Facial animations and hair concerns

Sorry, wacky wasn't the right word. I was rushing and tired and apparently remembered it wrong from watching the stream once while excited Unconventional might be closer to what I was looking for, so my mind immediately jumped to Inquisition and its rather unconventional styles that were also buzzed/bald etc. which is what worried me, not that there would be more hair options for black characters. That's obviously a good thing!

Unlikely as it is, I really hope there are a lot of different kinds of styles available, as well as at least a few different options in each of those styles, if that makes sense. For instance, my gripe with Inquisition wasn't the styles they had, but the styles they lacked; conventional ones. Call me boring, but that's what I like.

To be honest, there aren't a lot of black people where I live, and the kind of hair Sloane had screamed anything but "average" to me. You probably have more of an insight into that than I do, so forgive my ignorance on the matter.

I thought the animations themselves were pretty good (an improvement for Bioware at least, probably courtesy of mocap). It would certainly be classic Bioware to have the important hand movements happen offscreen, and while it looks like that when seen quickly, after watching the gif below frame-by-frame, I actually have to give them credit since the grab actually does visibly transition to a good grip in a fluid manner. Her left hand continues to rotate the Carnifex(?) after pushing it away until it's facing the turian, while her right hand grabs the grip, then her left hand comes to steady her aim.

But you're right that the interrupt had a couple of logical issues. The most obvious is the fact that not one, but two krogan bodyguards failed to do anything to stop her - shooting, hitting, biotics, tech - something. Sloane is obviously wasting money on them, unless they're actually not supposed to have itchy trigger-fingers for some reason  This is often an issue with disarming scenes across all media. I feel like it should have started a fully-fledged fight just by nature of people's reflexes. But it doesn't bother me that much.

Her staring directly at Sloane instead of at the turian and the gun she's grabbing looks a bit odd, too. While it's possible it's on purpose to show how skilled Ryder is (doesn't even need to look!), I think it might have something to do with her not seeming to have any upper-facial expressions yet, so maybe that includes where she's looking and it's just not done yet.

And a couple of random thoughts: First, I just realized how unergonomic most weapons are for turians (and other 3-digited species). Take a look:

That's only one finger to hold the gun with, opposite to your thumb! The other is reserved for the trigger. That's not much grip, if you're holding it one-handed anyway. So not to be speciesist, but maybe it's easier to disarm a turian?

Also, this scene brings up something common to the whole series: A seeming lack of remembrance of how combat works in the ME verse. Now, I'm not saying this scene did it wrong, but it made me think about it and the fact that they did in many previous scenes in the trilogy. What do I mean? Well, in these sorts of tense situations, our minds tend to think of them how we would in real life. Very dangerous. And while they're still dangerous ingame, we have to remind ourselves that everyone there has shields, for one thing. Numerous superheroesque abilities, for another.

So even if that turian shot Ryder, it would be more analogous to a warning shot than anything else. And it might not be a smart thing to do, since it wouldn't put her down; she could Nova the whole room, say. Come to think of it, I suppose I may have just explained why no one did anything when she disarmed the turian, ha. Not sure if that was what Bioware had in mind, but it works well enough for me.

I made a gif of the disarm for everyone's reference:

It's not sped up. As you can see, she moves the muzzle away from her, not towards her chest, and I'd say she does it pretty fast.

Well... if that doesn't convince you that DA:I had at least okay expressions, I don't think anything will, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point

1. Pretty sure that turian's a guy She seems to be staring at Sloane, which may or may not be Bioware's final intention for the scene. Her facial expression during the disarm was certainly very unusual, but my impression was that it's meant to say:

"Nope, not gonna happen"

"No one points a gun at Ryder"

She did sort of have her mouth hang open for a while awkwardly before that look and then the grin, but as someone pointed out, people do actually do stuff like that in real life. Like when gaming So I don't know, I feel like it's just me, but I kind of liked that facial expression.

2. You raise a very interesting point, and it's what I thought about after the Explorers Wanted scripts were released (which even name-dropped Sloane). I was, and now am with confirmation, surprised at this course of narrative action in some ways. You just get there and there are already hundreds, possibly thousands of raider thugs? Even after the Hyperion's disaster? Holy cynicism, Batman! Now, we all knew the infighting stories were inevitable (in no small part due to wanting more diverse enemy factions including Milky Wayers), but to be perfectly honest I didn't expect it to be this soon, and this serious.

