The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Nov 27, 2016 1:49:31 GMT
Because the same happened in all games, Examples? Of what, ME squadmates be all silent or not interacting in the various custcenes? It happened in almost every quest in ME2, when said squadmate wasn't in his recruitment quest, loyalty quest, or the suicide mission. They all stand there without saying anything, or doing something. Same can be said for most quests in ME as well.
|
|
inherit
Banshee
771
0
Sept 4, 2018 23:27:21 GMT
5,053
BansheeOwnage
I was called Ryder before it was cool... ...I'd love to, you know, be social and things.
1,231
August 2016
bansheeownage
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
11290
7428
|
Post by BansheeOwnage on Nov 27, 2016 1:51:34 GMT
The series had an issue with overuse of the Overranked Soldier trope. By ME3 Tali has gone from FNG to Admiral and government official, Garrus has gone from C-Sec cop to in the line of succession for Primarch of Palaven, Ashley has made the mind-boggling jump from Gunnery Chief to Lt. Commander, Kaidan has jumped from Lieutenant to Major and now technically outranks Shepard, Wrex has gone from mercenary and bounty hunter to War-Chief of Tuchanka, and Liara from mild-mannered scientist to Shadow Broker. Even new characters weren't immune from it. Vega, despite having a personality better suited for a junior enlisted man, is a lieutenant. Don't forget Vega being offered entrance into the N7 programme. Also, I forget, in the Alliance, how many ranks is Major above Lieutenant? 2? It's worth noting, though, that Kaidan only outranks Shepard on away-missions, since Shep's still the captain of the ship, regardless of rank. I don't think Wrex fits much the Overranked Soldier trope though. Other then he is old (in his specie's term) compared to the others who are quite young, he was already a clan leader back in the days, before he became a mercenary. It's not far fetched he became a krogan leader in ME2. You could probably excuse Garrus, too, by virtue of him only having that rank on account of tons of other people in the line dying. There was no reason to have her on the roster. She could do the same as Xen and Raan and still be able to get peace. She didn't need to be a squadmate for that Garrus added nothing to the gqame. No reason for him to be a squadmate If you take that route to the logical extreme, you're not going to have very many squadmates. Bioware doesn't make them all plot-important/critical, which is probably a good thing considering it would probably introduce many contrivances into the main plot in order to make all of them critical in the first place. Besides, as far as I'm concerned, Garrus or any other squadmate does have reasons to be there. They're skilled and depending on your character, are Shepard's friend. Having her stand there doing nothing while the geth uploads the code does make not care about her people. Why couldn't she push the geth over the edge? How about shooting the thing? Or better yet, stab the thing in the back? Remember what she did to the geth when it attacked Shepard? She never hesitated, but yet, for some reason, doesn't make any effort to stop the upload. You might want to cut Tali a bit of slack. I'm sure you've heard of someone freezing in a tense situation. Sometimes in disbelief, sometimes for other reasons. Fight, flight, or freeze. Not to mention she's barely an adult and is not a hardened soldier by any means, nor is she supposed to be. But all of that is ignoring the real reasons Bioware makes characters do or not do things in cutscenes, and sometimes they're not reflective of a character's personality, but merely accommodating an expedient scene. Or just sloppy. It happens.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 25, 2024 12:42:54 GMT
26,299
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Nov 27, 2016 2:16:01 GMT
Don't forget Vega being offered entrance into the N7 programme. Doesn't mean he will be accepted. I'm sure there were others that were invited to the N7 program in the past. That's fine What reason does Garrus have for being there? If he's not in ME3, nothing has changed. Tali didn't need to be a squadmate to achieve peace. Just have her fill the role of Xen on the dreadnought and Raan on Rannoch Just because a character is a friend doesn't mean they have to be a squadmate. No. I doubt any quarian would either for doing nothing. Then why didn't she freeze when it came to stabbing the geth when it attacked Shepard? Another reason to not have her on the squad or be a squadmate I agree with that
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2073
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:56:53 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:56:53 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 2:20:29 GMT
The series had an issue with overuse of the Overranked Soldier trope. By ME3 Tali has gone from FNG to Admiral and government official, Garrus has gone from C-Sec cop to in the line of succession for Primarch of Palaven, Ashley has made the mind-boggling jump from Gunnery Chief to Lt. Commander, Kaidan has jumped from Lieutenant to Major and now technically outranks Shepard, Wrex has gone from mercenary and bounty hunter to War-Chief of Tuchanka, and Liara from mild-mannered scientist to Shadow Broker. Even new characters weren't immune from it. Vega, despite having a personality better suited for a junior enlisted man, is a lieutenant. Don't forget Vega being offered entrance into the N7 programme. Also, I forget, in the Alliance, how many ranks is Major above Lieutenant? 2? It's worth noting, though, that Kaidan only outranks Shepard on away-missions, since Shep's still the captain of the ship, regardless of rank. In the real world Major and Lt. Commander are basically the same rank, just for two different branches of service. Major is the Army or Marine equivalent of a Navy Lt. Commander. In the Alliance rank structure I believe Major is two ranks above Lt. Commander. If I remember right, an Alliance Major was the groundside equivalent of naval Captain, with Staff Commander in between. In retrospect I wonder if maybe the writers forgot they made Major a much higher rank in the Alliance than it is in the real world. If an Alliance Major was the same as the real world rank, Kaidan and Shepard would be basically be the same rank, but Shepard is still the senior officer by virtue of having been promoted into it earlier. That is at least assuming that there is no dialogue acknowledging that Kaidan outranks Shepard in ME3. I can't recall now.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 27, 2016 2:22:49 GMT
