Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Nov 18, 2016 19:35:33 GMT
DAI's open world isn't just an effect of DA2. It's a consequence of Skyrim's success. One could also call it a callback to the BG and BG2 days, though. I mean, DAI isn't truly an open world. IT's a number of very large zones to wander about in. Where it fell down was the side quests in them were...lacking...
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Post by Iakus on Nov 18, 2016 19:38:16 GMT
If the reapers weren't made stupid, they would've harvested this cycle very easily even if this cycle has the crucible From "all unknowable synthetic gods" to "wongly-tested AI that killed organics thinking it preserved them wihtout any empathy or knowledge of human emotion" the Reapers were made stupid IMO. It's worse than that. Given their numbers and raw power, they could have blitzed the Citadel and all the homeworlds simultaneously, capture them all, shut off the relays, and pick the crippled remnants off one by one just like they've done every cycle before. Even dumb machines should have been able to manage that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 19:48:38 GMT
Mac has hinted at one day doing "another story" so they haven't burned down the Milky Way itself... just given themselves over 600 years of time to elapse (perhaps double that or even 50,000 years) before going back. With enough time, anything that happened with Shepard in the Milky Way can be evolved away and forgotten. The Milky Way species can evolve . The "undiscovered" 99% of the Milky Way still exists. Of course, I don't expect that will mollify you in any way... However, I'm absolutely OK with it. Right now, I'm looking up at Andromeda in the night sky and thinking... yeah, I want to go there! We've already seen how events will evolve: From Commander Shepard to "The Shepard". No thanks And I take hints from mac with a huge grain of salt now. he hinted, before ME3 that we'd get more of an explanation to how the Lazarus Project worked in ME3. What we ended up getting was "Gee, it's a good thing the helmet kept the brain intact!" Blargh! And going to Anromeda is fine...EVENTUALLY!!! But the Reapers trapped us into visiting only a narrow network of planets. With the tech this project has, the entire Milky Way becomes open to us RIGHT NOW! We'd be free of the Reaper trap! The batarians and humans no longer have to fight for worlds in the Attican Traverse! The Quarians no longer have to live like vagabonds on the fringes of Council Space. The geth could build their megastructure pretty much anywhere they like! We can go ANYWHERE!!! It takes six hundred years to get to Andromeda? We could cross the MW with this tech in a fraction of that time! And not in stasis, we can be visiting countless worlds along the way! You, linkenski and Arcian must get really tired... hauling around all those wet blankets. I STILL WANT to go there.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 18, 2016 19:48:47 GMT
DAI's open world isn't just an effect of DA2. It's a consequence of Skyrim's success. One could also call it a callback to the BG and BG2 days, though. I mean, DAI isn't truly an open world. IT's a number of very large zones to wander about in. Where it fell down was the side quests in them were...lacking... Indeed, but the switch was made right after Skyrim's enormous success, so I think this was the main reason for it.
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Post by bshep on Nov 18, 2016 19:50:17 GMT
From "all unknowable synthetic gods" to "wongly-tested AI that killed organics thinking it preserved them wihtout any empathy or knowledge of human emotion" the Reapers were made stupid IMO. It's worse than that. Given their numbers and raw power, they could have blitzed the Citadel and all the homeworlds simultaneously, capture them all, shut off the relays, and pick the crippled remnants off one by one just like they've done every cycle before. Even dumb machines should have been able to manage that. How long since you played? Because it was very obvious the Reapers weren't able to do this. They usually relied on taking control of the Citadel to shut the Mass Relay network to everyone else, which they couldn't do in this cycle thanks to the Prothean scientists from Ilos. They were having a really hard time conquering the Turian home system thanks to them having to divide their forces to attack everyone one at the same time.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 18, 2016 19:50:27 GMT
We've already seen how events will evolve: From Commander Shepard to "The Shepard". No thanks And I take hints from mac with a huge grain of salt now. he hinted, before ME3 that we'd get more of an explanation to how the Lazarus Project worked in ME3. What we ended up getting was "Gee, it's a good thing the helmet kept the brain intact!" Blargh! And going to Anromeda is fine...EVENTUALLY!!! But the Reapers trapped us into visiting only a narrow network of planets. With the tech this project has, the entire Milky Way becomes open to us RIGHT NOW! We'd be free of the Reaper trap! The batarians and humans no longer have to fight for worlds in the Attican Traverse! The Quarians no longer have to live like vagabonds on the fringes of Council Space. The geth could build their megastructure pretty much anywhere they like! We can go ANYWHERE!!! It takes six hundred years to get to Andromeda? We could cross the MW with this tech in a fraction of that time! And not in stasis, we can be visiting countless worlds along the way! You, linkenski and Arcian must get really tired... hauling around all those wet blankets. Hey, I want to be wrong. But when it comes to Mass Effect, I've learned it doesn't pay to be optimistic. or even ambivalent.