While infighting itself certainly isn't very surprising, I did expect ME:A to have a more hopeful, cheery, and optimistic feel after ME3's doom and gloom, and that the infighting would come later, especially since it would fit better after we have a homeworld established, because before that, everyone should really be on the same team, especially with the Kett out there. I thought their threat would be ME:A's primary antagonistic force by far, like the Reapers were in ME3, then we'd have warring merc bands later. Oh well, we'll just have to see how it plays out.

But one thing that does irk me a little is that the Initiative apparently wasn't very specific in its selection of candidates. You'd think they'd be very interested in psych profiles to ensure the expedition would be filled with team-players rather than "hot-heads", amoral mercs, or downright sadists. But apparently they not only selected Sloane (great call, guys), but also enough other undesirables to fill the ranks of multiple large "warring outlaw factions" without potential attrition halting the conflict before it starts. That just seems... silly to me. I get it's so they can tell the stories they want, but like I said above, they could have waited 'til the next game for that. This also makes me wonder if there is some sort of timeskip at the beginning of the game when these outposts and factions are formed.


I couldn't disagree more They've improved both Scott and Sara since we first saw them, and I much prefer Sara's ingame appearance to ME3's Jane Shepard. Like, way more (but her artwork is awesome). I mean, Sara's not the best looking character I've seen (that's the beauty of customization, literally), but definitely solid. Really hope we can use her as a base and use her hair in case I don't like any other styles as much.

And it's always interesting seeing the reaction to things and how different those reactions are depending on the player. A lot of people adore Sara's appearance, and some seem to have an unhealthy dislike of it (which is a strange way to direct your energy considering you can just customize your character if you don't like it) I've seen multiple people call out her nose in particular, but I don't understand why. Apparently it's "bulbous". Um, what? It looks pretty normal to me... If anything it's her lips that are big.
 

Helmets aren't a limiting factor for long hair - at least not any more than short hair. Clipping and lack of animation are. Speaking of which, is it just me, or does Ryder get a magical buzz-cut when her helmet is on? If so, I'm definitely using the Pathfinder helmet instead. Hate it when my character's appearance changes depending on outfits.

Do you really think Montreal doesn't have a bigger team for this project? Come on.

Funny, my first thought while watching that trailer was "Halo: Reach" I mean, look at this and tell me it doesn't look like the intro to Reach.


I didn't see any animation during movement in cutscenes, only while jogging, but yes, that is certainly an improvement for Bioware, so in the immortal words of Commander Shepard:

I'll take it!

1. Another thing people have hugely disparate opinions about. I understand it for a character's looks, since that's basically subjectivity defined, but it's more surprising when you have some people praise a game for its facial expressions and another group think it was terrible and a downgrade from before I thought DA:I's were quite good overall, even with the occasional wacky expression as you say.

2. I couldn't agree more about how annoying it is that the good hairstyles (and sometimes other features) seem to be relegated to default appearances and NPCs Here's hoping and somewhat expecting that just like DA:I (for defaults, not NPCs), this won't be the case in ME:A.

3. I'm so relieved (and very surprised) that the stupid spine-breaking hip-sway is gone!

Although I was never as annoyed at "manspreading" as others, in Inquisition at least, because you always wore pants. If people are wearing pants, it frankly makes no difference whether it's a man or woman sitting like that, and should be viewed the same way. In addition, it depends on the context as well as exactly how spread apart the legs are as whether it's dumb or not, in my opinion. For instance, having the legs extremely far apart looks stupid to me for either gender, but I don't want my character's legs to have to be locked together either. Relaxing on a bench talking to Josephine, leaning on your legs with your forearms looks fine to me, but sitting on the throne judging someone... not so much. Hopefully that makes sense.

On a similar note, I hope in ME:A we don't miss out on a nice leather jacket in favour of some lame dress

What bothers me the most about her is the hairline. It is just too low, she has no forehead! A bit worried other hairstyles will be like that

Depends on what you don't like or would like different. For example I'm not a big fan of Scott's and Sarah's body models, yet I can't customize that. Also some people aren't a fan of their voices, but you can't customize that. And even with what you can customize, there is a chance none of the other options are any better. 

