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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:03:51 GMT
Again: Two options. Either they didn't know about it or they did know about it and they didn't care. Or I suppose they knew, they cared, but did not have the ability to attack said facility because they feared being revealed or just didn't have the capabilities. These are the three options. Since we know the ark project survived to make it to the Andromeda Galaxy it has to be one of those three. And all this conversation, to me, makes a whole lot less sense then the conversation on whether or not the arks had the technical know how. I'll go with Option D: Bioware messed up and are trying to get out of that regardless or lore or logic integrity. BioWare didn't mess up, you are ascribing technical and resource capabilities the Reapers just did not have at the time. And then motives to them that we know they also did not have or at the least were fallible that they did not notice those races slipping through the mouse trap to begin with.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:04:09 GMT
Why would they let anyone escape their mouse trap? It's all designed to catch races reaching a certain technological point and then convert them into a new Reaper or destroy them. What's the logic behind letting a race (or races) they're trying to convert or destroy escape to another galaxy? No, things did not slip through. That was the whole point about the Reapers and what made them scary. The whole point of the Mass Effect trilogy was that the sentient technologically advanced races were doomed unless they could somehow defeat the Reapers. These guys just flying away willy-nilly takes away all the doom. It's silly. Races slipped through the Reaper mouse trap so often I half wonder if it was intentional. Which races met their technological criteria but escaped? The Leviathan race doesn't count, it's more technologically advanced than the Reapers thus it used that advantage to survive and hide.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 0:04:43 GMT
OH YAY, NEW STUFF. "Greetings, Recruits! I am Avina!" Avina.AVINA.PREODER CANCELLED.I've treasured an irrational hatred of Avina since ME1. Apparently I can get away from the damn Reapers, but there's no escape from Avina. Not even in a brand new galaxy. -raptor scream- Seriously, it actually looks pretty cool. And if I can ignore/flee from Avina, I'll forgive this evil. Lol, oh dear. I was like oh hey Avina! At least one familiar face is coming along with us. Although I think I'd have taken literally anyone else over her/it come to think of it....
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:05:21 GMT
I'll go with Option D: Bioware messed up and are trying to get out of that regardless or lore or logic integrity. BioWare didn't mess up, you are ascribing technical and resource capabilities the Reapers just did not have at the time. And then motives to them that we know they also did not have or at the least were fallible that they did not notice those races slipping through the mouse trap to begin with. So far it does appear as if Bioware has messed up. But I reserve judgment until we hear more of the story.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:07:03 GMT
BioWare didn't mess up, you are ascribing technical and resource capabilities the Reapers just did not have at the time. And then motives to them that we know they also did not have or at the least were fallible that they did not notice those races slipping through the mouse trap to begin with. So far it does appear as if Bioware has messed up. But I reserve judgment until we hear more of the story. Which is option number 4. Hell maybe we'll find out that the Reapers knew and cared about it and then tried to sabatage it somehow but then either failed or only succeeded a little bit. Oh wait I forgot that the Reapers are so infalible and powerful they possibly couldn't fail to wipe out the ark project like a boot crushes a bug, silly me.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:08:00 GMT
I'll go with Option D: Bioware messed up and are trying to get out of that regardless or lore or logic integrity. BioWare didn't mess up, you are ascribing technical and resource capabilities the Reapers just did not have at the time. And then motives to them that we know they also did not have or at the least were fallible that they did not notice those races slipping through the mouse trap to begin with. I just read an article where Mac Walters admitted that they missteped with the ME3 ending. I personally didn't mind it(actually predicted most of it since ME1), but it did put them in a place where they can't continue. I thought they could, but they think they couldn't and judging by MEA so far they are right in that. I certainly don't trust them with post-ME3 anymore.