Don't forget Vega being offered entrance into the N7 programme. Also, I forget, in the Alliance, how many ranks is Major above Lieutenant? 2? It's worth noting, though, that Kaidan only outranks Shepard on away-missions, since Shep's still the captain of the ship, regardless of rank. In the real world Major and Lt. Commander are basically the same rank, just for two different branches of service. Major is the Army or Marine equivalent of a Navy Lt. Commander. In the Alliance rank structure I believe Major is two ranks above Lt. Commander. If I remember right, an Alliance Major was the groundside equivalent of naval Captain, with Staff Commander in between. In retrospect I wonder if maybe the writers forgot they made Major a much higher rank in the Alliance than it is in the real world. If an Alliance Major was the same as the real world rank, Kaidan and Shepard would be basically be the same rank, but Shepard is still the senior officer. That is at least assuming that there is no dialogue acknowledging that Kaidan outranks Shepard in ME3. I can't recall now. Not to mention Shepard is a SPECTRE so is above the ranks of the Council races, humanity included, thus the rank Kaidan has over Shepard is meaningless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2073
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:56:53 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:56:53 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 2:40:32 GMT
In the real world Major and Lt. Commander are basically the same rank, just for two different branches of service. Major is the Army or Marine equivalent of a Navy Lt. Commander. In the Alliance rank structure I believe Major is two ranks above Lt. Commander. If I remember right, an Alliance Major was the groundside equivalent of naval Captain, with Staff Commander in between. In retrospect I wonder if maybe the writers forgot they made Major a much higher rank in the Alliance than it is in the real world. If an Alliance Major was the same as the real world rank, Kaidan and Shepard would be basically be the same rank, but Shepard is still the senior officer. That is at least assuming that there is no dialogue acknowledging that Kaidan outranks Shepard in ME3. I can't recall now. Not that any of it matters. Shepard is a SPECTRE so is above the ranks of the Council races, humanity included. That's incorrect actually. A Spectre is outside the Alliance chain-of-command. In order for a Spectre to outrank any of the military officers, Spectres would have to be part of the organizational hierarchy and the chain-of-command, rather than being separate from it. For example in ME1 Nihlus is not in command of the Normandy, Captain Anderson is. Spectre status alone isn't enough to confer the authority to command an Alliance warship to Nihlus. He is merely a passenger, albeit an important one. Anderson, and later Shepard, command Alliance warships because they're officers in the Alliance navy. The authority to command the vessel is conferred from their position within the Alliance's organizational hierarchy. That's as true for Shepard as it was for Anderson. Remember it is Udina (an Alliance politician) who arranges for Shepard to command the Normandy after Anderson is forced to step down. All Spectre status grants is the ability to operate independently from Alliance command. Shepard determines where the Normandy goes and what it does, rather than some Admiral. The crew however answers to Shepard because he or she is an Alliance officer. There have been real world equivalents. Many of the of the OSS and SOE operatives that were parachuted in occupied France during the Second World War held simultaneous positions as both members of civilian intelligence agencies, and officers in their respective country's armed forces. Any authority to command military personnel would have come from their status as military officers, not their status as intelligence operatives. Spectres, or at least those from military backgrounds like Shepard, are pretty much the same deal as those OSS or SOE operatives, except with some Judge Dredd thrown in.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 27, 2016 3:42:07 GMT
Not that any of it matters. Shepard is a SPECTRE so is above the ranks of the Council races, humanity included. That's incorrect actually. A Spectre is outside the Alliance chain-of-command. In order for a Spectre to outrank any of the military officers, Spectres would have to be part of the organizational hierarchy and the chain-of-command, rather than being separate from it. For example in ME1 Nihlus is not in command of the Normandy, Captain Anderson is. Spectre status alone isn't enough to confer the authority to command an Alliance warship to Nihlus. He is merely a passenger, albeit an important one. Anderson, and later Shepard, command Alliance warships because they're officers in the Alliance navy. The authority to command the vessel is conferred from their position within the Alliance's organizational hierarchy. That's as true for Shepard as it was for Anderson. Remember it is Udina (an Alliance politician) who arranges for Shepard to command the Normandy after Anderson is forced to step down. All Spectre status grants is the ability to operate independently from Alliance command. Shepard determines where the Normandy goes and what it does, rather than some Admiral. The crew however answers to Shepard because he or she is an Alliance officer. There have been real world equivalents. Many of the of the OSS and SOE operatives that were parachuted in occupied France during the Second World War held simultaneous positions as both members of civilian intelligence agencies, and officers in their respective country's armed forces. Any authority to command military personnel would have come from their status as military officers, not their status as intelligence operatives. Spectres, or at least those from military backgrounds like Shepard, are pretty much the same deal as those OSS or SOE operatives, except with some Judge Dredd thrown in. That's what I meant when I said they are above them. I didn't mean above as in the SPECTREs outranked the officers of the militaries, I meant above as in the officers can't command the SPECTREs, and that the SPECTREs aren't held to the codes the militaries are. So even though Kaidan was a Major and Shepard a Lieutenant Commander, Shepard would not be under Kaidan's command since Shepard is a SPECTRE. That said because of their station as the Council's right hands, the military and law enforcement personnel of Citadel Space tended to obey the command of SPECTREs.
|
|