This is really interesting, thank you for posting it. I watched the trailer twice, but did not really pay attention to her facial expressions. Now I am intrigued, as unlike our protagonist in the trilogy (whose expression was pretty much wooden all the time), Ryder is actually able to express emotions. Her expression changes from one of subtle fear when she goes for the gun to one of regret when she has it.

It is not at all perfect - mainly because it looks like they have not done any upper face animations (yet ?) -  but I think this is quite well done already and the emotions displayed are consistent with what one might conceivably feel in a situation like this. If they keep at it and polish it some more, this game might be a big step up in that regard.      

Yeah, that's something I've wondered about since ME1. Riffles are okay, since it's a two-hand grip and with shouldering they can achieve the required stability to be accurate, but pistols with a one-handed grip? I watched Saren assassinate Nilhus, and to this day I still can't understand how they can use guns like this... Same for Salarian, Quarians, Volus, Krogan, Vorcha and Geth. You'd think with a majority of the species being three-fingered, they'd come up with weapons that are more ergonomic for them...


To be fair, we don't know how far along in the game these events take place. Besides there are 20 000 individuals per Ark, and my conservative estimation for the Nexus is 60 000. Conflicts are bound to happen sooner rather than later, even if it all was one species only (well, maybe not Elcor, they don't strike me as the war-mongery type), and even if you carefully screen them beforehand. The Ryders can't be the only family along. You can't tell parents who've been accepted aboard to leave some of their kids behind because they don't have the best profile. Same for spouses.
People have different interests that drive them, and when in crisis, they are as likely to unite as to divide. Besides, hot heads have their advantages. They are more likely go out there, and Ryder herself can be played as one, apparently. For me, it is too soon to qualify Sloan as amoral or sadistic. Allow me to offer another perspective. I think she was in conflict with her hierarchy about something and decided that in this brave new world, she didn't need to take this shit. Other people agreed and followed her. She's obviously the law in that settlement. In her place, how would you react if some little upstart came up and rudely demanded things in a way that clearly undermined your authority in front of your underlings? Personally I'd mess Ryder a bit and fling her out empty-handed (killing her would draw attention from the higher-ups in the Nexus, and could get really troublesome fast). I think Sloane wanted to scare her, to teach her politeness. Didn't quite work out though.

Well, matter of tastes. Personally, I like the more colorful, cartoonish, as some say, general design. There are enough edgy, ultra-realistic games out there, but I understand that some people might feel put off. My only gripe with Sara's girl-next-door look is that she looks way too young for my tastes. Although I suppose it's not unusual to still have babyfat in the early twenties. She does have lucious lips, but again, too young... I'm gonna customize the babyfat out of her!


I think it's because they wear a hood under the helmet. Makes sense, you can't pull your hair out of your face when you wear the helmet:


Couldn't agree more, or at least an outfit that doesn't look as slutty, or I want something equally slutty for Scott

Well, it's the future... if you had the tech, wouldn't you make body armor as light and flexible as possible? Look at the 40k Eldar/Dark Eldar: Most advanced technology in the universe - lightest armor in the universe. That's not the same as skimpy Fantasy armor, of course... although, that could always be magic or whatever.

Never mind...

Oh I agree it's simpler to let it slide, they needed weapons that could be usable by every species, especially humans. And as I said, I'm not too hung up on realism. I just watched the vid frame by frame, I noticed there's some sort of nook where the Turian can slip the tip of his third finger. Don't know if it's supposed to be for stability, or if it's his trigger.

Yeah, they created the outlaws and criminal factions just as a fanservice for Aria's lovers. That seems reasonable.

Also, the Hyperion arrived in the cluster later then the Nexus. Probably months, possibly year/s. There's enough time for problems to rise, expecially considering the problems in Andromeda.

Yea, it's a fine line between our brains filling in what isn't there and our brains recoiling from something that shouldn't be there.

...like this sh*t eating grin, OH GAWD IT'S SO UGLY!

True, still, I didn't notice it that much in LA Noir... maybe because the rest of the graphics where really subpar.

Facial animation in Bioware games has always been a bit off. I didn't see anything in the video that was any worse than any other Bioware game.

Also, people on this forum drastically overuse the word "concern".

There actually was cringe-worthy facial animations in TW3. Quite a lot of them, even:



However, TW3 had very intelligent scenography and montage, that allowed them to hide how poor/inadequate facial animation actually was. Annnd in TW3, all characters are set. They don't have the limitation of having some given facial animation fit a non-default character as is the case in BW games.