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Post by Shinobu on Nov 20, 2016 16:15:31 GMT
This thread title, tho. Every time I read it, I think: "from the front?"
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Post by Kian on Nov 20, 2016 18:09:03 GMT
"This also extends to characters' sexualities. BioWare has been praised for its diversity and inclusion of various sexual orientations in its games, but it has also been criticized for shoehorning them in, particularly in regards to bisexual party members. While characters have various sexual orientations in Andromeda, Walters said the team made sure that it makes sense for the individuals, and doesn't just come out of left field. He feels Andromeda does this much better than past games. "It has to be a part of who they are," Walters says. "It can't just be, 'We need to have three male and three female [options].' We do look at the balance and make sure there's good inclusivity, but I'd much rather say if we need to do that then we have to rethink that character." This sounds extremely promising, nothing grates on my guacamole more than shoehorned sexual orientation or characters that seem out of context story and situation wise (DA2 and Inquisition, I'm looking at you). I'm all for every sexual orientation being represented and different forms of relationships being possible, from friendship to quick & casual to full blown romance...but everything needs to make sense, and not feel like a 'token' gesture.... cheapens the whole experience IMO. Yeah, I agree. I wish bioware would stop shoehorning straight romances to fill a token role and get back to making the three dimensional queer characters we all know and love Lowering the salt levels for a bit, but I'm always super wary of the whole "sexuality has to make sense for the character" because like, at least in my opinion, that sort of thing isn't visibly tied to a person's background or personality. It's like, there's nothing stopping the by the book military commando from being just as gay as the smarmy red sand smuggler. Things like why a character might be slow to trust should reasonably make sense - have a reason - for being so. Why a lady prefers other ladies, not so much. Of course I'm saying this as a person who isn't privy to BWs character writing secrets, so I just don't know the process of how they decide on these things. But they have a track record when it comes to who's straight and who's queer. And while I do associate the whole "Queerness has to make sense for a character'' thing more with DA, which definitely has a type when it comes to sexuality, hearing this on the ME side of things isn't so heartening. Considering that ME2 had only one token pan mini romance out of 6 hetero options and it took until ME3 for mlm to have anything, I'm not sure I fully trust the ME team's sense. I'm gonna be miffed if there are no dudes for my broRyder to kiss because it "didn't make sense". Of course this is about romances, but I'd absolutely love more queer characters who aren't romances, especially within our squad. Maybe that'd help to make the queer romances less token. At any rate, I hope that I'm wrong on these points, and looking at their tweets I'm sure that I am, especially if a new team made up of fans of the original trilogy are able to point out its flaws so they can fix them. \ I obviously care too much about this. Great post.I absolutely agree and let's not forget the ME team has/had people of great intellect who awarded us with precious bits of wisdom like "we always imagined Shepard as str8" (in response to people asking why no gay content, more specifically no MALE gay content). Obviously, there will be bad apples in any gathering, so by no means do I blame the whole team, after all, ME trilogy is part of a handful of games I consider my all time favorites. But, facts are facts: ME1 and ME2 with 0 m/m action, while at the same time they were full of angsty str8 teen fantasies, and that speaks volumes. At the end of the day, I'm still supporting Bioware as one, if not THE one, of the most inclusive companies out there and I'll probably love the game. I'm also not blind to progress being made, and the fact ME3 included gay romance (and the first gay male ever - not bi, curious, str8-until-now, etc, but actually gay) is progress. I hope they continue the trend PS: The "shoehorned sexuality" is an entirely different discussion. I'm firmly on the "I call BS" side of things in 99% of cases, where it turns out "shoehorned sexuality" is just a not so clever way for some individuals to say they want less icky gays in their game (more specifically they want less icky male gays, society tells them str8 men love lesbians and so they will gush about that in the lamest way possible at any chance).
