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Post by SpiritVanguard on Feb 27, 2017 3:28:40 GMT
** For the record, I also recently killed Petrovsky for the first time (again, mostly Paragon Shepard). The same reasons stand: he took people and turned them into monsters. That's the Cerberus way and my Shepard has no used for them. I realize that losing those two meant losing about 50 war assets but it's not my first time through and I have more than made up for that loss. It's possible to not lose the War Asset points from Petrovsky when he dies if you helped Aria's Tech hack all the terminals. You'll gain information from her instead as an Alliance Asset for the First Fleet, worth the same amount (30). As far as I can tell, you only get one or the other, not both.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 27, 2017 3:46:59 GMT
It's possible to not lose the War Asset points from Petrovsky when he dies if you helped Aria's Tech hack all the terminals. You'll gain information from her instead as an Alliance Asset for the First Fleet, worth the same amount (30). As far as I can tell, you only get one or the other, not both. Good find. I will update the war assets thread
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 27, 2017 5:10:22 GMT
** For the record, I also recently killed Petrovsky for the first time (again, mostly Paragon Shepard). The same reasons stand: he took people and turned them into monsters. That's the Cerberus way and my Shepard has no used for them. I realize that losing those two meant losing about 50 war assets but it's not my first time through and I have more than made up for that loss. It's possible to not lose the War Asset points from Petrovsky when he dies if you helped Aria's Tech hack all the terminals. You'll gain information from her instead as an Alliance Asset for the First Fleet, worth the same amount (30). As far as I can tell, you only get one or the other, not both. I did get that but didn't realize it was a war asset. But what replaces my lost Gavin Archer? Because I'm in the middle of ME2 now and after finishing Overlord earlier I'm pretty confident Gavin Archer won't survive ME3.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Feb 27, 2017 6:25:12 GMT
Good find. I will update the war assets thread Thank you. I have been immortalized. I did get that but didn't realize it was a war asset. But what replaces my lost Gavin Archer? Because I'm in the middle of ME2 now and after finishing Overlord earlier I'm pretty confident Gavin Archer won't survive ME3. I think it can be missed because it doesn't appear under Alien on the War Terminal, instead under the Alliance. It's also possible to fail getting the asset if the requirement isn't met even with Petrovsky dead. (Or at least I remember having to backtrack to a save a few times because I missed it.) I don't know if there is an alternate asset for Gavin Archer, there might not be one. I usually keep him alive.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 27, 2017 23:32:02 GMT
I did get that but didn't realize it was a war asset. But what replaces my lost Gavin Archer? Because I'm in the middle of ME2 now and after finishing Overlord earlier I'm pretty confident Gavin Archer won't survive ME3. I think it can be missed because it doesn't appear under Alien on the War Terminal, instead under the Alliance. It's also possible to fail getting the asset if the requirement isn't met even with Petrovsky dead. (Or at least I remember having to backtrack to a save a few times because I missed it.) I don't know if there is an alternate asset for Gavin Archer, there might not be one. I usually keep him alive. I did keep him alive in the past but the more I watch him...he talks about "please let me take care of him" but as soon as you say you're taking him away he says "he's too valuable!" Dude doesn't care about his brother at all and will, ultimately, allow him to die. I have no use for people like that.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Feb 28, 2017 10:10:24 GMT
I did keep him alive in the past but the more I watch him...he talks about "please let me take care of him" but as soon as you say you're taking him away he says "he's too valuable!" Dude doesn't care about his brother at all and will, ultimately, allow him to die. I have no use for people like that. I can understand that, it's not a deal-breaker for me. What he did was despicable, but him being with the runaway scientists and torturing himself with remorse is enough for me to trust him. If he wants some semblance of redemption he can have it while helping to save the galaxy and boosting my numbers even if it's a small amount. I don't have to like or forgive him. It is difficult to get around the meta of his death though. Just because I don't want to inform him of David doesn't mean I want him to go kill himself. :poker:
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 28, 2017 18:24:54 GMT
I did keep him alive in the past but the more I watch him...he talks about "please let me take care of him" but as soon as you say you're taking him away he says "he's too valuable!" Dude doesn't care about his brother at all and will, ultimately, allow him to die. I have no use for people like that. I can understand that, it's not a deal-breaker for me. What he did was despicable, but him being with the runaway scientists and torturing himself with remorse is enough for me to trust him. If he wants some semblance of redemption he can have it while helping to save the galaxy and boosting my numbers even if it's a small amount. I don't have to like or forgive him. It is difficult to get around the meta of his death though. Just because I don't want to inform him of David doesn't mean I want him to go kill himself. :poker: Sure, but I found out what would happen because of roleplaying. I decided to withhold the information because my Shepard thought Gavin didn't deserve to know. I had no idea of the outcome. The RP Shepard has no idea of outcomes and follows his own ideas of right and wrong. Hence, I'd probably continue to deny him the information.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 1, 2017 22:37:25 GMT