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Post by helios969 on Dec 3, 2016 0:09:30 GMT
So am I reading ODSY as odyssey correctly - given we have Hyperion and Helios connections.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:10:07 GMT
So am I reading ODSY as odyssey correctly - given we have Hyperion and Helios connections. Yeah, the acronym is clearly meant to be read as Odyssey.
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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 0:11:57 GMT
What would Sovereign do again? Expose himself to a whole armada? And risk his main goal of opening a link to Dark Space by potentially getting itself destroyed? Same thing for the Collectors, which are much weaker than Sovereign. Since when you can't build the Nexus in the ME lore? There's nothing that says you can't. I think you're confusing our reality with a space fantasy's. The whole thing is a wild ride, there's no guarantee of success. The volunteers are aware of that. Anything could happen in Dark Space, they did their best to avoid most scenarios with the knowledge they knew. How on Satan's name it wouldn't be a triumph for humanity? Cerberus wasn't even indoctrinated by now. I see them actually wanting to fund this shizzle. I won't be able to sleep tonight after the triumph statement. Many drinks. I'm beginning to wonder if you even played Mass Effect or read the codex. All Sovereign had to do was kill the planners. Indoctrinated agents or geth would suffice. Or collectors or their agents. All of these were employed throughout all the Mass Effect story. The Normandy was an example of the most advanced technology available. It could not make a 600 year trip to another galaxy due to many technological limitations - most which have already been mentioned in this thread and are also in the Mass Effect codex. Read them. The Citadel and the Mass Relays were advanced technology we didn't understand and could not replicate. Even the Protheans had difficulty doing so, they only managed a small-scale prototype of a mass relay. The Reapers devised this technological mouse trap so that when civilizations started to approach understanding this technology - they would be wiped out roughly every 50000 years. Any attempt to escape this mouse trap - the Nexus - would have been stomped. Cerberus was anti-alien long before any indoctrination. That was their whole shtick... did you not pay attention to them being described in ME1? Or the conversation you could have with Miranda about them being anti-alien? They only approached cooperation with aliens when faced with the Reaper threat. Why would Sovereign worry about the project? it doesn't go against the Reaper plans, it doesn't compromise his presence and as far as he cares it wont be done by the time the Reaper purge begins, he could've sabotaged other projects, but he didn't, most likely to not alert the Milky way species to his or the Reapers' existence.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:13:27 GMT
BioWare didn't mess up, you are ascribing technical and resource capabilities the Reapers just did not have at the time. And then motives to them that we know they also did not have or at the least were fallible that they did not notice those races slipping through the mouse trap to begin with. I just read an article where Mac Walters admitted that they missteped with the ME3 ending. I personally didn't mind it(actually predicted most of it since ME1), but it did put them in a place where they can't continue. I thought they could, but they think they couldn't and judging by MEA so far they are right in that. I certainly don't trust them with post-ME3 anymore. Well I do considering we have come up with four very likely and very possible explanations why the Ark project is a thing, and survived to make it to the Andromeda Galaxy without the Reaper interference. Now they do not make it in one piece, but that's because of the situation they find on the ground and the fact the trip is really long. I mean again, this is we, a few fans, coming up with these scenarios of how they could make it without the Reapers interference based on a few trailers and the in universe lore. We do not have all the information, are not the developers, and obviously do not know.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:13:45 GMT
I'm beginning to wonder if you even played Mass Effect or read the codex. All Sovereign had to do was kill the planners. Indoctrinated agents or geth would suffice. Or collectors or their agents. All of these were employed throughout all the Mass Effect story. The Normandy was an example of the most advanced technology available. It could not make a 600 year trip to another galaxy due to many technological limitations - most which have already been mentioned in this thread and are also in the Mass Effect codex. Read them. The Citadel and the Mass Relays were advanced technology we didn't understand and could not replicate. Even the Protheans had difficulty doing so, they only managed a small-scale prototype of a mass relay. The Reapers devised this technological mouse trap so that when civilizations started to approach understanding this technology - they