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Post by Cirvante on Nov 20, 2016 20:08:20 GMT
I have high hopes, DAI was a good step in the right direction for progressive romances with more not including sexual encounters. Who knows, maybe there's a species you can romance that isn't sexual compatible? Maybe they just want companionship. Andromeda is full of opportunities *u* There are people who have sex with cars. 'Sexually incompatible' isn't really a thing for humans, because eventually someone crazy enough will come along and have sex with it anyway. Where there's a will there's a way.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 20, 2016 20:17:01 GMT
This thread title, tho. Every time I read it, I think: "from the front?" Oh we're going to make first contact with aliens, alright
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Post by Pon.ee on Nov 20, 2016 20:55:16 GMT
I have high hopes, DAI was a good step in the right direction for progressive romances with more not including sexual encounters. Who knows, maybe there's a species you can romance that isn't sexual compatible? Maybe they just want companionship. Andromeda is full of opportunities *u* There are people who have sex with cars. 'Sexually incompatible' isn't really a thing for humans, because eventually someone crazy enough will come along and have sex with it anyway. Where there's a will there's a way. Ok if we're being technical yes someone with a cloaca can still have a good time with someone who has a peepee, but my original point still stands. I think what would be neat is more unconventional romance moments; I;d especially love to see them in regards to the new species. In DAI one moment that stuck out with Solas was you visited him in a dream and you could have a cheeky smooch and then he'd be like "we can talk more....WHEN YOU WAKE UP" and it was like. Hot damn what? That was so very unexpected but also incredibly endearing! Love to have a traditional date with a more traditional romance but I hope Bioware pushed the boat out in regards to cultural differences in wooing someone.
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Post by Cirvante on Nov 20, 2016 21:05:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 21:26:28 GMT
Scrolling down forum index ...
Saw Cirvante was last post in GI thread ...
Clicked on link ...
Was not disappointed.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 21, 2016 11:06:21 GMT
This whole "new approach to relationships" is one of the things I'm most looking forward, really. Granted, it's not like we know enough about the game to be excited about something else, but knowing characters is possibly what BioWare does best, this should be good. You and 90% of Bioware's current fanbase, unfortunately. No offense.
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Post by helios969 on Nov 21, 2016 11:39:01 GMT
Honestly this sounds like more of what we saw in DAI, which is what I am expecting MEA to morph into at this point. Not exactly hyping me up. Let's just hope they provide some attractive females this time around, because as much as I enjoyed Cassandra's and Sera's characters, neither was exactly Maxim material. Josephine was okay, but the romance felt tacked on and underdeveloped.
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Post by kumazan on Nov 21, 2016 12:23:02 GMT
This whole "new approach to relationships" is one of the things I'm most looking forward, really. Granted, it's not like we know enough about the game to be excited about something else, but knowing characters is possibly what BioWare does best, this should be good. You and 90% of Bioware's current fanbase, unfortunately. No offense. None taken. I've got no problem to admit that relationships, be them romantic or not, with NPCs are one of the things I enjoy the most in RPGs, which is I was initally drawn to the genre by BioWare games.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 21, 2016 12:40:28 GMT
This whole "new approach to relationships" is one of the things I'm most looking forward, really. Granted, it's not like we know enough about the game to be excited about something else, but knowing characters is possibly what BioWare does best, this should be good. You and 90% of Bioware's current fanbase, unfortunately. No offense. In itself it's not really a bad thing... I just think making such an attraction out of romance with fictional characters which are always to some extent player-pandering is pretty shameful. I would be more interested if romances didn't exist mainly to pander but instead to build a stronger connection to some of the main story threads, like how I felt in KOTOR and KOTOR 2 the romances actually develop the characters more than simply "player1 and Cassandra fell in love"
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 21, 2016 12:49:48 GMT
You and 90% of Bioware's current fanbase, unfortunately. No offense. None taken. I've got no problem to admit that relationships, be them romantic or not, with NPCs are one of the things I enjoy the most in RPGs, which is I was initally drawn to the genre by BioWare games. Yes, I get that. The NPCs are one of the big factors for their games. It's just that DAI boards burned me out regarding all the topics over romance. I made a bad assumption once I saw your avatar. Apologies for any harm.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 21, 2016 12:53:54 GMT
You and 90% of Bioware's current fanbase, unfortunately. No offense. In itself it's not really a bad thing... I just think making such an attraction out of romance with fictional characters which are always to some extent player-pandering is pretty shameful. I would be more interested if romances didn't exist mainly to pander but instead to build a stronger connection to some of the main story threads, like how I felt in KOTOR and KOTOR 2 the romances actually develop the characters more than simply "player1 and Cassandra fell in love." That's kinda how I feel. It can be cringe worthy. I consider romances to be a bonus that help the PC become more organic in my playthrough. Not something that will make me reconsider my life and how these X characters made me obsessed with their VAs at the point of stalking them in real life. Sighs.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 12:55:53 GMT
This whole "new approach to relationships" is one of the things I'm most looking forward, really. Granted, it's not like we know enough about the game to be excited about something else, but knowing characters is possibly what BioWare does best, this should be good. You and 90% of Bioware's current fanbase, unfortunately. No offense. I don't see the problem in Bioware wanting to improve on the relationship system, intended as all types of relationship, an not just romantic ones. I do like to form different types of relationships with the characters in a game, and I like they want to improve on that. Granted, it's not the core feature I look for in an rpg, but it's an important one.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 12:59:37 GMT
None taken. I've got no problem to admit that relationships, be them romantic or not, with NPCs are one of the things I enjoy the most in RPGs, which is I was initally drawn to the genre by BioWare games. Yes, I get that. The NPCs are one of the big factors for their games. It's just that DAI boards burned me out regarding all the topics over romance. I made a bad assumption once I saw your avatar. Apologies for any harm. For the limited experiences I had on both boards (since I generally didn't spend a lot of time on BSN after a game's release) the ME boards of LI were far worse then DAI's. Though to be fair, romance threads in general were one of the trinity of topics that lead to a lot of heated discussions, among Cerberus and Mages/Templars.
