. No reason they can't be used for a return trip, especially if we abandon a lot of the cargo and just take the people. Then someone who knew about the Reapers reveals that this is impossible. That would be a great scene for sure, really like the idea of the Reapers being brought up as a footnote that really drives home the situation they may be in....they may be the last humans left in the universe at that point, so this mission really needs to work out for everyone involved. Cool thinking mate
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 17, 2016 16:38:32 GMT
The premise of a scientific expedition don't bother me insofar that the general idea holds up well on it's own. What does make me roll my eyes is that Bioware just had to shove humanity into the pilot seat once more; Making the founder of the entire project a human in particular is a big mistake for all sorts of reasons, It be much better and less cliché had it been an Asari or Salarian, Or even a Volus and perhaps a Hanar. Well, it's not nearly as bad as we expected. Based on what Bioware said in the be before N7, it seems the project was mostly humans based, while from what we know now it's a multi based project with each of the four main species have most the same importance, and the focus on humanity is just because we're going to focus on the human side of colonization.
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Post by bshep on Nov 17, 2016 17:05:58 GMT
Officially founded in 2176 and left 2185? 9 years that's very little time to build an Ark let alone get everyone ready to leave in a moment's notice?! Suggests to me like the Citadel they FOUND rather than built the Arks if they actually left between Mass Effect 2 & 3 that suggests something sparked off the mission I previously wondered if the assassination of Shepherd was the spark causing them to gather who they could and immediately leave? Maybe the fault on Hyperion is due to their rush? Give the least capable ship to the new guys?! There's a lot left unsaid so will they address this in game or via a prequel dlc? Remember that the Crucible (a giant space ship) was build in less than a year while the citadel races fought the Reapers. So i don't think it would be impossible for them to be build by people who had the money and the desire to invest in this journey.
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Post by kino on Nov 17, 2016 17:24:11 GMT
As a premise to a story it doesn't bother me at all. It being a joint venture between several different species and governments makes it even more reasonable.
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Post by kumazan on Nov 17, 2016 18:05:07 GMT
I know it was the most extended theory when we were all in the dark (more than we are now, I mean), but it's pretty understandable that they don't want to link the Reapers with the central plot of Andromeda in any way. I'm more intrigued about the fact that the Ai's ultimate goal seems to be to create a MW - Andromeda stable route, because that would mean that either the Andromeda story arc, however long it is, ends without the Ai fulfilling its purpose, or we will eventually contact the Milky Way again. And with 4 extremely divergent endings to account for, I don't see any way to do so without a massive retcon (or releasing 4 separate games ).
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 17, 2016 18:48:07 GMT
I know it was the most extended theory when we were all in the dark (more than we are now, I mean), but it's pretty understandable that they don't want to link the Reapers with the central plot of Andromeda in any way. I'm more intrigued about the fact that the Ai's ultimate goal seems to be to create a MW - Andromeda stable route, because that would mean that either the Andromeda story arc, however long it is, ends without the Ai fulfilling its purpose, or we will eventually contact the Milky Way again. And with 4 extremely divergent endings to account for, I don't see any way to do so without a massive retcon (or releasing 4 separate games ). If the IP lasts that long, and if it goes in that direction, you'd hope people are less pissy and more reasonable by then. Clearly, they'd have to either sidestep/largely ignore the ME3 endings (made easier by the passage of centuries), or they'd need to finally man up and pick a "canon" ending as most IPs would've done. BioWare fans are way too fanatical about the sanctity of their holy game saves. I've completed ME3 dozens of times, in multiple ways. I have my preferred ending, if they chose just one, but none of my game saves take precedence in my mind. More importantly, none of them should dictate what BioWare does with future games, and neither should anyone else's save files. I'm excited for Andromeda, but this all would've been easier if they'd have just had the fortitude to say, "The Reapers were destroyed, and the galaxy freed from their oppression," or whatever. Then, we could've explored the rest of the Milky Way with much less fanxiety and disruption of established lore. This post likely sounds way more combative than I actually feel. There's just no gentle way to phrase any of that.