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Post by jamiecotc on Nov 18, 2016 20:16:51 GMT
DAI's open world isn't just an effect of DA2. It's a consequence of Skyrim's success. Agreed. What makes Skyrim great is that you go out and make up your own stories. (I think it was Mark Meer how had an elf that only chopped wood). I had a Nord who worked as a blacksmith for a while. She would go out and mine ore, smelt it and forge weapons, armor, and jewellery to sell. This had nothing to do w/ any of the quests and made crafting a part of a "slice of life" story. Gathering materials for crafting isn't really much of a story in DA:I. So, that's my biggest concern, that ME:A will be filled w/ MMO style fetch quests w/ little to no depth. But, there are people who like that style of play, so ... whatever.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 18, 2016 20:23:38 GMT
DAI's open world isn't just an effect of DA2. It's a consequence of Skyrim's success. Agreed. What makes Skyrim great is that you go out and make up your own stories. (I think it was Mark Meer how had an elf that only chopped wood). I had a Nord who worked as a blacksmith for a while. She would go out and mine ore, smelt it and forge weapons, armor, and jewellery to sell. This had nothing to do w/ any of the quests and made crafting a part of a "slice of life" story. Gathering materials for crafting isn't really much of a story in DA:I. So, that's my biggest concern, that ME:A will be filled w/ MMO style fetch quests w/ little to no depth. But, there are people who like that style of play, so ... whatever. I think MEA will be better then DAI in this department, even if by (at worst) a little bit.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 18, 2016 22:24:58 GMT
BW loves to overcorrect. Don't like the Mako, take it out. Inventory is a mess, take it out. Hate elevators, take them out. Don't like the ending to Mass Effect 3? Set the next game in a new galaxy. I like the idea of a "Mars Generation" type story and I think I could buy into it a lot more if I didn't know they did it to get around the endings. I know that's meta, but it just bugs me I guess. It's not a deal breaker, but it's more like Sole Survivor Shep working for Cerberus w/out mentioning a certain Thresher Maw incident. It's just sort of nagging and annoying because I know it's there, like a rock in your shoe. This, this, this. It's crazy they're still doing it considering how they should know by now that it hasn't really worked by and large. They bend over backwards to please fans WAY too much. When they her criticisms they shouldn't take it as "Oh, Linkenski hates this, let's address that by reworking that thing or remove it entirely" they should think "hm, that didn't work out as well as it should've, let's analyse what we've made and figure out how it can be done better or what changes we can make to improve the next game". I'm sure they do consider things but so often lately I feel like they're taking the "it's good enough" approach, and part of that is in how they just take exactly what fans have whined about and change the disliked element so it's the 180 degree opposite of what it was before. The problem in DAII was just as much that environments were repeated too often, so in DA:I they created massive areas and even made sure main missions didn't repeat environments when they really needed to like at the start of In Your Heart Shall Burn because the transition from launching the mission to just standing atop the mountain below the Breach was super anti-climactic for such a big turning point in the narrative. That was exactly when we'd have needed to go up that mountain again and face even harder demons. At the same time people want that response from BioWare to completely scrap everything to give them what they want in the game. Things like the new approach to inventory or making weapons use clips people still want BioWare to drop those systems and give them the systems they want without any compromise otherwise BioWare is dead and just a shill of EA because they aren't getting exactly what they want. There are multiple reasons why Dragon Age: Inquisition did go more like Skyrim and it is partly how much the community said it should another part is they were chasing the success of open world games. They did make mistakes, but at the same time the community isn't as forgiving of BioWare as they are of Bethesda for all the negative comments people say about the open-world problems of Dragon Age: Inquisition are the exact same problems I encounter in a Bethesda game so I am not sure why people were surprised to see the problems of the genre in the game.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 18, 2016 23:29:11 GMT
It's worse than that. Given their numbers and raw power, they could have blitzed the Citadel and all the homeworlds simultaneously, capture them all, shut off the relays, and pick the crippled remnants off one by one just like they've done every cycle before. Even dumb machines should have been able to manage that. How long since you played? Because it was very obvious the Reapers weren't able to do this. They usually relied on taking control of the Citadel to shut the Mass Relay network to everyone else, which they couldn't do in this cycle thanks to the Prothean scientists from Ilos. They were having a really hard time conquering the Turian home system thanks to them having to divide their forces to attack everyone one at the same time. Umm, how long since you played? Because all the Prothean scientists did was prevent the Keepers from receiving the signal to open the dark space relays. Saren, operating under Sovereign's instructions, was still able to manipulate the network (keeping Fifth fleet from reinforcing the Citadel fleet during he battle). I'm sure the Reaper fleet could have gotten some indoctrinated troops, geth, heck even some husks or Collectors to storm the Citadel after finishing the batarians off. Heck Cerberus nearly captured the Citadel with their cyber-zombie troops
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Post by hipi07 on Nov 19, 2016 4:11:23 GMT
It would be great if the species that arrive in Andromeda reject those of the Milky Way and try to cut ties and do their own thing, which would also allow them to largely forget the issues with the original trilogy and expand on their own with their own issues. Although I would imagine at some point those from the Milky Way would come back for what is theirs.