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Post by kumazan on Nov 21, 2016 13:02:07 GMT
None taken. I've got no problem to admit that relationships, be them romantic or not, with NPCs are one of the things I enjoy the most in RPGs, which is I was initally drawn to the genre by BioWare games. Yes, I get that. The NPCs are one of the big factors for their games. It's just that DAI boards burned me out regarding all the topics over romance. I made a bad assumption once I saw your avatar. Apologies for any harm. The only harm done is that you quoted me before I could edit in the "why" my previous post is lacking. Seriously though, I understand what you mean, sometimes people can go a bit over the edge with romances, but let them enjoy themselves. I'm actually more excited about the (allegedly) more shooting bottles with Garrus moments than actual romances.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 21, 2016 13:05:58 GMT
Yes, I get that. The NPCs are one of the big factors for their games. It's just that DAI boards burned me out regarding all the topics over romance. I made a bad assumption once I saw your avatar. Apologies for any harm. For the limited experiences I had on both boards (since I generally didn't spend a lot of time on BSN after a game's release) the ME boards of LI were far worse then DAI's. Though to be fair, romance threads in general were one of the trinity of topics that lead to a lot of heated discussions, among Cerberus and Mages/Templars. Ah, nostalgia trip. Besides the common clashes between LIs fanboys in the ME boards, I don't remember much spread out controversy, minus ME3's ending. There was that one time where a certain user managed to get the entire romance section under lockdown. That was funny. But the DAI boards, man... it's like Dragon Age has its own target audience aside from all other games Bioware made. Some people just play those games for the romances. It's crazy.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 21, 2016 13:13:52 GMT
Yes, I get that. The NPCs are one of the big factors for their games. It's just that DAI boards burned me out regarding all the topics over romance. I made a bad assumption once I saw your avatar. Apologies for any harm. The only harm done is that you quoted me before I could edit in the "why" my previous post is lacking.
Seriously though, I understand what you mean, sometimes people can go a bit over the edge with romances, but let them enjoy themselves. I'm actually more excited about the (allegedly) more shooting bottles with Garrus moments than actual romances. Oh, yes. I'm bored inside my college's library. Guilty. The last bit, I couldn't agree more, that moment was such a prime example of Bioware's finest writing, really engaging. Cannot wait for more. Hopefully we can "snowboard" with the Khet on some of those desert environments.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 13:14:41 GMT
For the limited experiences I had on both boards (since I generally didn't spend a lot of time on BSN after a game's release) the ME boards of LI were far worse then DAI's. Though to be fair, romance threads in general were one of the trinity of topics that lead to a lot of heated discussions, among Cerberus and Mages/Templars. Ah, nostalgia trip. Besides the common clashes between LIs fanboys in the ME boards, I don't remember much spread out controversy, minus ME3's ending. There was that one time where a certain user managed to get the entire romance section under lockdown. That was funny. But the DAI boards, man... it's like Dragon Age has its own target audience aside from all other games Bioware made. Some people just play those games for the romances. It's crazy. Eh, I was part of those discussions, especially mages/templars. They were almost often heated . True about the endings. And the ME3 romance boards were closed for what some fans call the Mirandalorians Civil War. From what I saw, there were and are always people that have romances as their main or one of the main reasons for play Bioware games. I don't think there's nothing wrong with that. People prefer different stuff and play games for different reasons. The main problem, in my opinion, was the lack of moderation. Hopefully this board will do better then the game will be released (not only about romances, but the whole game experience).