would be wiped out roughly every 50000 years. Any attempt to escape this mouse trap - the Nexus - would have been stomped. Cerberus was anti-alien long before any indoctrination. That was their whole shtick... did you not pay attention to them being described in ME1? Or the conversation you could have with Miranda about them being anti-alien? They only approached cooperation with aliens when faced with the Reaper threat. Why would Sovereign worry about the project? it doesn't go against the Reaper plans, it doesn't compromise his presence and as far as he cares it wont be done by the time the Reaper purge begins, he could've sabotaged other projects, but he didn't, most likely to not alert the Milky way species to his or the Reapers' existence. Already answered that, several times in this thread.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:15:06 GMT
I just read an article where Mac Walters admitted that they missteped with the ME3 ending. I personally didn't mind it(actually predicted most of it since ME1), but it did put them in a place where they can't continue. I thought they could, but they think they couldn't and judging by MEA so far they are right in that. I certainly don't trust them with post-ME3 anymore. Well I do considering we have come up with four very likely and very possible explanations why the Ark project is a thing, and survived to make it to the Andromeda Galaxy without the Reaper interference. Now they do not make it in one piece, but that's because of the situation they find on the ground and the fact the trip is really long. I mean again, this is we, a few fans, coming up with these scenarios of how they could make it without the Reapers interference based on a few trailers and the in universe lore. We do not have all the information, are not the developers, and obviously do not know. Oh, you misunderstood what I meant. I meant I don't trust them with games set in a post-ME3 Milky Way anymore.
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Post by saberchic on Dec 3, 2016 0:15:38 GMT
And yet things still slipped through despite the fact that reapers tried to cleanse everything. The reapers aren't perfect and omniscient. They also might not even care. I don't see why the reapers should've made stopping this a priority even if they knew about it. Why would they let anyone escape their mouse trap? It's all designed to catch races reaching a certain technological point and then convert them into a new Reaper or destroy them. What's the logic behind letting a race (or races) they're trying to convert or destroy escape to another galaxy? No, things did not slip through. That was the whole point about the Reapers and what made them scary. The whole point of the Mass Effect trilogy was that the sentient technologically advanced races were doomed unless they could somehow defeat the Reapers. These guys just flying away willy-nilly takes away all the doom. It's silly. I disagree. The prothean beacons slipped through as did the plans for the Crucible. The protheans themselves slipped through by hiding on Ilos even though they experienced technical difficulties that ended in their eventual extinction. And though we ourselves don't experience it in game, Liara said she has found evidence that a cycle was re-occurring where races were wiped out, and that there were other civilizations before the Protheans. If you choose the refusal ending, the next cycle finds your messages and defeats the reapers. So yes, things got through. The reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe. Besides, the reapers have limited resources and actions they could do. As others have already pointed out, the Collectors taking any action against us would have drawn our attention and ruined the surprise that the reapers wanted by coming. The ARK only holds 20,000 humans. There is no guarantee that they will even make it--or if they do, that they will survive. And with such a low number, I still don't think the reapers would even care. Their focus seems to be the Milky Way galaxy.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:17:35 GMT
Well I do considering we have come up with four very likely and very possible explanations why the Ark project is a thing, and survived to make it to the Andromeda Galaxy without the Reaper interference. Now they do not make it in one piece, but that's because of the situation they find on the ground and the fact the trip is really long. I mean again, this is we, a few fans, coming up with these scenarios of how they could make it without the Reapers interference based on a few trailers and the in universe lore. We do not have all the information, are not the developers, and obviously do not know. Oh, you misunderstood what I meant. I meant I don't trust them with games set in a post-ME3 Milky Way anymore. ...No I think that part has been made very clear. And again. I do.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:18:47 GMT
Oh, you misunderstood what I meant. I meant I don't trust them with games set in a post-ME3 Milky Way anymore. ...No I think that part has been made very clear. And again. I do. Well if you knew I meant that then why did your reply not address that at all?