WAR BETWEEN GALAXIES AND RACE WARS INCOMING!!!11!1!111!!
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 19, 2016 5:18:47 GMT
DAI's open world isn't just an effect of DA2. It's a consequence of Skyrim's success. One could also call it a callback to the BG and BG2 days, though. I mean, DAI isn't truly an open world. IT's a number of very large zones to wander about in. Where it fell down was the side quests in them were...lacking... This big time, ha....I remember thinking that when playing DAI, it reminded me of each zone in BG quite a bit - if it had TW3 quality level side quests, the game would of gained DAO levels of long term acclaim and cult status I reckon...it just had far too much filler clutter and lackluster companions. All I wanted was a funny bro/girl Alastair 2.0 or at least someone I would genuinely want to grab a Thedas craft beer with.... Bull was the closest, but he wasn't anywhere near what I would call a rad companion (like Morrigan, Alistair or even bloody Oghren lol).
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Post by clips7 on Nov 20, 2016 5:25:45 GMT
I kinda liked where they was going with the reaper storyline. They was playing with them being somewhat creators of everything, and they kept them very mysterious, until the ending of 3. It would have been nice to have resolved the story of the reapers in a way that made them still somewhat relevant, in that they are still part of the universe, but they are no longer gathering races and recycling events so to speak.
It would have been interesting to have an entry where the reapers themselves where being threatened by another powerful entity, but from another universe. The use of the mass effects (or some other powerful mechanism) caused a rip in space/time and caused some other worldly creatures to threaten the Reapers (and our universe) that have remained peaceful and dormant since 3.
I like how this game will be self contained tho, (it needs a cool-down after the epic story-line of the Reapers) but i wouldn't mind seeing an ending scene where the screen fades and shows the reapers being completely slaughtered by these near omni-potent beings or creatures (leading us into the next game)....but eh....ultimately the reapers story and that particular generation's story has been told so i'm good with this new beginning. I haven't played DAI, so i don't have an opinion on how the gameplay is either beneficial or detrimental overall in relation to this game.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Nov 20, 2016 9:50:55 GMT
Though I am all for it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 11:00:27 GMT
Well I found it disappoiting to be quite honest. It's just doesn't make any sense to go out and explore an ENTIRE different galaxy when the one you're currently in is BARELY explored as it is. Fleeing the Reaper threats would be the only reason that could justify this risky initiative, exploring for the sake of exploring doesn't really make sense if you haven't even fully explored your galaxy. I still hope fleeing the Reapers is the real motive and the average Joe is not told about because this is a Council secret.
Unlike some posters here I do give a fuck about story and the plausibility of the motives behind this initiative. If the foundations of the story are shaky then the entire thing will collapse down due to its nonsensical premises.