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Post by malanek on Nov 17, 2016 19:07:53 GMT
I feel they need some other story hook to explain the why and the how. Just having it be they decided to do it for resources and exploration is incredibly weak.
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Post by rapscallioness on Nov 17, 2016 19:28:15 GMT
I understand that they wanted to give their characters different motivations, hence the "Do you want to build a colony? Come on let's go and explore..." stuff from Jien. Technical limitations, common sense limitations, resource limitations and so on - I'm still open to what Bioware has to say on this. Even if I'm already prepared to roll with what they gave out already. ...Come on let's go and explore You'll never see MW anymore Come out your world You'll like to fly away... We used to be travelers And now you are not I wish you would join AI! Do you want yo build a colony? It doesn't have to be a colony Vorcha: Argh! You go away! Jien: Okay, bye... Are you sure about that? Perhaps you could give me a link to some ME site with this date on it? Yeah, it's still on there. I know the rumor was that it had been removed, but it's still in the text. It was only removed from the timeline. I don't know if BioWare realizes this, but their removal was half-assed. Edit: I see someone addressed this. It was still fun to use "half-assed" in a sentence. I should use it more often."Candy-ass/ed" is a fun one, too. An oldie, but goodie.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Nov 17, 2016 19:35:18 GMT
From one standpoint I fully understand the wanting to get as far away from MW as possible,which is the only reason we are going to another Galaxy writing-wise imo.On the other hand, MW is what I as a player cared about and leaving it FOREVER and never ever coming back doesn't make sense in the long run.Even though if it is the most logical choice short term. However,If Mass Effect wants to keep existing as a franchise for many years to come, they won't be able to run away from the MW Galaxy forever.They are bound to return to it one day.One way or another.It is inevitable. Now will it make sense? I have no idea. But ME is based on a ludicrous amount of space magic so...?Why not? I don't think fans will have a negative opinion a lot if in 10 years we get a huge "Return" to the MW.It will have been so long after the ME3 ending that we will be nostalgic enough to accept anything they serve us. My speculation goes a bit like this: The people who went on the AI mission will try to establish contact with the MW. I know it has been like 600+ years for the MW but for them ,everyone and everything they knew is a fresh memory.It will only have been -depending on how many years have passed and how many games- just a few years since their arrival. They will learn what happened but it might be in a legend form rather than facts and commander Shepard will be known as The Shepard.Maybe if enough time passes they might develop tech to counteract the "choices" of ME3 s ending.Or maybe discover Wormholes or advanced tech that makes them travel in time.Imagine a game where our Andromeda hero s mission is to reverse travel back and reverse that and retake the MW.I know it is crazy...But anything is possible with space magic Point is, I am 1000% sure that the franchise will one day return to its true home. I cannot imagine a future with Mass Effect games that take place everywhere else but never again in the MW. Edit:My response may be not entirely on topic but oh well...To answer the OP question I ll say we just don't know yet for sure if the AI doesn't hide other motives.I am sure the Garson probably is made aware of an imminent extinction level invasion , but is keeping it secret not to make anyone panic and send the AI program into chaos and disarray.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 19:43:50 GMT
I know it was the most extended theory when we were all in the dark (more than we are now, I mean), but it's pretty understandable that they don't want to link the Reapers with the central plot of Andromeda in any way. I'm more intrigued about the fact that the Ai's ultimate goal seems to be to create a MW - Andromeda stable route, because that would mean that either the Andromeda story arc, however long it is, ends without the Ai fulfilling its purpose, or we will eventually contact the Milky Way again. And with 4 extremely divergent endings to account for, I don't see any way to do so without a massive retcon (or releasing 4 separate games ). If the IP lasts that long, and if it goes in that direction, you'd hope people are less pissy and more reasonable by then. Clearly, they'd have to either sidestep/largely ignore the ME3 endings (made easier by the passage of centuries), or they're need to finally man up and pick a "canon" ending as most IPs would've done. BioWare fans are way too fanatical