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Post by helios969 on Dec 3, 2016 0:19:23 GMT
Prior to its discover in 2003, it was the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy that held the position of closest galaxy to our own. At 75,000 light years away. This dwarf galaxy, which consists of four globular clusters that measure some 10,000 light-years in diameter, was discovered in 1994. Prior to that, the Large Magellanic Cloud was thought to be our closest neighbor. www.universetoday.com/21914/the-closest-galaxy-to-the-milky-way/There is absolutely no rational reason to travel to Andromeda when there are closer galaxies. They probably used it because they liked the name and it's spiral resemblance to our Milky Way. Like i said, a satellite (that is about 10% of the Milky Way length). We could try asking on twitter(who has it) about this. Why Andromeda instead of some satellite galaxy. It's not really necessary since it's obvious Mass Effect: Andromeda is catchier than Mass Effect: Large Magellanic Cloud. Wouldn't you agree? But really at this point I've given up expecting anything like logic and suspension of disbelief being part of MEA.
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Post by saMoorai on Dec 3, 2016 0:20:28 GMT
Hope we get to keep the little apartment they give us. I like the idea of Ryder having both the Tempest and the Nexus as homes.
It sounds temporary, though. :/
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:20:59 GMT
Like i said, a satellite (that is about 10% of the Milky Way length). We could try asking on twitter(who has it) about this. Why Andromeda instead of some satellite galaxy. It's not really necessary since it's obvious Mass Effect: Andromeda is catchier than Mass Effect: Large Magellanic Cloud. Wouldn't you agree? But really at this point I've given up expecting anything like logic and suspension of disbelief being part of MEA. Mass Effect: Magellan is actually catchier than Mass Effect: Andromeda in my opinion. Fits the theme better too.
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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 0:23:56 GMT
Why would Sovereign worry about the project? it doesn't go against the Reaper plans, it doesn't compromise his presence and as far as he cares it wont be done by the time the Reaper purge begins, he could've sabotaged other projects, but he didn't, most likely to not alert the Milky way species to his or the Reapers' existence. Already answered that, several times in this thread. You didn't, we already know the Reapers' purpose in the Milky Way, and you may not like it, and it may go against your own head canon, but it's to find a way to stop synthetics rebelling on their organic creators in the Milky Way, they believe that eradicating the inhabitants of the galaxy and "Preserving" them is the simplest solution until another, better one comes around, but as far as they care, if the entire inhabitants of the galaxy left it for another, it would also be a solution for that problem, because it's not a problem anymore for the Milky Way, at least until another civilization reaches a space faring age.
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Post by areskeith on Dec 3, 2016 0:24:24 GMT
It's not really necessary since it's obvious Mass Effect: Andromeda is catchier than Mass Effect: Large Magellanic Cloud. Wouldn't you agree? But really at this point I've given up expecting anything like logic and suspension of disbelief being part of MEA. Mass Effect: Magellan is actually catchier than Mass Effect: Andromeda in my opinion. Fits the theme better too.How?