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Post by javeart on Nov 20, 2016 11:34:45 GMT
Though I'm among those who doesn't really care much, I'm starting to feel good about the exploration motive, seeing that there's so many people who finds it reasonable. I mean, there's no need for a motive that sounds reasonable to the entire MW, you only need a motive that sound reasonable to about half a million people in the MW (some of them with lots of money) which is a very, very small porcentage that, taking the BSN as a sample, we probably already got here ... I'm sure there's a lot of people still in the MW that think the idea is absurd, but just as there's lot of people on earth nowadays who thinks it's abusrd to invest vast sums of moeny into space exploration when they could be spent here on medical research, for instance. So, the only real problem is if you can see your Ryder being one of those who thinks exploration for the sake exploration it's worthy or if you think you could give him/her another motive. I'm covered, fortunately, since I don't care
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 20, 2016 23:11:51 GMT
Well I found it disappoiting to be quite honest. It's just doesn't make any sense to go out and explore an ENTIRE different galaxy when the one you're currently in is BARELY explored as it is. Fleeing the Reaper threats would be the only reason that could justify this risky initiative, exploring for the sake of exploring doesn't really make sense if you haven't even fully explored your galaxy. I still hope fleeing the Reapers is the real motive and the average Joe is not told about because this is a Council secret. Unlike some posters here I do give a fuck about story and the plausibility of the motives behind this initiative. If the foundations of the story are shaky then the entire thing will collapse down due to its nonsensical premises. A great many of us care. We've had 4 years, though, to contemplate the benefits of swallowing a small amount of BS for the greater good of the IP. I believe that's what we are doing in this case. If we were going to involve the Reapers, they should've just picked an ending and kept us in the Milky Way. (This would've been my preference.) If we are going to run to a new galaxy, lets make a clean break and build a new narrative. Ultimately, we don't know what the true impetus for the Ai will prove to be. "Reapers" is one possibility. We won't know until we play the game. It's too early to call "BS" on the plot when we don't know the plot.
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Post by DragonEffect on Nov 20, 2016 23:42:17 GMT
This retcon thingy makes no sense. After the Reapers have supposedly destroyed Earth and eradicated mankind, why would the humans that managed to spawn a succesful colonisation in Andromeda bother to return to a destroyed galaxy?
They would just remain where they are and forget about the Milky Way. To the descendants of the original colonists, Earth would no longer be their home planet, but the new Andromedan world where they were born.
They MIGHT attempt an expedition to Earth just out of curiosity, but even then, they'd know everything was destroyed. Remember, the Reapers leave NO TRACE WHATSOEVER of past civilisations behind. In ME1, it's stated quite clearly that it was odd how the Protheans left almost no trace of their civilisation.
The same thing will have happened to humanity on Earth. So a trip could be made out of curiosity, but seeing as the Andromedan humans would find nothing relevant there, they wouldn't keep returning to a destroyed world.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 20, 2016 23:53:32 GMT
One could also call it a callback to the BG and BG2 days, though. I mean, DAI isn't truly an open world. IT's a number of very large zones to wander about in. Where it fell down was the side quests in them were...lacking... Indeed, but the switch was made right after Skyrim's enormous success, so I think this was the main reason for it. Yay, another context that calls for a Witcher 3 comparison! Well, Witcher 3 did the same even. As a Witcher 2 fan I remember being worried when I saw those viking "Foos-roh-dah" skellige guys in the early trailers and I was also discouraged by how all the marketing was "hey guys, this game is bigger than Skyrim!" because to me that's not what I loved about Witcher 2 (size, I mean) and in general developers need to stop with this arms race of making the biggest games. Unless you think Michael Bay movies are great I don't get the appeal, considering bigger spaces mean need for bigger scope of attention to detail and that usually results in less attention to detail as a whole. Still, I think one hope we may have for Andromeda here is exactly this, that Skyrim was the motivation for DA:I and Witcher 3 which both were well underway to come out in 2014 and 2015 respectively after starting development in 2012 after Skyrim hit the market big time. Andromeda has had about 2 years roughly to re-adjust course. Although, every new game coming out even this year seems to be boasting about open-worldness. Sometimes I wish the AAA market was less monotonous about the latest trend, sigh. If anything, it's going to be Skyrim but in space and with guns and alien sex. What's not to like here?