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 21, 2016 13:20:27 GMT
Ah, nostalgia trip. Besides the common clashes between LIs fanboys in the ME boards, I don't remember much spread out controversy, minus ME3's ending. There was that one time where a certain user managed to get the entire romance section under lockdown. That was funny. But the DAI boards, man... it's like Dragon Age has its own target audience aside from all other games Bioware made. Some people just play those games for the romances. It's crazy. Eh, I was part of those discussions, especially mages/templars. They were almost often heated . True about the endings. And the ME3 romance boards were closed for what some fans call the Mirandalorians Civil War. From what I saw, there were and are always people that have romances as their main or one of the main reasons for play Bioware games. I don't think there's nothing wrong with that. People prefer different stuff and play games for different reasons. The main problem, in my opinion, was the lack of moderation. Hopefully this board will do better then the game will be released (not only about romances, but the whole game experience). I was mostly talking about the ME sections, but you're right, the Templar/Mage threads were just as problematic. Another example of people getting too obsessed with certain parts of the game when there was so much more to it. That's what I'm saying, basically.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 13:46:35 GMT
Ahh, there is no shame in liking romances, checking out the nookies, and the like in the video games. One does't really have to throw a veil of being an affecianado of art and character development over it. Guys, it's fun, it was always fun, and it always will be. But, by its nature of dealing with the individuality, it is a hit and miss. No need to try to imply that other players are somehow inferrior in their tastes because you have not stumble on your je be sais quoi in a particular digital story. You might in the next. I hope you do, because when it clicks, it makes the story even more awesome.
BioWare was committed to improving the npc dialogues feature since the first snippets of banters incited a wave of fan love in 1997. If it were possible to be head over heels with an npc (and vice versa) on the strength of a soundset and a paper doll with a portrait, it is that much easier with all the contemporary bells and whistles.
So, it's all cool beans, and no accounting for tastes, and all going to be well, no need to pre-emptively place blame on other players for something you do not expect to get or get too much of.
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Post by javeart on Nov 21, 2016 14:14:01 GMT
Ahh, there is no shame in liking romances, checking out the nookies, and the like in the video games. One does't really have to throw a veil of being an affecianado of art and character development over it. Guys, it's fun, it was always fun, and it always will be. But, by its nature of dealing with the individuality, it is a hit and miss. No need to try to imply that other players are somehow inferrior in their tastes because you have not stumble on your je be sais quoi in a particular digital story. You might in the next. I hope you do, because when it clicks, it makes the story even more awesome. BioWare was committed to improving the npc dialogues feature since the first snippets of banters incited a wave of fan love in 1997. If it were possible to be head over heels with an npc (and vice versa) on the strength of a soundset and a paper doll with a portrait, it is that much easier with all the contemporary bells and whistles. So, it's all cool beans, and no accounting for tastes, and all going to be well, no need to pre-emptively place blame on other players for something you do not expect to get or get too much of. I was thinking precisely this while I read it, that I could perfectly be one of the DA "romance creeps" (ok, I don't stalk VA, but I've already bored even myself with my constant need of saying every time I get the chance "i don't want to kill Solas" ), but that's only because I like a lot my canon LIs in DA, while I'm much more cold whenn it comes to ME romances, because I'm not particularly thrilled about any of them, and all my passion it's about Shepard herself, and maybe Garrus (but not even as an LI) and Mordin Being passionate about any particular or all romances doesn't mean you're not passionate about anything else, anyway, that's the assumption I don't understand. I don't think there's a lot of people who would put dozens or hundred of hours in a game for contect which barely account for, what? 15 minutes? Though, even if they do, who cares?
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 21, 2016 14:37:27 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Well, if Mac said Andromeda avoids shoehorning and past romance formulae, we may encounter fewer "varieties" and in depth relationships. To offset this, we get the one night stands.
I bet there are a few "out there" that want both the one nighters and the deep relationship. Will there be another Morrigan?
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 14:40:13 GMT
I don't think Andrew was saying everyone passionate about romances play Bioware games just for those. There are some who said they do, or at least it's their primary reason. And it's fine. Everyone wants or likes different things from a video game, or entertainment in general.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 14:41:21 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Well, if Mac said Andromeda avoids shoehorning and past romance formulae, we may encounter fewer "varieties" and in depth relationships. To offset this, we get the one night stands.
I bet there are a few "out there" that want both the one nighters and the deep relationship. Will there be another Morrigan?
With Morrigan, do you mean a romance arc with someone who is in general against romantic relationships and more about sex?
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