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:24:31 GMT
Why would they let anyone escape their mouse trap? It's all designed to catch races reaching a certain technological point and then convert them into a new Reaper or destroy them. What's the logic behind letting a race (or races) they're trying to convert or destroy escape to another galaxy? No, things did not slip through. That was the whole point about the Reapers and what made them scary. The whole point of the Mass Effect trilogy was that the sentient technologically advanced races were doomed unless they could somehow defeat the Reapers. These guys just flying away willy-nilly takes away all the doom. It's silly. I disagree. The prothean beacons slipped through as did the plans for the Crucible. The protheans themselves slipped through by hiding on Ilos even though they experienced technical difficulties that ended in their eventual extinction. And though we ourselves don't experience it in game, Liara said she has found evidence that a cycle was re-occurring where races were wiped out, and that there were other civilizations before the Protheans. If you choose the refusal ending, the next cycle finds your messages and defeats the reapers. So yes, things got through. The reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe. Besides, the reapers have limited resources and actions they could do. As others have already pointed out, the Collectors taking any action against us would have drawn our attention and ruined the surprise that the reapers wanted by coming. The ARK only holds 20,000 humans. There is no guarantee that they will even make it--or if they do, that they will survive. And with such a low number, I still don't think the reapers would even care. Their focus seems to be the Milky Way galaxy. No, the Protheans didn't escape. They died as a result of what the Reapers did to their civilization, only leaving scraps of their tech behind, their Collector shells and sabotage of the Keepers. That's not the same as letting thousands of targeted species escape the galaxy unopposed. Again, this whole "The Reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe" is nonsense from the Mass Effect Trilogy perspective. They were very thorough and the species were very doomed. If this were not the case, there would be no drama for that series.
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 0:25:28 GMT
Why would Sovereign worry about the project? it doesn't go against the Reaper plans, it doesn't compromise his presence and as far as he cares it wont be done by the time the Reaper purge begins, he could've sabotaged other projects, but he didn't, most likely to not alert the Milky way species to his or the Reapers' existence. This. Why didn't Sovereign also did stopped the Hanar from saving the Drell? After all another surviving advanced race would also mean more job harvesting the galactic civilizations. He simply wasn't at all interested in making any kind of appearance before being able to secure the Citadel. Already answered that, several times in this thread. Your answer seems to amount to you not liking the premise of traveling to Andromeda.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:25:46 GMT
I disagree. The prothean beacons slipped through as did the plans for the Crucible. The protheans themselves slipped through by hiding on Ilos even though they experienced technical difficulties that ended in their eventual extinction. And though we ourselves don't experience it in game, Liara said she has found evidence that a cycle was re-occurring where races were wiped out, and that there were other civilizations before the Protheans. If you choose the refusal ending, the next cycle finds your messages and defeats the reapers. So yes, things got through. The reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe. Besides, the reapers have limited resources and actions they could do. As others have already pointed out, the Collectors taking any action against us would have drawn our attention and ruined the surprise that the reapers wanted by coming. The ARK only holds 20,000 humans. There is no guarantee that they will even make it--or if they do, that they will survive. And with such a low number, I still don't think the reapers would even care. Their focus seems to be the Milky Way galaxy. No, the Protheans didn't escape. They died as a result of what the Reapers did to their civilization, only leaving scraps of their tech behind, their Collector shells and sabotage of the Keepers. That's not the same as letting thousands of targeted species escape the galaxy unopposed. Again, this whole "The Reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe" is nonsense from the Mass Effect Trilogy perspective. They were very thorough and the species were very doomed. If this were not the case, there would be no drama for that series. When you get down to it Keeper sabotage was another glaring example of Reaper falibility.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:26:09 GMT
Mass Effect: Magellan is actually catchier than Mass Effect: Andromeda in my opinion. Fits the theme better too.How? We are going to a new galaxy for the sake of exploration and resources, and long term will create a route between us and the Milky Way. That is pretty much identical to Magellan's mission.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:26:28 GMT
Already answered that, several times in this thread. You didn't, we already know the Reapers' purpose in the Milky Way, and you may not like it, and it may go against your own head canon, but it's to find a way to stop synthetics rebelling on their organic creators in the Milky Way, they believe that eradicating the inhabitants of the galaxy and "Preserving" them is the simplest solution until another, better one comes around, but as far as they care, if the entire inhabitants of the galaxy left it for another, it would also be a solution for that problem, because it's not a problem anymore for the Milky Way, at least until another civilization reaches a space faring age. No, it would not be a solution. It would leave open the possibility of an AI scenario they opposed occurring outside their control. They were all about control of the Milky Way inhabitants. That's not head canon that's the whole dramatic premise of the Mass Effect Trilogy.
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