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 20, 2016 23:57:34 GMT
Indeed, but the switch was made right after Skyrim's enormous success, so I think this was the main reason for it. Yay, another context that calls for a Witcher 3 comparison! Well, Witcher 3 did the same even. As a Witcher 2 fan I remember being worried when I saw those viking "Foos-roh-dah" skellige guys in the early trailers and I was also discouraged by how all the marketing was "hey guys, this game is bigger than Skyrim!" because to me that's not what I loved about Witcher 2 (size, I mean) and in general developers need to stop with this arms race of making the biggest games. Unless you think Michael Bay movies are great I don't get the appeal, considering bigger spaces mean need for bigger scope of attention to detail and that usually results in less attention to detail as a whole. Still, I think one hope we may have for Andromeda here is exactly this, that Skyrim was the motivation for DA:I and Witcher 3 which both were well underway to come out in 2014 and 2015 respectively after starting development in 2012 after Skyrim hit the market big time. Andromeda has had about 2 years roughly to re-adjust course. Although, every new game coming out even this year seems to be boasting about open-worldness. Sometimes I wish the AAA market was less monotonous about the latest trend, sigh. If anything, it's going to be Skyrim but in space and with guns and alien sex. What's not to like here? Yeah, I agree that TW3 was influenced by Skyrim's success as well. Skyrim and (probably more for the wider market and not just rpgs) GTAV are the reason of the increase of open world games in recent years.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 21, 2016 0:09:44 GMT
Yeah, and to be honest it's an extremely good template. Skyrim's sucess and all was understandable because at the time it was pretty beautiful and vast and all that, but Bethesda's RPGs are IMO a bloated mess whereas GTA is just, oh man, it's just soooo good on so many different levels both in action, open world, exploration and to some extent characters.
The Witcher 3 devs also said they were highly inspired by Red Dead Redemption and it shows, really. I hope ME:A's devs in Montreal are really aiming for some GTA-like design rather than another Skyrim wannabe, because GTA is a much more dynamic game.
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Post by Tylaen on Nov 21, 2016 0:53:43 GMT
Indeed, but the switch was made right after Skyrim's enormous success, so I think this was the main reason for it. If anything, it's going to be Skyrim but in space and with guns and alien sex. What's not to like here? Considering I greatly loathed Skyrim after the novelty wore off and the big world was no longer impressive, but just a pretty wasteland of boring NPC's and combat less exciting than slapping a wooden wall with a paper towel. I find very little to enjoy In people attempting to emulate it. I don't consider "mods" have retroactively made the game good, as much as I consider it to have made it briefly less monotonous. Moreover, I don't consider modders making the game "good" to be an achievement I'd stick to Bethesda.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 21, 2016 0:56:54 GMT
I like Skyrim. Currently playing the special edition.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 21, 2016 1:07:03 GMT
If we were going to involve the Reapers, they should've just picked an ending and kept us in the Milky Way. (This would've been my preference.) Yep. Pick destroy. Or don't pick one of the endings, but an ending that wasn't in the game? hahaha After the coup, Hackett mentions that its believed the crucible has enough energy to destroy the reapers. Ok. So let the reapers be destroyed. Once the crucible docks with the Citadel, and after the arms are opened, it fires its bag of goodies throughout the galaxy destroying the reapers. What this does is it gets rid of the magic carpet ride up to lala land. It gets rid of the catalyst aka intellligence aka Leviathan turd. It gets rid of you do not know them and there's not enough time to explain comment. It gets rid of synthesis is the final evolution of all life comment. It gets rid of pull this, jump in that and shoot here endings. My personal preference is to remake the trilogy
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Post by Gwydden on Nov 21, 2016 1:16:31 GMT
If anything, it's going to be Skyrim but in space and with guns and alien sex. What's not to like here? Considering I greatly loathed Skyrim after the novelty wore off and the big world was no longer impressive, but just a pretty wasteland of boring NPC's and combat less exciting than slapping a wooden wall with a paper towel, I very find little to enjoy In people attempting to emulate it. I don't consider "mods" have retroactively made the game good, as much as I consider it to have made it briefly less monotonous. Moreover, I don't consider modders making the game "good" to be an achievement I'd stick to Bethesda. I feel inclined to believe Skyrim's immense, long-lasting popularity has less to do with anything in the game itself and more with how moddable it is. And yet, games trying to cash in on the same formula tend to follow the former rather than the latter. If being highly editable is the prime determiner of a game's quality, then RPG Maker and Warcraft 3 must be some of the greatest games in history. I won't mind ME:A having vast amounts of dull, pointless content as long as I am able to skip it in favor of better material, as with ME1. The bane of DA:I was that it forced you to go through some of its utterly unappealing filler. Without that mandatory aspect to it, it might have been at least a tolerable game. On this thread's actual subject, I must say I find myself caring less and less for how solid the premise is. ME:A is, to all intents and purposes, a spin-off or soft reboot, and should not be judged relative to how well it aligns with the trilogy. It is more of its own thing, and I am starting to believe that obsessing over the premise is missing the forest for the trees. It doesn't matter how we get there; what matters is whether the main story itself or the characters are any good.
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