about the sanctity of their holy game saves. I've completed ME3 dozens of times, in multiple ways. I have my preferred ending, if they chose just one, but none of my game saves take precedence in my mind. More importantly, none of them should dictate what BioWare does with future games, and neither should anyone else's save files.I'm excited for Andromeda, but this all would've been easier if they'd have just had the fortitude to say, "The Reapers were destroyed, and the galaxy freed from their oppression," or whatever. Then, we could've explored the rest of the Milky Way with much less fanxiety and disruption of established lore. This post likely sounds way more combative than I actually feel. There's just no gentle way to phrase any of that. Clearly though, the direction Bioware wants to take this franchise right now is to Andromeda and not declare a canon ending. So, if the second bolded part above holds, then they should not " need to finally man up and pick a 'canon' ending." The only thing that would have changed had they chosen to pick a canon is that it would be someone else saying that they should have "manned up and found a way to start ME:A before the endings occurred." No matter which way they went with this, there would have been a significant group of fans unhappy with the decision.
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Post by bshep on Nov 17, 2016 21:11:37 GMT
Truth be told, i believe if the ME franchise keep itself alive(still very young with less than 10 years) one day Bioware will find a way to do this because i don't think they won't create stories in the Milky Way ever gain.
But for now i guess MEA is a good way to keep Mass Effect alive while bypassing the most annoying fan(atics). And who knows, maybe the game does have some sort of nice connection to the previous trilogy.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Nov 17, 2016 21:30:36 GMT
It seems like it opens up a really unnecessary can of worms about the level of technology in the MEU and what kinds of resources have been at the participating species' disposal all this time. Investing in a huge project like that makes some sense if all the spacefaring species in the galaxy are facing extinction, but "exploration is cool" is pretty weak given that the MEU Milky Way seems to have plenty of problems with crime, poverty, racism and the like even without Reapers in the picture.
I also don't see how this idea of establishing a link back to the Milky Way is going to work. Even 1,000 or so years isn't *so* far into the future that the after-effects of Shepard's choices would have logically faded into the background, unless the status of sentient life is going to be so advanced and transformed that we'd barely even recognize it any more. While it would be gutsy for Bioware to attempt that, it's the sort of thing that could easily turn out unrelateable or just goofy. I think I might actually prefer they just stay in Andromeda for future ME games than try to somehow finesse the history of the Shepard trilogy into a universally applicable "canon."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 22:00:19 GMT
It seems like it opens up a really unnecessary can of worms about the level of technology in the MEU and what kinds of resources have been at the participating species' disposal all this time. Investing in a huge project like that makes some sense if all the spacefaring species in the galaxy are facing extinction, but "exploration is cool" is pretty weak given that the MEU Milky Way seems to have plenty of problems with crime, poverty, racism and the like even without Reapers in the picture. I also don't see how this idea of establishing a link back to the Milky Way is going to work. Even 1,000 or so years isn't *so* far into the future that the after-effects of Shepard's choices would have logically faded into the background, unless the status of sentient life is going to be so advanced and transformed that we'd barely even recognize it any more. While it would be gutsy for Bioware to attempt that, it's the sort of thing that could easily turn out unrelateable or just goofy. I think I might actually prefer they just stay in Andromeda for future ME games than try to somehow finesse the history of the Shepard trilogy into a universally applicable "canon." However, "exploration is cool" was the entire motivation for the Star Trek universe... why is it not appropriate for the Mass Effect one?
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Post by KirkyX on Nov 17, 2016 22:11:56 GMT
However, "exploration is cool" was the entire motivation for the Star Trek universe... why is it not appropriate for the Mass Effect one? Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Tempest . Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before!Well, I'm certainly game! (Doubly so if I get a 'Space, the final frontier...' dialogue option at some point.)