Sure, but I found out what would happen because of roleplaying. I decided to withhold the information because my Shepard thought Gavin didn't deserve to know. I had no idea of the outcome. The RP Shepard has no idea of outcomes and follows his own ideas of right and wrong. Hence, I'd probably continue to deny him the information. Yeah, I was speaking more from a gaming standpoint since you said you didn't have need for him and it didn't sound like rp. I discovered his suicide the same way and thought "Damn, so I can't tell him to F off without killing him?" I suppose I like the ambiguity of it but at the same time it feels strange. That's why I said the meta about his death is troubling. :sure: Whether or not my Shepards take pity on him will decided his fate, but most of my Shepards have pity to spare.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 1, 2017 22:56:10 GMT
Sure, but I found out what would happen because of roleplaying. I decided to withhold the information because my Shepard thought Gavin didn't deserve to know. I had no idea of the outcome. The RP Shepard has no idea of outcomes and follows his own ideas of right and wrong. Hence, I'd probably continue to deny him the information. Yeah, I was speaking more from a gaming standpoint since you said you didn't have need for him and it didn't sound like rp. I discovered his suicide the same way and thought "Damn, so I can't tell him to F off without killing him?" I suppose I like the ambiguity of it but at the same time it feels strange. That's why I said the meta about his death is troubling. :sure: Whether or not my Shepards take pity on him will decided his fate, but most of my Shepards have pity to spare. I guess it's a mix. If I were the "take pity" guy, I'd have accepted that Gavin truly was sorry and wanted to care for him. That would have left David in his care and led to David's death. I feel like the distrust of Archer, warranted if I choose to take him, proves Gavin gave up having any right to know. I'd only want to tell him about David if I had some option to be make it clear that he doesn't deserve to know but I'm telling him anyway - and that I know he only ever saw David as a means to an end. Since I can't, denying him is what I can do. Even my Renegons (Paragades? never sure which is which) find him to be despicable. But, yeah, I can understand feeling empathy for him. I've just gotten less empathetic the more I've played. Go figure.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 1, 2017 23:29:47 GMT
I've never before noticed Liara had a fish tank in her apartment on Illium. Do you think she already knew Shepard had one on the SR2?
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 2, 2017 1:39:23 GMT
LotSB spy videos: David Anderson is shown meeting with someone in a Cerberus uniform. Seems very odd. Person doesn't look like Sheploo or my custom Shepard so that means he has other Cerberus contacts.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 2, 2017 2:09:21 GMT
Liara/Shepard meetup on the Normandy in ME2: If I choose Renegade options (bottom right, so I'm assuming it's Renegade), Shepard expresses being tired of working with Cerberus. It seems to me that Shepard has no interest in staying with Cerberus so the eventual return to the Alliance makes sense.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 2, 2017 2:46:21 GMT
I guess it's a mix. If I were the "take pity" guy, I'd have accepted that Gavin truly was sorry and wanted to care for him. That would have left David in his care and led to David's death. I feel like the distrust of Archer, warranted if I choose to take him, proves Gavin gave up having any right to know. I'd only want to tell him about David if I had some option to be make it clear that he doesn't deserve to know but I'm telling him anyway - and that I know he only ever saw David as a means to an end. Since I can't, denying him is what I can do. Even my Renegons (Paragades? never sure which is which) find him to be despicable. But, yeah, I can understand feeling empathy for him. I've just gotten less empathetic the more I've played. Go figure. :heh: Well, I don't think Gavin is particularly pitiable or trustworthy in 2, but I feel a difference in 3. Telling him about David isn't the same as handing him over for more torture.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 2, 2017 3:34:30 GMT
I guess it's a mix. If I were the "take pity" guy, I'd have accepted that Gavin truly was sorry and wanted to care for him. That would have left David in his care and led to David's death. I feel like the distrust of Archer, warranted if I choose to take him, proves Gavin gave up having any right to know. I'd only want to tell him about David if I had some option to be make it clear that he doesn't deserve to know but I'm telling him anyway - and that I know he only ever saw David as a means to an end. Since I can't, denying him is what I can do. Even my Renegons (Paragades? never sure which is which) find him to be despicable. But, yeah, I can understand feeling empathy for him. I've just gotten less empathetic the more I've played. Go figure. :heh: Well, I don't think Gavin is particularly pitiable or trustworthy in 2, but I feel a difference in 3. Telling him about David isn't the same as handing him over for more torture. I guess it's a form of petty revenge that turns out to be a bigger revenge than expected.