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Nov 17, 2016 22:17:22 GMT
However, "exploration is cool" was the entire motivation for the Star Trek universe... why is it not appropriate for the Mass Effect one? Well, they haven't gone to Andromeda on Star Trek as far as I know, nor do Starfleet go on one-way trip missions where they're never going to see their families and friends again. But the Federation also seems to be much more of an ideal society than Mass Effect's Milky Way, with poverty mostly abolished and little if any conflict between Federation worlds. Earth even has a "weather modification net," such that Picard catches onto a mystery in one episode upon discovering that someone's parents were killed in a tornado (such things apparently just don't happen in 24th century Earth). We can argue over whether that's realistic or not, but it does seem built into the premise, so it makes more sense that people are turning their attention outward. Mass Effect's galactic society is much more fractious and "messy." I could imagine some humans being a little pissed that the Andromeda Initiative's budget isn't being spent on protecting their colonies in the Traverse from batarian raids, or helping get the Tenth Street Reds off the streets.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 17, 2016 22:20:30 GMT
Clearly though, the direction Bioware wants to take this franchise right now is to Andromeda and not declare a canon ending. So, if the second bolded part above holds, then they should not " need to finally man up and pick a 'canon' ending." The only thing that would have changed had they chosen to pick a canon is that it would be someone else saying that they should have "manned up and found a way to start ME:A before the endings occurred." No matter which way they went with this, there would have been a significant group of fans unhappy with the decision. I knew this reply was incoming from someone. You've probably read enough of my posts to know that I support BioWare's right to tell their story. Whether I ever thought their insistence on dodging an "official" ending to ME3 was wise or not is irrelevant. We're going to Andromeda, and I long ago got behind that. I've been advocating an open mind toward the new game like a paid diplomat, honestly. As to the unhappy fans that would've resulted from an official ending, that was sort of my whole point about BioWare fans and their "holy games saves". It's silly. I have 4 pages of ME1 Shepards, many of them level 60 (Xbox 360). I can't recall how many that is, but it's a ton. I have half as many Shepards/saves for ME2 and ME3. I've made a lot of different choices, and it is strange to me that some get so ideologically attached to just one ending. I do have one I like better than the rest, but why should I expect BioWare to cater to my preferred game ending? It's silly. I don't want to get into a lengthy debate about this. It's not a topic on which many are likely to be swayed in either direction. I'd rather talk about Andromeda.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 17, 2016 22:22:09 GMT
However, "exploration is cool" was the entire motivation for the Star Trek universe... why is it not appropriate for the Mass Effect one? Well, they haven't gone to Andromeda on Star Trek as far as I know, nor do Starfleet go on one-way trip missions where they're never going to see their families and friends again. But the Federation also seems to be much more of an ideal society than Mass Effect's Milky Way, with poverty mostly abolished and little if any conflict between Federation worlds. Earth even has a "weather modification net," such that Picard catches onto a mystery in one episode upon discovering that someone's parents were killed in a tornado (such things apparently just don't happen in 24th century Earth). We can argue over whether that's realistic or not, but it does seem built into the premise, so it makes more sense that people are turning their attention outward. Mass Effect's galactic society is much more fractious and "messy." I could imagine some humans being a little pissed that the Andromeda Initiative's budget isn't being spent on protecting their colonies in the Traverse from batarian raids, or helping get the Tenth Street Reds off the streets. The budget spent on the Initiative isn't from the various governments, it's from private benefactors. They're free to spend their money as they wish, and since nobody seemed to care that they didn't help on those issues in the trilogy, I doubt that most of the population will care about them spending it in the Initiative.
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fatherjerusalem
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Nov 17, 2016 22:25:52 GMT
I like that it's unconnected to the Reapers.
"This is our last chance to survive!" is uninteresting to me, because we know by playing ME3 that that's untrue.
It's about the human experience of looking over the hill and saying "what's next" that interests me.
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