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Post by General Aetius on Mar 6, 2017 15:24:21 GMT
The "big stupid jellyfish" line originated in ME1. It's the first renegade option when you talk to the C-sec officer haranguing the hanar preacher on the Presidium.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 15:28:34 GMT
LotSB spy videos: David Anderson is shown meeting with someone in a Cerberus uniform. Seems very odd. Person doesn't look like Sheploo or my custom Shepard so that means he has other Cerberus contacts. I always wondered if it meant that Anderson also played a role in getting Shepard revived by Cerberus... or it can imply that Anderson has a mole on Shepard's ship that is feeding information to the Alliance about his/her activities. Just as Kelly is feeding information to Cerberus behind Shepard's back about Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 15:31:57 GMT
:heh: Well, I don't think Gavin is particularly pitiable or trustworthy in 2, but I feel a difference in 3. Telling him about David isn't the same as handing him over for more torture. I guess it's a form of petty revenge that turns out to be a bigger revenge than expected. If you're playing a non-imported file, Shepard has no option to cause Archer to kill himself... and the way he explains Project Overlord is quite a bit different.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 7, 2017 0:18:45 GMT
I guess it's a form of petty revenge that turns out to be a bigger revenge than expected. If you're playing a non-imported file, Shepard has no option to cause Archer to kill himself... and the way he explains Project Overlord is quite a bit different. How does he explain it? I'm curious because I'm sure he makes it sound better than it is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 0:35:56 GMT
If you're playing a non-imported file, Shepard has no option to cause Archer to kill himself... and the way he explains Project Overlord is quite a bit different. How does he explain it? I'm curious because I'm sure he makes it sound better than it is. I'll have to see if I can quickly replay that part again (depends on where I saved). I just remember thinking at the time that it just didn't sound quite as bad (for Archer's part in it) as when Shepard does Overlord in ME2. Now, of course, it's likely to be Archer whitewashing events (and passing off blame to TIM) a bit... but without doing Overlord, Shepard wouldn't know that. ETA dmc1001: Got it:
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Post by melbella on Mar 7, 2017 1:38:36 GMT
^^ I dunno....that makes it sound pretty bad, and he didn't deny David wasn't a volunteer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 1:46:06 GMT
^^ I dunno....that makes it sound pretty bad, and he didn't deny David wasn't a volunteer. No, he doesn't really deny anything... but the overall idea of the experiment doesn't sound as bad as when you query him after seeing all the dead lab personnel (before you really know about David). He also makes it really sound like he didn't have any real choice - i.e. that the Illusive Man would have killed him if he didn't agree to the experiment. Also, doing the DLC leads one to think that, if left in Cerberus' hands at all, David might continue to just be tortured unendingly. In this scenario, the whole base is nuked, so David's pain at least doesn't go on for the months between ME2 and ME3.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 7, 2017 6:24:28 GMT
^^ I dunno....that makes it sound pretty bad, and he didn't deny David wasn't a volunteer. Exactly my thought. Like I say, dude deserves to be driven to suicide since you can't just outright shoot him in the face.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 6:49:33 GMT
^^ I dunno....that makes it sound pretty bad, and he didn't deny David wasn't a volunteer. Exactly my thought. Like I say, dude deserves to be driven to suicide since you can't just outright shoot him in the face. I'm not saying it sounds "good"... What I originally said was that it sounded quite a bit different... and it does. During the Rannoch arc in ME3, Shepard is actually tapped directly into the geth network... but he's not tortured to accomplish that connection... and Archer does not indicate that David was tortured. That image of David being tortured to establish the connection comes from our having done Overlord. Non-import Shepard also has no frame of reference for how David managed to kill several lab personnel. The impression left by Archer is that David himself became so insane that the facility had to be nuked to stop him from killing more people. Also, Archer stresses that he himself had no real choice but to obey TIM. It was do the job or die. Archer does also express some guilt and regret... but not enough, obviously, that he indicates any desire to commit suicide. The imported scenario is that Archer needs to know that his brother is OK or else he commits suicide if Shepard just doesn't reassure him. The irony with the non-import scenario is that Archer knows he caused his brother's death and yet does not feel enough remorse to commit suicide. I just don't think that Shepard not reassuring Archer should have led to his committing suicide ever. Shepard should have been able to withhold that information without that sort of consequence.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 7, 2017 7:12:18 GMT
I just don't think that Shepard not reassuring Archer should have led to his committing suicide ever. Shepard should have been able to withhold that information without that sort of consequence. Or maybe at least an interrupt to stop him if we want to.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 9, 2017 3:59:58 GMT
i need a follow up on this, within Codex supposedly while i was reading TvTropes, there was an asari religion called Siari. Its doctrines is how all species are interconnected and all individuals are connected. Well if that is the case, why didn't bioware follow that up.
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